Jump to content

Playoff defense not just bad, next level awful


Mikie2times

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Rudolph was light years beyond trubisky and Pickett…it’s not even remotely close.  Their offense was above average with Rudolph which was the only reason they found themselves in the playoffs.  Dropped 34 on the bengals and 30 on the Seahawks who were both fighting for their playoff lives

 

this is the kind of revisionist history about bills wins that I’m talking about lol 

 

Like Joe Flacco being hot until he throws back to back pick sixes right? The bottom line is nobody believes Rudolph was the long-term answer and that includes for the 2023 season. It was only a matter of time until he turned back into a pumpkin. God help the Steelers if they go into the season with Rudolph as their 2024 starter. If the answer is Rudolph, Pickett or Trubitzky, then it is time to re-evaluate the question. 

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're just going to play dumb on this and expect people to take you seriously?

I think the answer is in between both arguments somewhere…the chiefs average a ridiculous 32 ppg in the playoffs since mahomes took over it’s not terribly surprising they score points against defenses that were good in the regular season..  I don’t think the bills are failing much worse than anyone else in their path but they certainly need to improve obviously 

 

Its easy to be pessimistic based on the playoff h2h I can’t argue that but I think bills chiefs games are gonna be toss ups for the foreseeable future..  If we had one of Milano/bernard for that game I really think that was a likely win 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Like Joe Flacco being hot until he throws back to back pick sixes right? The bottom line is nobody believes Rudolph was the long-term answer and that includes for the 2023 season. It was only a matter of time until he turned back into a pumpkin. God help the Steelers if they go into the season with Rudolph as their 2024 starter. If the answer is Rudolph, Pickett or Trubitzky, then it is time to re-evaluate the question. 

Flacco was a pumpkin the whole time…the dude was turning the ball over like crazy but no one was paying any attention for whatever reason.  I think he had 10 turnovers in 5 games 

 

nobody is saying Rudolph is the long term answer lol you’re kind of changing the question there.  He was just the best qb on that roster by a long shot.  To hear people say ‘you’re lucky you didn’t see Pickett’ is absolutely laughable 

Edited by Generic_Bills_Fan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 

 

nobody is saying Rudolph is the long term answer lol you’re kind of changing the question there.  He was just the best qb on that roster by a long shot.  To hear people say ‘you’re lucky you didn’t see Pickett’ is absolutely laughable 

 

Well that I agree with. They are all garbage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Billsturfwars said:

"Sean McDermott's Bills Defense in the last four playoff eliminations: (Chiefs x 3, Bengals x 1)

 

38 Drives

 

16 Touchdowns

8 Field Goals

6 Punts

6 Kneel-downs/End of Half

1 Missed Field Goal

1 Turnover

 

134 Points allowed"

 

yeah; I think the playoff defense has pretty much sucked.

 

The only thing that post was missing was a mike drop.   Very telling numbers.  I'm reading those and take out the kneel-downs and end of halves, and teams have scored/attempted to score(missed FG) on 25 of 32 drives, not good at all.   The 134 points is 33.5 a game, that's never going to win a championship, and were weren't banged up in all those years, so that excuse goes out the window.

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The obvious counterpoint to FireChans bringing up other games against weaker opponents is that the playoffs are single elimination. So the only thing that ultimately matters is what you do in your final game. We all know the defense can stop the Mason Rudolphs and Skylar Thompsons of the NFL. I thought the goal was to win a Super Bowl. Until we can at least slow down the Joe Burrows and Pat Mahomes of the NFL, we aren't coming close to a Super Bowl win.

 

Hopefully one more playoff run that ends with an abysmal defensive performance will be enough to convince the absent billionaire who owns our team that it's time for a change at the top. If we're heading into Allen's age 29 season with McDermott still in charge coming off a 6th consecutive disappointing playoff exit, I will be convinced that the Allen era will end without a single Lombardi. Which is really just depressing to consider.

Nobody can stop Patrick Mahomes. Allen should demand a trade to the NFC if he wants to play in a Super Bowl. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

Ravens held the Chiefs to 17 points yesterday.  I’d say that’s a pretty good job.

 

After the Chiefs scored TDs on their first 2 drives, they were held to 3 points the rest of the game. If the Ravens don't fumble the ball at the goal line there is a good chance, they win the game. Great play by the Chiefs defender to knock the ball out.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Been told over and over on this forum that the offense has been at fault for playoff losses, including last week.  Guess those people probably won't respond in this thread.

 

Well it sure doesn't help when the offensive players drop wide open passes or even the contested catches that they usually catch so i'd say they share the blame and it's not Josh he put the ball IN THEIR HANDS & they have 2 jobs get open, & CATCH THE BALL .

 

Sheffield had 2 drops, Diggs couple, & Cook 1 that's 5 chances at a game winning score and that's not on the coaches or the D so i'd say there is something to those that say it's on the offense because in part it was ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, HappyDays said:

All year the book on the Chiefs was score more than 20 points and you win the game. The Ravens game ends up being the same script.

 

The Bills end the season being the ONLY team all year to score more than 20 on the Chiefs and lose the game. Another frustrating end to the season caused solely by our defense. And I see no path to fixing it next year. We're stuck in neutral. ****

 

Diggs makes that catch in the final drive and our win probability for that game probably goes up to like 70%.

Edited by RiotAct
Fixed atrocious spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I don’t know.  Did you watch the game?

 

you posted “Nobody can stop Mahomes”.  The Ravens D did a pretty good job of doing so yesterday 

They didn’t stop him from getting to the Super Bowl. 4/5 years. We are unfortunately “also rans” to what may be the greatest dynasty ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I knew our defense in the playoffs was bad, but I didn't realize it was at this level of bad.

 

These are our DVOA rankings since 2020, which are all above average with 2021 and 2022 being elite. 

 

2020: 11th

2021: 2nd

2022: 1st

2023: 12th

 

This is EPA allowed in our playoff losses along with the EPA each of these teams posted in other playoff games that same year.  I included how that EPA ranked on the season for that team. 

 

Kansas City 2023: vs Buffalo, 11.85 EPA 5th best on the season

Other playoff games that year: Miami EPA 9.58, 7th best

 

Bengals 2022: vs Buffalo, 22.03 EPA, 3rd best on the season

Other Playoff games that year: KC 4.06 EPA 10th best, Ravens .7 EPA 16th best

 

Kansas City 2021: vs Buffalo, 32.62 EPA, 3rd best on the season

Other playoff games that year: Steelers 16.09 EPA, 9th best, Bengals 11.28 EPA 12th best

 

Kansas City 2020: Vs Buffalo, 30.34 1st best on the season

Other playoff games that year: Browns 19.09 EPA 9th best, Tampa Bay: -7.90 EPA 19th best

 

For context, Kansas City has not had an EPA in the 20's in a playoff game one time since 2020 but they have had 2 games vs us in the 30's.  The Bengals have not had a offensive EPA over 10 in any playoff game in the Burrow era but they had one in the 20's against us. It's not just that we underperform, it's that we allow historically excellent performances from these teams with a defense that rates either above average or far above average in the regular season. 

@NewEra

 

Should he just get over it? Or can you finally answer "What makes you think McDermott can get us to the Superbowl?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They didn’t stop him from getting to the Super Bowl. 4/5 years. We are unfortunately “also rans” to what may be the greatest dynasty ever. 

 I don’t think they’ll catch the pats…if Chris jones leaves the party’s over imo.   he’s the glue holding that defense together…the division could tighten up for them if jones walks 

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Ravens defense stopped him 6 times yesterday. We have stopped him 4 times in 3 playoff games.

 

Go on. Pretend you meant something different.

We must be holding them to more fgs than other teams with only 4 total stops cuz we are not far off the chiefs average playoff ppg. 

Edited by Generic_Bills_Fan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it hard to judge the 2024 games simply because i think we all knew missing these guys was a lot to overcome.  

 

Milano

Bernard
Spector

White

Benford 

Phillips

 

With banged up players also playing 

Dodson

Douglas 

T. Johnson

DQ Jones

 

Starting a 3rd string LB, and a backup LB in a sling - neither of which can handle a player like Kelce on their best day.  A CB with a knee injury, another coming off a concussion.  Not to mention... the regular dings players pick up over the course of a long season.  Just too much, KC caught us at the right time and their offensive line was able to pretty much dominate the LOS.  

 

As much as we need a WR, we need a lot of help on the defensive line - and likely a pair of safeties.  Von was a swing and a miss - and they can't really swing again til he's gone after next year most likely.  3T was oliver and no one.  1T was DQ and Joseph (both free agents).  

13 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 I don’t think they’ll catch the pats…if Chris jones leaves the party’s over imo.   he’s the glue holding that defense together…the division could tighten up for them if jones walks 

We must be holding them to more fgs than other teams with only 4 total stops cuz we are not far off the chiefs average playoff ppg. 

 

Their offensive line is very very good.  Even with Taylor being a penalty magnet, he's still a pretty talented player.  Thuney's a monster.  Humphrey's a monster.

 

Defensively - they put a lot of emphasis on LB's.  They cover, they tackle, and they blitz.  Spagnuolo's disguising helps with lots of this, but they have a great set of linebackers that make plays all over the field.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 I don’t think they’ll catch the pats…if Chris jones leaves the party’s over imo.   he’s the glue holding that defense together…the division could tighten up for them if jones walks 

We must be holding them to more fgs than other teams with only 4 total stops cuz we are not far off the chiefs average playoff ppg. 

 

This is an underrated point about Chris Jones.  

 

Not only is he a menace himself, but he elevates the other (good, not great) players around him like Karlaftis.  And is the driver of that pass rush. 

 

But I'm starting to resign myself to the idea that they will always figure something out.  They lost Hill, nailed the draft with all the extra picks and now we're lamenting Jones and Kelce.  It is what it is.  They will always be there in the end.. the Bills need to get better.. not hope for the Chiefs to get worse. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching the Ravens D get worked early in the game, and then just force punt after punt put things in perspective for all of us.

 

On the one hand, the Ravens O just looked bad, and the Chiefs were under no threat to press for point, yet we all know Mahomes and Reid would light up the board even if they weren't pressed and yet the Ravens D just clamped them.

 

We need to get our ***** in gear on D.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I find it hard to judge the 2024 games simply because i think we all knew missing these guys was a lot to overcome.  

 

Milano

Bernard
Spector

White

Benford 

Phillips

 

With banged up players also playing 

Dodson

Douglas 

T. Johnson

DQ Jones

 

Starting a 3rd string LB, and a backup LB in a sling - neither of which can handle a player like Kelce on their best day.  A CB with a knee injury, another coming off a concussion.  Not to mention... the regular dings players pick up over the course of a long season.  Just too much, KC caught us at the right time and their offensive line was able to pretty much dominate the LOS.  

 

As much as we need a WR, we need a lot of help on the defensive line - and likely a pair of safeties.  Von was a swing and a miss - and they can't really swing again til he's gone after next year most likely.  3T was oliver and no one.  1T was DQ and Joseph (both free agents).  

Were beaten down by losing to kc in the playoffs so many times which is understandable but it’s honestly kind of crazy that game was close given the LB situation lol and not only was it close, we probably win if we make one more play.  Klein got absolutely victimized all night 

 

von was ironically really the only noticeable defensive player for me in that game 😂. Maybe there’s a shot he bounces back next season 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need a more violent downhill defense.  Those are the defenses that perform in the playoffs.  Players are banged up and the film is out there after 18 or 19 games.  Undersized defenses that rely on confusing guys like Mahomes or even Burrow don’t hold up.  

  • Thank you (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a tough decision because we've been competitive but at the end of the day, it feels like we could be doing more. Watching the AFCG yesterday, at no point did I think that Baltimore or KC were above the Bills in any way. But in these big games, with the margins so tight, we are coming up short and a lot of that has to do with the defense not holding its end of the bargain and game time coaching errors.

 

It appears whatever your opinion of McDermott is, he will be back next year but it is no longer such a contrarian thought to want to move in a new direction. I'm slowly starting to come around with this idea but I will reserve my judgement until the next season is complete.

 

I do still think favourably of Beane even though the Von Miller contract is a real wart in his resume.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

We need a more violent downhill defense.  Those are the defenses that perform in the playoffs.  Players are banged up and the film is out there after 18 or 19 games.  Undersized defenses that rely on confusing guys like Mahomes or even Burrow don’t hold up.  

I think you’ve gotta play man and hold in the playoffs because it’s likely not getting called 

chiefs got away with a lot of questionable grabs on big plays as they often do lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

aside from scheme issues, mcd is too addicted to smaller, older, and unathletic players.

 

they get worn down, and injured.

 

i know gunner bills will say williams shouldn't be in football because he doesn't know how to line up, but our only stop of kc came when get got the nod over a man who literally decided he should no longer play football.

 

im not saying mcd needs to be as good or creative as billicheck on d, but he should have some kind of adaptability so that he doesn't need to bring players out of retirement to start in the playoffs (same with our o last season with beez and brown getting taken off teh couch as we were super bowl hopefuls).

 

the mix of some kind of super complication that evidently keeps our more talented young players on the bench, with a simply predictability that has us dropping huge turds in the playoffs just gets old.

 

we def need a new dc.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Were beaten down by losing to kc in the playoffs so many times which is understandable but it’s honestly kind of crazy that game was close given the LB situation lol and not only was it close, we probably win if we make one more play.  Klein got absolutely victimized all night 

 

von was ironically really the only noticeable defensive player for me in that game 😂. Maybe there’s a shot he bounces back next season 

 

I mean Buffalo limited them to 50 plays on offense... 2 field goal stops.  A Takeaway in the red zone.  What we failed to do was create more 3rd downs - they were 1/5.  I'd assume Von came in some of those situations.  

 

23 pass plays at almost 10 Y/A.  17 RB carries for 128.  They were moving in chunks all night - just a couple of plays here and there makes all the difference.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Maynard said:

Cool, let’s run it back then. Insanity now. 

I think mcdermott showed the last 2 months he’s capable of evolving.  But let’s see what he does this off-season.  The Epenesa’s and light in the ass Defensive Ends are useless come playoff football.  Hyde’s replacement needs to be a physical safety.  I’d like to see a 1 tech upgrade to a guy like Reader.  I like Douglas, Benford, Taron, and Poyer.  Bernard and Milano are playmakers but undersized.  Oliver is good but undersized too.  All the defensive additions the off-season need to be stout, violent dudes.  The defense needs to get bigger and more physical.  

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I think mcdermott showed the last 2 months he’s capable of evolving.  But let’s see what he does this off-season.  The Epenesa’s and light in the ass Defensive Ends are useless come playoff football.  Hyde’s replacement needs to be a physical safety.  I’d like to see a 1 tech upgrade to a guy like Reader.  I like Douglas, Benford, Taron, and Poyer.  Bernard and Milano are playmakers but undersized.  Oliver is good but undersized too.  All the defensive additions the off-season need to be stout, violent dudes.  The defense needs to get bigger and more physical.  

We’ve really gotta lean into the playoff officiating more…db holds and OL holds just aren’t really called and kc really pushes the envelope on trying to use it to their advantage.  Small DEs are just gonna get held…receivers that aren’t very physical are gonna get held 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Bills defense has good players, but no great ones. There's no Josh Allen there.  

It doesn't have a lot of quick players. 

It's older too.  The age looms large because after 18+ games, the 30 year old body just doesn't have much left in the tank.  When the season was shorter, vets had something left to give.  

 

If I were the Bills, I'd take my lumps this coming season and give rookies and 2nd year players starter minutes on defense and resist the temptation to give contracts to any FA who are 29+.  That includes players like Rasul Douglas and Leonard Floyd.  Older players will get you to the playoffs, but they aren't going to deliver those game changing moments come January.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dpberr said:

The Bills defense has good players, but no great ones. There's no Josh Allen there.  

It doesn't have a lot of quick players. 

It's older too.  The age looms large because after 18+ games, the 30 year old body just doesn't have much left in the tank.  When the season was shorter, vets had something left to give.  

 

If I were the Bills, I'd take my lumps this coming season and give rookies and 2nd year players starter minutes on defense and resist the temptation to give contracts to any FA who are 29+.  That includes players like Rasul Douglas and Leonard Floyd.  Older players will get you to the playoffs, but they aren't going to deliver those game changing moments come January.  

 

Terry is not going to want a mini-rebuild/re-tool year next year. Soon he will be asking fans to pay for those increased ticket prices and PSL fees. This is not a good time for the team to take a step back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Ravens defense stopped him 6 times yesterday. We have stopped him 4 times in 3 playoff games.

 

Go on. Pretend you meant something different.

He’s playing in his 4th Super Bowl in 5 years. 

This is “Brady is a system QB” all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

We need a more violent downhill defense.  Those are the defenses that perform in the playoffs.  Players are banged up and the film is out there after 18 or 19 games.  Undersized defenses that rely on confusing guys like Mahomes or even Burrow don’t hold up.  

 

Yeap. I kept thinking about this since we started the playoffs. Sure we have a good-great regular season defense, but come playoff time our injury list on defense is a laundry list of who's who names. It seems like the past couple season's this is how it always plays out. Our defense is just not big enough for the pounding of a 17-game regular season. We a rolling out 2nd-3rd stringers across the board on defense come playoff time. Then we get all pissy that our defense falls apart in the playoffs. It's cause we got Joe-blow who should be working security at the Galleria Mall playing MLB.

 

I know McDermott loves his fast-undersized guys that can fly to the ball, but damn if you're 20-30 lbs undersized what good is your speed if your in street clothes on the sideline by the end of the year? I'll give you a coincidence if it's just one season, bad luck, fine whatever. But this is like the 2nd or 3rd post-season now.  This does not bode well. 

 

People want to take the high ground and say that Baltimore is full of thugs and bullies and are glad they did not win, but I will trade everyone on our defense, for everyone on their defense, every day of the week. You swap defenses and we are talking about which hotels we are staying at to go watch the Bills play the 49ers in the Super Bowl. It's frustrating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

We need a more violent downhill defense.  Those are the defenses that perform in the playoffs.  Players are banged up and the film is out there after 18 or 19 games.  Undersized defenses that rely on confusing guys like Mahomes or even Burrow don’t hold up.  

McDermott's late season playoff defenses have either been exhausted or injury riddled.  Everything is about zone disguises.  There's little or no physicality in our players.  He has no answer for elite qbs or coaches. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Been told over and over on this forum that the offense has been at fault for playoff losses, including last week.  Guess those people probably won't respond in this thread.

 

There's a lot of McD propaganda here unfortunately. There's no way anyone can logically make an argument that he hasn't been our biggest liability and problem in the playoffs. 

Edited by HomeskillitMoorman
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He’s playing in his 4th Super Bowl in 5 years. 

 

His AFCCG opponents over the last two years scored 20 points and 10 points. Again, you know this. You're just playing your usual semantics game. Everybody with eyes can see that the Chiefs defense has performed better in the playoffs these past few years. Even in seasons when our regular season defense ranked higher than theirs, their playoff defense still performed better than ours. That's what the thread is about, yeah? Read the title. Read the original post. Then get back to me. Instead of repeating the same empty points that have already been debunked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Terry is not going to want a mini-rebuild/re-tool year next year. Soon he will be asking fans to pay for those increased ticket prices and PSL fees. This is not a good time for the team to take a step back. 

 

I don't think younger players on defense is necessarily a step back.  I think the remodel needs to occur in the 2024 season so you have those younger players on the inexpensive contracts peaking for the first couple years in the new stadium.    

 

The Bills teams of stadium Years 1 and 2 have to be awesome.  You don't want those years to be without legitimate Super Bowl potential.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Outside of injuries this year it is hard to understand just how badly the D falls off in the playoffs.  Some of the talking head shows postulate that the length of the season hits “aged” players harder. The Bills D is not a youth movement. Who knows maybe there is something to this thought.

It's age, injuries, and having to dig out of a hole to make the playoffs in the first place. 

Oh........... and it's coaching. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...