Anyone concerned about the wr talent?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Your argument was that TT burns through OCs. One of them became a HC. That’s not because he failed!!

OK. Let me try a different angle(because I believe are reading this wrong).

 

 TT burned through 3 OC's and one of them became a HC. 

 

So ........ was the OC AL bad or the QB TT?  

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Romo even said that the read was RB? 

Romo was also impressed with Nate when he cam in. 

 

We're back to arguing past each other.  To the OP.

 

I believe we have decent WR's.  I do not believe we have decent QB's.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OK. Let me try a different angle(because I believe are reading this wrong).

 

 TT burned through 3 OC's and one of them became a HC. 

 

So ........ was the OC AL bad or the QB TT?  

One got fired so Rex could save his job, one became a HC and one is here. What’s the point you are trying to make?

[BringBackFergy]

27 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

We don't know what we have at WR because we don't have a QB that can get them the ball.  I've read a lot of nonsense about how Tyrod doesn't have anyone to throw to and that's why he is so bad.  Oh really?  Because he had Watkins and Woods last year and they are doing great now in LA.  Hogan was tearing it up in NE before his injury.  Before anyone condemns the WR's please first look at the person whose job it is to get them the ball!

This is sooooo dead on. KB, Matthews and Zay can't "create separation" in a West Coast offense. It relies heavily on timing routes and having the ball placed at a spot. I know it's cliche, but overall, Tyrod is not an anticipatory passer (neither is Baker Mayfield but that's a conversation for another thread). Get a real QB in here and our current group of WR's will be fine.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

They very well might have a new QB in 2018 but until they have a GOOD QB, they don't need to be thinking about a receiver.

So don’t give your QB weapons?!?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I'm done for now

[THEHARDTRUTH]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OK. Let me try a different angle(because I believe are reading this wrong).

 

 TT burned through 3 OC's and one of them became a HC. 

 

So ........ was the OC AL bad or the QB TT?  

More arguing about Tyrod. Bitchin. He sucks. No he doesnt. Yes he does. No he doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt....

[SoTier]

45 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

Add a speed guy in the draft and its pretty good.  

 

Zay will be good for a long time and I'm a big KB fan.  

 

Holmes and co can get lost though 

 

The Bills HAD "speed guys" ... the three of them are now playing in LA and in SF.  Obviously, speed and sure handedness aren't part of the "skill set" that the Bills brain trust want.

[HappyDays]

27 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Matthews has 33 targets this year. The least he had in a year in Philly was 105. 

 

Is this the QB or WR fault?

 

Matthews lost snaps to Deonte Thompson on Sunday. Is that the QB’s fault too? Matthews isn’t good. He will be gone next year, Philly went out of their way to replace him and their passing offense is much better than it was last year.

[boyst]

19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s an option but I think that they need more of a speed guy.

I would rather have waited to try to get Landry after the season than hastily have traded for Benjamin. He's never really impressed me, not like Landry does.  

 

With Benjamin here now we needed to have kept Goodwin.

 

Maybe we can call Trevor Graham, he is quite a bit faster.

[Billsfan1972]

The FO & coaching staff set up the offense to fail.  As soon as they jettisoned Watkins the writing was on the wall.

 

Matthews was traded and cost himself $10,000,000+......  

 

A WR with skills is only as good as the QB throwing him the ball and the OC designing plays.

 

This OC is clueless.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Matthews lost snaps to Deonte Thompson on Sunday. Is that the QB’s fault too? Matthews isn’t good. He will be gone next year, Philly went out of their way to replace him and their passing offense is much better than it was last year.

He was number 4 on Philly’s depth chart. That’s why they let him go.

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

I would rather have waited to try to get Landry after the season than hastily have traded for Benjamin. He's never really impressed me, not like Landry does.  

 

With Benjamin here now we needed to have kept Goodwin.

 

Maybe we can call Trevor Graham, he is quite a bit faster.

Landry would have been better than KB but Kab is decent (if healthy).

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

lack of separation only when TT was under center.

 

No it happened with Peterman under center too. Romo pointed it out over and over. Our receivers can’t make a contested catch to save their lives. Three straight plays in the red  zone Peterman threw to Zay Jones matched up against Gilmore. Gilmore beat him cleanly all 3 times. Getting Benjamin back out there will help but you have to be concerned about injuries with him. Next year I would love a speed guy on the outside and Zay in the slot.

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He was number 4 on Philly’s depth chart. That’s why they let him go.

Landry would have been better than KB but Kab is decent (if healthy).

No he was the equal of Watkins and a steal we were told.......

Edited December 5, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[87168]

36 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Tyrod regressed Kirby.  The sooner you get off of the wagon the better you will feel.  

 

Come to the Dark Side friend. 

the OC personnel has regressed.

 

20 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OK. Let me try a different angle(because I believe are reading this wrong).

 

 TT burned through 3 OC's and one of them became a HC. 

 

So ........ was the OC AL bad or the QB TT?  

Romo was also impressed with Nate when he cam in. 

 

We're back to arguing past each other.  To the OP.

 

I believe we have decent WR's.  I do not believe we have decent QB's.

since he has been here, he has had two different head coaches due to the FO firing them. I would hardly say TT "burned" through them. Roman and A. Lynn had this offense clicking...the FO changed staff, and the entire offense has since regressed, including the run game.

Edited December 5, 2017 by 87168

[Lfod]

I'm concerned by the entire offence. I may not be smart enough to pinpoint details but it's obvious we have low to no production on that side of the ball.

 

I don't want a conservative offence that just wants to hang around I hope they abandon that philosophy. I want long calculated sustained drives for touchdowns. I want to feel like the offense has a potential to score every time they hit the field. I wanna be feared not a joke. I wanna be up by 21 points still going for the throat like I'm down 21 points.

 

I have no particular wish. I hope they do everything they can to fix the hot mess that is the offence. 

[Wayne Cubed]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What part of “someone else will be the QB” are you missing? Are we really only capable of evaluating the QB?!? We really are not a smart fan base. Romo talked a lot about the lack of separation on Sunday. The last play of the 3rd quarter was a great example. Regardless of who is under center the guys playing WR are bad.

 

It’s like when people say we can’t evaluate the passing offense because of TT. You certainly can.

 

Look at the route combinations/options Rico draws up, they are horrible. Very easy to defend. 

 

Its tough to know now what we have in some of these WRs because of a couple of reasons. The offense is one and TT is another. Personally, I think Matthew will want too much money for his production. Look at what Woods got. So he’s gone either way. I’m ok with resigning Thompson, looking for another WR in FA and then drafting one into the 2nd/3rd round, preferably someone with speed, which is lacking now.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

We had WR talent on this team, Goodwin, Woods and Watkins. Look how well they are playing with young QB's who don't even have that much experience yet. That shows how bad Taylor was at seeing the field and locking onto one guy. Taylor is not a good passer and WR's are not going to come here in FA because of it.

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills HAD "speed guys" ... the three of them are now playing in LA and in SF.  Obviously, speed and sure handedness aren't part of the "skill set" that the Bills brain trust want.

 

All anyone did was bash Goodwin while he was here.     Now we all want him back ?

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No has was the equal of Watkins and a steal we were told.......

 

Those were pretty funny.   All the Sammy haters showed us the stats that proved Matthews > Sammy ?

3 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

We had WR talent on this team, Goodwin, Woods and Watkins. Look how well they are playing with young QB's who don't even have that much experience yet. That shows how bad Taylor was at seeing the field and locking onto one guy. Taylor is not a good passer and WR's are not going to come here in FA because of it.

 

 

 

That wont apply next year.    

[T master]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

I think good receivers start with good or great QB play !! You put the receivers that we have with a Brady, Rothlesberger, or A Brees & you have a good NOT great receiving group !!

 

But when you have a QB that for what ever reason holds the ball to long & can't put it in a tight window or throw with any anticipation you have a

Buffalo offense ... 

 

I think the Bills top priority will be getting a QB in the draft & that may be (depending on who they get) the start of a turn around but until then same ole same ole !!! 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Peterman and most of the 2018 QB draft class are gunslinger type QB's. I would want a WR like Brandon Marshall and KB on the outside with Jones in the slot. 

 

I would go after Arden Tate and try to sign a FA WR. KB, Tate and Jones would be fun to watch.  Luck for us this WR class seems to have a lot of guys with good size.

[JohnC]

53 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

Good post. No question that our receiving corps is below average. However, this unit can reasonably be upgraded in the offseason.  Matthews will probably be gone after the season. I'm much more upbeat on Zay Jones that you appear to be . You can see the seeds of a good player as he gains confidence. Benjamin is a good number two receiver. He will never fill the role of a number one receiver because he simply isn't good enough or dynamic enough to become that caliber of player. You didn't mention the TE in your post. Clay is a good receiver and would be even more productive with a good qb. As far as I'm concerned the Goodwin loss is matched with the Jones addition. So his departure wasn't so damaging. We could still use another speed receiver to back up the defensive backfield. 

 

As you noted in your last paragraph there are some good free agent prospects who can upgrade the unit. Pryor was a disaster with the Skins but he was playing on a bad ankle all season long. There are options to draw from. 

 

I know you don't want to get drawn into another depressing qb discussion but it doesn't matter who your receivers are until you upgrade the qb position. You and I have always acknowledged the superlative talents of Watkins. Those talents were wasted here. If you get the qb position playing at a respectable level then the current below-average unit will internally improve.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

The two WR's I wish we would've kept we're Goodwin and Woods. If our WR core was KB, Woods, Goodwin, Jones and Tate I would be very happy right now. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

Add a speed guy in the draft and its pretty good.  

 

Zay will be good for a long time and I'm a big KB fan.  

 

Holmes and co can get lost though 

Zay & KB are the only guys you keep. Everyone else you let go. And yes we will need to draft or FA more help. 

[SoTier]

16 minutes ago, 87168 said:

the OC personnel has regressed.

 

since he has been here, he has had two different head coaches due to the FO firing them. I would hardly say TT "burned" through them. Roman and A. Lynn had this offense clicking...the FO changed staff, and the entire offense has since regressed, including the run game.

 

You're wasting your time pointing out facts to Shady.  Some posters with agendas don't let the truth deter them from spreading their propaganda.

17 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I'm concerned by the entire offence. I may not be smart enough to pinpoint details but it's obvious we have low to no production on that side of the ball.

 

I don't want a conservative offence that just wants to hang around I hope they abandon that philosophy. I want long calculated sustained drives for touchdowns. I want to feel like the offense has a potential to score every time they hit the field. I wanna be feared not a joke. I wanna be up by 21 points still going for the throat like I'm down 21 points.

 

I have no particular wish. I hope they do everything they can to fix the hot mess that is the offence. 

 

Why fix what's not broken?  It's Jauronball 2.0.

[chris heff]

McDermott has been calling the shots since his hire. WR was not a weakness he created it by letting two guys walk and trading another. DT was not a weakness now it is, I know, I know, Dareus is lazy, but when he felt like playing he was great. As six games enough to determine that Dareus could not be coached or motivated? Most of the draft picks acquired now have to be used to fill holes where there wasn't any. How about LB? Was no games enough time to evaluate Ragland? So here are this teams needs, QB, OL, WR, RB, DT, LB. 

[RobH063]

32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So don’t give your QB weapons?!?

Absolutely give your QB weapons. I'm just saying have the above average QB first. Without the QB, the receivers don't matter.

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

Absolutely give your QB weapons. I'm just saying have the above average QB first. Without the QB, the receivers don't matter.

 

How, exactly, will you know that you have "an above average QB" if he doesn't have protection or targets?  When he goes elsewhere and shines like so many other ex-Bills have done in recent years?

[blacklabel]

This isn't intended to make excuses for the receivers not consistently getting open but since Roman became OC, they've had some pretty elementary passing schemes that aren't difficult to defend. Now, I haven't looked much into Dennison's passing game but he does seem to excel at getting the tight end open. When Clay has been active he's been a difference maker on offense. 

 

And it may not look like guys aren't getting open but they are and there are plenty of times per game where Taylor flat out doesn't see them, or does see them and doesn't pull the trigger because he's not confident enough to zip one into a tight window. 

 

But yeah, as it's been said already, a speed guy to make safeties back up would go a long way in helping the other dudes get open. And it's clear that Taylor is part of the problem. Woods has been balling all year, and Watkins seems like he's coming into a groove over the last few games. McVay has done wonders for Goff and that offense. It's incredible what happens when you design your scheme around the natural skill sets of your players. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by blacklabel

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

It's a slight concern to me.

I think Jones was a disappointment earlier in the season but I think he's better now.  

I think Matthews is a decent WR...not great or bad. 

 

It's really hard for me to judge our WR group as a whole with QB play as bad as it is.  They aren't great by any stretch but our passing production from the QB position is unacceptable IMO.  Our WR talent is 61 yards per game average bad like we had in our last 2 home games....QB is by far the biggest issue.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Royale with Cheese

[BuffaloHokie13]

KB stays as your X

Zay slides inside to the Slot

Z is open. My gut says FA, and UFAs that fit the profile we need are Mike Wallace, Taylor Gabriel, Allen Robinson, Kendall Wright. That said, I'd be fine if this slot was James Washington or Calvin Ridley.

Re-sign Thompson as WR4

Draft 1 more for depth & development.

Add 1 for KR/PR unless a Rook can do it for you.

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

Completely agree regarding Matthews.

 

As you know, I've been all over signing Paul Richardson.  I think he's the exact missing piece in this WR corps: speed, hands, explosiveness, and has been around a winning organization.

 

Put him on the boundary across from KB, slide Zay into the slot, and run with Holmes and Deonte as the 4/5.  Toss in a youngster like Brandon Reilly and you're in good shape IMO.

[Chicken Boo]

53 minutes ago, chris heff said:

McDermott has been calling the shots since his hire. WR was not a weakness he created it by letting two guys walk and trading another. DT was not a weakness now it is, I know, I know, Dareus is lazy, but when he felt like playing he was great. As six games enough to determine that Dareus could not be coached or motivated? Most of the draft picks acquired now have to be used to fill holes where there wasn't any. How about LB? Was no games enough time to evaluate Ragland? So here are this teams needs, QB, OL, WR, RB, DT, LB. 

 

 

Hey hey, take it easy.  At least we retained Jordan Mills.

 

To the original question, Allen Robinson is a top 5 WR as far as talent goes.  Pretty sure the Jags will tag him, but if not, he should be priority #1 for Beane.

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

And the offense was good!! Look at what the Bills receivers are doing now. Goodwin has more yards than Benjamin, Matthews and Jones combined!! He had Hoyer and Beathard. The guys we have aren’t good. They get no separation and don’t scare anyone down the field. That’s an awful combination of skills. You have to do at least one of the 2.

 

With that being said they are going to have a new QB anyways. You don’t need to wait and find out that Jordan Matthews is never open. Just watch the tape. There is zero chance that he is back. You need to fill that spot regardless.

Tyrod is a 3000 yard passer with Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Tim Brown.  He is what he is.  When you can't anticipate and throw receivers open then you aren't going to be successful in the NFL.  Separation at this level does not happen often and when it does the window closes so fast it will make your head spin.  If the ball isn't there on time it doesn't matter if for a brief second the receiver gained the edge.  The best QB's will throw the receiver open and put it in a place that only they can get it.  When they are covered, they aren't covered.  With someone like KB, you lay that ball up there high and to the outside and let him grab it like a rebound.  Surely they will be adding a speed guy this offseason but to say the current receivers aren't good enough is a myth.  They have all been successful in the past and will continue to be in the post-Tyrod era

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, jr1 said:

Holmes plays like a guy that won a sweepstakes to be an NFL player

This is good stuff.

[mjt328]

Investing high dollars or high draft picks in wide receivers is mostly a waste.

You need to have the Quarterback first.

 

 

New England has consistently featured a high-powered passing game.  Outside of 1-2 years with Randy Moss and this year adding Brandin Cooks, they have invested almost nothing in their receiver corps.  It's all about Tom Brady.  You could literally put anyone on that offense, and they will still be Top 10 in scoring. 

 

Look at the guys who have surrounded Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning etc. through their careers -- then look what happens when those players go to a lesser Quarterback in free agency.  Most of the time, they disappear and are never heard from again.

 

Calvin Johnson was probably the most talented receiver to play in the NFL in the past 10 years.  He retired and the Detroit Lions offense doesn't even miss him.  In fact, I can't think of a single offense in the NFL where a Wide Receiver carries the team.  Even the great Jerry Rice always played with strong QBs during his career.  Would he have been so great playing with a bad QB his whole career, instead of Joe Montana, Steve Young and Rich Gannon?  Doubt it.

 

 

 

Draft a Quarterback who can see the field quickly, then deliver accurate throws into tight windows... suddenly the Bills will have a strong group of receivers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

Tyrod is a 3000 yard passer with Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Tim Brown.  He is what he is.

If he is what he is why do you need to exaggerate to make your point?

He is a 3000 yard passer in 14 games with Watkins, Woods, and Hogan

He is a 3000 yard passer in 15 games with Woods, Goodwin, and Watkins for 7 games

 

Anyway, this is about our WRs, not QB, as Kirby suggested multiple times.

[BillsFan130]

I was high on Matthews and gave him the benefit of the doubt but I am starting to think he is overrated. Seems like he is never open and he is unreliable when trying to make the catch

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

All anyone did was bash Goodwin while he was here.     Now we all want him back ?

 

Those were pretty funny.   All the Sammy haters showed us the stats that proved Matthews > Sammy ?

 

That wont apply next year.    

Well said and you kind of illustrated the point that I was trying to make. We aren’t talking about this year. We are talking about next year when we will presumably have a young 1st round QB to build around.  Let’s give him everything that he needs to succeed. Jordan Matthews in the starting lineup isn’t that.

54 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Completely agree regarding Matthews.

 

As you know, I've been all over signing Paul Richardson.  I think he's the exact missing piece in this WR corps: speed, hands, explosiveness, and has been around a winning organization.

 

Put him on the boundary across from KB, slide Zay into the slot, and run with Holmes and Deonte as the 4/5.  Toss in a youngster like Brandon Reilly and you're in good shape IMO.

That’s why I threw Richardson out there. He may be the perfect fit and you’ve been saying that for months. I think that WR group that you mentioned is a big upgrade on what we have now.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I think Zay will be good and I like KB. It would be nice if we could get everyone on the field healthy at the same time but the QB is still the biggest issue.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

More arguing about Tyrod. Bitchin. He sucks. No he doesnt. Yes he does. No he doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt....

was there any added value to this post?