Brian Daboll hired as new OC

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, familykwi said:

I think the idea of intellectual property rights as it relates to the utilization of plays in sports would be fascinating.  Everyone knows coaches steal from each other, but if they could not by law...

 

That's a simulation I'd love to see played out.

 

...sure would be......not a lawyer, but we have operated the company under the premise that if an employee "creates" something on company property (ie. computer network) while in our employ, company owns the "rights" to it.......copyright then becomes another chapter if that employee moved to copyright what was created........muddy the water further with a Confidentiality Agreement that an exiting coach's "lips are sealed"......as far as a playbook, what if an incoming coach brings HIS playbook that HE created?.....company cannot claim a right to it, but may be able to for any additions to the playbook....adding more mud to clarity.........then you wonder why lawyers get rich.......

Edited January 16, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[fansince88]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Over the course of the season probably 100+ people in the organization were issued copies of the offensive playbook plus all the digital copy which is property of the team.  But if somehow they all got thrown out or deleted at locker clean out the Pats probably still had a few copies.

 

In short........they could have very easily just kept the offense.   Coaches decision.

 

Roman had some innovative run game design but I'd guess 95%+ of the plays in the book would be found in any combination of other NFL playbooks.     

Pats had copies of ours too...

[SWATeam]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Starting over on offense was a big mistake by McD IMO.

I agree.

 

It's nice that he didn't die on that hill, and pulled the plug so quickly.

 

Without reading the whole thread, what's your take on this hire?  Know much about the guy?  Based on my reading, this is the kind of guy good teams hire.  Someone in demand and with options.  Too many times in the past (Pre-Pegula) we've been left trying to rationalize uninspiring hires.  We simply weren't in the big leagues.  Now it seems we are willing to spend money with the best of them, in all aspects of operations.  It's only a matter of time before we get it right.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SWATeam

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Culley was a good hire, but the Bills screwed it up by putting him at QB coach. Although, I'd I think they took him out of position just to get him on the staff. like to see him kept as long as he moves back to WRs and we bring in a real QB coach that is in sync with Daboll.

 

WRT OL/Casillo... ugh, if we retain him it will be grounds to start questioning McD's thinking. I can see it happening, and I hate the idea.

I expect some reshuffling. actually i nearly demand it.

who is the LBs Coach btw?  
I bet they want to develop guys to Coach the mantra of the Process. I think Dabol fits.
should we expect more ties to the successful  College ranks up and comers? As was Dabol?

  Bills are up and running by now.
Looking forward to the adjustments during the Offseason. Coaching and players alike .
 

[ndirish1978]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I expect some reshuffling. actually i nearly demand it.

who is the LBs Coach btw?  
I bet they want to develop guys to Coach the mantra of the Process. I think Dabol fits.
should we expect more ties to the successful  College ranks up and comers? As was Dabol?

  Bills are up and running by now.
Looking forward to the adjustments during the Offseason. Coaching and players alike .
 

 

I think this was more a product of a prior relationship and less a product of "let's look for college coaches"

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

I think this was more a product of a prior relationship and less a product of "let's look for college coaches"

Oh No question. I think this was in the works when McD was realizing he might become a HC.
But Dabol just experienced a consistently successful operation in the College ranks. Perhaps he has some guys he thinks have what it takes since scheming against them.
Just a thought .
 

[Bills Pimpin']

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They aren't going with Peterman next year. 

Certainly not on purpose but he will be on the roster. He may surprise everyone and play fantastic. 

[3rdand12]

Just now, Bills Pimpin' said:

Certainly not on purpose but he will be on the roster. He may surprise everyone and play fantastic. 

That is certainly in the realm of possibility.

 I agree 100%

[ExWNYer]

7 hours ago, BillsMafia13 said:

yeah just that ExWNY ragging on people for giving an opinion.  I am nothing close to an expert in his history or what he is capable of.  But judging off his past experience in the NFL is kinda scares me.  His O's never made it out of the basement, no matter what happened.  His fault or not hes picking up a similar situation in Buffalo, what makes people so sure he will be our savior now? Seems everyone supporting is is basing it off other coaches word of mouth. Which doesnt mean much to me

 

I wasn't ragging on anyone. Maybe if you bothered reading the thread and got a little context, you'd understand the comments from me and others. I even stated to another poster that he/she was entitled to his/her opinion. Looks like you're new to the board and probably aren't familiar with everyone here or their posting histories and styles. There is one poster in particular who constantly brings the same, tired crusades to the board and who has been getting crushed in this thread by almost everyone. The point was not that Daboll might not be the right hire...he might not be. You and anyone else are certainly entitled to that opinion; however, nobody knows for sure whether he will or won't be any good.The point was that the people saying that he definitively WILL suck are being ridiculous and that's what I took exception to, not their opinions. That statement of fact is completely different than saying, "I don't think he will be any good because..." and then supporting their position. That's an opinion and totally acceptable. Daboll hasn't called a game for the Bills yet and we don't know what personnel he'll be working with in the fall. We'll have to wait and see. I hope that clarifies for you. Welcome to the board.

[Bills Pimpin']

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Agreed - as I said upthread, these guys are trying to build a PROGRAM, not just a roster.  Daboll comes from the two best programs in NFL and NCAA history, respectively.

 

Although I gotta disagree with you about Dennison, I do not think he managed the QB talent that he was given.  He installed his own offense which did not suit Tyrod's skillset and then spent the entire season advocating for the 5th round backup (who sucks).

He did install his own offense, I don't think he ever intended not to and I don't think he ever told the head coach that he was not going to. I believe McD interviewed him and believed him when he said Tyrod could work in his system. Obviously Tyrod couldn't work in his system but at that point there was nothing that could be done. The bed was made. I do think Dennison tried to change some of the offense to suit Tyrod but I think you are right, he's wasn't a good enough teacher to make it work. And on top of that Tyrod wasn't talented enough to be even serviceable in Dennison's offense.

 

But all of that being said, they scored enough points to win enough games to make the playoffs and that is what I meant by managing the talent of the QB. Maybe that is not the right way to say it, maybe I should say he did an admiral job managing the offense. 

 

For McD to realize his mistake and make the change to Daboll so quickly gives me even more hope that he may be a very good coach for the long term. Assuming of course eventually he makes a good decision on the leader of that side of the ball. Let's hope Daboll is that guy.

[Wayne Arnold]

My biggest concern about Daboll is red zone scoring efficiency. That's a good indication of an offensive coordinator's play-calling skills, and it's been lacking his entire career. Makes me nervous about him.

[3rdand12]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

My biggest concern about Daboll is red zone scoring efficiency. That's a good indication of an offensive coordinator's play-calling skills, and it's been lacking his entire career. Makes me nervous about him.

you sure about that?

 would help if you could put up some  context. While at Ala ? or when he was OC at Cleveland, or Miami. How was he at NE with the TEs in the redzone ?
: )

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

I agree.

 

It's nice that he didn't die on that hill, and pulled the plug so quickly.

 

Without reading the whole thread, what's your take on this hire?  Know much about the guy?  Based on my reading, this is the kind of guy good teams hire.  Someone in demand and with options.  Too many times in the past (Pre-Pegula) we've been left trying to rationalize uninspiring hires.  We simply weren't in the big leagues.  Now it seems we are willing to spend money with the best of them, in all aspects of operations.  It's only a matter of time before we get it right.

 

 

I like the hire.   He's not some great young genius coordinator prospect but he's young enough........and the system he's best versed in is flexible.   Buffalo native so he's likely going to have an extra incentive.  Should be able to design something that works.

 

Play calling is another matter.    We won't know until we see it and that will totally color our opinion of him.

 

My guess is they paid him VERY well........probably got lucky that he's a Buffalo native because IMO McD probably didn't endear himself to the general coaching community by firing a guy like Dennison after one year after putting Dennison in a very tough spot wrt personnel.   It was the right move but McD was at least as much at fault for it not working as Dennison.  

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Any guesses why the Bill's have not introduced Daboll yet ?

 

Other staff changes coming

 

Contractual reasons (buyout clause at ALA)

 

Interference from another organization (Pats)

 

 

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

you sure about that?

 would help if you could put up some  context. While at Ala ? or when he was OC at Cleveland, or Miami. How was he at NE with the TEs in the redzone ?
: )

 

Just his OC gigs (Daboll's seasons in bold)...

 

Browns - From 31st (2008) to 28th (2009) to 27th (2010) to 28th (2011)

 

Dolphins - From 14th (2010) to 24th (2011) to 11th (2012)

 

Chiefs - From 32nd (2011) to 32nd (2012) to 5th (2013 - Andy Reid and Alex Smith)

 

Alabama - From 25th (2016) to 46th (2017)

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I expect some reshuffling. actually i nearly demand it.

who is the LBs Coach btw?  
I bet they want to develop guys to Coach the mantra of the Process. I think Dabol fits.
should we expect more ties to the successful  College ranks up and comers? As was Dabol?

  Bills are up and running by now.
Looking forward to the adjustments during the Offseason. Coaching and players alike .
 

 

I dont mean to pick on you, you're just the last example I have to go off of, but...

 

What's up with everyone saying Daboll is a college coach? Just because his last job was 1 year at Bama?

 

The 17 years before that (and 99% of his career) were all in the NFL. And let's face it, Bama and Saban might as well be a pro team. The guy is not a college coach.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Just his OC gigs (Daboll's seasons in bold)...

 

Browns - From 31st (2008) to 28th (2009) to 27th (2010) to 28th (2011)

 

Dolphins - From 14th (2010) to 24th (2011) to 11th (2012)

 

Chiefs - From 32nd (2011) to 32nd (2012) to 5th (2013 - Andy Reid and Alex Smith)

 

Alabama - From 25th (2016) to 46th (2017)

 

Doomed

Edited January 17, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[Wayne Arnold]

List of NFL quarterbacks Daboll has worked with in his four seasons as NFL Offensive Coordinator:

• Brady Quinn
• Derek Anderson
• Jake Delhomme (35)
• Seneca Wallace
• Colt McCoy (rookie)
• Chad Henne
• Matt Moore
• JP Losman
• Matt Cassel
• Brady Quinn (again)

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont mean to pick on you, you're just the last example I have to go off of, but...

 

What's up with everyone saying Daboll is a college coach? Just because his last job was 1 year at Bama?

 

The 17 years before that (and 99% of his career) were all in the NFL. And let's face it, Bama and Saban might as well be a pro team. The guy is not a college coach.

 

 

 

Doomed

Thanks you for helping me clarify my minor point. He was hired by Saban. fair reasoning to think Daboll was worthwhile?
Studying his opponents from an NFL perspective might allow him to see who, in that conference or championship has the work ethic and talent to be developed to the NFL game.

 

   I am full aware i am reaching.

 But after his years Coaching and being Coached by NFL  Coaches as it were, he might recognize the type of fellows Sean and Brandon B need could be found apexing at the College ranks. A year exp under Saban has got to be worth something is suspect?

 

 stretch thinking lol

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

List of NFL quarterbacks Daboll has worked with in his four seasons as NFL Offensive Coordinator:

• Brady Quinn
• Derek Anderson
• Jake Delhomme (35)
• Seneca Wallace
• Colt McCoy (rookie)
• Chad Henne
• Matt Moore
• JP Losman
• Matt Cassel
• Brady Quinn (again)

Brady Quinn holds him in high regard i might have read. Sounds like a McD at heart

 

btw.

 wow  that is one heck of sweet list of QB's

 

heck. everyone needs to learn the hard way in the NFL. Daboll is no different.

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

Brady Quinn holds him in high regard i might have read. Sounds like a McD at heart

 

 

 

[Lurker]

40 minutes ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Any guesses why the Bill's have not introduced Daboll yet ?

 

 

Maybe waiting on a few new hires (QB coach, etc.) so they can introduce everyone together...

[JohnBonhamRocks]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Maybe waiting on a few new hires (QB coach, etc.) so they can introduce everyone together...

 

Group selfie?

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Just his OC gigs (Daboll's seasons in bold)...

 

Browns - From 31st (2008) to 28th (2009) to 27th (2010) to 28th (2011)

 

Dolphins - From 14th (2010) to 24th (2011) to 11th (2012)

 

Chiefs - From 32nd (2011) to 32nd (2012) to 5th (2013 - Andy Reid and Alex Smith)

 

Alabama - From 25th (2016) to 46th (2017)

 

Not encouraging.

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Not encouraging.

I'm not sure how old many of the posters focusing on his past OC gigs are, but I bet they're not the same person today that they were 7-9 years ago.     And It's likely Daboll's not either. 

 

Smart people grow and learn new things from their experiences.     Five rings and a college championship in the years since the Chiefs job is a pretty good learning environment...

 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm not sure how old many of the posters focusing on his past OC gigs are, but I bet they're not the same person today that they were 7-9 years ago.     And It's likely Daboll's not either. 

 

Smart people grow and learn new things from their experiences.     Five rings and a college championship in the years since the Chiefs job is a pretty good learning environment...

 

That is true considering he got his first OC job at a pretty young age (33).

[Wayne Arnold]

18 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm not sure how old many of the posters focusing on his past OC gigs are, but I bet they're not the same person today that they were 7-9 years ago.     And It's likely Daboll's not either. 

 

Smart people grow and learn new things from their experiences.     Five rings and a college championship in the years since the Chiefs job is a pretty good learning environment...

 

 

Maybe, but taking Alabama from 25th to 46th in red zone scoring is a little disconcerting. 

[YoloinOhio]

16 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Maybe, but taking Alabama from 25th to 46th in red zone scoring is a little disconcerting. 

It’s 46 out of 130,  and it was only a difference of about 3% between 2016 and 2017. I hated their offense but I hated it with lane too. They have so many recruits they want to involve so it looks like they play everyone and Lane would lose track of who he needed to get the ball to. OSU was 21 or whatever and their offense was worse. It’s just hard to gauge in college with QBs who don’t threaten in the passing game. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Lurker]

14 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Maybe, but taking Alabama from 25th to 46th in red zone scoring is a little disconcerting. 

Alabama's red zone scoring percentage:

 

2016:  89.2%    (58 of 65)        TDs:  40        FGs:    18                 http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/team/8/redzone/offense/split.html

2017:  85.3%    (58 of 68)        TDs:  46        FGs:    12                 http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/team/8/redzone/offense/split.htm

 

I'll take 2017, thanks...

[JoeF]

2 hours ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Any guesses why the Bill's have not introduced Daboll yet ?

 

Other staff changes coming

 

Contractual reasons (buyout clause at ALA)

 

Interference from another organization (Pats)

 

 

 

 

1

I'd say McDermott is out of the office and wants to be there for the introductory conference. 

 

Staff changes beyond this are almost certain. 

 

The buyout clause from AL was $250K so that's a pack of skittles in Pegulabucks.....

 

Interference from the Pats is interesting...do you know something you are not telling us????

[GunnerBill]

On 15/01/2018 at 3:54 PM, billsfan11 said:

 

When a man thinks a guy got fired because he got promoted to a head coach, that should all but tell you right there about his football knowledge.

 

The only way Lynn was staying in Buffalo was if he got the HC job here. If he hadn't landed one anywhere he was going to be an OC somewhere else in the league - probably San Francisco with the connection to the Shanahans. 

 

So Lynn was out in Buffalo regardless once he wasn't going to be HC. Now you are right that he got promoted... but even if he hadn't he wasn't coming back. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by GunnerBill

[stevewin]

14 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I'm not sure if Dennison and Castillo are friends but I believe you are thinking of when Mike Waufle was being recruited by the Bills. He's good friends with Castillo and was the one who said in that video about how he was excited Castillo is coming too. 

Oh - you may be right - thanks

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, JoeF said:

I'd say McDermott is out of the office and wants to be there for the introductory conference. 

 

Staff changes beyond this are almost certain. 

 

The buyout clause from AL was $250K so that's a pack of skittles in Pegulabucks.....

 

Interference from the Pats is interesting...do you know something you are not telling us????

 

 

The "interference" on the Pats is not possible, no NFL ref would ever call them for that.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

12 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Certainly not on purpose but he will be on the roster. He may surprise everyone and play fantastic. 

 

12 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

That is certainly in the realm of possibility.

 I agree 100%

 

Except for the playing fantastic part.

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only way Lynn was staying in Buffalo was if he got the HC job here. If he hadn't landed one anywhere he was going to be an OC somewhere else in the league - probably San Francisco with the connection to the Shanahans. 

 

So Lynn was out in Buffalo regardless once he wasn't going to be HC. Now you are right that he got promoted... but even if he hadn't he wasn't coming back. 

You’re correct. But not bringing Lynn back wouldn’t have been because he did a bad job.

 

He wouldn’t have been back because the new head coach would want to bring in his own guys/system to the table.

Edited January 17, 2018 by billsfan11

[PolishDave]

16 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

Serious question: when an oc leaves, does he have to leave the play book? In any job I've ever had anything I develop is property of the company. I wonder if football works that way too.

 

At the very least, the bills still have the game film and a lot of the players that ran it. Couldn't be that hard to figure out.

 

 

Exactly.

 

The coach can see what was going on in the play just by watching film.   If he has any questions about a particular player's role in the play, he can simply show the player (or another teammate playing the same position) the film and say "what was your assignment supposed to be here on this play?".

 

It makes absolutely no difference if he sees the play in a playbook or not.     For the most part, it is immaterial really.    After all, the only plays he is going to want to assimilate are going to be the most successful ones that were executed well previously.    How many plays are we really talking about - a few dozen perhaps - give or take.

 

On the same note, the new coach should be looking at plays that failed and whether any plays in his playbook closely match those.   Then decide if those closely matching plays ought to be ripped out and burned in effigy.

 

Problem with coaches is most of them are like chef's with egos.   They could follow someone else's recipe that is known to taste great, but they insist on following their own recipe anyway.   My kitchen.  My recipe.

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Maybe, but taking Alabama from 25th to 46th in red zone scoring is a little disconcerting. 

 

What does that mean though? What is the difference between 25th in 2016 and 46th in 2017? Truly asking as merely listing the rankings dont tell any of the story. Did other teams also get better in the red zone while Bama stayed the same, which effectively pushed them down?

 

 

Also...

 

From down here in the heart of SEC country, the report going around is that Daboll had been pushing to bench Hurts and move to a passing attack since November. He saw the writing on the wall with every other playoff contending team bringing a high powered offense and wanted to start getting Bama ready. It was even part of the ass-chewing Daboll got in the Clemson game. Saban wanted to run the ball, Daboll wanted to move to a passing O, and Nick got pissed. Luckily for all of them, Saban finally caved at half-time of the National Championship and turned the reins over to Daboll, and the rest is history.

[vincec]

Most of his success or failure is going to depend on what the Bills do at QB. In a way I feel bad for these OCs that favor the running game. People bring them in when they have crappy QBs and then blame them when the passing game flounders. Heck, Roman had the #1 running game in the NFL and still got canned.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, vincec said:

Most of his success or failure is going to depend on what the Bills do at QB. In a way I feel bad for these OCs that favor the running game. People bring them in when they have crappy QBs and then blame them when the passing game flounders. Heck, Roman had the #1 running game in the NFL and still got canned.

 

Roman was not without his issues.  Even in San Francisco he wore out his welcome.  The passing attack is just too basic - it results in a lot of sacks and is designed for scramblers.  A lot of verticals, hitches, out routes.  Safe stuff that doesn't result in picks.  If the reads aren't there you are supposed to just take off running and avoid turnovers.  

 

My big problem with him was the lack of a 2 minute offense.  That and it taking like 30 seconds to get a play call in so there was never any pre-snap motion, hard counts, and we'd get penalties.

Edited January 17, 2018 by dneveu

[YoloinOhio]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What does that mean though? What is the difference between 25th in 2016 and 46th in 2017? Truly asking as merely listing the rankings dont tell any of the story. Did other teams also get better in the red zone while Bama stayed the same, which effectively pushed them down?

 

 

Also...

 

From down here in the heart of SEC country, the report going around is that Daboll had been pushing to bench Hurts and move to a passing attack since November. He saw the writing on the wall with every other playoff contending team bringing a high powered offense and wanted to start getting Bama ready. It was even part of the ass-chewing Daboll got in the Clemson game. Saban wanted to run the ball, Daboll wanted to move to a passing O, and Nick got pissed. Luckily for all of them, Saban finally caved at half-time of the National Championship and turned the reins over to Daboll, and the rest is history.

3%

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Roman was not without his issues.  Even in San Francisco he wore out his welcome.  The passing attack is just too basic - it results in a lot of sacks and is designed for scramblers.  A lot of verticals, hitches, out routes.  Safe stuff that doesn't result in picks.  If the reads aren't there you are supposed to just take off running and avoid turnovers.  

 

My big problem with him was the lack of a 2 minute offense.  That and it taking like 30 seconds to get a play call in so there was never any pre-snap motion, hard counts, and we'd get penalties.

not defending him , but when you have 2 RB's playing QB.....  how much more can one expect from a passing attack. 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

3%

 

Ha, well there you go. So, what? They scored 2 less times basically?