NFL MVP

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

where was Allen on the OT punt return that won it for the jets……..

All of the losses were far from Allen’s fault, but the Jets game is the last one I’d try to make that argument.  He gave the game away in the second half, in primetime Week 1 against Zach Wilson.  That’s an embarrassing loss and Josh then fought the turnover narrative all season.  Game shouldn’t have gotten to OT.

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Narratives also matter for MVP. Lamar and the Ravens smacked a couple great teams in a row and ended some MVP candidacy. 
 

I personally believe Allen would have had a decent chance to win if he put up some insane stat lines during our win streak. Unfortunately, there was no 300 yard 4 TD performance, and the Ravens never faltered. 

until it mattered.

 

they're the Ravens. No one should take them seriously in January. Ever.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

So all Lamar needs to do is going forward is throw for 3000 yards 25 TDs and run for about 5 TDs and he is automatic and unani.mous MVP. What a joke the NFL has become, where would the Bills be if Josh only had Lamars numbers. 

 

I'll say it, the NFL is woke and Lamar won it because of his skin color, it's what they wanted, todays NFL is scripted beyond belief and it's disgusting. Prove me wrong, there are others way more deserving!

No, he just needs the other elite qbs to lose twice as many games and turn the ball over a bunch.

[Blank Stare]

1 hour ago, balln said:

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

That’s quite the list of distinguished journalists on that AP panel. 🙄 Don’t know why I didn’t know this. Certainly, explains why what all the talking heads say on this award come to fruition. They are the ones voting and groupthink (without much substance) is strong with that crew. What a joke!

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Funny how when everyone was saying he choked in the playoffs Ravens fans defended him saying it’s the coaches fault for not running the ball like they did in regular season. MVP my ass! NFL is a ***** joke and this ad their pro bowl format is ridiculous:

Didn’t the Bills win streak down the stretch happen right after they started running the ball more?

[The Wiz]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Meh-  1 int.  1 FF.  0 FR.  If someone thinks he’s the team mvp, they need a clue. 

That looks like Tremaine Edmunds Pro bowl year.

 

Which is kind of my point.  Reading a stat sheet is all these voters do just like you did.

[UKBillFan]

28 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

The world where the media doesn't view the Bills as the loveable losers anymore.  The Media loves winners. While the Bills are great in the regular season they never get there at the end. IMO the national media is tired of hyping the Bills when they can't finish the job. 

 

The same could be said of the Ravens.

[Jrb1979]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

The same could be said of the Ravens.

The Ravens aren't hyped up going into each season. They weren't in the Super Bowl contender discussion at the beginning of the season 

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Is everyone done crying yet?

 

There will never be a MVP with an 11-6 team that has committed 23 turnovers, unless they've broken a record of some sort.  It's just not happening.  

 

I can understand Josh not getting it. The turnover record was too much despite the amount in the positive column.

 

But Jackson did little more than his job this season. The Ravens defense carried them as much if not more. Him getting MVP over the likes of McCaffrey and Hill is ridiculous. Heck, if it had to go to a QB, Mahomes deserved it more than him.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

That looks like Tremaine Edmunds Pro bowl year.

 

Which is kind of my point.  Reading a stat sheet is all these voters do just like you did.

It certain cases that’s all you have to do. Like in Josh’s case this year.  Just look at the turnovers and the losses. Both matter to mvp voters.  
 

As for off ball LBers to be a teams most valuable player, tackles don’t cut it.  Turnovers and sacks separate the good from the greats.  Smiths 8 PBs are solid- but I don’t he how raking up a bunch of tackles and a PB every other game would make him more valuable that Lamar.  

[Negan]

At least we won't have Dorsey next year, Allen will probably win MVP next year with Joe Brady calling the plays imo.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, balln said:

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

I think posters on a message board put more thought into this than the TV personalities that vote for it. Looking at that list, does anybody think most of those people put 2 seconds of thought into it? I doubt most could even articulate why they voted a certain way if put on the spot. They probably thought “who is everybody else voting for” and that was that. Voting against the grain could be damaging career-wise. Probably why that guy felt the need to write a short novel explaining why he voted for Allen.

 

Not to mention that 80% of that list is employed by the same 3 companies. So they probably just vote with whoever their employer has been pushing.

 

I don’t care about this award anymore. I thought it was voted on by newspaper sports journalists, not bobblehead TV personalities that serve up hot takes for clicks/views.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Negan said:

At least we won't have Dorsey next year, Allen will probably win MVP next year with Joe Brady calling the plays imo.

He'll never win the award, will always be too turnover-prone.

[Bob Jones]

14 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

It has to be Kelce ... he's in the Super Bowl for the 4th time in the last 5 years and he's ******* the hot Billionaire.

How do you know she’s letting him do her? She is on record as having many “bad” relationships. Maybe this time, she’s keeping the lid on the cookie jar locked until it gets more serious.

 

I know I’m somewhat “poking fun” here, but seriously, why do so many people assume that they are just fornicating like wild animals? Is there any proof to that at all?

[zow2]

Just imagine the gushing if Lamar had Allen’s stats.  Lamar made plays but often had to manage games and not screw up, allowing their D and special teams to control a lot of them.

[34-78-83]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Here's the article for anyone who cares to read it:

 

https://www.ftnfantasy.com/articles/FTN/114021/aaron-schatz-my-2023-all-pro-ballot

Thanks. Seems like the right guys at the top of the lists with how the advanced #'s worked out in this article.

[FireChans]

29 minutes ago, boyst said:

until it mattered.

 

they're the Ravens. No one should take them seriously in January. Ever.

The MVP is a regular season award.

 

I tried to believe in Lamar and that this year was different, but in my mind, he is Dak East and I won’t trust him in the playoffs until he wins it all, and maybe not even then.

[zevo]

7 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Thanks. Seems like the right guys at the top of the lists with how the advanced #'s worked out in this article.

if only the general media were as smart as Aaron.

[Gregg]

33 minutes ago, boyst said:

until it mattered.

 

they're the Ravens. No one should take them seriously in January. Ever.

 

They do have 2 Super Bowl wins in their history. Granted it was during the Ray Lewis era but still they have done something twice that the Bills have never done.

[The Wiz]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It certain cases that’s all you have to do. Like in Josh’s case this year.  Just look at the turnovers and the losses. Both matter to mvp voters.  
 

As for off ball LBers to be a teams most valuable player, tackles don’t cut it.  Turnovers and sacks separate the good from the greats.  Smiths 8 PBs are solid- but I don’t he how raking up a bunch of tackles and a PB every other game would make him more valuable that Lamar.  

Which is why Allen will never win MVP and why guys like Edmunds and Smith are pro bowlers.  The narrative is the lack of consistency with Allen (which to be fair, is accurate) but at the same time, the other guys will never win you the game on their own, Allen and Lamar can and have.

[dollars 2 donuts]

17 people.

 

17 people said after Jackson the second most important player in this League was not Allen...not McCaffery...not Purdy...

 

...but Dak.

 

...17 people.

 

I don't hate Dak, and I actually think people are too hard on him at times, but what I believe to be real, breathing, living people who walk upright on this earth came to this conclusion.

 

and for the benefit of the doubt I don't have one shred of proof that any of them are named "Helen Keller."*

 

 

(* Too soon?)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by dollars 2 donuts

[DapperCam]

4 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

17 people.

 

17 people said after Jackson the second most important player in this League was not Allen...not McCaffery...not Purdy...

 

...but Dak.

 

...17 people.

 

I don't hate Dak, and I actually think people are too hard on him at times, but what I believe to be real, breathing, living people who walk upright on this earth came to this conclusion.

 

and for the benefit of the doubt I don't have one shred of proof that any of them are named "Helen Keller."*

 

 

(* Too soon?)

 

 

 

 

 

Dak had more passing TDs than Lamar had total TDs, more passing yards than Lamar had total yards, less turnovers, a better completion percentage, a higher passer rating, and a lower sack %.
 

Basically in every measurable way Dak was better than Lamar this season, except his team had 1 more loss.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, balln said:

https://wtop.com/nfl/2024/02/panel-of-voters-for-ap-nfl-awards/
 

Haha ok. This is a joke.

I thought it was like old school newspaper / beat sports guys. 

BRUSCHI! ACHO!

 

edit : Vic is dead to me

 

I am shocked at this list. I too thought it was old school beat guys.

 

This is a list of talking heads. The types we throw into the talking heads thread because they’re practically useless in analysis.

[DCOrange]

6 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

17 people.

 

17 people said after Jackson the second most important player in this League was not Allen...not McCaffery...not Purdy...

 

...but Dak.

 

...17 people.

 

I don't hate Dak, and I actually think people are too hard on him at times, but what I believe to be real, breathing, living people who walk upright on this earth came to this conclusion.

 

and for the benefit of the doubt I don't have one shred of proof that any of them are named "Helen Keller."*

 

 

(* Too soon?)

 

 

 

 

 

He had a very good season despite no longer having the run game to carry the offense. I don’t think anyone believes he’s a top 5 QB in general but he’s probably in the back end of the top 10 and a lot of QBs had down years while he had maybe his best season to date. 
 

I think if you’re limiting yourself to just QBs, he was a top 3 MVP candidate at worst.

 

Having said that, I’m with Gunner here; I probably would have gone for Tyreek or CMC this season. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Is everyone done crying yet?

 

There will never be a MVP with an 11-6 team that has committed 23 turnovers, unless they've broken a record of some sort.  It's just not happening.  

 

Boomer Esiason won it with 19 turnovers. 

 

But he had 1 whole extra win (12 instead of 11).

[boyst]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The MVP is a regular season award.

 

I tried to believe in Lamar and that this year was different, but in my mind, he is Dak East and I won’t trust him in the playoffs until he wins it all, and maybe not even then.

agree fully. and he played his best year as a QB is what is amazing. he really did have a much better year playing the position.. he really isn't a good quarterback.

[Gregg]

5 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

He had a very good season despite no longer having the run game to carry the offense. I don’t think anyone believes he’s a top 5 QB in general but he’s probably in the back end of the top 10 and a lot of QBs had down years while he had maybe his best season to date. 
 

I think if you’re limiting yourself to just QBs, he was a top 3 MVP candidate at worst.

 

Having said that, I’m with Gunner here; I probably would have gone for Tyreek or CMC this season. 

 

Same here. CMC or Tyreek deserved it. At the end of the day, I just want Josh to win a Super Bowl for the Bills. These individual awards are nice, but a Super Bowl win is all that really matters.

[dollars 2 donuts]

18 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Dak had more passing TDs than Lamar had total TDs, more passing yards than Lamar had total yards, less turnovers, a better completion percentage, a higher passer rating, and a lower sack %.
 

Basically in every measurable way Dak was better than Lamar this season, except his team had 1 more loss.

 

17 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

He had a very good season despite no longer having the run game to carry the offense. I don’t think anyone believes he’s a top 5 QB in general but he’s probably in the back end of the top 10 and a lot of QBs had down years while he had maybe his best season to date. 
 

I think if you’re limiting yourself to just QBs, he was a top 3 MVP candidate at worst.

 

Having said that, I’m with Gunner here; I probably would have gone for Tyreek or CMC this season. 

 

 

Wonderful. Her probably sends his mom flowers on Mother's Day.  He's a good guy who had a good season and again I don't dislike him.

 

After this good season by this good guy, though, if I am starting an open draft I dare any of you on this Board with the second pick overall to take him.  

 

And I don't like basing the MVP upon "after Jackson's stats this guy is next."  Anyone can go right ahead and forget about Allen and go to McCaffery or Purdy...and honestly when I have written about this elsewhere I too had Hill above him.  Holy mackerel did that Miami team depend upon him, but also was a star who shined throughout the League for most of the season.  The Cowboys were a good home team, but were as soft as any of their iterations that they have put on the field for the last decade...and Dak was a healthy representation and vanguard for that smooshmellowness.

 

In short and very respectfully, I disagree with him being...the second Most Valuable Player in this League...by 17 people. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by dollars 2 donuts

[KDIGGZ]

Dak isn't the best player on his team. Maybe not even on his own offense. That's embarrassing. Parsons is the team mvp and Lamb had a great season too. Dak had a good season as well but again not the best of the bunch

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Change the format to fan voting!

'Vote early, vote often'.  Stake out the liquor stores where you get the ballots!

*
Nobody stuffs a ballot box for MVP like the Bills fans!

[DapperCam]

6 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

 

Wonderful. Her probably sends his mom flowers on Mother's Day.  He's a good guy who had a good season and again I don't dislike him.

 

After this good season by this good guy, though, if I am starting an open draft I dare any of you on this Board with the second pick overall to take him.  

 

And I don't like basing the MVP upon "after Jackson's stats this guy is next."  Anyone can go right ahead and forget about Allen and go to McCaffery or Purdy...and honestly when I have written about this elsewhere I too had Hill above him.  Holy mackerel did that Miami team depend upon him, but also was a star who shined throughout the League for most of the season.  The Cowboys were a good home team, but were as soft as any of their iterations that they have put on the field for the last decade...and Dak was a healthy representation and vanguard for that smooshmellowness.

 

In short and very respectfully, I disagree with him being...the second Most Valuable Player in this League...by 17 people. 

 

 

 

 

If Dak was soft, then Jackson was even softer.

 

The Ravens defense was so dominant, all Jackson had to do was play it safe and make sure he didn’t make negative plays. If you watch Lamar Jackson play, you will notice that he only throws to a player if they are already open (usually wide open). That is part of why his attempts are so low. It also reduces interceptions a lot.

 

Could you imagine if Allen only threw to a player if they were already open? He would never throw the ball.

[Brand J]

5 hours ago, balln said:

 

Race does account here. When you get a loud group of ppl in media and tv calling for Lamar for mvp. I’ll give you a big hint. ESPN - Swagu and Ryan Clark. He has a good / great game vs niners on national tv. The rest of those AP voters for mvp would get vilified if they didn’t pick Lamar - social media justice police would come after them. Not public vote but it’s subconscious now. It’s in their minds on some level. Of course Lamar didn’t win it bc they wanted to give it to a black guy. These things are complex and more subtle. And I’m not even saying it’s right or wrong. But it does have an effect 
 

 

To believe that Lamar’s skin color contributed to why he won the award, is it your assertion that if Josh Allen had the same season as Lamar (lower TDs/lower turnovers/more dominant wins) that he wouldn’t have won it because he’s white? That Swagu, Ryan Clark, and the other “loud group of ppl in the media (implied hint: Black folks)” wouldn’t have talked him up because he’s not a Black guy? And therefore wouldn’t have won the award? Is that it? 

[Toyo321]

Lamar and Dak are just going to continue to garner praise from these MVP panel voters based on the fact that they truely do not understand what MVP means.

 

Lamar did not carry his team this year.  End of story their Defense did. Lamar is the most over rated QB of all time.  He will never win his team a SB.

 

Dak was a shell of himself when he was on the road.  When he was at home they were putting up crazy offense stats all year.

His team was over rated and played like crap against .500 or higher win percentage teams.

 

Of all the players that were over looked, Josh and McCaffrey should have been the two finalist.

 

But until Josh stops laying eggs against teams they need and should beat.  He will never win a MVP.  His losses this year were not all on him but the Jets, Broncos & Patriots games were damn ugly for sure.

Edited February 9 by Toyo321

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Lamar and Dak are just going to continue to garner praise from these MVP panel voters based on the fact that they truely do not understand what MVP means.

 

Lamar did not carry his team this year.  End of story their Defense did. Lamar is the most over rated QB of all time.  He will never win his team a SB.

 

Dak was a shell of himself when he was on the road.  When he was at home they were putting up crazy offense stats all year.

His team was over rated and played like crap against .500 or higher win percentage teams.

 

Of all the players that were over looked, Josh and McCaffrey should have been the two finalist.

 

But until Josh stops laying eggs against teams they need and should beat.  He will never win a MVP.  His losses this year were not all on him but the Jets, Broncos & Patriots games were damn ugly for sure.

I will add I do often wonder if Buffalo being a smaller market plays into this. 

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Boomer Esiason won it with 19 turnovers. 

 

But he had 1 whole extra win (12 instead of 11).

 

So long ago. How many of this set of voters were on voters then? Peter King possibly?

[SaulGoodman]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

Sorry, are we talking about Frank Clark in 2023 or Frank Clark that had 10.5 sacks in 12 playoff games in KC?  Right.  He was a force in every playoff run except the year Cinci took you guys down.  
 

Mahomes played in every playoffs game….. sorry, but being banged up isn’t being injured.  Everyone is banged up this time of year.

 

yeah- mcdermott was great all year without Milano, white, von and daquan.  Then Bernard, Benford and Rapp got hurt and missed the KC game.  Kelce had a field day vs Bernard’s replacement AJ Klein….. as did pacheco.  A plethora of starters were either out or ineffective due to injury.

 

KC has been VERY lucky with regards to Injury.  The Bills have not.  Winning Super Bowls takes a lot of luck along with great play and coaching.  Grats on the stars aligning

 

I think a high ankle sprain definitely qualifies as an injury. You don't often see QBs playing well with one, if they play at all, and Mahomes was limited by it. Aside from that, KC was missing numerous players in the AFC title game and Mahomes was throwing to practice squad guys. The WR corps was mediocre at full strength, so imagine the ability of the practice squad receivers. I wouldn't say their luck was great throughout last year's run, and they didn't have much luck in 2020. Third string OL and Mahomes missed an entire half in the divisional round. 

 

KC's currently down three starters on defense, including their best edge rusher. They've also been without McKinnon and their best offensive lineman, among other contributors. Could definitely be worse, but they're not perfectly healthy. 

 

Missing a SB appearance due to Dee Ford being lined up a couple inches offside was pretty brutal luck. Plus the bobbled INT on a perfect throw in OT vs the Bengals in 2021. If the stars had consistently aligned for Mahomes, he'd have 6 SB appearances in 6 years, and probably another ring or two. 

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

10 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If Dak was soft, then Jackson was even softer.

 

The Ravens defense was so dominant, all Jackson had to do was play it safe and make sure he didn’t make negative plays. If you watch Lamar Jackson play, you will notice that he only throws to a player if they are already open (usually wide open). That is part of why his attempts are so low. It also reduces interceptions a lot.

 

Could you imagine if Allen only threw to a player if they were already open? He would never throw the ball.

 

 

I agree, but I do get why Jackson got it.  Heck, it was just plain the best player on the best team and I can live with that.  Honestly, too, this was a year where all these guys, these top 5-6 all contributed something and there could be an argument for each of them.

 

...and it does sort of make this so weird, because I am not arguing about who won it, but over why so many picked a particular guy for number 2.

 

The Cowboys with Dak, albeit talented and interesting, were exactly who ALL OF US thought they were.  Additionally, I know or believe that the voting does take place before the playoffs, but that said was ANYBODY surprised at the Packers embarrassing them even at home?

 

Also I am not mad about Allen not getting it...but given this guy's generational talent can we please get him all the tools he deserves, even if it is just for one season. 

 

Can we not do to this guy what the Sabres shamefully did to a historic talent like Hasek...waste him and then wonder what could have been?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by dollars 2 donuts

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So long ago. How many of this set of voters were on voters then? Peter King possibly?

 

Montana won it with 20 turnovers too.

 

Back when it wasn’t just a list of talking heads. I am downright shocked at the voting list now. It’s not just a few garbage names now - half the list is questionable.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Montana won it with 20 turnovers too.

 

Back when it wasn’t just a list of talking heads. I am downright shocked at the voting list now. It’s not just a few garbage names now - half the list is questionable.

 

 

I think that is an exaggeration, but there are definitely some questionable names. I think in this era it is pretty clear the award almost always goes to the QB of a #1 seed unless someone else really has been dominant - Matt Ryan in his year and Manning in a year where I think he was the #2 seed being the obvious examples.  

[Einstein]

Brett Favre also won it 3 years in a row with 21 turnovers, 19 turnovers, and 22 turnovers.

 

Every one of those years, he had less TD’s than Allen had this year.

 

And while winning only 11 games one of those years.