Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Right now, it's a bad move IMO. Wasting what is likely Kyle's last year. Maybe not being able to truly evaluate TT in the most important season. Getting rid of star players. Banking on your own ability to do something you have yet to prove you can do under anyone's standard. TT doesn't need any more evaluation. He is what he is, and what he isn't is a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 So we got a second for Watkins and that's good??? a 2nd in 2018 or a 3rd in 2019. Which would you take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Massive failure in what the Bills got in exchange for a elite talent at WR. If he stays healthy...the Bills Got absolutely fleeced. Maybe he doesn't and it looks better, but his career thus far has mirrored Julio Jones'. I wouldn't have let this guy walk for anything less than a first rounder. You could never get a first rounder for a guy who can't stay on the field, wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplacedBillsFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Once again, you are incorrect here. Read this: https://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194793-sammy-to-be-100-ready-to-go-for-training-camp/page-3?do=findComment&comment=4438607 He actually made more of his opportunities than the others on this list. You're still picking a specific 9 game sample size that supports your opinion and ignoring the rest of his career statistics. The problem is you reached your conclusion and now you're trying to find information to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 ^Kelly the Dog I think it's more about professionalism than character. Fine line, but I think the difference is being fit to work in the NFL for the former and just being a "good person" for the latter. A team wants the guys who are taking care of themselves, going to be available, and then produce while on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8billsfan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 These moves hurt all the Vets hopes of reaching the playoffs. I'll be surprised if we win 4 games. The Bills on our roster will not be lookin to play for this organization as hard as they might have prior to these changes. Beane, pack your bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 People, PLEASE don't tell me you are surprised. Seriously. For decades the Bills have focused on the secondary more than any other position with first round pick after first round pick as well as free agent signings. Well, this administration went further and traded away their most talented player for a corner. If the Bills had a top 10 quarterback they would probably trade him for a corner. I have been telling you folks this since the day I came on TSW. I hope that this is not a prelude to leaving WNY because the fans won't put up with this. People watch the Bills and spend their money to see a winner, not to watch cornerbacks. The Bills are now the most boring team in the NFL, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) Either the Bills were not comfortable signing Sammy long term due to injury concerns. Or they new Sammy was pricing himself out of Buffalo regardless of his health. Its a bit of the Tortoise and the Hare. Would you rather have an elite receiver who plays half the time or a good receiver who plays all of the time? Edited August 11, 2017 by Maddog69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 ^Kelly the Dog I think it's more about professionalism than character. Fine line, but I think the difference is being fit to work in the NFL for the former and just being a "good person" for the latter. A team wants the guys who are taking care of themselves, going to be available, and then produce while on the field. Watkins works very hard. I'm not sure about Darby either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplacedBillsFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I was kidding bruhhhh Yea, I got that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 You're still picking a specific 9 game sample size that supports your opinion and ignoring the rest of his career statistics. The problem is you reached your conclusion and now you're trying to find information to support it. No, not at all. What I've done is compare the entirety of the 2015 season for every receiver; you need to actually read the stuff. And the reason I focus on the 9-game stretch often is because (as you'd know if you took a second to read) it's the only stretch of his career during which he received anywhere close to the same number of targets as those guys. It's an issue of opportunity when on the field; not an issue of performance. People, PLEASE don't tell me you are surprised. Seriously. For decades the Bills have focused on the secondary more than any other position with first round pick after first round pick as well as free agent signings. Well, this administration went further and traded away their most talented player for a corner. If the Bills had a top 10 quarterback they would probably trade him for a corner. I have been telling you folks this since the day I came on TSW. I hope that this is not a prelude to leaving WNY because the fans won't put up with this. People watch the Bills and spend their money to see a winner, not to watch cornerbacks. The Bills are now the most boring team in the NFL, hands down. Wrong time to trot out this argument considering that they also traded a corner for a WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 No, not at all. What I've done is compare the entirety of the 2015 season for every receiver; you need to actually read the stuff. And the reason I focus on the 9-game stretch often is because (as you'd know if you took a second to read) it's the only stretch of his career during which he received anywhere close to the same number of targets as those guys. It's an issue of opportunity when on the field; not an issue of performance. Wrong time to trot out this argument considering that they also traded a corner for a WR Sure, defend them. I am not going to fight you my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 People, PLEASE don't tell me you are surprised. Seriously. For decades the Bills have focused on the secondary more than any other position with first round pick after first round pick as well as free agent signings. Well, this administration went further and traded away their most talented player for a corner. If the Bills had a top 10 quarterback they would probably trade him for a corner. I have been telling you folks this since the day I came on TSW. I hope that this is not a prelude to leaving WNY because the fans won't put up with this. People watch the Bills and spend their money to see a winner, not to watch cornerbacks. The Bills are now the most boring team in the NFL, hands down. Oh stop it. This is utter foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Sure, defend them. I am not going to fight you my friend. It's a long thread Bill; accusing me of defending them on this trade is totally misdirected my good man. I'm super pissed about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 a 2nd in 2018 or a 3rd in 2019. Which would you take? Neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bster Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 The fear of Banana peels has largely been lifted but mostly replaced, after reading the dissenting comments here, by a newfound fear of mass idiocy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Watkins works very hard. I'm not sure about Darby either way. I can't say whether he does or doesn't, but I know that Matthews is available more often. He also seems like more of a leader. ... Regardless, I do wonder separately if they'll use Matthews as a returner and if that also opens up a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 It's a long thread Bill; accusing me of defending them on this trade is totally misdirected my good man. I'm super pissed about this one. Please consider the rest of my post. I am serious. They are absolutely the most boring team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Ok, just got back from lunch and I see that the new administration is totally inept. Glad we didn't renew season tickets. This organization is a sick, twisted joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 It's an issue of opportunity when on the field; not an issue of performance. If Sammy stays relatively healthy from here on out it's a TERRIBLE trade. Performance is not the bet. The bet is can he stay healthy. We'll see how it plays out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 This may be the worst move I've ever seen the Bills make...and that's saying something. I don't know how to read this except that the Bills have decided to give up already and begin a complete rebuild. It's hard to imagine them not getting far more for Sammy had they simply traded him earlier in the offseason when rosters weren't yet final, or getting there. This is just a new low from a team that I didn't think could sink any lower. Nice they also did this after most people made their call on season tickets. If that doesn't tell you where the organizations priories are I do t know what will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 No, not at all. What I've done is compare the entirety of the 2015 season for every receiver; you need to actually read the stuff. And the reason I focus on the 9-game stretch often is because (as you'd know if you took a second to read) it's the only stretch of his career during which he received anywhere close to the same number of targets as those guys. It's an issue of opportunity when on the field; not an issue of performance. More to the point, trades are about the FUTURE, not the past, and Watkins projects as a superstar provided he's healthy. He is 24, and I can't think of one player who was permanently debilitated by the injury he suffered. Matthews projects as 10.5-11.5 ypc JAG playing in the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplacedBillsFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 No, not at all. What I've done is compare the entirety of the 2015 season for every receiver; you need to actually read the stuff. And the reason I focus on the 9-game stretch often is because (as you'd know if you took a second to read) it's the only stretch of his career during which he received anywhere close to the same number of targets as those guys. It's an issue of opportunity when on the field; not an issue of performance. Wrong time to trot out this argument considering that they also traded a corner for a WR Yea, I read and completely understand it, and it appears we just have different perceptions on this and his value. I was originally upset with this trade and have been a huge Sammy fan, but after considering all of the factors of what he actually brings to this team, what we got in return, and the real possibility he would not have be signed again anyway after this year, I see this trade as a huge positive for a franchise that has consistently struggled. Again, considering all factors with both trades, we are better off now than we were before the trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Please consider the rest of my post. I am serious. They are absolutely the most boring team in the NFL. That's your opinion and you're entitled of course. I believe they have some exciting guys like Shady McCoy and TT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 This truly marks the end of the whaley fiasco, pfft 2 first rounders for a wr who more than likely is a bust. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm stunned this trade came out of nowhere. Not even a leak. Was this because Beane really didn't shop Sammy around? Could he have gotten more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Yea, I read and completely understand it, and it appears we just have different perceptions on this and his value. I was originally upset with this trade and have been a huge Sammy fan, but after considering all of the factors of what he actually brings to this team, what we got in return, and the real possibility he would not have be signed again anyway after this year, I see this trade as a huge positive for a franchise that has consistently struggled. Again, considering all factors with both trades, we are better off now than we were before the trades. And again I ask: how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm pretty sure starting Johnson over flutie is way worse than this. We could've been Superbowl runnerups that year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 This truly marks the end of the whaley fiasco, pfft 2 first rounders for a wr who more than likely is a bust. Bye. Let's see how this sounds if Sammy has a breakout season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Hey Sky Diver!!!! The tank is on my friend. Get ready for Rosen Time!!! Bring that ACT score to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 With the emphasis on the running game and no deep threat/ slot receiver types we will see 9 man fronts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
707BillsFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 a 2nd in 2018 or a 3rd in 2019. Which would you take? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm pretty sure starting Johnson over flutie is way worse than this. We could've been Superbowl runnerups that year Flutie wasn't taking the Bills to the Super Bowl. His little pixie hop move was figured out by the rest of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 They are a terrible organization. This is no longer an opinion. Correct. They might be the worst-run business in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 ^Kelly the Dog I think it's more about professionalism than character. Fine line, but I think the difference is being fit to work in the NFL for the former and just being a "good person" for the latter. A team wants the guys who are taking care of themselves, going to be available, and then produce while on the field. So Sammy is unprofessional because his bones can break? That's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 After a little reflection it's understandable what Beane and Opie are doing, I just don't think it's the right move. They are going way overboard on character and culture to the detriment of talent. You need both. Sammy clearly rubbed them the wrong way and they made a choice that they weren't going to re-sign him. Newsflash, a WR has a big ego and says some questionable things. This was all about making a statement and bringing their own guys in and building a long term team. It may or may not work. Right now, it's a bad move IMO. Wasting what is likely Kyle's last year. Maybe not being able to truly evaluate TT in the most important season. Getting rid of star players. Banking on your own ability to do something you have yet to prove you can do under anyone's standard. They are looking for a certain kind of player. I can't really think of a team where that has really worked, meaning we want 53 high character guys and we will jettison better players with less character. Good post and I agree wholeheartedly. And while I'm not a TT guy...I think they are putting him and the offense as a whole in a tough spot. This team has no outside threat, and team's will load up on the run and short pass game. Watkins was an elite talent, and you don't jettison him unless you get a great return. The Bills got worse today, and now need to draft a playmaking WR again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I actually like this trade. Watkins wasnt going to resign, and he is always injured. Got 2 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders and 2 3rd rounders now I do too. I remember hearing about Watkins playing b'ball during the offseason somewhere, and that was certainly knucklehead behavior for a guy who was supposed to be one of the most important players on the team. On a way lesser level, it seemed like Cardale Jones was a knucklehead too for seemingly not really put in the time, effort and passion to make himself better. This is all based off of the lives they live through social media. The new coach seems serious about wanting his players to be seriously "all in" and not take their jobs as Bills players so nonchalantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I love this trade! Sammy will struggle with his injured foot all season and rack up maybe 600 yards playing with Goff before walking to the highest bidder. We get another draft chip to angle for our future franchise QB. I'm neutral on the Darby deal, but I see the logic behind it. More than anything, I'm inspired that the new regime has the balls to make what would appear as an unpopular move in the short term for long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Can someone that's watched Gaines explain why a short-armed, small-bodied CB is a good fit? I really hope it's not just because he can tackle. He trusts the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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