berg1029 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 No, there is no conspiracy. The reason that they win all the time is because they have the best quarterback to ever play the game and are coached really well. There isn't a conspiracy and there doesn't need to be one in order for them to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, H2o said: Kraft has Goodell and the Refs in his back pocket. They play it out like ole Rog is against them, but I truly believe it is quite the opposite. Deflate Gate says no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Deflate Gate says no. Deflategate was window dressing...a make up call and damage control to appease the other owners from Goodell burning the Spygate evidence, which by many accounts was far more egregious (and more damaging to NE’s ‘legacy’) than deflating a few footballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Deflate Gate says no. I do believe it was all for show. The games missed didn't really effect the Pats season. Then they go on to win the SB. Look at Elliott and the Cowboys. Roger and Jerry are truly at odds and he misses 6 more costly games for the Cowboys. Roger and Bob will be headed to Disney together if the Pats win again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, H2o said: I do believe it was all for show. The games missed didn't really effect the Pats season. Then they go on to win the SB. Look at Elliott and the Cowboys. Roger and Jerry are truly at odds and he misses 6 more costly games for the Cowboys. Roger and Bob will be headed to Disney together if the Pats win again. That only happened because ATL had an epic collapse to hand them a Lombardi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Deflate Gate says no. It seems that Deflategate was more about the cover up than the crime. Had Brady just come clean, little or anything would have been done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, berg1029 said: No, there is no conspiracy. The reason that they win all the time is because they have the best quarterback to ever play the game and are coached really well. There isn't a conspiracy and there doesn't need to be one in order for them to win. Bull**** Have you ever seen any team in Pro sports be able to just throw anyone in their lineup and still come out with the same results every year? Even when Brady is not in the lineup they aren't missing a beat. They go through many stretches where they don't look good, wasn't their defence one of the worst in the league statistically to start the year? Then here they are, rolling their way into the championship again. Almost every team that plays them just happens to forget to keep playing late in a game allowing them to come back and win it? Every play that is challenged in a game goes their way when they need it to. You see calls that get reviewed go their way and its questioned how they could have made that call, then the next week that same thing happens in another game and its called the way it should have been in the Pats game? Has one of their highly successful Co-Ordinators/Coaches went on to do well anywhere else? How many of their players ever leave and continue to play well elsewhere (outside of Garopollo who theres rumors they didn't want to get rid of) No team can be this dominant just because of a QB and a HC........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't think the league rigs it But I don't think the officiating is fair and unbiased either. 1) Part of it is the winner tends to get the calls, and the Pats have been winners for a long time 2) Part of it is that NFL referees are part-time and are not paid as much as referees in other professional sports - so they tend to be more fans - see point 1 3) AFAIK while referees can't gamble and can't openly play fantasy football, with the internet it would not be hard to do anonymously, so that might influence Add into the above, that AFAIK the checks and balances and consequences for referees are minimal and totally disengaged from the game, and the system perpetuates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 25 minutes ago, H2o said: Kraft has Goodell and the Refs in his back pocket. They play it out like ole Rog is against them, but I truly believe it is quite the opposite. I said this before and people were ready to fit me with a tin foil hat It would not shock me to find out that Goodell and Kraft had an agreement worked out with "Deflategate" so that it took heat off Goodell who could say that he did something and it would make it look like they weren't working together. It also allows the Pats and their fans to play on the "Everyones against us" mentality 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said: I said this before and people were ready to fit me with a tin foil hat It would not shock me to find out that Goodell and Kraft had an agreement worked out with "Deflategate" so that it took heat off Goodell who could say that he did something and it would make it look like they weren't working together. It also allows the Pats and their fans to play on the "Everyones against us" mentality Kraft had to be talked out of suing the league over deflategate's outcome of Brady's 4 game suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: I have not seen any compelling evidence to suggest NFL games have been rigged. I do think this sort of thing is conceptually very possible, and you most certainly can control the outcome of games, with a fair degree of certainty, simply by controlling a few key calls at critical times in the game. Many big time sports leagues around the world have fallen victim to this and perhaps it is a matter of time before the NFL suffers a similar fiasco. The question I would have is where is the motive? Who is going to benefit from the game fixing? The owners are already billionaires. Usually the motive is bookies controlling the gambling and they control the game by giving a lot of money to the referee, who is willing to take the bribe b/c the money is much greater than he is making through legitimate means. Not sure that set of facts lines up with forces surrounding modern NFL play though. So you think that would stop them from wanting to make more money? How many times do you see someone already wealthy wrapped up in illegal activity or scams because they want more of it? Sometimes the more money you have, the greedier you become...... Just watch the games and theres plenty of compelling evidence to suggest not everything in the league is on the "Up and Up". It would not shock me in the least to one day here that the league was fixed. It seems to get worse every year. Yet I can't say watching Baseball that I feel the same, and I am not a fan of the red sox or yankees. But I don't feel the league is fixed In Hockey, I wouldn't be shocked to find out the "draft lottery" was rigged to make sure a few names are put in places to help the league and some of it franchises, but I can't say watching games that I feel the games are rigged. 5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Kraft had to be talked out of suing the league over deflategate's outcome of Brady's 4 game suspension. I'm sure that has to be true and not part of an act then, It wouldn't help make it look like they really were mad at each other by saying he was going to sue the league, then not go through with it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Here's my theory, if you will. There is no question that athletic performance improves over time. But when performance takes an uncanny leap, there is usually more to it. Are the Patriots the only team in NFL history with talent that is well coached? No. Then how is it their dominance seems neverending? Is every other team in the NFL less talented or too dumb to compete? How is it that the Patriots are able to come from behind at a rate unseen in the history of the NFL, often against league's best teams? When one team dominates a league as long as the Patriots have, with no equal in history, it's not paranoid to ask how they do it. I'll be willing to bet it's more than hard work and clean living. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Is it a conspiracy? No Is there NE favoritism? Yes Is it 100% based on revenue and tv ratings? Ding...Ding....Ding...Ding Dilly Dilly, you win! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: So you think that would stop them from wanting to make more money? How many times do you see someone already wealthy wrapped up in illegal activity or scams because they want more of it? Sometimes the more money you have, the greedier you become...... Just watch the games and theres plenty of compelling evidence to suggest not everything in the league is on the "Up and Up". It would not shock me in the least to one day here that the league was fixed. It seems to get worse every year. Yet I can't say watching Baseball that I feel the same, and I am not a fan of the red sox or yankees. But I don't feel the league is fixed In Hockey, I wouldn't be shocked to find out the "draft lottery" was rigged to make sure a few names are put in places to help the league and some of it franchises, but I can't say watching games that I feel the games are rigged. I'm sure that has to be true and not part of an act then, It wouldn't help make it look like they really were mad at each other by saying he was going to sue the league, then not go through with it...... Come on man! What size do you wear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Once again... A team is up on the Pats, late 2nd quarter. Moving the ball. Suddenly penalty, penalty, punt. Pats get the ball, pentalty, penalty, 1st and goal they score. How many of times have we all seen it. The league takes all momentum and drive from one team and gives it to the Pats. They then get on a roll and win. Sure they're good. Sure they got great coaches. Sure blah blah. How many games do they win when all the calls go against them? When was the last time even the majority of calls in a game went against them? Call it what you want, but the league has done more to help that team than any other team..ever. Period. I'll watch a This is Us marathon in 2 weeks before I watch them handed another win and glorified for cheating and bending every rule possible as the league glosses over the poor officiating. As you might imagine, I voted yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropyrules Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I voted no...they have a great coach (coaches) and a superb QB...however there is definitely a "confirmation bias" that occurs with the refs in Pats games...kind of taints their victories as they would probably win almost as many games without those questionable calls at critical times and the lack of holding calls on their O line..but its not a conscious effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Only a moron would think the league is fixed. Teams put in way too much time. Add that your questioning the integrity of about 220 refs to go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Conspiracy: no. Do great players get more calls in their favor bc of who they are (regardless of the sport): yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 No such thing as coincidence and in a game of inches the NFL keeps giving the Patriots* a mile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 What good would it ever do to have the Pats win each and every year?.........I mean, the NFL sucks right now as it is, so having a Pats monopoly isn't helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: Bull**** Have you ever seen any team in Pro sports be able to just throw anyone in their lineup and still come out with the same results every year? Even when Brady is not in the lineup they aren't missing a beat. They go through many stretches where they don't look good, wasn't their defence one of the worst in the league statistically to start the year? Then here they are, rolling their way into the championship again. Almost every team that plays them just happens to forget to keep playing late in a game allowing them to come back and win it? Every play that is challenged in a game goes their way when they need it to. You see calls that get reviewed go their way and its questioned how they could have made that call, then the next week that same thing happens in another game and its called the way it should have been in the Pats game? Has one of their highly successful Co-Ordinators/Coaches went on to do well anywhere else? How many of their players ever leave and continue to play well elsewhere (outside of Garopollo who theres rumors they didn't want to get rid of) No team can be this dominant just because of a QB and a HC........... Wouldn’t it be interesting if Jimmy G signed back with the Pats as a free agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 This is the dumbest thing that people believe. There were some bad penalty calls, especially the PI... but even without that call, I still think the PATs score a TD on that drive. The Jags handed the game away because they were too scared to win it. It's like going against Tiger in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 One penalty against the Cheaters yesterday ...... does that help? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 brain challenged players are jettisoned in NE. they consistently make the fewest mistakes and don't beat themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Preferred outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 No. Best Quarterback ever, best Head Coach ever and constantly operating on the very edge of, if not beyond, the rules. That is why they win. Do refs tend to favour successful teams? Yep, it is a natural unconscious bias that happens in many sports and New England get their fair share of calls but it isn't some great conspiracy or a league wide agenda. The Seahawks and Packers have got a lot of favourable calls in big games in recent years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No. Best Quarterback ever, best Head Coach ever and constantly operating on the very edge of, if not beyond, the rules. That is why they win. Do refs tend to favour successful teams? Yep, it is a natural unconscious bias that happens in many sports and New England get their fair share of calls but it isn't some great conspiracy or a league wide agenda. The Seahawks and Packers have got a lot of favourable calls in big games in recent years too. We get they are good. But cheating to get there and having 3 Blind Refs makes it * worthy Edited January 22, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 the bad call that cost JAX the game was Myles Jack strip fumble recovery that was whistled dead. it should have been allowed to continue which likely would have resulted in a defensive jax TD. the PI call on Bouye was correct. he was hand checking, arm baring and body riding him out of bounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The Refs should never favor a team. That reeks of game fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 10 hours ago, GoBills808 said: It’s not a conspiracy in the sense that there’s a coordinated effort to tilt the field toward the Pats. It’s more like how top NBA athletes get calls that lower profile guys don’t, and are called for fouls at a much lower rate. The difference is that it’s their entire team getting the benefit of the doubt, and often in situations that swing the balance of the game in their favor. Agree 100%.....yesterdays game was called pretty much even as in the penalties that needed to be called were - face it - Billacheat DRILLS into his players heads to not get penalized. McCoach is trying to do the same and it is paying off......now if Hughes could understand that.....oh well I digress..... Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, papazoid said: brain challenged players are jettisoned in NE. How do you explain Gilmore? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: We get they are good. But cheating to get there and having 3 Blind Refs makes it * worthy They cheat. I don't deny they cheat. There is no conspiracy from the refs to help them though. 8 minutes ago, papazoid said: the bad call that cost JAX the game was Myles Jack strip fumble recovery that was whistled dead. it should have been allowed to continue which likely would have resulted in a defensive jax TD. the PI call on Bouye was correct. he was hand checking, arm baring and body riding him out of bounds. I don't think it was a fumble. I think he was down before the ball came loose. It is not a "catch" he was a runner.... so the ball "moving" is not relevant. The question is at the point he is down does he still "possess it" and it is pinned to his side to my eyes. But I agree they should not have whistled the play dead. The reason they did is the ref who whistled it was ruling down by contact (the right call in my mind) and it was the 2nd ref who came in and ruled fumble by which point the whistle had been blown. A mistake but an understandable one, though I am a proponent for let them play and work it out later. Bouye was definite PI. Not sure why he did it either... he was in a good position... he just needed to keep running his lane and keep his eyes on the ball. Cooks was squeezed against the boundary there was about a 10% chance he made that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They cheat. I don't deny they cheat. There is no conspiracy from the refs to help them though. I don't think it was a fumble. I think he was down before the ball came loose. It is not a "catch" he was a runner.... so the ball "moving" is not relevant. The question is at the point he is down does he still "possess it" and it is pinned to his side to my eyes. But I agree they should not have whistled the play dead. The reason they did is the ref who whistled it was ruling down by contact (the right call in my mind) and it was the 2nd ref who came in and ruled fumble by which point the whistle had been blown. A mistake but an understandable one, though I am a proponent for let them play and work it out later. Bouye was definite PI. Not sure why he did it either... he was in a good position... he just needed to keep running his lane and keep his eyes on the ball. Cooks was squeezed against the boundary there was about a 10% chance he made that play. I see that fumble sequence as there was a ball knocked loose, no one had possession (that's the key), by the time myles jack had gotten possession, he was not downed by contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, papazoid said: I see that fumble sequence as there was a ball knocked loose, no one had possession (that's the key), by the time myles jack had gotten possession, he was not downed by contact. I think Lewis was down still with possession. Jack definitely wasn't touched once he possessed it. But to me the play was rightly blown dead by the first ref because he thought Lewis was down my contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don’t think that it is a conspiracy for the Pats to win as much as it is the benefit of the doubt. I have an analogy that I think fits. LeBron gets calls that Omri Casspi doesn’t. He has been good for so long that when it is close it tends to go his way. That happens a lot with the Pats and hurts their opponents. It isn’t an outright conspiracy as much as “50/50” calls become “80/20” calls. Sometimes that has a big impact like it did before the half yesterday. It isn’t a part of some larger plan by the NFL to make good guys vs. bad guys like in the WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Jaguars 6-98 patriots 1-10 It's hard to win when you get penalized because you aren't the patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t think that it is a conspiracy for the Pats to win as much as it is the benefit of the doubt. I have an analogy that I think fits. LeBron gets calls that Omri Casspi doesn’t. He has been good for so long that when it is close it tends to go his way. That happens a lot with the Pats and hurts their opponents. It isn’t an outright conspiracy as much as “50/50” calls become “80/20” calls. Sometimes that has a big impact like it did before the half yesterday. It isn’t a part of some larger plan by the NFL to make good guys vs. bad guys like in the WWE. Exactly this Kirby. You articulated it better than I did, though I thought both calls before half were correct. Edited January 22, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris66 said: Only a moron would think the league is fixed. Teams put in way too much time. Add that your questioning the integrity of about 220 refs to go along with it. In 2 major sports, Soccer and Basketball it has been proven some officials were corrupt. I am saying no for a conspiracy, but questioning the officials is very fair especially when it has been proven in other sports that they purposely altered the game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I would not elevate it to the level of a conspiracy. But yes, there is a not a level playing field. The NFL becomes more like the Old WWF every day. It is a purposeful and obvious choice by the NFL management to favor NE in all decisions for monetary purposes. Brady is the NFL's greatest property and asset. Rules are made and decisions about interpreting those rules are made to protect their best assets. The question will be that when Brady is no longer there, will the Patriots still be favored. What surprises me is that the other NFL owners really feel their own best interests are being looked out for by this favoritism. Obviously they must feel that ultimately they too come out ahead financially as a result of that favoritism, or they would put a stop to it and look out for their own self interests. I do wonder how they are able to be sold on the fact that it is in their long term self interest to allow it to continue. I would love to be in the know of exactly what they tell them in order to convince those business people to allow it to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) This is what I saw yesterday: 1. Nearing the two-minute warning (27 minutes of action), the refs had called exactly 2 penalties. One for each team. The Jags were up 14-3, and driving yet again. 2. After completing another big throw on 3rd down, the refs called delay of game on Bortles. They did not blow the whistle before the play to kill it dead. Strange for a delay of game. 3. On the next play, the refs immediately threw a flag for holding. Jags got sacked anyway, but the penalty would have taken away anything they may have gotten. 4. Pats got the ball back with just around 2 minutes. Two straight penalties, totaling 47 yards to put them at the 13 yard line. Boom, game is 14-10 instead of 17-3. 5. No more penalties are called the entire 3rd quarter, and then the first 8 plus minutes of the 4th quarter. Jags still lead 20-17. 6. Suddenly, another iffy pass interference penalty puts the Pats into Jags territory. The defense holds and forces a punt, but the field has been flipped, and Brady has gotten all the assistance he needs. I watch tons of NFL games every season. Bad calls happen quite a bit. There are many times teams get screwed by the refs. But why does virtually EVERY Patriots game have huge momentum swinging calls/penalties at key points of the game? Why do teams always play totally clean for almost an entire game, but then somehow manage a backbreaking holding, PI, illegal contact, etc. penalty that either takes important points away from them, or gifts the Pats important points? Not to mention, the clearly BAD CALLS that go in favor of New England. Just this season, you have the Jenkins/Jets touchdown that was taken away, the Cooks touchdown against the Texans that shouldn't have stood, the James/Steelers touchdown that was taken away. Not to mention the Benjamin touchdown taken away from us - once again, just before halftime (which is absolutely a KEY POINT in every football game). So just off the top of my head, I can name 4 regular season games THIS SEASON where the Pats were assisted heavily by the refs. Tony Romo's shocked and excited tone did not represent the majority of NFL fans yesterday. I think most of us have seen this story before, and saw the predictable script playing out just like it always does. When the Jags got up 14-3, I told my wife it wouldn't be long before the refs start getting involved. At halftime (after my prediction played out perfectly), I told her that the game would remain close in the second half and Brady would lead a winning touchdown drive late in the 4th quarter. Not sure why I even stuck around to watch it happen. Edited January 22, 2018 by mjt328 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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