CURTIS SAMUEL A BILL

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I guess since Sherfield sucked, I guess that means Stefon Diggs sucked, Jordan Poyer sucked, Micah Hyde sucked, Mitch Morse sucked, Cole Beasley sucked....

Hey we haven't won the Super Bowl yet....everybody sucks that Beane brought on!

Beane didn't bring in Poyer and Hyde that was Whaley. The 2017 off-season which pretty much for us most of our difference makers these last 7 yrs were from Whaley's front office.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Beane didn't bring in Poyer and Hyde that was Whaley. The 2017 off-season which pretty much for us most of our difference makers these last 7 yrs were from Whaley's front office.

 

Mitch Morse, Stefon Diggs, Cole Beasley, Jon Brown, DaQuan Jones made more of a difference than anyone Whaley brought on.

 

If Brandon Beane were to be fired, he would get picked up immediately.

Doug Whaley was out of the NFL after being fired by the Bills.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Curtis Samuel has a fairly unique skillset.  Comparing him to Beasley or others is a waste of time IMO.

He has spent his entire career under Ron Rivera and with the dumpster QBs he was forced to play with, sure didn't help his career.

I cannot say for sure how he will be used in Buffalo and how successful he will be.

 

That said, I believe he is a decent receiver, and it will be up to Brady and Josh to make the signing a very good one or not.

Personally, I am happy with the signing BUT still want an outside WR on Day 1 or Day 2.

That's where I am. I think he is *better* than what we had for a WR2, but his true value will be slot and backfield. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

17 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Beane didn't bring in Poyer and Hyde that was Whaley. The 2017 off-season which pretty much for us most of our difference makers these last 7 yrs were from Whaley's front office.

There’s only one difference maker that really matters most, Josh Allen. You get the QB right, you basically write your own ticket as GM. Whaley? How many dud QB’s did he cycle through as an answer? Josh is the #1 reason we’ve risen to top tier of teams. 

Edited March 15 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Trust The Process]

The WR depth in this draft is strong. Why spend $8M per year on a JAG like Samuel who’s lucky to get 100 targets when you can draft a WR for a lot less money to do the same? Once again, Quintessential bad asset management by Beane. 
 

Also, Samuel lines up 53% of the time in the slot which will take snaps away from mostly Shakir followed by Kincaid which is a huge mistake. When Samuel lines up as a X Receiver he’ll compete for snaps with the player we draft.
 

In 2023, Samuel’s snap share was 56.7% which is what I envision he’ll get here in Buffalo. In my opinion that’s not a good return on investment when I could draft a WR for a lot cheaper in a strong receiver draft. 
 

Hollins shouldn’t have been signed for up to $3M per year either when we could’ve drafted a WR on Day 3 to do the same or more for a lot less money. 

Edited March 15 by Trust The Process

[Warcodered]

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

There’s only one difference maker that really matters most, Josh Allen. You get the QB right, you basically write your own ticket as GM. Whaley? How many dud QB’s did he cycle through as an answer? Josh is the #1 reason we’ve risen to top tier of teams. 

Well from the reports it was Whaley who wanted Mahomes and Pegs but Mcd didn't and he was the one traded him so there goes that. 

[BananaB]

Just now, Trust The Process said:

The WR depth in this draft is strong. Why spend $8M per year on a JAG l Iike Samuel who’s lucky to get 100 targets when you can draft a WR for a lot less money to do the same? Once again, Quintessential bad asset management by Beane. 
 

Also, Samuel lines up 53% of the time in the slot which will take snaps away from mostly Shakir followed by Kincaid which is a huge mistake. When Samuel lines up as a X Receiver he’ll compete for snaps with the player we draft.
 

In 2023, Samuel’s snap share was 56.7% which is what I envision he’ll get here in Buffalo. In my opinion that’s not a good return on investment when I could draft a WR for a lot cheaper in a strong receiver draft. 
 

Hollins shouldn’t have been signed for up to $3M per year either when we could’ve drafted a WR on Day 3 to do the same or more for a lot less money. 

What happens if the guy in the draft isn’t ready to play or turns out like a guy like Jalen Raeger?  You know, a bust.  Samuel is a good reliable receiver that can help in many ways. Do you care more about who makes the plays or if they are getting made? After Diggs downfall late last season Samuel may take some of his snaps. Who cares if Brady gets the O running on all cylinders 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Mitch Morse, Stefon Diggs, Cole Beasley, Jon Brown, DaQuan Jones made more of a difference than anyone Whaley brought on.

 

If Brandon Beane were to be fired, he would get picked up immediately.

Doug Whaley was out of the NFL after being fired by the Bills.

2017 Off-season was huge Tre, Dawkins, Milano , Poyer and Hyde . U got some work to do bud 

 

DaQuan is overrated never helped when it matters where's he been the last 2 playoff yrs? Against Cinny injured and playing injured vs KC so what did he do exactly?  Diggs and I said this at the time horrible move in a loaded Wr class that pk turned out to be the best Wr in NFL . The guys u mentioned are good players but there not on the level of Tre, Milano, Dawkins and the best safety duo we probably ever had. 

[Trust The Process]

Huge safety free agency class and we get nothing. 
 

Deep WR draft and we sign Hollins and Samuel. 
 

We trade Bates but we release Morse 

 

And we sign Morrow and depth guys instead of addressing starters. 
 

Once again, Beane is doing the opposite of which makes sense. He did the same thing the year we traded for Diggs. The depth at WR was strong in that draft and what Beane chose to do is trade for Diggs instead of drafting Jefferson. We shouldn’t have had to waste additional draft picks and a ton of valuable cap space on Diggs. 

Edited March 15 by Trust The Process

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Just now, BananaB said:

What happens if the guy in the draft isn’t ready to play or turns out like a guy like Jalen Raeger?  You know, a bust.  Samuel is a good reliable receiver that can help in many ways. Do you care more about who makes the plays or if they are getting made? After Diggs downfall late last season Samuel may take some of his snaps. Who cares if Brady gets the O running on all cylinders 

If they draft a bust that falls on them and they should be fired for it. McBeane are Wildcard Champs! That's what kind of team they continue to build get ready for it once again next season .

[Warcodered]

 

[Shaw66]

17 hours ago, Mat68 said:

The game has evolved past x, z and slot.  Samuel has the juice and skill set to play outside.  The advance metrics points to him being very effective in that role.  Diggs, Shakir and Samuel can line up anywhere.  So can Kincaid and Cook.  
 

In term of production I would point to his qbs.  Carolina and Washington have had bad qbs. I expect Samuel in a steady role has a career year.  He can do it all plus adds some of the gimmick plays and Debo Samuel stuff.  If they take a Wr in the Top 60 picks Buffalo will have the best Wr room Allen has played with.  

All of this makes sense to me.  I liked Davis's size, and the Bills lost that, but they play so much with two tight ends that I think they have the size covered.  Diggs, Knox, and Kincaid is enough in red zone, and Shakir or Samuel can be Beasley.   

 

And I agree, a receiver in the first two rounds would make for a formidable receiver room.  

[Aussie Joe]

14 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

The WR depth in this draft is strong. Why spend $8M per year on a JAG l Iike Samuel who’s lucky to get 100 targets when you can draft a WR for a lot less money to do the same? Once again, Quintessential bad asset management by Beane. 
 

Also, Samuel lines up 53% of the time in the slot which will take snaps away from mostly Shakir followed by Kincaid which is a huge mistake. When Samuel lines up as a X Receiver he’ll compete for snaps with the player we draft.
 

In 2023, Samuel’s snap share was 56.7% which is what I envision he’ll get here in Buffalo. In my opinion that’s not a good return on investment when I could draft a WR for a lot cheaper in a strong receiver draft. 
 

Hollins shouldn’t have been signed for up to $3M per year either when we could’ve drafted a WR on Day 3 to do the same or more for a lot less money. 

Because they didn’t want to go into the season with a WR room of Diggs, Shakir and rookies ..

 

Our OC had worked with Samuel before and knows he can fit into the scheme he is designing.. so he probably prefers to have him rather than have a rookie he doesn’t know as well…

 

Also … Its an odd thing … but not every rookie comes in Year 1 Week 1 with the experience, confidence and knowledge of a vet …

 
Hollins will be the Sherfield replacement … plays some Teams and gets about 40 plays for the year 

 

 

Edited March 15 by Aussie Joe

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

If they draft a bust that falls on them and they should be fired for it. McBeane are Wildcard Champs! That's what kind of team they continue to build get ready for it once again next season .

I agree. I don’t have Super Bowl expectations but I think Samuel can help this team. 

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Question: you've played with a mobile QB before in Can Newton. What's it going to be like playing with Josh Allen and his ability to extend plays?

 

Answer: my job is to get open as fast as possible so maybe he doesn't have to scramble as much. 

[Trust The Process]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Because they didn’t want to go into the season with a WR room of Diggs, Shakir and rookies ..

 

Our OC had worked with Samuel before and knows he can fit into the scheme he is designing.. so he probably prefers to have him rather than have a rookie he doesn’t know as well…

 

Also … Its an odd thing … but not every rookie comes in Year 1 Week 1 with the experience, confidence and knowledge of a vet …

 
Hollins will be the Sherfield replacement … plays some Teams and gets about 40 plays for the year 

 

 

My complaint with Beane is bad asset management and for not being skilled at reading the draft board in a WR rich draft. 

 

I can replace Davis with a rookie in the first 2 rounds of the draft for a lot less money than what we paid Samuel who only plays 58% of the snaps. The rookie I draft can be Diggs future replacement with a snap count similar to Diggs. Beane just need to do his job and hit on the receiver he drafts. It’s a calculated risk. 

 

I can replace Sherfield with a day 3 rookie WR who’s a lot cheaper with much more upside than Hollins. 

Edited March 15 by Trust The Process

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Question: you've played with a mobile QB before in Can Newton. What's it going to be like playing with Josh Allen and his ability to extend plays?

 

Answer: my job is to get open as fast as possible so maybe he doesn't have to scramble as much. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Mitch Morse, Stefon Diggs, Cole Beasley, Jon Brown, DaQuan Jones made more of a difference than anyone Whaley brought on.

 

If Brandon Beane were to be fired, he would get picked up immediately.

Doug Whaley was out of the NFL after being fired by the Bills.

 

 

Every one of those players you mentioned cost A LOT to acquire/sign.

 

Whaley was a good pro personnel man.    He didn't have full control of football OPS and the checkbook like McBeane were given by Pegula so he ended up operating with a smaller budget.  So in addition to getting credit for signing future All Pro's Hyde and Poyer to great deals here are some of Whaley's other pro personnel gems:

 

Tyrod.........$2M deal turned in a Pro Bowl season

Lorenzo Alexander........ $885K turned into 12.5 sacks 76 tackles 22 QB hits and an All Pro second team

Zach Brown........$1.25M lead NFL in tackles and also All Pro second team

 

Try as he might Beane hasn't had even one value signing pan out anywhere close to those 5. 

 

Beane is the much better GM and more specifically a tremendous executive/confidence man...........but there isn't any comparison with regard to pro personnel(which was Whaley's specialty).

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

28 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

The WR depth in this draft is strong. Why spend $8M per year on a JAG like Samuel who’s lucky to get 100 targets when you can draft a WR for a lot less money to do the same? Once again, Quintessential bad asset management by Beane. 
 

Also, Samuel lines up 53% of the time in the slot which will take snaps away from mostly Shakir followed by Kincaid which is a huge mistake. When Samuel lines up as a X Receiver he’ll compete for snaps with the player we draft.
 

In 2023, Samuel’s snap share was 56.7% which is what I envision he’ll get here in Buffalo. In my opinion that’s not a good return on investment when I could draft a WR for a lot cheaper in a strong receiver draft. 
 

Hollins shouldn’t have been signed for up to $3M per year either when we could’ve drafted a WR on Day 3 to do the same or more for a lot less money. 

You presume to know how CS will be utilized.

 

You shouldn’t. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

23 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Well from the reports it was Whaley who wanted Mahomes and Pegs but Mcd didn't and he was the one traded him so there goes that. 

I thought we were talking about Beane as GM specifically—and he got our franchise QB in place (plus worked out a great looking extension) 

[Aussie Joe]

6 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

My complaint with Beane is bad asset management and for not being skilled at reading the draft board in a WR rich draft. 

 

I can replace Davis with a rookie in the first 2 rounds of the draft for a lot less money than what we have Samuel who plays 58% of the snaps. The rookie I draft can be Diggs future replacement with a snap count similar to Diggs. Beane just need to do his job and hit on the receiver he drafts. It’s a calculated risk. 

 

I can replace Sherfield with a day 3 rookie WR who’s a lot cheaper with much more upside than Hollins. 

Looks like Beane prefers to move in a different direction …   It’s nothing new right .. this regime always preferred experience over rookies …

 

I will wait and see how things pan out in six months , rather then worrying about it now… lot of people this time last year were demanding they pay money for a LB

 

 

Edited March 15 by Aussie Joe

[Trust The Process]

Who helps Allen and our offense most? 
 

Sign Derrick Henry for the money we spent on Samuel, and draft a X WR within the first 2 rounds? OR…

 

Sign Samuel and draft a X WR? 
 

Sign Samuel and draft a RB? 

Edited March 15 by Trust The Process

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

Huge safety free agency class and we get nothing. 
 

Deep WR draft and we sign Hollins and Samuel. 
 

We trade Bates but we release Morse 

 

And we sign Morrow and depth guys instead of addressing starters. 
 

Once again, Beane is doing the opposite of which makes sense. He did the same thing the year we traded for Diggs. The depth at WR was strong in that draft and what Beane chose to do is trade for Diggs instead of drafting Jefferson. We shouldn’t have had to waste additional draft picks and a ton of valuable cap space on Diggs. 

 

You really don't like Beane so I won't address that directly.  Everyone has an opinion.

 

Just a couple of questions.

 

1.  Do you want Diggs to finish his contract in Buffalo?  If yes, signing Samuel's wouldn't be a good thing.

He could get Gabe's replacement in the draft.  If no, signing Samuel is not a bad idea and drafting a top WR makes sense.

We will see the answer to what Beane thinks in the draft.

 

2.  The only reason Morse was let go is money.  His replacement is a question.  However, having Bates as "heir apparent" is not so

cut and dry with me as with others (I guess you too).  Bates in his entire career in Buffalo has had 3 full games (around 200) snaps

at the Center position.  Moving on from him has to be more about his perceived ability to be a starting Center for a playoff team,

than just saving money.  That's how I see it.

 

3.  Signing Morrow is what it is.  They needed 1 more depth guy.  Beane has limited funds and having one of his underlings get this deal

done early has no bearing on Beane's ability to look at more "starter type" guys.  You may think he can't, but I do believe OBD can

walk and chew gum at the same time.  Signing Morrow now or in a week makes no difference to me.

 

4.  Diggs vs Jefferson.  Come on, Josh was young and never had a great WR to throw the ball to.  Diggs had proven talent and no doubt

was helpful to Josh in his progress.  This is truly hindsight at it's best.

 

I know I won't budge you from what you think and believe.  Just giving you a perspective from the other side of the coin.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I guess since Sherfield sucked, I guess that means Stefon Diggs sucked, Jordan Poyer sucked, Micah Hyde sucked, Mitch Morse sucked, Cole Beasley sucked....

Hey we haven't won the Super Bowl yet....everybody sucks that Beane brought on!

Nope. Just Sherfield sucks.

 

That was a terrible retort. 

[Trust The Process]

12 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

You presume to know how CS will be utilized.

 

You shouldn’t. 

I didn’t presume. I did my homework on Samuels with analytics, scouting reports, and how he was used in Washington and with Joe Brady in Carolina. I expect to see mostly the same in Buffalo with slightly better stats. Samuel’s career yards per reception is not impressive, and isn’t a big play threat despite running the 40 yard dash in 4.31 seconds which means he doesn’t play fast. 

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Maybe if our receivers were better than Mahomes’, we would’ve been to a Super Bowl.

 

Unfortunately, we got stuck with Trent Sherfield and his alligator arm efforts led us to need a FG to tie in the closing minutes. Which was predictably shanked. 
 

No one is saying Beane sucks or the Bills suck. Their WR management and group has been overall insufficient. Who could argue this? No one.

 

I know you can’t even debate it because you hilariously aren’t even trying to. You just say things like, “we won the AFCE” like that has anything to do with the conversation. 
 

If you want to tell me that the investments into the WR group over the last 3 seasons have been good, I’d love to hear why. Otherwise, you just want to wave poms poms and you should just quit while you’re behind.

I respect your dedication to your narrative. 

[HOUSE]

We have no money for this

The checks will bounce

[BADOLBILZ]

32 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That was a terrible retort. 

 

 

Yeah I am guessing @Royale with Cheese is trying out a new technique.    Like when Dice put out "The Day The Laughter Died" and refused to tell the nursery rhymes to the crowd.

 

 

An artist has to explore.   Personally, I am going to dabble back into "sub-illumination" the rest of the offseason.   Which is understating an overwhelming strength in your argument to disorient your adversary.   They badly want to tell you that you are wrong but to do so they have to actually address a fact that damns their side of the argument to do it.       Like "what do you mean,  Allen had 38 total TD's last year, he was awesome"

Edited March 15 by BADOLBILZ

[Doc]

COOL. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

2017 Off-season was huge Tre, Dawkins, Milano , Poyer and Hyde . U got some work to do bud 

 

DaQuan is overrated never helped when it matters where's he been the last 2 playoff yrs? Against Cinny injured and playing injured vs KC so what did he do exactly?  Diggs and I said this at the time horrible move in a loaded Wr class that pk turned out to be the best Wr in NFL . The guys u mentioned are good players but there not on the level of Tre, Milano, Dawkins and the best safety duo we probably ever had. 

Hmmmm…

Because Tre White, Milano, Poyer and Hyde were not also apart of our underwhelming playoff defenses?  
Did they all step up when it matters?

[stinky finger]

38 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

I didn’t presume. I did my homework on Samuels with analytics, scouting reports, and how he was used in Washington and with Joe Brady in Carolina. I expect to see mostly the same in Buffalo with slightly better stats. Samuel’s career yards per reception is not impressive, and isn’t a big play threat despite running the 40 yard dash in 4.31 seconds which means he doesn’t play fast. 

Sounds rather......presumptive.

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I respect your dedication to your narrative. 

That Trent Sherfield sucks and he’s not an ideal player to start against our biggest playoff rival that has a 3 time champion HoF QB/Coach combo? 
 

It’s not that hard of a narrative to push. It’s pretty factual.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2017 Draft Profile:

 

Overview

Jack-of-all trades but master of none, Samuel showed an ability to gain yardage and create scoring opportunities in a variety of ways on a talented Buckeyes offense. However, NFL teams will want to slot him into a more defined role, which is most likely at receiver. He is still learning the position and has separation quickness to create open throwing lanes, but while he's sharpening his route work, he could find early reps as a kick returner.

Strengths

- Has crisp feet for sudden change of direction

- Long-strider with deep speed to challenge press coverage over the top

Shows defender an exaggerated jab fake at top of his routes to generate lean from cornerback and create separation out of his break

- On comeback routes, can stutter feet into his break for a sudden stop-and-open timing throws

- Has explosiveness both vertically and out of his breaks to uncover on all three levels

- Can ramp it back up to top gear quickly after tapping his brakes in space

At his best when matched up in open space

- Gets faster and more dangerous as the play unfolds

- Has two years of kick-return experience

- Moveable matchup piece

Weaknesses

- Plays with some hip tightness that make his play more linear than fluid

- Needs to work on release against press

- Could get hung up off the line and into his routes by athletic, press-cover slot men

- Has unnatural hands that fight the throw

- Will default to body catches

- Didn't have as many "pro-style" touches as teams would like

- Averaged just 5.5 yards at the catch point, and several carries came on jet sweeps and stretch plays from shotgun

- Average ball-tracking and adjustments to poor throws

- Wasn't asked to handle blocking responsibilities very often

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Hmmmm…

Because Tre White, Milano, Poyer and Hyde were not also apart of our underwhelming playoff defenses?  
Did they all step up when it matters?

I was correcting the poster saying Beane brought Hyde, Poyer etc etc . Then it turned into debate . 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

2017 Draft Profile:

 

Overview

Jack-of-all trades but master of none, Samuel showed an ability to gain yardage and create scoring opportunities in a variety of ways on a talented Buckeyes offense. However, NFL teams will want to slot him into a more defined role, which is most likely at receiver. He is still learning the position and has separation quickness to create open throwing lanes, but while he's sharpening his route work, he could find early reps as a kick returner.

Strengths

- Has crisp feet for sudden change of direction

- Long-strider with deep speed to challenge press coverage over the top

Shows defender an exaggerated jab fake at top of his routes to generate lean from cornerback and create separation out of his break

- On comeback routes, can stutter feet into his break for a sudden stop-and-open timing throws

- Has explosiveness both vertically and out of his breaks to uncover on all three levels

- Can ramp it back up to top gear quickly after tapping his brakes in space

At his best when matched up in open space

- Gets faster and more dangerous as the play unfolds

- Has two years of kick-return experience

- Moveable matchup piece

Weaknesses

- Plays with some hip tightness that make his play more linear than fluid

- Needs to work on release against press

- Could get hung up off the line and into his routes by athletic, press-cover slot men

- Has unnatural hands that fight the throw

- Will default to body catches

- Didn't have as many "pro-style" touches as teams would like

- Averaged just 5.5 yards at the catch point, and several carries came on jet sweeps and stretch plays from shotgun

- Average ball-tracking and adjustments to poor throws

- Wasn't asked to handle blocking responsibilities very often

 

And to be honest.... he has been that guy in the pros. Jack of all trades is exactly the description. I like the signing, do not get my wrong, he is legit - he can play. But he isn't alone a difference maker.

[Solomon Grundy]

12 hours ago, Lost said:

 

He had the slowest 40 time of every receiver at the combine.   That's concerning.  

There's a plethora of GREAT WRs that ran slow 40s. Rice, Boldin are 2 that comes to mind

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

And shows very little ability to separate.  That’s my issue with him.  I feel that he’ll be Gabe 2.0 whereas Josh will force him the ball to give the guy a chance to make a play and interceptions will result.  

They said the same about Metcalf, DHop, Michael Thomas about not separating from coverage. Catching the ball is job #1

[BBFL]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There's a plethora of GREAT WRs that ran slow 40s. Rice, Boldin are 2 that comes to mind

They said the same about Metcalf, DHop, Michael Thomas about not separating from coverage. Catching the ball is job #1

Boldin might honestly be one of my favorite receivers from the past 20 years.

 

Tough, consummate professional. Takes some cojones to get your face absolutely shattered and only miss 3 games. Insane. 

[NoName]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:56 PM, Behindenemylines said:

But can he drop balls like Gabe, that’s what I want to know   Just adds to the in-game excitement!  
 

 

 

Pause!!!

[Mat68]

47 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There's a plethora of GREAT WRs that ran slow 40s. Rice, Boldin are 2 that comes to mind

They said the same about Metcalf, DHop, Michael Thomas about not separating from coverage. Catching the ball is job #1

Metcalf had a megatron type RAS.  He is not the same.  For every Thomas, Rice and Boldin there are 100 Brandon Lafell, USC Mike Williams, Treadwell, Blackmon busts.  Besides Rice, who came out in the 80’s, that is why the other guys went rd 2.