Sprained knee on EJ

[bisonbrigade]

1. Josh Freeman: He's looking for work and would give theBills a guy who could start in Week 6. Freeman's a streaky passer with accuracy issues, but his arm is a rocket.

2. Vince Young: His preseason play with the Packers gave Green Bay a spark. Young's skill set would allow Buffalo to run its offense, and people forget he owns a 31-19 record as a starter.

3. Thaddeus Lewis: He currently sits on Buffalo's practice squad. Lewis started a game for the Browns last season and wasn't a disaster. He's a roster option if Buffalo wants to take one more look at Tuel.

4. Matt Leinart: He was a nightmare with the Bills in August, and we don't expect that to change. Leinart's on this list because Marrone's familiar with him, not because he's worth another look.

5. David Carr: A decidedly dull option, but a veteran who could serve as a patch. A very boring patch.

[Kipers Hair]

I'm pretty certain Tuel would tank. Not because I'm a Bills fan. I'm pretty certain ANY third or fourth round good prospect would tank, let alone an UDFA who wasn't good in college and got benched as a senior. I'm rather optimistic for a Bills fan in fact. I like Whaley and Marrone but I also thought before that Tuel was a huge mistake, as well as Byrd and the LG and backup CB situation.

 

As far as a FA 2014 goes, you don't think that a playoff team, or near playoffs with a killer defense isn't a factor in a FA's decision versus a 5-11 team that was out of the hunt by week 8? I surely do. A lot of FAs wanted nothing to do with the Bills this year, and in years past, regardless of our pursuit in them.

As a fan, I agree on Tuel's shortcomings and would have rather had plan C available last night, but again, if Marrone is a man of conviction like I believe him to be, I see him trying to coach up Tuel for the next game. Unfortunate, but expected. As to recruiting, as it stood, I think we were/are a 6 win team at best and frankly, (fingers crossed), if EJ returns in 5 weeks, he will have not had to suffer through a rough 4 weeks coming up where I do not believe we would have won a game. From what I see - the Bills will have no problem recruiting the right guys for the organization.

[SactoBillFan]

It appears to me that there is a lot of knee jerk reactions going on here. Bills will probably pick up a some serviceable QB but there is no guarantee he would be ready for the Bengals game. 10 days optimistically speaking EJ might be on the fast track. But IMO the Bills will start Tuel in the Bengals game with whoever they pick up backing him up. I'm hoping that EJ is ready for the fish game, doubtful though.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

As a fan, I agree on Tuel's shortcomings and would have rather had plan C available last night, but again, if Marrone is a man of conviction like I believe him to be, I see him trying to coach up Tuel for the next game. Unfortunate, but expected. As to recruiting, as it stood, I think we were/are a 6 win team at best and frankly, (fingers crossed), if EJ returns in 5 weeks, he will have not had to suffer through a rough 4 weeks coming up where I do not believe we would have won a game. From what I see - the Bills will have no problem recruiting the right guys for the organization.

Situations change. Good and even great coaches and GMs make mistakes on players all the time. Marrone could have genuinely believed that he could coach up Tuel in a regular season game if he had to, and that it was worth the risk to not bring in a vet backup because we were decimated at other positions due to injury, and then after one or two series last night say to himself, "Uh oh, he's nowhere near ready for this!" It makes him wrong on this one thing, not an idiot, incompetent or not a man of his word.

 

Also, if he believed in Tuel, he would have named him the starter for the Bengals game, and not clearly left open the chance a new guy would come in and become the starter.

[PearlHowardman]

If EJ is out only for a "few weeks" why are we rushing out to find a new QB?

 

I'm thinking the 6-8 week time frame is more accurate.

[habes1280]

Is Nassib on Giants roster or PS? He knows the system, just a thought.

 

No, he's not on the practice squad. It would require a trade. That said, I really think this would be the best possible option. I'm not worried about the potential egg on the face of the front office; bringing in a promising young QB who knows the system and the terminology for a 3rd round pick makes a lot of sense. He'd know he is the backup, and he's had some time to get over the snub-- and after a poor preseason, the Bills might be able to land him with a 4th or a 5th. This would secure the QB and backup position for the foreseeable future, and, in my opinion, would give us the best opportunity to win in the short term. Bringing in a veteran QB with no knowledge of our gimmicks would be pretty tough to overcome.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If EJ is out only for a "few weeks" why are we rushing out to find a new QB?

 

I'm thinking the 6-8 week time frame is more accurate.

 

Er, because we have Tuel and <crickets>?

[PearlHowardman]

Er, because we have Tuel and <crickets>?

 

It's been like that since week one.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

No, he's not on the practice squad. It would require a trade. That said, I really think this would be the best possible option. I'm not worried about the potential egg on the face of the front office; bringing in a promising young QB who knows the system and the terminology for a 3rd round pick makes a lot of sense. He'd know he is the backup, and he's had some time to get over the snub-- and after a poor preseason, the Bills might be able to land him with a 4th or a 5th. This would secure the QB and backup position for the foreseeable future, and, in my opinion, would give us the best opportunity to win in the short term. Bringing in a veteran QB with no knowledge of our gimmicks would be pretty tough to overcome.

 

A young QB's ability to read and react to the NFL D is critical, and is one of the things that takes time to develop. It is probably of more importance than "knowledge of our gimmicks". We control our game plan, and the OC can always put in a simplified version tailored to what the new QB has had time to assimilate. Thus, an NFL-quality vet has the advantage over a raw rookie - almost always.

 

Curious about why you feel Nassib is "our best opportunity to win" after you acknowledge that "a poor preseason" has dropped his perceived value. If he played poorly in preseason against backups and 3rd stringers, why would you think he can win in the NFL against the best right now?

 

It's been like that since week one.

 

No, since week 1 we've had Manuel and Tuel (2 QB)

Now we have Tuel and ____________, (1 QB) thus the desire to bring in another

 

That doesn't necessarily indicate Manuel is considered to be out for 8 weeks. No HC wants to be one hard sack away from putting in an "emergency QB".

 

Who we bring in and on what terms will be a lot more telling.

[Maury Ballstein]

I had a feeling I'd be watching Tool vs the saints when I make the trip to New Orleans. Sigh.

 

Brutal.....that's a tough beat

 

I once bought wizards tickets a month in advance to watch MJ and of course he got hurt before that game.

[habes1280]

A young QB's ability to read and react to the NFL D is critical, and is one of the things that takes time to develop. It is probably of more importance than "knowledge of our gimmicks". We control our game plan, and the OC can always put in a simplified version tailored to what the new QB has had time to assimilate. Thus, an NFL-quality vet has the advantage over a raw rookie - almost always.

 

Curious about why you feel Nassib is "our best opportunity to win" after you acknowledge that "a poor preseason" has dropped his perceived value. If he played poorly in preseason against backups and 3rd stringers, why would you think he can win in the NFL against the best right now?

 

Good question, and I take your point about the value of NFL experience. My reasoning is that, to THIS staff, the SYSTEM is more important than X's and O's. I don't agree with their logic, mind you, nor do I like their gimmicks, but I think Hackett showed his own "rookie-ness" last night when he was forced to adapt to a QB that couldn't execute his gameplan. He (Hackett) needed to adapt on the fly and he couldn't do it. He was lost, and at times, our play-calling looked desperate (a flea-flicker from our own endzone with only one WR in the route-tree?), even BEFORE the game was out of hand.

 

I don't trust Nassib's ability to read and diagnose defenses at the level of Josh Freeman, or for that matter, of David Carr; but I do trust his ability to run our offense, which, quite frankly, is the only offense that I think Hackett is capable of calling.

 

There are better QBs out there, but I don't think our OC is versatile enough, at this stage in his career, to modify our offense to suit their strengths, or to effectively simplify it enough to make us competitive. Nassib would require very little adaptation, and in our circumstances, I think that gives us our best chance to win.

[Orton's Arm]

Maybe the Tuel Time folks will shut up now.

 

Tuel played poorly, no question. But it's also inarguable that Tuel's supporting cast was completely dominated by the Browns' defense. I'd like to see how he does after practicing with the starting WRs, and with his supporting cast looking maybe a little more credible than it did against the Browns.

[Kirby Jackson]

Tuel does have a chance to develop into a serviceable backup (nothing more) in time. However, at this point he is just not capable of running an NFL offense. The options out there are limited. Obviously Freeman tops the list, after that I like VY and then Pat White followed by David Carr.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

1. Josh Freeman: He's looking for work and would give theBills a guy who could start in Week 6. Freeman's a streaky passer with accuracy issues, but his arm is a rocket.

2. Vince Young: His preseason play with the Packers gave Green Bay a spark. Young's skill set would allow Buffalo to run its offense, and people forget he owns a 31-19 record as a starter.

3. Thaddeus Lewis: He currently sits on Buffalo's practice squad. Lewis started a game for the Browns last season and wasn't a disaster. He's a roster option if Buffalo wants to take one more look at Tuel.

4. Matt Leinart: He was a nightmare with the Bills in August, and we don't expect that to change. Leinart's on this list because Marrone's familiar with him, not because he's worth another look.

5. David Carr: A decidedly dull option, but a veteran who could serve as a patch. A very boring patch.

 

I would rather take my chance with Tuel than any of those guys.

 

Maybe sign Leinart as the back-up; I actually liked what I saw from him in his limited pre-season action. He got no help from his receivers, who dropped several passes, including a TD, if I recall.

[YoloinOhio]

I would rather take my chance with Tuel than any of those guys.

 

Maybe sign Leinart as the back-up; I actually liked what I saw from him in his limited pre-season action. He got no help from his receivers, who dropped several passes, including a TD, if I recall.

I don't know how good Leinart is/could be, but I do agree it is not fair to judge his performance on having been here about 3 days before the game, having to learn the offense and very few reps and practice with the WRs. He wasn't even in any team's training camp. I am sure he was working out some on his own, but that doesn't compare to having been with a team for several weeks in camp. Not sure what the Bills expected him to come in and do.

 

Good question, and I take your point about the value of NFL experience. My reasoning is that, to THIS staff, the SYSTEM is more important than X's and O's. I don't agree with their logic, mind you, nor do I like their gimmicks, but I think Hackett showed his own "rookie-ness" last night when he was forced to adapt to a QB that couldn't execute his gameplan. He (Hackett) needed to adapt on the fly and he couldn't do it. He was lost, and at times, our play-calling looked desperate (a flea-flicker from our own endzone with only one WR in the route-tree?), even BEFORE the game was out of hand.

 

I don't trust Nassib's ability to read and diagnose defenses at the level of Josh Freeman, or for that matter, of David Carr; but I do trust his ability to run our offense, which, quite frankly, is the only offense that I think Hackett is capable of calling.

 

There are better QBs out there, but I don't think our OC is versatile enough, at this stage in his career, to modify our offense to suit their strengths, or to effectively simplify it enough to make us competitive. Nassib would require very little adaptation, and in our circumstances, I think that gives us our best chance to win.

In this "system" the QB needs to know how to hand off to Spiller, hand off to Freddy, and occasionally run play action on 3rd down. I don't think we need to go to Ryan Nassib to perfect that.

[Max997]

I'm sure it's been mentioned but that injury is purely on EJ as he should have gone out of bounds after getting the first

 

The Bills as a team don't seem to know how to avoid the wrong hit

[YoloinOhio]

I'm sure it's been mentioned but that injury is purely on EJ as he should have gone out of bounds after getting the first

 

The Bills as a team don't seem to know how to avoid the wrong hit

While I agree that he needs to do that, Marrone has admitted the same... we have seen other young, mobile, competitive QBs do this. RG3 is most recent. I also remember Sanchez doing it and they brought in one of the Yankees to teach him how to slide? They learn the hard way. He was trying to get extra yards. They are trying to make something happen. They want to win. I completely understand why they do it in the heat of the moment, all they are thinking about is getting more yards, and scoring. If they had time to stop and think, they would never do it. I have seen him actually slide a lot in other games. It isn't an excuse - but it is a reason. I am sure he learned his lesson, he is going to lose maybe 1/2 of his rookie season.

[Mickey]

For what it is worth, here are the QB's available from other teams' practice squads, call it the parade of horribles:

 

Gregg McElroy - Cinn.

Matt Scott - Jacksonville

Chandler Harnish - Indianapolis

Rusty Smith - Tenn.

Tyler Wilson - Oak.

Alex Tanney - Dallas

Scott Tolzien - GB

Seth Doege - Atlanta

Ryan Griffin - NO

[YoloinOhio]

For what it is worth, here are the QB's available from other teams' practice squads, call it the parade of horribles:

 

Gregg McElroy - Cinn.

Matt Scott - Jacksonville

Chandler Harnish - Indianapolis

Rusty Smith - Tenn.

Tyler Wilson - Oak.

Alex Tanney - Dallas

Scott Tolzien - GB

Seth Doege - Atlanta

Ryan Griffin - NO

Never heard of half of these guys... but on the other hand, they are prob better than Tuel. Seriously though, Tyler Wilson was a 4th rd pick. He was thought of very highly going into the draft. I think the Raiders couldn't keep him because their OL is so rough they need a running QB (Pryor) and they can't cut Flynn because of the salary cap hit, so they were stuck. Edited October 4, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[papazoid]

E J will not be back until after the BYE week.

 

the bye week is in 7 weeks.

[Bangarang]

E J will not be back until after the BYE week.

 

the bye week is in 7 weeks.

 

Source?

[Donald Duck]

Trade for Ryan Nassib

[Bill from NYC]

Source?

 

I just heard he will possibly be out 8 weeks on Sirius.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

I just heard he will possibly be out 8 weeks on Sirius.

 

This is complete speculation. The Bills/Marrone gave no timetable and I highly doubt the Bills medical staff leaked a timetable. I said this a few pages back but this is reporters asking "sources" for their opinion on average recovery times. RGIII had the same injury and came back after 2, whether he should have or not is up for debate. Most reporters are saying 4 weeks, but could be 6-8. Again, that's average recovery times... Which a pretty varied.

 

Truth is, as Marrone said, they have to wait til the swelling comes down, in a week, to get a timetable. He's a young kid, and was on the early timetable with his other knee, so I'd say I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be on that timetable now. I' think he'll be able to play in 2 weeks, but the Bills will be cautious and wait 3.

 

EDIT: Jason LaCanfora just did an interview and said 2-4 weeks.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Wayne Cubed

[buffaloboyinATL]

I am hearing 6-10 weeks is what they suspect but will know more today (can't reveal the source)

I hate the news but I like your source. Thanks for sharing.

[justnzane]

Guys, I partially tore my LCL as a track athlete, and I was back in 6 weeks and 100% in 9 weeks. The LCL is a stabilizer more than a high demand ligament, and you don't put the same level of strain on it as the ACL or MCL. While it is a VERY painful injury, it is recoverable. To put that in comparison EJ's sprain, the time table should be closer to 2-6 weeks depending on the level of swelling. With most likely him being back before Halloween, when you consider that he was walking and biking at the game Thursday night.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I am hearing 6-10 weeks is what they suspect but will know more today (can't reveal the source)

 

That would be at the long end for a LCL/MCL Grade 1 or 2 sprain.

The "textbook" prognosis is 3-8 weeks for ordinary folks fitting in treatments around school/work/life.

For a pro athlete who can focus on the treatment and who will get the best treatment, 10 weeks sounds awfully long.

 

If it's a Grade 3 sprain (tear) and needs surgery, 10 weeks would be too short

[Chris in Syracuse]

No one will know anything until after the swelling goes down in a week. Everything else is pure speculation. I trust EJ will get 24hr treatment and he is very young and strong. QB is not as demanding as cb, wr, or rb, so, I hope sooner rather than later but, no one can say anything right now with the slightest sense of reliability . Just wait like everyone else and hope for the best.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Chris in Syracuse

[reddogblitz]

Tuel played poorly, no question. But it's also inarguable that Tuel's supporting cast was completely dominated by the Browns' defense. I'd like to see how he does after practicing with the starting WRs, and with his supporting cast looking maybe a little more credible than it did against the Browns.

I saw open WRs that Tuel missed. And then of course there was the long bomb that TJ dropped. But really, he stunk and looked like a scared rabbit. I don't ever want to see him play another down for the Bills.

 

If we start him against the Bungles, one thing you can count on, is the Bungles will blitz the peejeebers out of him like the Clowns did. He'll have no time. The run game won't be as effective either with 8 or 9 guys in the box. Expect mass quantities of 3 and outs like we did Thursday night and in the Washington pre season game leaving our D on the field time and time again. They will wear down and add in a pick 6 or two and we could easily lose 42 -0.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

 

Go BILLS !!

Edited October 6, 2013 by reddogblitz

[nucci]

Trade for Ryan Nassib

Why?

 

I just heard he will possibly be out 8 weeks on Sirius.

It's been reported 4-8 so it's possible.

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if anyone heard Fred Jackson's interview this morning on WGR, but he said this is the same injury he had early last year and he missed 2 weeks. He said he thinks EJ's might be slightly more severe, but he thinks he could be back on the early side of the projected time frame because it is an injury you can play with at 80 percent.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisBrownBills

EJ update http://wp.me/plmrg-8QN

[Wayne Cubed]

https://twitter.com/ChrisBrownBills'>https://twitter.com/ChrisBrownBills

Marrone on EJ Manuel: "He's ahead of schedule. The report today was encouraging" #Bills

 

 

https://twitter.com/ChrisBrownBills

Marrone: EJ Manuel has yet to begin rehab. Will start on-field work tomorrow, which should yield a better idea of timeline for return.

 

 

Looks like it could be 3 weeks. Depending on QB play, he can take his time.

[K-9]

Encouraging news. EJ can't get back soon enough.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Encouraging news. EJ can't get back soon enough.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Indeed. I will say that I like the idea of Lewis backing him up though...he can make some plays.

[Bangarang]

 

 

Indeed. I will say that I like the idea of Lewis backing him up though...he can make some plays.

 

Thad can be a capable backup for a long time. I like it.

[zow2]

For what it is worth, here are the QB's available from other teams' practice squads, call it the parade of horribles:

 

Gregg McElroy - Cinn.

Matt Scott - Jacksonville

Chandler Harnish - Indianapolis

Rusty Smith - Tenn.

Tyler Wilson - Oak.

Alex Tanney - Dallas

Scott Tolzien - GB

Seth Doege - Atlanta

Ryan Griffin - NO

 

Whatever happened to the Miami of Ohio guy in Denver,,,,Dysert??

[Peter]

Whatever happened to the Miami of Ohio guy in Denver,,,,Dysert??

He appears to be on Denver's roster according to Wiki.

[26CornerBlitz]

@buffalobills

Happy Tuesday, #Bills fans. EJ Manuel begins rehab today http://ow.ly/25mhmx

[chris heff]

@buffalobills

Happy Tuesday, #Bills fans. EJ Manuel begins rehab today http://ow.ly/25mhmx

If this is true then it sounds like a Grade 1 sprain, which means EJ could be back by the KC game.