J T O'Sullivan's The QB School

[JESSEFEFFER]

If you have predraft media coverage fatigue and 3 months is enough time for your post playoff loss soul to recover, J T has dropped his review of Josh's playoff loss performance.  These are always informative and well done, imo.  

 

The QB School--JA17 and the playoff loss to the Chiefs

[GoBills808]

Just watched it

 

Calls out diggs multiple times for effort for all the 'he just wants to win' crowd

[Mikie2times]

Will watch it again. Really great analysis. He liked the shot to Shakir vs going to Diggs on the highly debated 2nd down play. Called out a potential bad read by multiple players on the 1st down run play. I didn't realize how much real estate Allen likely had if that is a read option and he pulls the ball out. He might have scored. Also discussed the 3rd down, Shakir was open on the left side for what likely is a first down. Allen didn't look that way. He was drooling over Josh's playmaking ability. Riding Diggs hard. Called him out several times for lack of effort and finishing routes. You see it. Lazy routes, rounded, not at the distances needed. 

 

Josh is one of the most insane playmakers in NFL history and his out of structure game is at a level few players have ever seen. Something to be said for boring, repeatable, drop back and throws. Brady was the king of this. Structured stuff is what Josh needs to keep improving on. I think Brady had him going in the right direction with that last year. Seems to do much better when we try and establish the run and work in the shorter designed passes as we did vs KC. 

 

Really worth the watch. 

[MJS]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Just watched it

 

Calls out diggs multiple times for effort for all the 'he just wants to win' crowd

Yeah, I've made comments about his effort and I always have a ton of people saying "all receivers do that sometimes". I think that is bull. Diggs was clearly checked out mentally before leaving.

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yeah, I've made comments about his effort and I always have a ton of people saying "all receivers do that sometimes". I think that is bull. Diggs was clearly checked out mentally before leaving.

Looking that wa

 

Luckily that's Houstons problem now

 

Concerns re route design and progressions still remain tho imo

[Comebackkid]

mind boggling play calling at times still.

[MrEpsYtown]

JT knows his stuff and he was a Saint, so he would be very familiar with the playbook. It’s all E-P staples like juke, dagger, hoss etc. All good stuff. 

[thenorthremembers]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Just watched it

 

Calls out diggs multiple times for effort for all the 'he just wants to win' crowd

Anyone watching Diggs last year not having this take, A.  Doesn't know football or B. Had blind love for Diggs.

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

8 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

If you have predraft media coverage fatigue and 3 months is enough time for your post playoff loss soul to recover, J T has dropped his review of Josh's playoff loss performance.  These are always informative and well done, imo.  

 

The QB School--JA17 and the playoff loss to the Chiefs

 

I'll be honest, I almost ignored this video because I initially read it as "Jerry O'Sullivan," and I couldn't imagine wasting more than 5 seconds watching that deflated satchel of bones appear on screen, and listening to him talk bad about the Bills. I'm just glad he's crawled off into insignificance.

 

Thanks for the share, in retrospect. Good insights!

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Just watched it

Calls out diggs multiple times for effort for all the 'he just wants to win' crowd

 

@Hokieman-ol7qh

4 hours ago

"  I can't get enough of the snarky commentary... "how bout your boy down here to the bottom throwing up the mailbox double covered"... lol  "

 

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

If you have predraft media coverage fatigue and 3 months is enough time for your post playoff loss soul to recover, J T has dropped his review of Josh's playoff loss performance.  These are always informative and well done, imo.  

 

The QB School--JA17 and the playoff loss to the Chiefs

 

Great find, thanks!  JT O'Sullivan always worth watching.  For those unfamiliar, O'Sullivan had a 12 year career as a journeyman QB with, I think, 10 or 12 teams.  He was kind of the Nathan Peterman of his day, a guy who must have been "catnip for coaches" but couldn't get it done at the NFL level on the field, except he did start 8 games for SF 6 years into his journey (and threw more picks than TDs).  Subscribe, you won't regret it.

 

On the just-missed-the-catch to Sherfield on 3rd and 12 38:12  minutes into the video...O'Sullivan spends a long time painting the throw to Shakir in the middle as the better choice.  I don't see it.  Where's someone who knows their shite like @HoofHearted to put me straight?   2 deep safeties, one takes Diggs, one takes Shakir, and Sherfield is the correct read.  Sherfield gets his hands on it.  There is no reason that shouldn't have been a catch: a high degree of difficulty catch, but a catch.

 

The next play he shows is the missed catch by Diggs.  Yes, Diggs could and should have caught that if he's HIM.  O'Sullivan points out, though, that Allen had a receiver (I think it's Shakir) "wide-ass open" in the middle of the field.  Allen showed "his brother" some love, and it wasn't returned.

 

 

Edited April 21 by Beck Water

[fergie's ire]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, I've made comments about his effort and I always have a ton of people saying "all receivers do that sometimes". I think that is bull. Diggs was clearly checked out mentally before leaving.

Yeah, he clearly seemed off.  His will to grab contested balls just wasn't there in the second half of the season.  I had thought there was something physically wrong with him but maybe it was mentally checked out.  I'm actually one who really liked Diggs...and makes me wonder exactly what went wrong between him and the team.

[Warcodered]

45 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Great find, thanks!  JT O'Sullivan always worth watching.  For those unfamiliar, O'Sullivan had a 12 year career as a journeyman QB with, I think, 10 or 12 teams.  He was kind of the Nathan Peterman of his day, a guy who must have been "catnip for coaches" but couldn't get it done at the NFL level on the field, except he did start 8 games for SF 6 years into his journey (and threw more picks than TDs).  Subscribe, you won't regret it.

 

On the just-missed-the-catch to Sherfield on 3rd and 12 38:12  minutes into the video...O'Sullivan spends a long time painting the throw to Shakir in the middle as the better choice.  I don't see it.  Where's someone who knows their shite like @HoofHearted to put me straight?   2 deep safeties, one takes Diggs, one takes Shakir, and Sherfield is the correct read.  Sherfield gets his hands on it.  There is no reason that shouldn't have been a catch: a high degree of difficulty catch, but a catch.

 

The next play he shows is the missed catch by Diggs.  Yes, Diggs could and should have caught that if he's HIM.  O'Sullivan points out, though, that Allen had a receiver (I think it's Shakir) "wide-ass open" in the middle of the field.  Allen showed "his brother" some love, and it wasn't returned.

 

 

So target Shakir even more, guess it's no wonder they're comfortable moving on and having him step up.

[Beck Water]

28 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

So target Shakir even more, guess it's no wonder they're comfortable moving on and having him step up.

 

I mean, yes and no?  In the plays we're talking about, Shakir is open BECAUSE the safety is glued to Diggs and Sherfield was open BECAUSE Diggs had 3 guys (I think) looking at him and the 2nd safety shaded to Shakir.

 

Either Shakir steps up and becomes the guy they focus on and frees someone else, or we need a boundary guy the defense fears enough to blanket and leave Shakir open.

 

The way I see it anyway.

 

They don't have to be genius players, just guys who catch the football well enough and run routes well enough that DC's are "we better cover that guy or we're gonna look very stupid watching him WHUP WHUP WHUP into the EZ.  Could they fear Hollins and Kincaid enough?  

 

One thing that struck me was how very physical the Chiefs DBs were being.  They knocked the stuffing out of Cook a couple times and threw him yards off his route.  Ditto Diggs, he was getting knocked around.  Can Shakir handle that and provide enough of a threat?  Can Kincaid?

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

One thing that struck me was how very physical the Chiefs DBs were being.  They knocked the stuffing out of Cook a couple times and threw him yards off his route.  Ditto Diggs, he was getting knocked around.  Can Shakir handle that and provide enough of a threat?  Can Kincaid?

 

We need a big physical WR out of this draft. Coleman, Legette, Polk. I'm sick of our WRs getting pushed around in the playoffs year after year. Shakir and Kincaid aren't that type of talent. It has to come from the draft.

[BuffaloBill]

12 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Will watch it again. Really great analysis. He liked the shot to Shakir vs going to Diggs on the highly debated 2nd down play. Called out a potential bad read by multiple players on the 1st down run play. I didn't realize how much real estate Allen likely had if that is a read option and he pulls the ball out. He might have scored. Also discussed the 3rd down, Shakir was open on the left side for what likely is a first down. Allen didn't look that way. He was drooling over Josh's playmaking ability. Riding Diggs hard. Called him out several times for lack of effort and finishing routes. You see it. Lazy routes, rounded, not at the distances needed. 

 

Josh is one of the most insane playmakers in NFL history and his out of structure game is at a level few players have ever seen. Something to be said for boring, repeatable, drop back and throws. Brady was the king of this. Structured stuff is what Josh needs to keep improving on. I think Brady had him going in the right direction with that last year. Seems to do much better when we try and establish the run and work in the shorter designed passes as we did vs KC. 

 

Really worth the watch. 

 

 

If he was calling out Diggs you know the Bills coaching staff was aware. People here are bawling over the loss of Diggs but he was a non factor in the last seven games of 2023.  Additionally he has been a ghost vs. the chefs in the playoffs.  I am convinced that the Bills are better off without him it’s time to move on.

[clayboy54]

Alone again, naturally. Am I right?

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

We need a big physical WR out of this draft. Coleman, Legette, Polk. I'm sick of our WRs getting pushed around in the playoffs year after year. Shakir and Kincaid aren't that type of talent. It has to come from the draft.

 

You know I agree with you on the Bills needing a boundry WR who can hold his own. 

 

But what makes that?

 

Surely, Kincaid has the physical tools to be that type at 6'4" 246 lb with 32 5/8" arms?  It's not unheard of - one of the things that makes TE like Kelce and previously, Gronkowski so dangerous was their ability to be physical back and actually push off in the guise of putting a hand out or hand fighting.

It did show on his Draft Profile as a weakness - "Jarred off of his base by average contact" "Physical defenders are able to slow his routes." along with "Has enough speed to threaten vertically and across the field."

 

Are the former, skills that can be learned, trained for, and coached up?

Edited April 21 by Beck Water

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You know I agree with you on the Bills needing a boundry WR who can hold his own. 

 

But what makes that?

 

 

Surely Kincaid has the physical tools to be that type at 6'4" 246 lb with 32 5/8" arms?  It's not unheard of - one of the things that makes TE like Kelce and previously, Gronkowski so dangerous was their ability to be physical back and actually push off in the guise of putting a hand out or hand fighting.

It did show on his Draft Profile as a weakness - "Jarred off of his base by average contact" "Physical defenders are able to slow his routes." along with "Has enough speed to threaten vertically and across the field."

 

Are the former, skills that can be learned?

I don't know if this is an answer to your question

 

But playing outside receiver means you can win at release vs different CB looks/leverages which TEs really can't do effectively, not twitchy enough...much easier for TEs to carve out space and present a good target releasing emlos or slot 

 

Yes that can be learned imo, and combined w understanding of coverages is what makes a great TE

 

but the tools that make a great TE do not translate outside, in fact they work against you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

36 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Surely, Kincaid has the physical tools to be that type at 6'4" 246 lb with 32 5/8" arms?  It's not unheard of - one of the things that makes TE like Kelce and previously, Gronkowski so dangerous was their ability to be physical back and actually push off in the guise of putting a hand out or hand fighting.

 

No I don't think Kincaid has that kind of physicality. He has excellent hip fluidity which allows for sharp cuts and immediate RAC. But I think he will always get pushed around a bit off the line. He'll mostly be in the slot though so his skill set won't be erased. For an outside WR it isn't that easy to make up for a lack of physicality.

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't know if this is an answer to your question

 

But playing outside receiver means you can win at release vs different CB looks/leverages which TEs really can't do effectively, not twitchy enough...much easier for TEs to carve out space and present a good target releasing emlos or slot 

 

Yes that can be learned imo, and combined w understanding of coverages is what makes a great TE

 

but the tools that make a great TE do not translate outside, in fact they work against you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TIL the abbreviation emlos LOL

 

Yeah, I was kind of conflating two different skills in my post   A bit tired from gardening - @#$! Japanese anemones, those Greedy Guts.  And I swear they put roots down like they're trying to go back to Japan, through the earth.

 

One question is, can a guy learn not to be held up or jarred off his routes by physical play.  We hope Kincaid can train for and work on that.  We know he was a top basketball player in HS (National Champion AAU squad), which ought to help with that mindset.

 

The other is, can a guy release off the LOS against press man playing outside.

 

One of the skills Kincaid was said to have, and I see no lies, was "sweet feet" and the ability to burst into routes.  That's one thing, the ability to do those things lined up outside, is something else.

 

I do agree the Bills need someone who can do that (I think Mack Hollis can) and play WR with a higher degree of skill than, say, Sherfield who had his hands on that ball, dammit! (don't know that Mack Hollis can).

 

 

 

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

No I don't think Kincaid has that kind of physicality. He has excellent hip fluidity which allows for sharp cuts and immediate RAC. But I think he will always get pushed around a bit off the line. He'll mostly be in the slot though so his skill set won't be erased. For an outside WR it isn't that easy to make up for a lack of physicality.

 

Fundamentally, it seems as though on the Bills right now, all the receivers play best from the slot.

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Fundamentally, it seems as though on the Bills right now, all the receivers play best from the slot.

 

Correct. Samuel is the best outside WR we have which is more a testament to the state of the room than his own ability. I want us to add two WRs early that can play outside.

[FireChans]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Looking that wa

 

Luckily that's Houstons problem now

 

Concerns re route design and progressions still remain tho imo

That can’t be right. Dorsey’s offense had an elite EPA/play 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

That can’t be right. Dorsey’s offense had an elite EPA/play 

Concerns w Brady 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Concerns w Brady 

Do you think there was a complete difference in route design and progression pre- and post-Brady?

[Rigotz]

This was meant to be a Josh Allen analysis, but I learned more about Diggs than I had ever expected in this.

 

Way more than any article published the last several months.

 

This is the reason Diggs was traded.

 

He was paid to be a game wrecker and he showed up all over this film as a JAG. Can't throw to him when he's covered, isn't beating players with effort, isn't even beating single coverage. That's not a $30M/yr player and when Beane got a 2nd round pick to him, I bet he ran to cash in the offer. I'm actually excited to replace him with the collateral we receive in return for cutting him ($30M and a 2nd next year).

[GoBills808]

43 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do you think there was a complete difference in route design and progression pre- and post-Brady?

Yes I think there was a difference

[GunnerBill]

They ran shorter routes with Brady. But the Dorsey offense his final 6 games was absolutely awful. Whether it was all his fault is another question. But they were struggling to move the ball and awful at scoring.

[Maine-iac]

Anyone else notice how much Shakir was outside.  I noticed he was lined up outside on his TD catch and then rewatched the video and when he wasn't in motion he was outside a lot.  Not saying he's our new starter outside instead of the slot but he was definitely making plays out there.

[Freddie's Dead]

Sherfield and Stef failed on back-to-back bombs.  We don't have enough playmakers at WR.  Shakir gonna light it up this season, but we need that stud.  Stef Diggs is no longer it, so McBeane needs to NAIL this draft.

[Kornfed]

I never followed JTO..... That was some great insight and analysis. Thank you for posting! ...... Yes, both of the drops mentioned above should have been catches. On the other hand Shakir showed really great hands. This kid is gunna leave his mark. As far as Kincaid being affected by DB physicality, I think somebody with his ability can grow past that at this level. He's a smart kid who will continue to get stronger.

[mykidsdad]

Any chance Shakir can become the 1/x receiver? Is he that far of Diggs's traits and ability? 

 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, mykidsdad said:

Any chance Shakir can become the 1/x receiver? Is he that far of Diggs's traits and ability? 

 

No

Yes

[Aussie Joe]

14 minutes ago, mykidsdad said:

Any chance Shakir can become the 1/x receiver? Is he that far of Diggs's traits and ability? 

 

 

Shakir is probably better than a lot of people thought he was going to be … but Diggs at his best was a Top 5 WR … pretty sure Shakir is not going to be close to those levels … 

[Freddie's Dead]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

The next play he shows is the missed catch by Diggs.  Yes, Diggs could and should have caught that if he's HIM.  O'Sullivan points out, though, that Allen had a receiver (I think it's Shakir) "wide-ass open" in the middle of the field.  Allen showed "his brother" some love, and it wasn't returned.

 

I also thought it was Shakir, but it was Sherfield.

9 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

Alone again, naturally. Am I right?

 

Well played, sir!

 

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I also thought it was Shakir, but it was Sherfield

And at that point Sherfield had dropped another big one too

 

So no issues passing him up for diggs at that point, then no issues w passing up diggs after his drop for Shakir later either

[Mr. WEO]

On 4/21/2024 at 12:16 AM, GoBills808 said:

Just watched it

 

Calls out diggs multiple times for effort for all the 'he just wants to win' crowd

 

Soooo many posters fell for this!  

 

Guy is soft, not competitor, bout pouter...

Edited April 22 by Mr. WEO

[blacklabel]

JTs stuff is really good and he seems to be a pretty big fan of Josh. I liked his breakdown of the Eagles game last season, JT was just about shaking his head at the number of wicked throws from Josh in that one. Woulda been noice to come away with the W on that one. 

[Sweats]

Diggs lazy runs and unfinished routes on full display..........ugh.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

And at that point Sherfield had dropped another big one too

 

So no issues passing him up for diggs at that point, then no issues w passing up diggs after his drop for Shakir later either

 

Jesu, when you put it like that.....we need some receivers who can actually catch.