So Spencer Brown what say you?

[Rigotz]

I think we should give up on him and run him out of town, along with Terrel Bernard, AJ Epenesa, and Ed Oliver.

 

Next up, Kaiir Elam. Player development doesn't exist!

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I think we should give up on him and run him out of town, along with Terrel Bernard, AJ Epenesa, and Ed Oliver.

 

Next up, Kaiir Elam. Player development doesn't exist!

Player development is great and all, but if guys don't produce until it's time to get a second contract then you've lost most of the value of the draft picks.  It's fine to pay  $15 million to guys providing $15 million of value, but you get ahead by getting $15 million of production from guys making $2 million on rookie deals.

[Coldfronts]

Spencer Brown signed a 4 year, $4,834,697 contract. He becomes a UFA in 2025.  I think he is going to command much more than that. For comparison,  RT Austin Jackson in December signed a 3 year, $36,000,000 contract extension with the Miami Dolphins. The Bills can not afford that type of money, they better start dooming another rookie. Also, Dion Dawkins is a UFA in 2025 BIG MONEY

Edited February 13 by Coldfronts

[SoCal Deek]

This seems like the wrong offseason to be bringing this up! 

[Coldfronts]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This seems like the wrong offseason to be bringing this up! 

Yes I agree, but there is going to have to be some heavy decisions made about the O line in 2025 because both Dawkins and Brown are UFA

Edited February 13 by Coldfronts

[DrMaxPower]

He proved to be exactly what Beane hoped. Their patience was rewarded.

 

He was an inexperienced and raw player with prototypical size and athleticism. He should still be ascending. The back injury certainly delayed things and lead to some questions but I think that's in the rear-view mirror now.

 

I'd maybe wait a few week into the season, just to make sure there are no backslides but I'd be trying to get him on a reasonable deal.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he bet on himself and waited out FA. He could get 15M+ with a similar or better season next year.

 

I do think they will be making a decision on Dawkins vs Brown. I don't expect they will pay them both come 2025.

 

 

Edited February 13 by DrMaxPower

[gjv]

Brown is a "Must Sign" in my book.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, DrMaxPower said:

He proved to be exactly what Beane hoped. Their patience was rewarded.

 

He was an inexperienced and raw player with prototypical size and athleticism. The back injury certainly delayed things and lead to some questions but I think that's in the rear-view mirror now.

 

I'd maybe wait a few week into the season, just to make sure there are no backslides but I'd be trying to get him on a reasonable deal.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he bet on himself and waited out FA. He could get 15M+ with a similar or better season next year.

 

I do think they will be making a decision on Dawkins vs Brown. I don't expect they will pay them both come 2025.

 

 

So the question is .. what is a “reasonable deal” to offer him this year? someone mentioned Austin at $36m for three years as a comparison … I wouldn’t be to unhappy  with that …doubt he takes less 
 

This is Morse’s last year … I think that a mix of paying three starters  and having two on rookie deals is not a bad outcome … I think Dawkins has got a couple of years left in him still … pay him another 2-3 years 

[T master]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We were ready to run him out on a rail, but then his name stopped getting called which is a good thing for an offensive lineman

 

Did we find our right tackle?

 

Well that is typical Bills Mafia stuff right ? If your not playing or coaching to SUPER BOWL Levels you need to be fired . Let him screw up and he will be back at the top of the get rid of him list . 

[H2o]

Better run blocker than pass blocker. He still struggles with speed rushers, or rushers who have multiple moves in their repertoire. Josh makes any OL look better than they actually are because of his Houdini act in the pocket, how hard he is to bring down, and the fact he'll take off if he feels pressure and sees a lane. He's not some upper echelon RT or anything like that, but he was better this year than previous. Our offensive mentality also shifted as well where we decided to run the ball more often, which having that going definitely benefits his game. Just the threat of us being able to run the ball kept the defense from being able to pin their ears back and rush the QB as often this year.  

[DrMaxPower]

11 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So the question is .. what is a “reasonable deal” to offer him this year? someone mentioned Austin at $36m for three years as a comparison … I wouldn’t be to unhappy  with that …doubt he takes less 
 

This is Morse’s last year … I think that a mix of paying three starters  and having two on rookie deals is not a bad outcome … I think Dawkins has got a couple of years left in him still … pay him another 2-3 years 

 

I don't disagree with the idea of 3 guys being paid and 2 on rookie deals but I think the positions matter. Paying a tackle is going to cost close to double what a comparable guard will cost. I think it's hard to pay 2 tackles top shelf deals unless they are truly elite.

 

I think Austin Jackson's draft position might inflate his value a bit. Shouldn't matter but I think it does to a degree. If we could get Brown done in the 10-12 M range, I'd do it. Gets to be a harder decision if that number starts floating higher.

Edited February 13 by DrMaxPower

[Saint Doug]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

Seems to be but my question is why does the title of this thread make no sense?

And what does Spencer Brown have to do with how better the Chiefs are compared to the Bills?

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Coldfronts said:

Yes I agree, but there is going to have to be some heavy decisions made about the O line in 2025 because both Dawkins and Brown are UFA

So let’s shelve this discussion until next year. They cannot overhaul the entire roster in one offseason. 

[Coldfronts]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So let’s shelve this discussion until next year. They cannot overhaul the entire roster in one offseason. 

Can you imagine the whining on this board if they address this all in one year they need to sign one of them to an extension this year

[transplantbillsfan]

I would like them to sign him to an extension this offseason, because I think yes.  If he plays as well or better next season than he did this season, he's going to cost $4 or $5 million more per season if we sign him now.

[Fan in Chicago]

We have to look for 

1. Upgrade to Brown

2. Another C/G to eventually replace Morse

 

On offense, the above 2 plus at least 2 WRs are adequate for the offense next season 

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We were ready to run him out on a rail, but then his name stopped getting called which is a good thing for an offensive lineman

 

Did we find our right tackle?

Good progress.  Always look to add talent up front - that’s where games are won and lost - but I’m fine with him as the starte.

[finn]

6 hours ago, SoMAn said:

I like Brown.  I don't have any problem with is play. I think he was unfairly maligned by some, who maybe had unrealistic expectations for him as a starting NFL tackle. He was given baptism by fire as a rookie, and in '22, playing through an injury (bad ankle?) Young and still learning, his play was adequate in '23 and should continue to improve and be a fixture on the line for a good while. 

I've maligned him often, but I don't think I was being unfair. He's been beaten on numerous occasions since he arrived, most memorably in the 13-second game, when he was rag-dolled by Melvin Ingram. He's been beaten so often over his career Josh Allen would reflexively dodge the rusher Brown let through. "Take snap, dodge Brown's man, look, throw."

 

Who was the poster who generously posted his review of each O-linemen after every game? Brown always got low grades. Same with the grades from the Athletic. Only this past year, and maybe just the second half of last year, did he do a competent job in pass-pro. He's improved to average. That's something, I guess. But I'm hardly excited about him. 

[Kwai San]

5 hours ago, DrMaxPower said:

He proved to be exactly what Beane hoped. Their patience was rewarded.

 

He was an inexperienced and raw player with prototypical size and athleticism. He should still be ascending. The back injury certainly delayed things and lead to some questions but I think that's in the rear-view mirror now.

 

I'd maybe wait a few week into the season, just to make sure there are no backslides but I'd be trying to get him on a reasonable deal.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he bet on himself and waited out FA. He could get 15M+ with a similar or better season next year.

 

I do think they will be making a decision on Dawkins vs Brown. I don't expect they will pay them both come 2025.

 

 

 

Only reason I thumbs downed this is I think Brown is a Bills lifer....if Big Baller is on his game he will get an extension sooner rather than later.  Remember Big Baller is ALL IN on this guy....ALL.  IN.  I say an extension is coming soon.  Pay him early and gain the rewards.  Brown hopefully likes it here.....certainly he likes JA17......how many teams have a JA17 to like???  Not the one who can afford to throw massive cash at him that's for sure.  Let's just have Big Baller bring up Edmunds during the the $$$ talk.  Would you like to be Edmunds on HIS team now??  Big Bucks and a team that SUCKS?????  Kinda doubt it....we shall see

[Kwai San]

2 hours ago, finn said:

I've maligned him often, but I don't think I was being unfair. He's been beaten on numerous occasions since he arrived, most memorably in the 13-second game, when he was rag-dolled by Melvin Ingram. He's been beaten so often over his career Josh Allen would reflexively dodge the rusher Brown let through. "Take snap, dodge Brown's man, look, throw."

 

Who was the poster who generously posted his review of each O-linemen after every game? Brown always got low grades. Same with the grades from the Athletic. Only this past year, and maybe just the second half of last year, did he do a competent job in pass-pro. He's improved to average. That's something, I guess. But I'm hardly excited about him. 

 

I dunno if I would go 110% with the beginning of your last paragraph, I would agree with the rest of it tho but he is def a liability at times in pass pro.....run game which the Bills are rightfully leaning towards he is above average imo.  I think the Bills can nab him for a signing now rather than later and then have the $$$ to pat DD for a contract of 2-3 years......my $0.02.

[Nitro]

He had a rock solid season.   He proved the nay sayers wrong.   Brown is the RT for then five to seven years.

[Matt_In_NH]

Which one of you is Spencer brown?  Then I can see what say he 

Edited February 14 by Matt_In_NH

[Freddie's Dead]

10 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I think the OP was confused with what say you? or would you re-sign him?

 

Whither Spencer Brown, resign or re-sign?  Would make a good poll.

9 hours ago, Virgil said:

Am I wrong for being annoyed with the guys who only seem to figure it out in the final year of their rookie deal?  

 

I think it's also the first season where his back held up without lost time due to injury Virg.

[Doc]

Looking forward to seeing him and Torrence next season.  Curious to see what becomes of Morse/Center position.

[Scott7975]

I think he started slow and still allows a bad jail break occasionally.  Over all I think he had a good season and people crapped on him just because.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He’s under contract for next year. He played ok. Make him play on final year of contract. Then let him walk for a comp pick. He’s never going to be a LT. They can find someone else to play RT in 2025 much cheaper.

[Utah John]

The Bills organization has always been higher on Brown, and on Davis, than the fans were.  I think them Bills saw Brown's potential and let him play through growing pains (and actual pains with his back) and now he's the player they were expecting to see.  He's retainable if Beane jumps on the situation now. 

 

Most fans aren't sad about the prospect of Davis getting paid by somewhere else, but based on what the professional football team in town thinks, his loss will hurt.  

36 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He’s under contract for next year. He played ok. Make him play on final year of contract. Then let him walk for a comp pick. He’s never going to be a LT. They can find someone else to play RT in 2025 much cheaper.

I think that's a bad move.  There aren't a lot of really good RTs out there, and now that the Bills have developed one it makes better sense to put the ball in Brown's court about an extension.  Brown knows as well as we all do that he's got an injury history which will make him less marketable next year.  Beane should put a good solid offer on the table for a 4-5 year extension at a reasonable price, and let Brown try to decide whether to take the money and stay here long term, or to play out his rookie deal and hope for a bigger contract, risking not getting much at all if his back goes out or some other injury happens next year.  The offer Beane will put down will make Brown a very rich man, and he might decide to take the bird in the hand, sign the offer, and put this position on solid ground for years.  

[CSBill]

17 hours ago, Beast said:

Seems to be but my question is why does the title of this thread make no sense?

 

Well, what did he say?

[BarleyNY]

19 hours ago, SoMAn said:

I like Brown.  I don't have any problem with is play. I think he was unfairly maligned by some, who maybe had unrealistic expectations for him as a starting NFL tackle. He was given baptism by fire as a rookie, and in '22, playing through an injury (bad ankle?) Young and still learning, his play was adequate in '23 and should continue to improve and be a fixture on the line for a good while. 

Agreed. Also the entire OL was aided by the scheme changes since Daboll left that have gotten the ball out of Allen’s hand more quickly. 

[SoCal Deek]

If I’m following along, the basic point of this thread is to discuss whether the Bills should jump ahead and extend Brown’s contract BEFORE it’s up next season? Do they have any legitimate money available to do that? Seems to me this same discussion could apply to any number of players who’re in their pre-contract season….no?  Anybody have the list of the other players who’re in a similar situation? That’s ultimately the measuring stick. 

Edited February 14 by SoCal Deek

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We were ready to run him out on a rail, but then his name stopped getting called which is a good thing for an offensive lineman

 

Did we find our right tackle?

 

 

Barring injury or regression, hell yeah!!

 

He was still having a few problems early, but he got better and better and better.

 

Against DeMarcus Lawrence, you just about didn't see Lawrence all game. I really noticed that.

Edited February 14 by Thurman#1

[Brand J]

I think Van Demark has looked very promising every time he’s been on the field and for a cap strapped team he’ll soon be starting at one of the spots, but he’s a better LT than RT.

Edited February 14 by Brand J

[Iraq Vet]

Brown is fine for the rest of his contract.  Draft a very raw, high ceiling guy in the 6th round this year.  Then lets see how it plays out when Brown's contract is up in 2025. 

[RyanC883]

not worried about next year, but may want to draft a replacement because he may be priced out.  

[Doc]

How did Gouraige look at RT?