The Tyrod Taylor Question

[BringBackFergy]

My requirements:

 

Get rid of the visor on his helmet....Johnny Football had one and look where it got him.

Throw the ball to Robert Woods more...he's a stud.

Shave the mustache...I can't think of one Hall of Fame QB that had a mustache (and Tyrod's is kind of thin anyway. If you're gonna grow one, make it a full Ryan O"Reilly beard)

Shoot for 16 straight weeks of being the Ben Russ Best Dressed

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Yes it does and camp is about to open so that is why I posted it. What do people need to see as improvement in how he plays as an individual. I think the ones I want to see are very easy to see with ones own eye, without access to playcall and read sheet.

 

Also something easy to point to No matter what offense these things are needed in your QB.

 

I didn't put accuracy (because he did struggle with that last year, but was decent his 1st year). I guess I could add it as well but more in terms of Proper Ball Placement

Sure it's a good conversation topic.... just think what the offense needs from him is integral to the evaluation.

 

The biggest unknown for me is his short game. Can he read pre snap, take a three step drop from center and hit a quick slant over the middle. If I'm remembering right that's text book WCO and I never saw much of that from him.

 

Was that a weakness or was that a scheme eventuality?

My requirements:

 

Get rid of the visor on his helmet....Johnny Football had one and look where it got him.

Throw the ball to Robert Woods more...he's a stud.

Shave the mustache...I can't think of one Hall of Fame QB that had a mustache (and Tyrod's is kind of thin anyway. If you're gonna grow one, make it a full Ryan O"Reilly beard)

Shoot for 16 straight weeks of being the Ben Russ Best Dressed

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Aaron-Rodgers.jpg Edited July 25, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood

[Cherrybone]

We needed another Tyrod thread.

You do know you're not obligated to respond to it?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

For me, if he is going to remain there are a few things that I need to see. Gross stats mean nothing at all to me. I care about 3rd down efficiency, RZ efficiency, TD to Int and a high yards per attempt. If those things happen the offense's will be rolling.

 

...onus is on Dennison to design an offense that fits him....he is the right guy and I'm thinking this is TT's "make it or break it" year...........

[reddogblitz]

He HAS to play better in crunch time. Too many times we get the football back down less than 8 and he flubs it up or at least doesn't get it done. Seattle, Miami, Eagles, Washington all come to mind quickly.

 

If he could do better and win us half those kinds of game, we're in and the drought is over and we name a street after McDermott and build a Hotrod statue in the parking lot.

 

I'm fine with everything else. He's GOTTA do better at this if he wants to stay.

[Rocky Landing]

I would like to see him consistently step forward in the pocket. He rarely does this, but it seemed to me that he did it more last season than he did the season before. And, the only plays where he effectively threw up the middle were the plays in which he did. I personal don't think he will take the next big step until he gets better at maintaining the pocket. If and when he does, our O-line immediately improves, and the rest of our offense with it.

[yungmack]

I for one am delighted that someone has finally raised the issues of TT's shortcomings. How have we managed to overlook them this long is beyond me.

[transplantbillsfan]

For me, if he is going to remain there are a few things that I need to see. Gross stats mean nothing at all to me. I care about 3rd down efficiency, RZ efficiency, TD to Int and a high yards per attempt. If those things happen the offense's will be rolling.

Sooo... how good do these things need to be for you?

 

You realize Taylor is already 14th in 3rd down % and 6th in RZ Passer Rating, right?

I think though with a weak QB UFA Class and a Weak QB draft the Bills where smart to essentially reboot the contract. Notice they didn't commit long term to him though either right

I think the fact that people are so dismissive of the 2017 QB draft class is kind of funny. Weren't three QBs drafted in the first round? Didn't all three QBs have their respective teams trade up to draft them? The bills had an opportunity to draft two of those three quarterbacks. They didn't. I understand that no one wants to see that as any kind of faith and Taylor because of the draft picks they acquired for next year. But if anything, it was a team demonstrating both faith in Taylor while also hedging their bets and understanding that the NFL is a win now league and Taylor isn't proven enough to hold onto after this year if he fails.

 

That doesn't mean anything other than the fact that all QBs fail at some point in their career mainly and largely if you're thinking about team success. Philip Rivers has been for years. Drew Brees. Andrew luck. Joe Flacco. Cam Newton.

 

But all of those guys are proven to varying degrees. Taylor hasn't built up the cache to be even just average this year and stick around. He's going to likely need a top 10-12 year to stick around.

 

Just watch next year turn into the same "week QB class" we had this year. Too funny

Edited July 26, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Kirby Jackson]

Sooo... how good do these things need to be for you?

 

You realize Taylor is already 14th in 3rd down % and 6th in RZ Passer Rating, right?

I don't know where they need to be.

 

I'm of the belief that he has a chance to be the guy. Those are the things that matter to me because those ultimately determine a good offense or a bad offense. I can't judge him based on anything else. His job is to run the offense. 200 passing yards, 300 passing yards, 500 passing yards don't matter at all. Does he keep the chains moving? Do they score when they are in position to? Do they make a lot more plays than mistakes? Are the efficient when they throw? Do they pick up chunks of yardage? If the answer is yes to those the offense will be really good. If he is running a really good offense why would they change?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[mead107]

Tyrod = 19-0 baby

[fansince88]

Be decisive

Be clutch

Be accurate over the middle

Exactly!

[SoCal Deek]

 

So if he put up a drew brees stat-line (5000 yards and 37 TDs) and our defense tanked, you'd say get rid of him?

.

 

Oh come on! While he didn't put up Bree's like numbers, he DID have a good year last year and the defense DID tank! And yes people want to get rid of him. What's been lacking? WINNING!

[John from Riverside]

I don't know where they need to be.

 

I'm of the belief that he has a chance to be the guy. Those are the things that matter to me because those ultimately determine a good offense or a bad offense. I can't judge him based on anything else. His job is to run the offense. 200 passing yards, 300 passing yards, 500 passing yards don't matter at all. Does he keep the chains moving? Do they score when they are in position to? Do they make a lot more plays than mistakes. Are the efficient when they throw? Do they pick up chunks of yardage when they throw? If the answer is yes to those the offense will be really good. If he is running a really good offense why would they change?

I think the way that the contract played out....the aquiring of 1 first round picks.....drafting a qb after taking one in 4th last year...etc etc

 

The writing is on the wall....Tyrod needs to be much better then he was last year....now some of that is not his fault....guys like Clay need to play up to their potential....Sammy needs to show why we used 2 first rounders on him.....etc etc....the defense needs to not give up points like we are top 10 in scoring (even though we were)

 

but...he needs to do some things at the RIGHT moments....or I think he is going to be competing with a first round qb pick the following off season

[Kirby Jackson]

I think the way that the contract played out....the aquiring of 1 first round picks.....drafting a qb after taking one in 4th last year...etc etc

 

The writing is on the wall....Tyrod needs to be much better then he was last year....now some of that is not his fault....guys like Clay need to play up to their potential....Sammy needs to show why we used 2 first rounders on him.....etc etc....the defense needs to not give up points like we are top 10 in scoring (even though we were)

 

but...he needs to do some things at the RIGHT moments....or I think he is going to be competing with a first round qb pick the following off season

I think that it will be an either or. Either they will determine that he is the guy moving forward or they draft a guy and part ways with TT. I'd be surprised if TT and a 1st round rookie were both on the team in 2018. The opener will be Tyrod's 30th start. By the end of the year they are going to have a decision on him. There is no reason to pay him as a stop gap.

[fansince88]

The biggest issue at the end of the day is this symbol in the standings: W/L

Improve the D and W/L gets real exciting

Edited July 26, 2017 by fansince88

[Augie]

You do know you're not obligated to respond to it?

That's a fair point, but there should be some kind of limit. It gets totally out of hand at times with TT threads.

 

That said, I want better anticipation and seeing the whole field, including the middle.

[Virgil]

Couldn't even make it to to our first preseason game for this to start.

[Rocky Landing]

That's a fair point, but there should be some kind of limit. It gets totally out of hand at times with TT threads.

 

That said, I want better anticipation and seeing the whole field, including the middle.

Although, to be fair, most TT threads do not, in fact, start out as TT threads.

[Thurman#1]

The obvious things, I think. I'd like to see him throwing before guys are open, with anticipation. Stay in the pocket until it actually starts to break down. Go through more options faster in his progressions. And see things better in the deep and intermediate middle of the field.

 

The quantitative stats won't mean much. The qualitative stats will. Nearly always when the film is showing a guy throwing well, the qualitative stats reflect that and look good.

 

Plus one more thing. I'd like to see him not tail off at the end of the year. This is a new offense and will likely start fairly strong since teams won't have film on these guys in this offense. As they get film and figure out what's going on, they'll start to attack more intelligently. Good offenses / coaches / players adapt when that happens. Limited ones can't. This happened in Tyrod's 2015. His passer rating for the first six games was, if I remember correctly, around 20 points higher than it was in the last eight games when it dipped to pretty much the level he maintained this year. The same happened with YPA. Completion percentage too. He looked terrific those first six games and much more human thereafter.

 

How he is performing at the end of the year will mean more to me than how he performs at the beginning. A smallish dip would mean little or nothing. A significant one would tend to point towards a failure to adapt.

The biggest issue at the end of the day is this symbol in the standings: W/L
Improve the D and W/L gets real exciting

 

 

 

Agreed, it's the biggest issue and the most important stat. But it's a team stat, not a QB stat.

[Chandler#81]

 

...onus is on Dennison to design an offense that fits him....he is the right guy and I'm thinking this is TT's "make it or break it" year...........

 

I agree and look forward to this. I just can't see Tyrod excelling in the WCO when the standard was Montana. 1-3 step drops and fire? I haven't seen Tyrod do that once. Sure, Steve Young made the HOF scrambling from the WCO, but he was also deadly on the short throws. I WANT to see Taylor excel in this, but if not, it's a 'Break it' year.

[GunnerBill]

 

I agree and look forward to this. I just can't see Tyrod excelling in the WCO when the standard was Montana. 1-3 step drops and fire? I haven't seen Tyrod do that once. Sure, Steve Young made the HOF scrambling from the WCO, but he was also deadly on the short throws. I WANT to see Taylor excel in this, but if not, it's a 'Break it' year.

 

This is exactly my concern. Yes rolling Tyrod out seems like a good fit...... but the WCO that Kubiak and Dennison ran in Houston with Schaub had a LOT of shorter timing throws where the footwork and the release and the receiver's break all have to be on point. That is not Tyrod's strength.

[MAJBobby]

Sooo... how good do these things need to be for you?

 

You realize Taylor is already 14th in 3rd down % and 6th in RZ Passer Rating, right?

I think the fact that people are so dismissive of the 2017 QB draft class is kind of funny. Weren't three QBs drafted in the first round? Didn't all three QBs have their respective teams trade up to draft them? The bills had an opportunity to draft two of those three quarterbacks. They didn't. I understand that no one wants to see that as any kind of faith and Taylor because of the draft picks they acquired for next year. But if anything, it was a team demonstrating both faith in Taylor while also hedging their bets and understanding that the NFL is a win now league and Taylor isn't proven enough to hold onto after this year if he fails.

 

That doesn't mean anything other than the fact that all QBs fail at some point in their career mainly and largely if you're thinking about team success. Philip Rivers has been for years. Drew Brees. Andrew luck. Joe Flacco. Cam Newton.

 

But all of those guys are proven to varying degrees. Taylor hasn't built up the cache to be even just average this year and stick around. He's going to likely need a top 10-12 year to stick around.

 

Just watch next year turn into the same "week QB class" we had this year. Too funny

The QBs goong in the first is because of the value of the position. By all analysis of this draft prior to it shown it was weak. And next year right now looks very strong but could also flop as the season goes on as well as who declares and who doesnt could weaken it.

 

But by all people that look at this stuff professionally have stated that this class was very weak ala 2014 class

[Royale with Cheese]

http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/bills-open-camp-asking-familiar-question-tyrod-taylor-their-franchise-qb

 

 

 

While in Carolina for nineteen years, Brandon Beane saw first-hand what having a franchise quarterback can do for an NFL organization.

“It’s a quarterback league, I mean who are we kidding?,” the Bills new general manager said.

Prior to Newton’s arrival, the Panthers finished above .500 only once in five years. After selecting the Auburn product first-overall in 2011, Carolina was in the playoffs three years later, starting a run of three straight NFC South division titles. That matched the number of times they were division champs in their entire eighteen-year franchise history up to that point. Then in 2015, the Panthers finished the regular season 15-1, played in the Super Bowl, and Cam was walking around as the league’s MVP.

So Beane knows how important it is to have that franchise guy.

“If you look at the playoff teams, the consistent guys that at least qualify for the playoffs or are close every year, most of them have QBs. Most of them have a legit quarterback,” Beane said. “If you want to use the word franchise, whatever word you want to use, so I understand that. Cam in Carolina was, is, a franchise quarterback. If you’re a GM, you have to find a franchise quarterback. It obviously helps keep you on a consistent playing field if you have one, so I get that.”

Now Beane is tasked with finding out if Tyrod Taylor is the Bills’ franchise QB. Beane got a chance to see Taylor up close for the first time during OTAs and minicamp in June. He liked what he saw on and off the field.

“Well, it’s just the spring, but I’ll tell you this about Tyrod,” he said then. “I come in early to workout with some of the guys and he’s in here early. The guy does every single thing asked of him, above and beyond, and that’s what you’re looking for. I respect the heck out of what I’ve seen here the five or six weeks I’ve been here. I’m looking forward to watching him take this challenge on and see how it goes in camp, then obviously two weeks in that leads to games, and see how it progresses. I’ve watched him from afar on cross-film, but I did go back and watch some games last season, flipped through some of his throws. Some of it before I got here, some of it since I got here. I mean he’s got some tools. He wasn’t accidentally thrown into a starting role here, he’s earned his opportunities.”

The soon-to-be 28 year old Taylor came to Buffalo as a free agent prior to the 2015 season. He won the starting job that training camp and has been the team’s starting QB the past two seasons. But that was all under head coach Rex Ryan and GM Doug Whaley. Now, playing on a restructured contract that would allow the team to walk away at the end of the year and not cost much in dead money, Taylor is essentially on a one-year “prove it” deal. And he’s not playing for Ryan and Whaley anymore. He’s auditioning for Beane and new head coach Sean McDermott.

Regular season games are what will ultimately matter, but Beane has already been watching enough film on Taylor that he’s getting a good idea of what he likes and what areas he still needs to get better.

“First of all, in defense of him, the systems have changed a little bit,” the GM said. “He was in Baltimore (then) came up here. In a perfect world you can sit in one offensive scheme, similar coaches or the same coaches, and build upon it. When it has changed a few times, that makes it a little harder. Obviously, the things he’s done great are his feet. He’s made plays not only with his feet but his arm, and I think he’s been tough. I see that. He seems like he’s made smart decisions. I’m not saying he hasn’t made some that weren’t smart, but they all do that. To be in this league, whether its Tyrod or name the quarterback, you have to make plays consistently from the pocket. The quarterbacks that are succeeding year after year after year consistently make plays from the pocket. That’s what, whoever the franchise quarterback is going to be, that’s what he’ll have to do.”

So what exactly does Taylor have to do to convince the new Bills regime that he should be the quarterback beyond 2017? How will Beane know he’s found his man? What’s he looking for in a franchise QB?

“Obviously, you draw them up, from a physical standpoint, they look like Cam,” he said, referring to Newton in Carolina. “But how many are there like that? You want a guy, the stature, the height, you know, they're standing over, they're not worried about linemen in their face. It gives them the vision and all that. Arm strength.

“You obviously want to see quarterbacks live, but what's this guy's makeup? What's his leadership? Do guys rally behind him? I go back to Carolina. Jake Delhomme, one of the greatest leaders I've ever been around. He was undrafted. The guy willed himself to lead the team the years he was in Carolina. His intangibles were a 12 on a one to 10 scale. And that's how he overcame his athletic limitations…..you're looking for a lot of things, some of it physically we can all see. But a lot of it you can't necessarily see.”

[Kirby Jackson]

Good stuff from Beane on the position. Nothing groundbreaking or shocking but a pretty strong approach.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

But by all people that look at this stuff professionally have stated that this class was very weak ala 2014 class

 

 

That isn't true. There was a majority saying it was a weaker class.... but there are plenty of very well respected voices who disagreed.

[PromoTheRobot]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

[mead107]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

yup.

[GunnerBill]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

 

But a good defense will be a much bigger challenge against the Quarterbacks on this schedule. So the chances of winning games with Tyrod throwing for 200 yards are, I would say, much smaller. I'm not obsessing over pass yards v rush yards by the way..... I agree ultimately it is just "yards" and wins that matter, but I suspect even with an improved defense this slate of Quarterbacks will mean we end up in more shoot outs and having to throw more to catch up / keep pace.

[row_33]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

 

11-3 after the two losses to the Pats.

 

C'mon..............................................................................................

You are the chip B word at the weekly poker game?

[Big Gun]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

Defense was 16th in the league in points against.

 

As far a points go, that is dead nuts average.

[transplantbillsfan]

Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.

Are you trying to start something?

[San-O]

For me, if he is going to remain there are a few things that I need to see. Gross stats mean nothing at all to me. I care about 3rd down efficiency, RZ efficiency, TD to Int and a high yards per attempt. If those things happen the offense's will be rolling.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2016&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

[transplantbillsfan]

Defense was 16th in the league in points against.

 

As far a points go, that is dead nuts average.

The problem, ironically, is similar to the issue with Taylor. When the defense was good, they were quite good. Against the Bengals, the defense bailed out the offense the whole game. I think that's about the only time that happened all year. However, the lows of the defense were much lower than Taylor's lows. The Bills defense arguably single-handedly lost four games in 2016. When you allow 200 yard rushers, you are most certainly are not going to win. And the bills allowed and historic three of them, two of those to the same player. On top of that, for whatever you want to say about Taylor not playing well in the second half, the defense just had to be decent against the Raiders for us to win. But they weren't, they fell apart. I should probably throw the first Jets game and allowing Ryan Fitzpatrick a career game as the fifth, but the offense couldn't stay on the field despite scoring points and racking up yards.

 

Taylor had lows in 2016 for sure. Baltimore, the Bengals, most of the Pittsburgh game, 2nd half of the Raiders, etc. But his lows simply weren't as low as the bottom of the defensive lows.

[San-O]

TT. was sacked more than any QB in the NFL this past season. Fix that too.

[BuffaloHokie13]

TT. was sacked more than any QB in the NFL this past season. Fix that too.

Not saying this doesn't need to be fixed, but I think it's overstated. He was sacked 42 times last year. Luck, Dalton, and Wilson were all sacked 41 times last year. In 2015, Bortles was sacked 51 times. Rodgers 46, Wilson 45, ASmith 45, Tannehill 45, Stafford 44, Bridgewater 44.

 

Over the 2 year span Wilson, Bortles, Rodgers, and Stafford have all been sacked more than Tyrod. It's not a coincidence that all of those QBs but Stafford are also in the Top 6 for rushing yards over the same span.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

The QBs goong in the first is because of the value of the position. By all analysis of this draft prior to it shown it was weak. And next year right now looks very strong but could also flop as the season goes on as well as who declares and who doesnt could weaken it.

 

But by all people that look at this stuff professionally have stated that this class was very weak ala 2014 class

 

The draft is so different now than it used to be. You used to want to go as early in the draft as possible to get that huge bradford payday. Now you enter as early as possible to get to UFA a year beforehand.

TT. was sacked more than any QB in the NFL this past season. Fix that too.

 

 

Not saying this doesn't need to be fixed, but I think it's overstated. He was sacked 42 times last year. Luck, Dalton, and Wilson were all sacked 41 times last year. In 2015, Bortles was sacked 51 times. Rodgers 46, Wilson 45, ASmith 45, Tannehill 45, Stafford 44, Bridgewater 44.

 

Over the 2 year span Wilson, Bortles, Rodgers, and Stafford have all been sacked more than Tyrod. It's not a coincidence that all of those QBs but Stafford are also in the Top 6 for rushing yards over the same span.

 

We were 4th from the bottom in sacks allowed. SF, CLE, and LAR all allowed more sacks, they just had more QBs.

 

15th in yardage surrendered from those sacks.

Edited July 26, 2017 by dneveu

[San-O]

Not saying this doesn't need to be fixed, but I think it's overstated. He was sacked 42 times last year. Luck, Dalton, and Wilson were all sacked 41 times last year. In 2015, Bortles was sacked 51 times. Rodgers 46, Wilson 45, ASmith 45, Tannehill 45, Stafford 44, Bridgewater 44.

 

Over the 2 year span Wilson, Bortles, Rodgers, and Stafford have all been sacked more than Tyrod. It's not a coincidence that all of those QBs but Stafford are also in the Top 6 for rushing yards over the same span.

 

 

Yeah, but Dalton and Wilson had 100 more attempts than TT. Bortles had almost 200 MORE attempts than TT in 2016.

 

TT was sacked every 10 attempts last year: that's Rob Johnson territory I think.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

 

Yeah, but Dalton and Wilson had 100 more attempts than TT. Bortles had almost 200 MORE attempts than TT in 2016.

 

TT was sacked every 10 attempts last year: that's Rob Johnson territory I think.

Weird. His sack % is 8.8, not 10. Goff and Kaep were higher last year.

 

In 2015, his sack % was 8.7. Kaep, Mariota, Bridgewater, and ASmith were all equal or higher.

 

Again, it's fine to say it needs to improve, but why embellish? The stats are readily available.

[KellyToughII]

TT is NOT a franchise QB. I am praying our front office and HC are going to use our two 1st next year to finally draft a guy with the talent to hopefully be our Franchise guy

[San-O]

Weird. His sack % is 8.8, not 10. Goff and Kaep were higher last year.

 

In 2015, his sack % was 8.7. Kaep, Mariota, Bridgewater, and ASmith were all equal or higher.

 

Again, it's fine to say it needs to improve, but why embellish? The stats are readily available.

 

 

Weird: ? 432 attempts / 42 sacks = 10.38 I hope!

 

Team sacks has 8.8.

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/sacked-percentage/2016/

Edited July 26, 2017 by San-O