Is the media the problem here?

[Jasovon]

Nope, being nice to these players and coaches would not make any of the any better.

Wait is this like a Schrodingers cat type scenario, if noone watched the Bills they both suck and don't suck? Is it all of our fault for watching them and seeing them suck?

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, bobm said:

Trying to figure out what our problems are. Bills and Sabres - many, many different players, coaches and staff and schemes, etc. We still lose in spite of all these changes and still have a fragile loser mentality which seems to snowball at any hint of adversity. What is the constant or common denominator? - Maybe, just maybe the constant in all of this is the constant negative media and coverage that continually pick at any sore wound. I'm starting to believe its affecting all of us and our teams with a not good enough, never win, here we go again attitude. Negativity reigns supreme. Just my humble opinion.

You sir, see with clear eyes. 

[Jauronimo]

5 hours ago, bobm said:

Trying to figure out what our problems are. Bills and Sabres - many, many different players, coaches and staff and schemes, etc. We still lose in spite of all these changes and still have a fragile loser mentality which seems to snowball at any hint of adversity. What is the constant or common denominator? - Maybe, just maybe the constant in all of this is the constant negative media and coverage that continually pick at any sore wound. I'm starting to believe its affecting all of us and our teams with a not good enough, never win, here we go again attitude. Negativity reigns supreme. Just my humble opinion.

Yes, the media is largely to blame for the state of the Bills and the Sabres.  But the real question isn't is the media to blame but why??  In order to answer that question we have to look at who controls the media and what possible reason could they have for trying to gugny WNY in the ass?  Who might El Pegual have crossed on his way to esatablishing a natural gas empire and owning BOTH the Bills AND the Sabres despite NFL bylaws which expressly forbid owning two franchises in the same market. 

 

I can't say too much here, but it rhymes with pon chovi, and boodell, backed by bladameer bootin. 

31 minutes ago, Jasovon said:

Nope, being nice to these players and coaches would not make any of the any better.

Wait is this like a Schrodingers cat type scenario, if noone watched the Bills they both suck and don't suck? Is it all of our fault for watching them and seeing them suck?

Schrodinger's cat might be the most famous pet not named Gere's Gerbil.  Both suffered awful fates for science. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Jauronimo

[DC Tom]

I criticize Jerry Sullivan for many things, but even I won't hold him responsible for giving up 300 rushing yards against the Saints.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

I criticize Jerry Sullivan for many things, but even I won't hold him responsible for giving up 300 rushing yards against the Saints.

Oh yeah? How many tackles did he have? And don't give me that 'well he was taking up two blockers' line.

[nedboy7]

5 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

you know nedboy, I don't know how long you've been a fan but not only the last couple decades but the last three games this season alone can and has turned the fans sour. maybe you're a glutton for punishment? for you to question those fans, call them pathetic or question their mental stability is showing a very weak observation on your part and at the end of the day you should actually question yourself on your pathetic opinion of those fans. why in the world would you even let it bother you? if you want to drink the kool-aide and praise the team who is and has been losing year in and year out, that is your prerogative.  just as it is their prerogative who don't drink the kool-aide or support the incompetence that has been the buffalo bills for all of the 21st century.

 

just a suggestion, if you can't take it, why come here just to complain about it?

 

 

 

I been watching every single game for 20 years plus.  I lived in Buffalo during the 4 SB years.  Let me ask you.... If you cant take it why do you watch anymore.  I hear what you are saying.  I come across a little judgemental.  But at least I'm not mental. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

TBN sucks but even I can blame them for the lousy teams.

[ColoradoBills]

I can't blame the media.

Buffalo truly is a "Drinking town" with a "Sports problem".

[McNubbins]

The problem is the GM/coaching staff turn-style.

[fridge]

They had the support of the fans and media going into the Thursday Night game against the Jets with a 5-2 record.  If the media is to blame, are you saying it was their fault for being too supportive at that point in the season?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

25 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

I been watching every single game for 20 years plus.  I lived in Buffalo during the 4 SB years.  Let me ask you.... If you cant take it why do you watch anymore.  I hear what you are saying.  I come across a little judgemental.  But at least I'm not mental. 

 

 

 

well, to be honest. I did get through the jets debacle. I did not watch all of the saints game, think it was mid third, had enough. last week when they went up 47-10 late in the third, closed the browser.

 

I saw no reason to partake/watch a beat down, annihilation.

 

no, I watch for obvious reasons, one being a fan. however, I wont be calling anyone pathetic or question their mental stability because they don't see it my way. I didn't question watching, I questioned why come here to the board if some posts are of a negative nature and allow it to bug you to the point of insult?

 

after near about 45 years, I feel I can criticize just the same as I can praise. there has been more criticism and justifiably so in the last two decades. after you see these three year carousals so many times fail, it can be hard to put much stock in to whether they finally succeed.

 

I'll hang in there though.  you hang in there yourself nedboy, don't let the critics/haters/agenda group/negative nancies get you down, man.

[Kelly the Dog]

Big, if true, which it's not. 

[SoTier]

There might be something to your idea, OP.  There were certainly negative vibes in the media -- including radio call-in shows and electronic media like this MB -- about Watkins, Dareus, and Taylor, and two of them were traded while Taylor was benched.   Fans whined about Taylor being too conservative, so they had Peterman try to throw downfield like he was a veteran QB.

[FLXbillsmafia]

Or maybe the media is negative because both teams have been so terrible.

 

What the OP is saying is like claiming that more cops is causing higher crime rates, while the real answer is that there are more cops in certain neighborhoods precisely because the crime rate is higher in those areas.

[Fadingpain]

Idiotic premise to a ridiculous thread.

 

 

[CodeMonkey]

22 hours ago, bobm said:

Trying to figure out what our problems are. Bills and Sabres - many, many different players, coaches and staff and schemes, etc. We still lose in spite of all these changes and still have a fragile loser mentality which seems to snowball at any hint of adversity. What is the constant or common denominator? - Maybe, just maybe the constant in all of this is the constant negative media and coverage that continually pick at any sore wound. I'm starting to believe its affecting all of us and our teams with a not good enough, never win, here we go again attitude. Negativity reigns supreme. Just my humble opinion.

The media is negative because the teams suck.  Not the other way around.

[leonbus23]

I think the topic is a bit more complicated than many think.

 

My quick answer to the OP's claim is no; the media is not the problem for the Buffalo teams' continued failures.

 

But media does have influence over all people. As McLuhan once said, "All media work us over completely. They are so pervasive in their personal, political, economic, aesthetic, psychological, moral, ethical, and social consequences, that they leave no part of us untouched, unaffected, unaltered. The medium is the massage.”  McLuhan was referring to all media forms, along with what we call "the media," but nonetheless, we are all touched by its presence.

 

This includes owners, players, coaches, etc.

 

Furthermore, I do not think those who claim immunity to media are being completely honest (especially while simultaneously posting messages through a media interface).

 

In simple terms, if those at the highest places of power use media and are influenced by media, then why wouldn't people like Pegula, McDermott, or any player be influenced by its power. For instance, there may be a correlation between Twitter and performance. In other words, a mass influx of positive comments through social media may inspire  while a mass influx of negative may produce negativity.

 

I realize many are skeptical of this possibility, but I think that revolves the concept of the individual who "sees through" media or plays the role of what Reinhold Niebuhr calls the "cool observer."  Again, I find this dishonest. 

 

And again, I disagree with the OP's central claim, but it is not an entirely worthless premise.

[CodeMonkey]

41 minutes ago, leonbus23 said:

And again, I disagree with the OP's central claim, but it is not an entirely worthless premise.

I disagree.  Simply look back to when the Bills were 5-2 (seems so long ago, doesn't it).  Except for worthless people such as Sully, the media, national as well as local, were loving McCoach and the Bills.  Because they were winning and looking pretty good doing it.  Fast forward 3 [very long] weeks after the Bills look like a steaming pile of crap all 3 games and the talk is now about the mistakes, lack of talent, ill advised trades and so on.  Nothing complicated at all.  The media (except as noted, the Sully types and also any shills owned by the team) is a reflection of the team.  Not a driving force in determining the season for the team.

[Mr. WEO]

Oh man......

 

 

That's like asking "is the hot stove burner at least partially responsible for burning my hand each time I touch it?".

 

If thy media offends thee, pluck it out.  (stop watching or reading)

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, leonbus23 said:

I think the topic is a bit more complicated than many think.

 

My quick answer to the OP's claim is no; the media is not the problem for the Buffalo teams' continued failures.

 

But media does have influence over all people. As McLuhan once said, "All media work us over completely. They are so pervasive in their personal, political, economic, aesthetic, psychological, moral, ethical, and social consequences, that they leave no part of us untouched, unaffected, unaltered. The medium is the massage.”  McLuhan was referring to all media forms, along with what we call "the media," but nonetheless, we are all touched by its presence.

 

This includes owners, players, coaches, etc.

 

Furthermore, I do not think those who claim immunity to media are being completely honest (especially while simultaneously posting messages through a media interface).

 

In simple terms, if those at the highest places of power use media and are influenced by media, then why wouldn't people like Pegula, McDermott, or any player be influenced by its power. For instance, there may be a correlation between Twitter and performance. In other words, a mass influx of positive comments through social media may inspire  while a mass influx of negative may produce negativity.

 

I realize many are skeptical of this possibility, but I think that revolves the concept of the individual who "sees through" media or plays the role of what Reinhold Niebuhr calls the "cool observer."  Again, I find this dishonest. 

 

And again, I disagree with the OP's central claim, but it is not an entirely worthless premise.

 

 

In the Bills case.........they also feed the media negative takes when it suits them as well. 

 

I was shocked by the very pointed, non-stop trashing of Marcell Dareus all preseason by Bills talking heads on radio...........that would have never been allowed if they didn't want it out there.

 

They've done their share of groundwork laying and it has VERY MUCH influenced much of this fanbase into buying whatever they had to sell.

 

 

[vincec]

Isn’t there some way we could blame immigrants for this? They must have a role in this debacle, no? Or is it the Jews again?

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In the Bills case.........they also feed the media negative takes when it suits them as well. 

 

I was shocked by the very pointed, non-stop trashing of Marcell Dareus all preseason by Bills talking heads on radio...........that would have never been allowed if they didn't want it out there.

 

They've done their share of groundwork laying and it has VERY MUCH influenced much of this fanbase into buying whatever they had to sell.

 

 

 

"They" meaning the Bills organization?  Are you saying that the Bills wanted the media to trash Dareus or are you saying they could somehow have prevented the Dareus commentary on the radio, such as it was?  How could they do that?  When have they ever been able to do that?

[Coach Tuesday]

Let's just go all in and blame Hillary and Obama, eh?

[BuffaloBill]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:06 AM, kdiggz said:

 

 

They do supply the majority of hockey players....  

[Gugny]

What's next?  Is someone gonna blame God?!?!?

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

"They" meaning the Bills organization?  Are you saying that the Bills wanted the media to trash Dareus or are you saying they could somehow have prevented the Dareus commentary on the radio, such as it was?  How could they do that?  When have they ever been able to do that?

 

 

Bills media employees( like Chris Brown, Mark Kelso) trashing Dareus on the Bills own pregame.

 

I'm not talking about being kinda' critical.........TRASHING the guy.

 

The Dareus analysis went on from one guest to the next for close to two hours during drive-time..........the Bills organization wanted to get the message out there why they were getting rid of the guy.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Bills media employees( like Chris Brown, Mark Kelso) trashing Dareus on the Bills own pregame.

 

I'm not talking about being kinda' critical.........TRASHING the guy.

 

The Dareus analysis went on from one guest to the next for close to two hours during drive-time..........the Bills organization wanted to get the message out there why they were getting rid of the guy.

 

 

 

 

 

Link?

 

Also, if they wanted "to get the message out" as to why they were getting rid of him, why did they wait so long after that to get rid of him?

 

Also, Chris Brown isn't a member of "the media", neither is Kelso.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Link?

 

Also, if they wanted "to get the message out" as to why they were getting rid of him, why did they wait so long after that to get rid of him?

 

Also, Chris Brown isn't a member of "the media", neither is Kelso.

 

Good question about why they didn't get rid of him earlier.......that's what Brown and Kelso were both saying "I don't know how McD can even go forward into the season with his "process" with Dareus here........he doesn't like football......he's a selfish teammate......good to family members so don't understand why he can't be a good teammate".   Which is of course VERY different rhetoric from the normal company line.   Particularly with Kelso who generally refuses to be directly critical of anyone on the team.   I was shocked that Dareus was still on the roster on opening day after all of that pointed criticism from the mouthpieces.    

 

As I said.......the Bills also use the media to forward their agenda as well........Brown, Kelso, Jones, Murphy.......all serve as faux media that are mixed in, often simultaneously with many other non-Bills employee media on WGR.

[Punching Bag]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:06 AM, Mrbojanglezs said:

They have all the power to influence the emotions of the public

 

And they have power to influence perception of outside players/coaches about coming to Buffalo.  Many, many posts about how "difficult" it is to get players / coaches to come to Buffalo.  Of course Jerry Sullivan ball washers will try to have it both ways.

[Gugny]

29 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

And they have power to influence perception of outside players/coaches about coming to Buffalo.  Many, many posts about how "difficult" it is to get players / coaches to come to Buffalo.  Of course Jerry Sullivan ball washers will try to have it both ways.

 

Players and coaches have one influence.  Money.  It's absurd to think otherwise, unless you're talking about the Patriots ... which, believe me ... we are not.

[Ol Dirty B]

No... I've seen a lot of dumb reasoning for why the buffalo sports team have been bad.

 

This is the dumbest **** I've ever read. The media has been easy on McDermott with all they've done. Excuses for Watkins, and Dareus. Largely supportive of the Peterman change until after the game, besides School. These guys would have been getting killed in a lot of markets, and it'd be devservingly so. They've made a lot of questionable moves that they've been given passes on.

36 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

And they have power to influence perception of outside players/coaches about coming to Buffalo.  Many, many posts about how "difficult" it is to get players / coaches to come to Buffalo.  Of course Jerry Sullivan ball washers will try to have it both ways.

 

I don't like Jerry Sullivan, but are you giving him credit for keeping players away? I take back what I said about the OP, this is the dumbest **** I've ever read. Nobody know who Jerry Sullivan is outside of Buffalo and Rochester.

 

Get !@#$ing real, the poorly ran team is what has kept players from coming here. If anything. That's a joke.

[bobobonators]

Every NFL team has media to deal with. You think NY media sources are any better with the Giants and Jets? 

 

As an aside, The rise of 24/7 media coverage, both in regular news and sports news, has not been positive for anyone in my opinion. There is only so much a topic can be covered before you find yourself creating narratives in order to justify being on 24/7. News is no longer just about facts; we’re constantly being told how we should feel about a particular topic. 

 

That being said, Schopp isnt playing DT for us on Sundays and the Bulldog isnt lined up at QB. 

[dulles]

Always!

Now, what was the context of the question?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Nope, every organization is a sum of its decisions. 

 

The Bills continuously get the three biggest positions wrong - QB, GM and Coach. 

[T-Bomb]

Pegula is a crap owner, that's the problem...

[freeagentqb]

Wow, a lot of passionate replies to my posting.  In hindsight, I probably should have said that the negative media is not THE cause of the Bills woes but a contributor to it.  So much second-guessing and over the top criticism just adds fuel to the fire.  You know some of the players see and hear all the negatism ,  Another thing I notice is various message boards are very quiet after a win but god forbid if they lose, everyone is jumping on board with criticism of every little thing. 

 

Just an observation......  

[Punching Bag]

18 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

No... I've seen a lot of dumb reasoning for why the buffalo sports team have been bad.

 

This is the dumbest **** I've ever read. The media has been easy on McDermott with all they've done. Excuses for Watkins, and Dareus. Largely supportive of the Peterman change until after the game, besides School. These guys would have been getting killed in a lot of markets, and it'd be devservingly so. They've made a lot of questionable moves that they've been given passes on.

 

I don't like Jerry Sullivan, but are you giving him credit for keeping players away? I take back what I said about the OP, this is the dumbest **** I've ever read. Nobody know who Jerry Sullivan is outside of Buffalo and Rochester.

 

Get !@#$ing real, the poorly ran team is what has kept players from coming here. If anything. That's a joke.

 

I'd did state I thought Jerry Sullivan could influence where a player took a crap - he is a joke.

 

I commented about POSTS ON THE WALL which have stated many, many times that Buffalo is a pariah and good players and coaches do not want to come here.  Personally I think the POSTERS who posted such are idiots.

[Kelly the Dog]

Should the media get some of the credit for the win?

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Should the media get some of the credit for the win?

 

Certainly as much as you.

[Kelly the Dog]

31 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Certainly as much as you.

Actually I may have helped the win, like perhaps 0.00001%. 

 

I intentionally wore a red Bills tee shirt when I watched the game, figuring that the football gods hate us but if they weren't paying serious attention...