BarleyNY Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) ...........and it does t look good for Deshaun Watson Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine: 60 - Mahomes 59 - Webb 56 - Kizer 55 - Trubisky, Evans 53 - Peterman, Kaaya 49 - Watson https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/840334987958329346 For those unaware of the standards, 55 is the generally accepted minimum. Watson's 49 is the equivalent of a CB running a 5.2 in the 40. Either something was wrong with him (or the measurement) at the Combine or he's going to plummet in the draft. Edited March 11, 2017 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 So mahomes is the guy we want breaking fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Stay Away FROM Watson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Watson will never make it in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Wow,I'm surprised. Watching him it looks like he has decent zip on the ball,when he wants to.Also didn't realize Webb threw that hard. Thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I mentioned this on the Shoutbox but my scouting friend told me that Watson threw a flutter ball, not a tight spiral. But if you read online scouting "reports" they say the opposite. So mahomes is the guy we want breaking fingers. One scout at the combine said Mahomes had the best arm since Favre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Obviously you want a guy who can throw a dart into a tight spot, but that's only a piece of the puzzle. Accuracy, mobility, vision, blah blah blah. With that being said I wouldn't take any of this email guys with our pick as it stands. Edited March 11, 2017 by RaoulDuke79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Does this actually matter or is this just another number that people pretend is more important than it really is? What does the game tape tell us? That's what I care about more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Interesting chart. It shows how velocity numbers correlate to QB success. It's definitely a big deal... Sorry I don't know how to make the image bigger. You have to click on it to see it. Edited March 11, 2017 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Does this actually matter or is this just another number that people pretend is more important than it really is? What does the game tape tell us? That's what I care about more than anything. It's not the only thing to look at. But if you look at the numbers almost no QB in the NFL has been good that was below 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 ...........and it does t look good for Deshaun Watson Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine: 60 - Mahomes 59 - Webb 56 - Kizer 55 - Trubisky, Evans 53 - Peterman, Kaaya 49 - Watson https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/840334987958329346 For those unaware of the standards, 55 is the generally accepted minimum. Watson's 49 is the equivalent of a CB running a 5.2 in the 40. Either something was wrong with him (or the measurement) at the Combine or he's going to plummet in the draft. Ive been telling people I don't think he will get drafted in the first round. Especially with all the FA activity, I really think 2 QB's at most go in the first and Trubisky is who I think goes first followed by either Kizer or Mahomes depending on who the team picking likes most. Now with this news, I think its a lock that Watson falls to at least round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Damn Mahomes was bringing it. It doesn't mean anything on its own, but that's a fastball for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Tyrod's was 50mph at the combine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Tyrod's was 50mph at the combine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Interesting. Tyron threw 50 but I wonder if he somehow throws harder now? Here is a good analysis on QB velocities since '08 http://rotoviz.com/2016/04/does-ball-velocity-tell-us-anything-about-qb-success-rates/?hvid=3XXMPT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Mike "Rocket Arm" Glennon was at 49! I wonder what Peyton was throwing at the end of his career, low 40s? Lotsa ****ty Qbs at the top too. Wouldn't put too much into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 If we get the chance to draft Mahomes & don't - I'll be p!ssed! Go Bills!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonbreath123 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 So lets all throw the reports that watson stole the show at the combine in the trash bin and believe a subjective test that Watson is a limp wristed QB not worthy of a high draft pick. Most people think that Tyrod Taylor has ample arm strength and he scored a 50 on the same test vs Watson at 49. I was at the BCS championship game in Tampa and focused on Watson the entire game. What I saw is a fearless leader who his teammates look up to, hangs in the pocket, throws into tight spots, has zip on the long ball, and pays the price to win games. Watson lit up Bama for 21 pts in the 4th quarter when they knew he had to pass. His college coach called him the Michael Jordan of football yet we see posters raving about the fastballs that combine QBs throw vs air. I can only imagine if Tyrod was throwing to the open WR vs Bama with one second left in the game and tossing it into the ground because he cant see wide open receivers that are 5 yards away from him. Watson is the real deal and thrives on the pressure. He has plenty of arm strength to spare (eye test) and disregard a cherry picked test that he probably did not even care about or trained for as hes coming off a championship win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Does this actually matter or is this just another number that people pretend is more important than it really is? What does the game tape tell us? That's what I care about more than anything. The reality is that if it's a true indication of his arm strength, then it's pretty damn close to over for him as far as the NFL. If it's due to correctable mechanics, injury or some other freak thing then that's not a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) ...........and it does t look good for Deshaun Watson Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine: 60 - Mahomes 59 - Webb 56 - Kizer 55 - Trubisky, Evans 53 - Peterman, Kaaya 49 - Watson https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/840334987958329346 For those unaware of the standards, 55 is the generally accepted minimum. Watson's 49 is the equivalent of a CB running a 5.2 in the 40. Either something was wrong with him (or the measurement) at the Combine or he's going to plummet in the draft. Tyrod Taylor threw a 50, guess we better sign and trade http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ These are about as telling as hand length. Edited March 11, 2017 by BuffaloBillsGospel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Arm looks fine on tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) This is comparable to measuring a pitchers velocity in the bullpen. Velocity during a game is much more important and only really matters on certain throws. The fact that Flacco was only measured at 55 mph tells me all I need to know about these measurements. Flacco probably throws with most velocity of any QB since Elway and Favre. Edited March 11, 2017 by BuffaloRebound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) So lets all throw the reports that watson stole the show at the combine in the trash bin and believe a subjective test that Watson is a limp wristed QB not worthy of a high draft pick. Most people think that Tyrod Taylor has ample arm strength and he scored a 50 on the same test vs Watson at 49. I was at the BCS championship game in Tampa and focused on Watson the entire game. What I saw is a fearless leader who his teammates look up to, hangs in the pocket, throws into tight spots, has zip on the long ball, and pays the price to win games. Watson lit up Bama for 21 pts in the 4th quarter when they knew he had to pass. His college coach called him the Michael Jordan of football yet we see posters raving about the fastballs that combine QBs throw vs air. I can only imagine if Tyrod was throwing to the open WR vs Bama with one second left in the game and tossing it into the ground because he cant see wide open receivers that are 5 yards away from him. Watson is the real deal and thrives on the pressure. He has plenty of arm strength to spare (eye test) and disregard a cherry picked test that he probably did not even care about or trained for as hes coming off a championship win.Let me help you here: Reports that Watson stole the show at the combine: subjective. Measured ball velocity: objective. Edited March 11, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 If 55 is the accepted minimum it looks like a lot of guys struggle to hit that just from what I've read in this thread. What's the ideal #? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Watson will never make it in the NFL He'll make it well before Mahomes does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 This is comparable to measuring a pitchers velocity in the bullpen. Velocity during a game is much more important and only really matters on certain throws. The fact that Flacco was only measured at 55 mph tells me all I need to know about these measurements. Flacco probably throws with most velocity of any QB since Elway and Favre. This is a good point. The last time the ravens played here flacco threw a rainbow that went further than any ball I have seen thrown in 30+ years of going to games in our stadium. It was the play on which Aaron Williams made a shoestring, touchdown-saving tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Does this actually matter or is this just another number that people pretend is more important than it really is? What does the game tape tell us? That's what I care about more than anything. Game tape is important, but 49 is flat out awful for an nfl qb. It's the equivalent of a college d1 pitcher who can fool people with an 83 mph-tops fastball at that level but who gets freaking rocked in the pros. Interesting. Tyron threw 50 but I wonder if he somehow throws harder now? Here is a good analysis on QB velocities since '08 http://rotoviz.com/2016/04/does-ball-velocity-tell-us-anything-about-qb-success-rates/?hvid=3XXMPT It can be deceiving. Qbs don't train for velocity like all pitchers do from high school onward. As a consequence it can be improved with mechanics/training. Brady wasn't throwing bullets early on, but he trained and got better. Edited March 11, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 He'll make it well before Mahomes does. If you like flutter balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) If you like flutter balls. Be careful -- i'm not saying draft the guy, but before we pass judgment it's important to know what sort of velocity training he got (if any) at clemson and HS. Veloicty training improved my 17 year old son's fastball by a few mph over the last year. Edited March 11, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Be careful -- i'm not saying draft the guy, but before we pass judgment it's important to know what sort of velocity training he got (if any) at clemson and HS. Veloicty training improved my son's fastball by a few mph over the last year. Watson throws a flutter ball. When you can't throw a tight spiral in the NFL you have a high chance at failure. Edited March 11, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 "Tape".... Geez, how many decades need to go by before stop referring to video as this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Watson throws a flutter ball. When you can't throw a tight spiral in the NFL you have a high chance at failure. I'll repeat what I said: what sort of training did he ever get? He was a grrat athlete with great wrs playing against zone defenses every week. Do you think he really worked on his fastball? I guarantee you taylor throws a lot higher than 50 now, and i would bet he received almost no fastball training at VT. He clearly has a strong arm now whatever his flaws might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I'll repeat what I said: what sort of training did he ever get? He was a grrat athlete with great wrs playing against zone defenses every week. Do you think he really worked on his fastball? I guarantee you taylor throws a lot higher than 50 now, and i would bet he received almost no fastball training at VT. He clearly has a strong arm now whatever his flaws might be. Velocity and arm strength are just one component. But looking back at the last 5 drafts I don't see one success from a QB in the NFL with a velocity under 55 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I also remember people worried about how often Watkins caught the ball behind the line for Clemson.... Thinge change in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Damn Mahomes was bringing it. It doesn't mean anything on its own, but that's a fastball for sure. Mahomes Sr. had a hell of a fastball too when the Twins drafted him. Of course, he couldn't locate that fastball worth a damn ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Who knows what any of this means? I love to know what Tom Brady or Joe Montana velocity was when they started in the NFL? All I know is Tyrod Taylor throws an excellent deep ball, considering the wind in Buffalo. Mahomes maybe long gone by 44? Edited March 11, 2017 by LABILLBACKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Tyrod Taylor threw a 50, guess we better sign and trade http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ These are about as telling as hand length. And when is the hand size table going to be available? Because that's always been my go-to number since it correlates with, umm, lack of success at quarterbacking or negatively correlates with presidential campaign success. Or maybe both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Who knows what any of this means? I love to know what Tom Brady or Joe Montana velocity was when they started in the NFL? All I know is Tyrod Taylor throws an excellent deep ball, considering the wind in Buffalo. Mahomes maybe long gone by 44?as I learned years ago from a poster far more learned about QB scouting than myself, the deep ball is no way to analyze arm strength. Any QB in the league can throw the ball the required 30-40 yards. The best test is whether he can drive it on a line on a 25 yard out pattern from the far hashmark, not something I remember Tyrod doing very often. That could just be up to my memory, don't know for sure. I do remember him sailing a number of outs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 The more i read about this nonsense the more i begin to believe that the combine is nothing more than a distraction/circus to hide all of the illegal tampering/backhanded deals that GMs do during the dog and pony show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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