Is Mahomes at Brady Levels?

[Bruffalo]

13 hours ago, zow2 said:

The recent dynasties included an all-world QB and an all-world TE

 

Brady had Gronk

Mahomes has Kelce

 

Allen - hopefully Kincaid becomes the centerpiece. He has the ability.

 

 

This point is probably understated in the NFL world.  A world beater at TE is such a mismatch advantage that other teams need to completely change the way the opposing defense has to cover. It stops teams from playing "their game". 

 

Allen hasn't had that yet.  DKx2 is a pretty great combo though, if Kincaid keeps developing they may be a force. 

[Goin Breakdown]

Praising the Mahomes machine on the Bills board. 

[HOUSE]

Reminds me of a thread found on the Chiefs board in 2021

Coincidence,  I think not

[The 9 Isles]

…..and the Bills are responsible for hading him over to the Chiefs. 

the curse is real 🥲

 

[Nextmanup]

Yes, pretty much.  He's off to a great start.  He isn't going anywhere.

 

Only time will tell if he can produce as much as Brady did, but I think he'll do it.

 

And yes, Mahomes, Reid, and KC, are the new Tom Brady, BB, and New England.

 

And yes, it sucks.

 

 

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Patriots teams were really well rounded with a great defense and run game.

 

The Chiefs defense gave up less points in 3 playoff games than the Bills defense gave up in 2 playoff games.

[FilthyBeast]

If we are comparing their first 6 years, Mahomes will be better when he wins his 3rd superbowl next Sunday because he not only matches Brady in titles, but will have much better numbers and also have been to one more superbowl, albeit a loss and ironically to Brady.

 

Also lot of people forget that Brady wasn't putting up astronomical numbers early on his career when he won his first 3 superbowls with the Patriots. Those teams were all about defense and special teams leading way which is why it's silly to discount Belichik and how much of a factor he truly was during his illustrious coaching career.

 

This is why I still fear 20 or so years down the road people are going to look back and truly realize the mistake this franchise made passing on Mahomes and essentially trading him to the Chiefs. Especially if Allen never ends up winning a championship here mainly because of Mahomes standing in his way.

[Matt_In_NH]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs defense gave up less points in 3 playoff games than the Bills defense gave up in 2 playoff games.

Not all that surprising They have a good defense this year 

Edited February 2 by Matt_In_NH

[Bill Grundy]

I think he’s better than Brady 

[Julio Hopkins]

Unless a Spygate related event happens to Mahomes in the next decade, he's better than Brady.  

[Buffalo03]

13 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Right now I’d rather he be Rivers than the current Chargers QB….at least Rivers knows how to get his team to the playoffs 

I think the problem with the Chargers of recent times was Brandon Staley. We will find out soon enough 

[Buffalo03]

36 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

If we are comparing their first 6 years, Mahomes will be better when he wins his 3rd superbowl next Sunday because he not only matches Brady in titles, but will have much better numbers and also have been to one more superbowl, albeit a loss and ironically to Brady.

 

Also lot of people forget that Brady wasn't putting up astronomical numbers early on his career when he won his first 3 superbowls with the Patriots. Those teams were all about defense and special teams leading way which is why it's silly to discount Belichik and how much of a factor he truly was during his illustrious coaching career.

 

This is why I still fear 20 or so years down the road people are going to look back and truly realize the mistake this franchise made passing on Mahomes and essentially trading him to the Chiefs. Especially if Allen never ends up winning a championship here mainly because of Mahomes standing in his way.

Not really. Tom Brady during those first few Super Bowls was like Montana and Bill Walsh. Walsh was a good coach but he doesn't win Super bowls without Montana. If Belichick had any other QB, he would have been lucky to win one or even go to one in that time frame. Just how it is. 

[Brand J]

Two ruthless tormentors.

[TheWei44]

The more interesting question, perhaps, is what did Tampa/Brady/defense do to beat the Chiefs with Mahomes in the Super Bowl?!  Maybe a blueprint for us?  I'm mostly kidding, but it's one stark example of Chiefs with Mahomes failing/having a bad game in the playoffs!

[AlfaBill]

15 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Can we put the Mahomes threads in a different forum please?

 

He doesn’t play for the Bills. Yes he’s good. Yes Josh is also good. Yes he is beatable. Yes he has beaten the Bills in the playoffs often.

 

Cool.

Me thinks some Bills fans are really Chefs fans. 

1 hour ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

Reminds me of a thread found on the Chiefs board in 2021

Coincidence,  I think not

Mr 2x is likely a Chiefs fan who has nothing better to do than troll

[FilthyBeast]

55 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Not really. Tom Brady during those first few Super Bowls was like Montana and Bill Walsh. Walsh was a good coach but he doesn't win Super bowls without Montana. If Belichick had any other QB, he would have been lucky to win one or even go to one in that time frame. Just how it is. 

 

Coaching matters, and it's a big part of the reason why guys like Brady/Mahomes/Montana etc became who they were because the right systems and supporting casts were in place.

 

And I'm not going to necessarily disagree about Belichik not having the accolades he does right now if Brady was never in the picture, but he's proven his worth going back to pre Brady when he was with the Giants as their DC during 2 superbowl runs there, including with a backup QB that beat the Bills in the only real shot this team had in those 4 straight SB's to win a championship.

 

Getting back to Mahomes though, obviously the next narrative he's going to have to dispel is winning without Reid like Brady did without Belichik (and with a completely different team), and that day will likely come sooner than later since Reid is not the same age Belichik was when those Pats teams started winning superbowls with Brady and rumors still floating around he could retire as soon as next week after the superbowl, win or lose.

[Mikie2times]

18 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Me thinks some Bills fans are really Chefs fans. 

Mr 2x is likely a Chiefs fan who has nothing better to do than troll

I'm playing the long game, 20 years and 5,000 posts of trolling 😂

[Buffalo03]

20 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Coaching matters, and it's a big part of the reason why guys like Brady/Mahomes/Montana etc became who they were because the right systems and supporting casts were in place.

 

And I'm not going to necessarily disagree about Belichik not having the accolades he does right now if Brady was never in the picture, but he's proven his worth going back to pre Brady when he was with the Giants as their DC during 2 superbowl runs there, including with a backup QB that beat the Bills in the only real shot this team had in those 4 straight SB's to win a championship.

 

Getting back to Mahomes though, obviously the next narrative he's going to have to dispel is winning without Reid like Brady did without Belichik (and with a completely different team), and that day will likely come sooner than later since Reid is not the same age Belichik was when those Pats teams started winning superbowls with Brady and rumors still floating around he could retire as soon as next week after the superbowl, win or lose.

You do realize pre Brady he was a failure as a Browns head coach, right? He went 36-44 in 5 seasons there with 1 playoff season and post Brady he hasn't had any success either. And Parcells was the HC of those 2 Giants Super Bowls. The Bills would have won if they weren't so stubborn about their game plan. Belichick himself said that they invited the Bills to run the whole game and the Bills chose not to. When they did, Thurman went for 135 yards on 15 carries. Imagine if he gets 25 or 30 carries. We get a Lombardi. The Bills stubbornness is not something to give Belichick credit for

[Bills Bud]

Like I tell people that think Lebron is better than Jordan, count the rings

[Einstein]

You can't look at stats. Brady played the first half of his career in a different era. For example, the leading passer in 2002 had 28 TD's. The leader passer in 2022 had 41 TD's. Big difference. 

Stats aside, if the game is on the line and I have to choose 1 QB to lead a game-winning drive... I'm picking Brady every time. 

1) Brady is simply cold as ice in game winning situations.

 

2) Mahomes is a Jalen Hurts idiotic fumble away from being 1-2 in the Super Bowl.

3) Brady won those first 3 Super Bowls with a very mediocre WR room. He never had a Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce in those first 3 SB wins.

 

Mahomes CAN pass Brady at some point. But he is not there yet. Not even close actually.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

What has Allen accomplished over Rivers?

A lot.

Allen has as many playoff wins in 6 years of playing as Rivers had in 17 years.

Allen also has more playoff TD's in 6 years of playing as Rivers had in 17 years.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You can't look at stats. Brady played the first half of his career in a different era. For example, the leading passer in 2002 had 28 TD's. The leader passer in 2022 had 41 TD's. Big difference. 

Stats aside, if the game is on the line and I have to choose 1 QB to lead a game-winning drive... I'm picking Brady every time. 

1) Brady is simply cold as ice in game winning situations.

 

2) Mahomes is a Jalen Hurts idiotic fumble away from being 1-2 in the Super Bowl.

3) Brady won those first 3 Super Bowls with a very mediocre WR room. He never had a Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce in those first 3 SB wins.

 

Mahomes CAN pass Brady at some point. But he is not there yet. Not even close actually.

Couldn't agree more about the stats. 

[BillMafia716ix]

Career wise Tom Brady is better. But at this point in his career Mahomes is better. Will he end up with 7 rings? I doubt it  but he’s our kryptonite right now. If we trying to get to the bowl we gotta beat that guy. 

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, Bills Bud said:

Like I tell people that think Lebron is better than Jordan, count the rings

Not applicable in this case.  Mahomes still has a lot of prime years left

[Einstein]

51 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

Not applicable in this case.  Mahomes still has a lot of prime years left

Statistically, it gets a lot harder the deeper into your prime you go.

Which is why many of us are urgent to get Allen to the SB. 

In the past 30 years, only 2 QB's not named Brady/Manning have won a Super Bowl over 30 years of age. That was Drew Brees (15 years ago), Brad Johnson (22 years ago) and John Elway (26 years ago).

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

Statistically, it gets a lot harder the deeper into your prime you go.

Which is why many of us are urgent to get Allen to the SB. 

In the past 30 years, only 2 QB's not named Brady/Manning have won a Super Bowl over 30 years of age. That was Drew Brees (15 years ago), Brad Johnson (22 years ago) and John Elway (26 years ago).

I would say if he belongs in this conversation he would have tp join Brady/Manning with several. 

[90sBills]

5 hours ago, TheWei44 said:

The more interesting question, perhaps, is what did Tampa/Brady/defense do to beat the Chiefs with Mahomes in the Super Bowl?!  Maybe a blueprint for us?  I'm mostly kidding, but it's one stark example of Chiefs with Mahomes failing/having a bad game in the playoffs!

 

KC had 4 OL starters out helped. Mahomes also played with turf toe and had to get surgery two days after that superbowl. If the Bills are ever in a playoff game with KC with those conditions they better win. lol 

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

This point is probably understated in the NFL world.  A world beater at TE is such a mismatch advantage that other teams need to completely change the way the opposing defense has to cover. It stops teams from playing "their game". 

 

Allen hasn't had that yet.  DKx2 is a pretty great combo though, if Kincaid keeps developing they may be a force. 

Knox needs to catch the ball and then it could be lethal.  I love the way Knox plays, but he’s unreliable at best in the passing game.

[BillsPride12]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Statistically, it gets a lot harder the deeper into your prime you go.

Which is why many of us are urgent to get Allen to the SB. 

In the past 30 years, only 2 QB's not named Brady/Manning have won a Super Bowl over 30 years of age. That was Drew Brees (15 years ago), Brad Johnson (22 years ago) and John Elway (26 years ago).

I get that.  And I highly doubt Mahomes will end up winning as many Super Bowls as Brady did but if you are doing a comparison of their careers you can't knock Mahomes for not having as many Super Bowl wins as a guy who had a 20 year career.  That's an insane take 

[T master]

No -  i think he is athletically way better than Brady ever was but that's about it Brady had all the other stuff that made him more than likely the best to ever play the game .

 

To me it's almost like those people that make the comparison of Lebron & MJ, sure Lebron may be good and have a few championship trophy's in his collection but MJ had a 3 peat went away the Bulls lost with out him then he comes back & does another 3 peat no comparison sorry .

 

If there will ever be a determining factor of which is better is if Mahomes & Reid go on to win 7 or more SB's then he can be crowned, no matter the stats the championship rings are the tail of the tape on this one & unfortunately for Bills fans Brady is the king until someone knocks him off the mountain !

[BigDingus]

He's at way better than "Brady levels" in terms of stats, All-Pros & MVPs (at this point in their careers), but behind in Super Bowl wins.

 

More talented than Brady was, more athletic than Brady was, but there's zero chance he ever touches 7 x Super Bowl wins.

[machine gun kelly]

20 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Brady also has the head to head Super Bowl win. Mahomes is probably going to need 8 rings to clearly pass the GOAT. That means he'll probably need to go to about 12 Super Bowls. I sure hope he doesn't come close to that as long as Allen is still playing. 

 

I’ll root hard for the 49ers.

[SaulGoodman]

On 2/2/2024 at 7:58 PM, T master said:

No -  i think he is athletically way better than Brady ever was but that's about it Brady had all the other stuff that made him more than likely the best to ever play the game .

 

To me it's almost like those people that make the comparison of Lebron & MJ, sure Lebron may be good and have a few championship trophy's in his collection but MJ had a 3 peat went away the Bulls lost with out him then he comes back & does another 3 peat no comparison sorry .

 

If there will ever be a determining factor of which is better is if Mahomes & Reid go on to win 7 or more SB's then he can be crowned, no matter the stats the championship rings are the tail of the tape on this one & unfortunately for Bills fans Brady is the king until someone knocks him off the mountain !

 

TB could have started Blaine Gabbert and won that SB. Same with the last Patriots' Super Bowl (Rams scored 3 points). And Brady's first 2-3 rings were won by defense/running game. He was a game manager for the first 3-4 years. 

 

No rational person thinks Mahomes needs 7 rings to be in that conversation. A couple more is enough. Especially when you factor in rampant cheating at NE. Some may claim it didn't make much of a difference, but I disagree pretty strongly. I think it gave them a huge advantage for several years. There's a reason they continued to perpetuate a complicated and time-consuming process that involved several people for years. 

 

All things considered, I don't even consider Brady the GOAT now. I think it's Montana that Mahomes is chasing. 

[Green Lightning]

If Mahomes were a Bill he still be looking for his 1st Lombardi. Reid knows how to win close important games. McD does not.

[SaulGoodman]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:24 PM, BigDingus said:

He's at way better than "Brady levels" in terms of stats, All-Pros & MVPs (at this point in their careers), but behind in Super Bowl wins.

 

More talented than Brady was, more athletic than Brady was, but there's zero chance he ever touches 7 x Super Bowl wins.

 

There obviously isn't a high percentage chance of anyone matching 7 Super Bowl rings, but zero chance? For someone who has appeared in 4 in 6 years, and his worst year is an OT loss in the conference title game? Of course there's a chance. Don't forget that these last two years were rebuilding years. Tyreek Hill trade, defense full of rookies and 2nd-year players, young offense outside of a few positions. They weren't expected to go to back to back Super Bowls. They were expected to take a solid step back.

 

It's pointless to speculate beyond the next few years, but next year's Chiefs team could be their best ever if they land a solid receiver or two and continue drafting well. If he wins next Sunday and again next season, he'd only need three more after playing less than a third of the number of seasons as Brady. 

 

 

[st pete gogolak]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:13 PM, zow2 said:

The recent dynasties included an all-world QB and an all-world TE

 

Brady had Gronk

Mahomes has Kelce

 

Allen - hopefully Kincaid becomes the centerpiece. He has the ability.

 

 

Quick. Who was NE’s TE in Brady’s first three SB’s?

[st pete gogolak]

I enjoy Mike Greenberg and Get Up but yesterday and today they ran segments entitled “Does a Super Bowl Win Make Mahones an Immortal?”.  The point being that no NFL player has won two MVP’s and three championships in his first seven seasons.  Only players who have accomplished that are Bird, Russell, LaFluer, Musial, Mantle and DiMaggio (admittedly a pretty awesome list).  
 

This stuff drives me crazy. Football is the ultimate team game. It’s not tennis. It’s not golf. Heck, even in basketball one player has immeasurably more impact on the game than any one football player.   Please tell me that Brady would have won 7 SB’s if Brady’s Colts had to beat Manning’s Patriots every year?  And I give Brady enormous credit for (1) winning 4 rings after age 36 (just insane) and (2) winning a title with the Bucs.  
 

If the Bills had kept their draft pick and selected Mahones would he be going for his third ring this Sunday?  Mahones is good. He is very good.  But please, please stop measuring QB’s in a vacuum based solely on the number of rings that they have.

[Coffeesforclosers]

He's the golden boy of the league, because he generates interest if you love him, or if you hate him.

 

So there's no downside in terms of publicity to D-ride Mahomes, his annoying brother, and his karen of a wife. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

I enjoy Mike Greenberg and Get Up but yesterday and today they ran segments entitled “Does a Super Bowl Win Make Mahones an Immortal?”.  The point being that no NFL player has won two MVP’s and three championships in his first seven seasons.  Only players who have accomplished that are Bird, Russell, LaFluer, Musial, Mantle and DiMaggio (admittedly a pretty awesome list).  
 

This stuff drives me crazy. Football is the ultimate team game. It’s not tennis. It’s not golf. Heck, even in basketball one player has immeasurably more impact on the game than any one football player.   Please tell me that Brady would have won 7 SB’s if Brady’s Colts had to beat Manning’s Patriots every year?  And I give Brady enormous credit for (1) winning 4 rings after age 36 (just insane) and (2) winning a title with the Bucs.  
 

If the Bills had kept their draft pick and selected Mahones would he be going for his third ring this Sunday?  Mahones is good. He is very good.  But please, please stop measuring QB’s in a vacuum based solely on the number of rings that they have.

Just a question without passing judgement. Would your feelings be different if it was the Bills going for their third ring this weekend with Allen being a 2 time MVP and the same was being said? No wrong answer.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Greenberg does well what his mission is, to be over the top controversial.

 

I am just grateful the Jets were so bad so we done have to hear his JETS JETS JETS JETS praise.  I vividly recall how giddy Greenberg was with Zach Wilson after his first pre season game claiming he would be better than Joe Namath (not really too hard).

 

I have always thought the overemphasis on winning a SB judging QBs is a joke.  A lot of media pundits claim Jim Kelly wasn't great because he never got a ring as if he was the one that missed a 47 yard field goal.