So we're firing McD, right?

[Governor]

52 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Very nice post. I agree with the vast majority of your statements. You are especially spot on when it comes to McD. Zero growth when it comes playoff time. No confidence he can lead the Bills to a SB. 

 

For me it wasn't SB or bust. Maybe it should have been. Probably should be when your in year 6 or 7 of Allen. Talk about missed opportunities. Understatement of the year. Personally, I would have been ok with them going to Baltimore and losing a tough game. Going to the AFC championship game vs what been the best team in the AFC would have been not the worst loss to swallow. Ultimately it's not the goal but I likely would have seen it as progress. Maybe I'm lying to myself. A SB appearance would have been fantastic and a clear successful season. 

 

I agree with giving Allen a chance to win the game. However, I'm in disagreement with going for it on 4th and 8. It's kind of pick your poison. I think the chances of converting the 4th down was very slim. Interesting if there's a math equation or analytics that could give a clear picture. Taking into account the probability of making a 4th and 8th while taking into consideration make the FG while computing the chances of Mahomes leading the Chiefs to a game winning FG or TD. Pretty fascinating information here. 

 

I digress, while watching it live I asked myself are the Bills in 4 down territory? Truthfully, I didn't know the answer until I saw the play calling. I think the Bills could have been more prudent and tried to make a more manageable 4th and 2 or 3. It's all arm chair QBing  here. I think your thoughts process absolutely applies here in a shorter more manageable 4th down. 

 

I was fine with trying to convert the FG. In my mind, I felt like the game was already lost make or missed. There's no way any Bills' fan was confident that the D could stop Mahomes and company. However, lots of things can happen. A fumble, tipped ball for an int, strip sack, etc...in essence, praying for a miracle similar to the one the Bills received minutes before. 

 

I don't know how this team moves forward with McD as the coach. His message has to be getting stale. The players belief in him has to be diminishing. Heck, the coach himself is probably lacking confidence. When is enough enough? 

 

Running it back with a poor playoff coach who has shown an uncanny ability to lose divisional games with the top 3 QB in the league hardly inspires hope and optimism. 

 

Fans should be knocking on the Pegula's door begging for a coaching change. 

This is what I’ve been yelling about for weeks. Game ending drives when he wants to kill clock BUT we still need to score.

 

1st play: run up the middle into a brick wall.

 

Ok, I guess we’re killing clock and playing for a tie?

 

2nd and 3rd plays: passes, one to the end zone.

 

Ok, so I guess we’re trying to score? Ok, then why did we waste a play running up the middle then?

 

I don’t think McD actually knows what he wants to do in those situations at all.

 

He’s done it continuously over the last month. I think he is totally lost in those moments. His first priority is to kill the clock, but then he can’t seem to decide how and when he wants to score and this game is hard enough by itself. You score any chance you get.

 

Scoring has to Trump clock killing. He’s so arrogant that he thinks Josh can score exactly when he wants him to.

Edited January 22 by Governor

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Lol no. When you dress 3 LB and they're the 5,6and a guy you pulled off a couch last week, and that's just 1 unit with issues it's not an excuse 

D played soft as *****. Rasul Douglas was in position to lay a hit on Mahommes that he’d be feeling all week and bit on fake pass and ended up giving up a huge run. Soft as *****

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

D played soft as *****. Rasul Douglas was in position to lay a hit on Mahommes that he’d be feeling all week and bit on fake pass and ended up giving up a huge run. Soft as *****

Glnice bit of fiction you've crafted there.

 

But please, carry on. Cry it out, you'll feel better as time passes.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Fire his ass.  I've seen enough.  
 

I was basically sober at the end of the game, and wasn't even a bit surprised... and hardly even pissed off- that's why I know he needs to go- I should never feel that way at the end of a loss like this one.  
 

Get him outta here. 

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Glnice bit of fiction you've crafted there.

 

But please, carry on. Cry it out, you'll feel better as time passes.

Nothing to cry about, same results every year by this D. Anyone who  expected more is foolish, anyone who wants to complain about injuries is even more foolish.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Anyone who  expected more is foolish, anyone who wants to complain about injuries is even more foolish.  

Well I mean if YOU say so, BananaB

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Lol no. When you dress 3 LB and they're the 5,6and a guy you pulled off a couch last week, and that's just 1 unit with issues it's not an excuse 

 

And Kansas City just attacked the middle of the defense all day. Kelce and outside zone to get the linebackers (including Mr Miami retirement home) running laterally. Other than that they had one play outside to MVS (he made a good play when well covered) and a deep shot on McDermott's 6 man pressure (which I do put on a damn stupid play call). 

 

Otherwise everything was aimed at exploiting the linebackers. For all the noise about Rice they barely used him. They din't want to throw outside. They just wanted to keep going at the backups. 

Edited January 22 by GunnerBill

[BritishBill]

I can genuinely see this both ways. It does feel like McDermott has hit his glass ceiling and seems unable to get us all the way. And yet there does seem to me to be a fair amount of mitigation this time around.

 

Cast your mind back to pre season, and ask yourself what would your prediction for season be if the following transpired:

 

1. Tre White would get a season ending injury in week 4

 

2. Matt Milano would get a season ending injury in London

 

3. Von Miller would return but not record a single sack all season, looking like a shadow of his old self, and struggling to even make the team.

 

4. Gabe Davis would have FOUR whole matches without a single catch, and a further 3 where he was held to 21 yards or fewer.

 

5. Ken Dorsey would get fired half way through the season.

 

6. We’d go into January with a huge defensive injury crisis, missing 5+ starters each game

 

7. Our kicker would malfunction in the last month of the season.

 

8. We’d go into the final 5 weeks needing to win out, including trips to Miami, Kansas and a home game with Dallas

 

When you bear all that in mind, I kind of feel like we got probably as far as we possibly could this season, if not further than we should. 
 

Does McDermott get credit for that? Perhaps he’s the root cause of some of the factors above. But it doesn’t to me feel like an abject failure of a season where we had it all in front of us to grasp and we blew it. It feels more like we were hugely up against it for multiple reasons, and did pretty well to overcome a lot of issues and force our way into the equation. 
 

To my mind that makes me hesitant to blow everything up and fire the HC. But I might be saying that this next season is his last chance before we hand the keys to Josh Allen for over to someone else

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

20 minutes ago, Bills69 said:

Somewhere Tyler Dunn is smiling…

Ofc he is, he's a shitlord 

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

And Kansas City just attacked the middle of the defense all day. Kelce and outside zone to get the linebackers (including Mr Miami retirement home) running laterally. Other than that they had one play outside to MVS (he made a good play when well covered) and a deep shot on McDermott's 6 man pressure (which I do put on a damn stupid play call). 

 

Otherwise everything was aimed at exploiting the linebackers. For all the noise about Rice they barely used him. They din't want to throw outside. They just wanted to keep going at the backups. 

Which is what you do.

 

I find it hard to be upset about this loss, since they probably shouldn't have been there anyway 

3 minutes ago, BritishBill said:

I can genuinely see this both ways. It does feel like McDermott has hit his glass ceiling and seems unable to get us all the way. And yet there does seem to me to be a fair amount of mitigation this time around.

 

Cast your mind back to pre season, and ask yourself what would your prediction for season be if the following transpired:

 

1. Tre White would get a season ending injury in week 4

 

2. Matt Milano would get a season ending injury in London

 

3. Von Miller would return but not record a single sack all season, looking like a shadow of his old self, and struggling to even make the team.

 

4. Gabe Davis would have FOUR whole matches without a single catch, and a further 3 where he was held to 21 yards or fewer.

 

5. Ken Dorsey would get fired half way through the season.

 

6. We’d go into January with a huge defensive injury crisis, missing 5+ starters each game

 

7. Our kicker would malfunction in the last month of the season.

 

8. We’d go into the final 5 weeks needing to win out, including trips to Miami, Kansas and a home game with Dallas

 

When you bear all that in mind, I kind of feel like we got probably as far as we possibly could this season, if not further than we should. 
 

Does McDermott get credit for that? Perhaps he’s the root cause of some of the factors above. But it doesn’t to me feel like an abject failure of a season where we had it all in front of us to grasp and we blew it. It feels more like we were hugely up against it for multiple reasons, and did pretty well to overcome a lot of issues and force our way into the equation. 
 

To my mind that makes me hesitant to blow everything up and fire the HC. But I might be saying that this next season is his last chance before we hand the keys to Josh Allen for over to someone else

Great post. 

[Governor]

17 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Nothing to cry about, same results every year by this D. Anyone who  expected more is foolish, anyone who wants to complain about injuries is even more foolish.  

Yeah, injuries excuses won’t fly. We spend all of the team’s resources on that side of the ball. The drop off from starter to backup should be very small.

 

A defensive guru should still have a serviceable defense with multiple injuries. That’s why you hire a defensive guru. Otherwise, he serves no purpose.

 

This was not a serviceable defense. The performance was worse than the worst defense in the league by quite a lot.

[Xwnyer]

7 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

So mad that Bass missed that kick for obvious reasons. But he robbed us of seeing if our d coordinator could stop them. I doubt it. What do you think 1:47 two timeouts, tie game. 

Maybe it’s like the loss at KC however this time they kick a FG to go up 30-27 and than Josh with less than 20 seconds hits Shakir on a crossing route and he takes it to the house 

I voted no BUT a real OC needs to be hired.  Sure we turned it around with Brady but he is too predictable.  Second half offense has sucked 

[TheWeatherMan]

Top 3 reasons why you fire McD based on last nights loss alone.

 

3.  Fake punt on 4th and 5 from your own 30 down 3 points.  Have we had a successful fake punt since Brian Moorman?  You have the best QB on the planet and want your special teams to do something they have never done…in the most important game.

 

2.  Doing nothing on special teams to correct glowing deficiencies of the kicker and the punters health.  Both Bass and Martin should not have been on that field last night.  
 

1.  You’re a defensive head coach who has faced Andy Reid and Mahomes on the biggest stage…multiple times.  I don’t care if your entire defense is injured, that display of ineptitude was puke worthy.  He is a defensive head coach of a super caliber team and for the last 5 playoff losses, defense has been the teams Achilles heal.  I’m tired of watching this defense be abused in the playoffs.  

 

Time to move on!

Edited January 22 by TheWeatherMan

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Yes McDermott made Bass 25% in the playoffs.   Think about that 25% has a kicker ever had a worse playoffs?

 

And still it's McDermott...God people.

Yes it’s does fall on McD too an extent first off they made the decision to eat clock on that drive score and leave as little clock left for Mahomes and company. Once the 2 min warning arrived I told my buddies on the chat this should be 4 down territory with 2nd and 9 at around the 20yd line we needed to run the ball preferably with Josh he was gashing them all day with 5/6yds a pop u run force KC to use there timeouts u can’t rely on a shaky kicker to tie the game u have to play to win at that point leaving as little time as possible for KC . A tie at that point puts us in big jeopardy of losing that game our defense was getting torched all day long we had no answers for KC so knowing your Defense and kicker are struggling u have to have a feel for situational football and McD doesn’t have it.. So yes this game falls on him once again . 

[Gugny]

Had we lost because of his coaching and/or lack of leadership, I’d say yes. 
 

But I don’t think he is the reason we lost. 
 

That said, if we could upgrade, I’d be all for it. 
 

I don’t see it happening and I also don’t know who is out there that would be an upgrade. 

[BillMafia716ix]

There was nothing Sean McDermott could have done defensively to stop the Chiefs. We were down to our 3rd, 4th and 5th string LB. Rasul Douglass wasn’t himself. They were just too banged up at too many key positions and Mahomes/Reid took advantage of it. 
 

That game had to be won upfront. The defensive line was our best unit all season and they were a total no show

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You forgot to mention the gift the Bills received with the football out of the end zone. The woulda coulda conversation doesn't work here. It cuts both ways. 

 

Bottom line is the Bills lost and they are 0-3 vs KC. I ask what's going to change to make you think the Bills can beat KC or a healthy Cinci? I ask you do you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearance?

 

Hard not to feel pessimistic right now. This is a low point for the Bills. 

No, hence the “ Josh’s best years are being wasted.”

I would LOVE to be waking up to McD and staff let go and we were onto a mini rebuild ( Which we are regardless)

But, the OP asked a question and I don’t think he will be fired🙁

[thenorthremembers]

7 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Yes it’s does fall on McD too an extent first off they made the decision to eat clock on that drive score and leave as little clock left for Mahomes and company. Once the 2 min warning arrived I told my buddies on the chat this should be 4 down territory with 2nd and 9 at around the 20yd line we needed to run the ball preferably with Josh he was gashing them all day with 5/6yds a pop u run force KC to use there timeouts u can’t rely on a shaky kicker to tie the game u have to play to win at that point leaving as little time as possible for KC . A tie at that point puts us in big jeopardy of losing that game our defense was getting torched all day long we had no answers for KC so knowing your Defense and kicker are struggling u have to have a feel for situational football and McD doesn’t have it.. So yes this game falls on him once again . 

Use the enter button to separate your long posts.

[<bills4life>]

4 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

There was nothing Sean McDermott could have done defensively to stop the Chiefs. We were down to our 3rd, 4th and 5th string LB. Rasul Douglass wasn’t himself. They were just too banged up at too many key positions and Mahomes/Reid took advantage of it. 
 

That game had to be won upfront. The defensive line was our best unit all season and they were a total no show

Then maybe start Elam?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

3 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

There was nothing Sean McDermott could have done defensively to stop the Chiefs. We were down to our 3rd, 4th and 5th string LB. Rasul Douglass wasn’t himself. They were just too banged up at too many key positions and Mahomes/Reid took advantage of it. 
 

That game had to be won upfront. The defensive line was our best unit all season and they were a total no show

Why not use Dorian Williams more than Klien that’s for 1 . Klien is not an NFL caliber LB at this point of his career that decision itself might’ve cost us the game. Why not also use more big Dime defense and have Seron Neal as the extra safety I remember him playing a big role vs KC a few yrs bk on Monday night football vs KC and that game we played KELCE better then we ever had pretty much so yes McD could’ve done more and adjusted better. 

[JerseyBills]

8 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

That part isn't on McD.

 

But what about the defence?

 

Only reason there wasn't 40 plus points against his defence was because the bills offence controlled the clock.

 

 

The D did a great job in the 4th quarter for it's worth. At least setting the O up to take the lead, before the Bass miss, we held them to 2 3&outs, because of that bs pi penalty. 6 straight plays and held em under 10 yards

[BillMafia716ix]

2 minutes ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

Then maybe start Elam?

I think it’s becoming clear that the coaching staff is out on Elam. They have no confidence in him

[PatsFanNH]

8 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

That part isn't on McD.

 

But what about the defence?

 

Only reason there wasn't 40 plus points against his defence was because the bills offence controlled the clock.

 

 

Your defense was in shambles from injuries. Your secondary was like the walking wounded. The only coaching mistake on D was not putting Elam in for an obviously hurt CB. 

[Neo]

8 hours ago, Westside said:

Hahaha……..he’s making the pegulas and the nfl too much money to fire. He’s doing exactly what the nfl wants him to do.

What money is he making for the Pagulas and the NFL, and what does the NFL want him to do, that is different from a hypothetical replacement?

Edited January 22 by Neo

[Donuts and Doritos]

McD coached out of his mind to get that D & team to the #2 seed. At some point the injuries were going to catch up to them that day was Sunday. & They still had a chance to win. He didn't miss kicks, drop passes, miss blocks or throws or tackles. This loss was about the Jimmy's & Joes more than the Xs & Os. He's staying no matter what any of us think or want.

[BillMafia716ix]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Why not use Dorian Williams more than Klien that’s for 1 . Klien is not an NFL caliber LB at this point of his career that decision itself might’ve cost us the game. Why not also use more big Dime defense and have Seron Neal as the extra safety I remember him playing a big role vs KC a few yrs bk on Monday night football vs KC and that game we played KELCE better then we ever had pretty much so yes McD could’ve done more and adjusted better. 

A Rookie LB vs. Mahomes?? He would got eaten alive. Dorian Williams is still a year or two away 

[TheWeatherMan]

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Had we lost because of his coaching and/or lack of leadership, I’d say yes. 
 

But I don’t think he is the reason we lost. 
 

That said, if we could upgrade, I’d be all for it. 
 

I don’t see it happening and I also don’t know who is out there that would be an upgrade. 

Gugny, why don’t you think he’s the reason we lost?  He’s a HC the specializes in defense who also doubles down as the DC.  The D looked the worst I’ve seen them in my 35+ years watching them.  Zero creativity, zero answers, zero half time adjustments.  Injuries played a role, no doubt, but it was no excuse for that level of incompetency. 

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

A Rookie LB vs. Mahomes?? He would got eaten alive. Dorian Williams is still a year or two away 

Dorian Williams made the only stop that forced a punt all night. Oddly he did it twice on the same drive but a bull#### flag gave them an extra first down. When Dorian bumped Rice the ball was still in Mahomes hands. 

 

 

Edited January 22 by BananaB

[TheWeatherMan]

26 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

There was nothing Sean McDermott could have done defensively to stop the Chiefs. We were down to our 3rd, 4th and 5th string LB. Rasul Douglass wasn’t himself. They were just too banged up at too many key positions and Mahomes/Reid took advantage of it. 
 

That game had to be won upfront. The defensive line was our best unit all season and they were a total no show

If that’s the case, we need a new HC who can.  He couldn’t do anything to stop the Chiefs in the other two playoff matchups either.  

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Governor said:

This is what I’ve been yelling about for weeks. Game ending drives when he wants to kill clock BUT we still need to score.

 

1st play: run up the middle into a brick wall.

 

Ok, I guess we’re killing clock and playing for a tie?

 

2nd and 3rd plays: passes, one to the end zone.

 

Ok, so I guess we’re trying to score? Ok, then why did we waste a play running up the middle then?

 

I don’t think McD actually knows what he wants to do in those situations at all.

 

He’s done it continuously over the last month. I think he is totally lost in those moments. His first priority is to kill the clock, but then he can’t seem to decide how and when he wants to score and this game is hard enough by itself. You score any chance you get.

 

Scoring has to Trump clock killing. He’s so arrogant that he thinks Josh can score exactly when he wants him to.

I don't know if I'd go that far. Coach McD deserves plenty of blame. However, he's not the play caller here. Brady made those calls and our criticism is all after the fact. 

 

For me, the worst call was the first down call. It was far too conservative and unlikely to succeed. The Chiefs were committed to stop the first down run. I would have liked the ball in Allen's hands. Perhaps an RPO or Allen rolling out with the option to run or pass. The play to wide open Shakir was a bit unlucky and a great play by the Chiefs defender. It was a sure TD opportunity lost. On that play, you could see live Diggs streaking across the middle open by a decent margin. Romo pointed it out. That was probably the better option there. It was a safer faster pass. I think Diggs would have gotten the first down or come very close. We will never know.

 

What's known is the Bills can't seem to get out of their own way come divisional round play football. They have fallen short year after year with Allen playing brilliantly. They should be winning these games far more than losing them. We often talk about how McD has built a winning culture in Buffalo. From a regular season stand point and a WC playoff game this absolutely rings true. Beyond that, McD has built a reputation of losing, under performing, being out coached, and falling short. He's built a culture of losing in the playoffs. Yesterday, has brought that front and center. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Do I think the Bills should move on from McDermott? Yes I do.

 

Do I have (what I consider to be) valid reasoning behind it? Absolutely.

 

Barring Sean walking away will there be a HC change? Absolutely not.

 

We can all spin our tires in the mud but it doesn't change anything. Right now Pegula seems content with having the (at best) second best team in the AFC. And that's providing you don't believe that Baltimore or Cincinnati with a healthy Burrow hasn't passed us by. We went from a 17 year playoff drought to now a 5 year stretch where we are good in the season and mediocre come playoff time when it counts.

[newcam2012]

32 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

No, hence the “ Josh’s best years are being wasted.”

I would LOVE to be waking up to McD and staff let go and we were onto a mini rebuild ( Which we are regardless)

But, the OP asked a question and I don’t think he will be fired🙁

It's obvious he's not getting fired. That's not even really a debate. 

[billsfan714]

8 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

McDermott’s playoff record against teams seeded 5-7 is 5-0. His playoff record against teams seeded 1-4 is 0-6. I don’t even think he coached a bad game today. I liked that he was aggressive - except for the fake punt which was forgivable if it was because KC only had 10 on the field.

 

At some point you just have to make a change though. I don’t think the Bills will fire McDermott this off-season, but they probably should. I think he gets at least one more year. 

That is a mike drop level stat.

[MWK]

5 years of the same thing happening and yet the excuse brigade is still out for McDermott.

[nucci]

No, we need a new OC and WRs to get our passing game back....also need real NFL LBs

[Watkins101]

9 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Yes McDermott made Bass 25% in the playoffs.   Think about that 25% has a kicker ever had a worse playoffs?

 

And still it's McDermott...God people.

Even if Bass makes the kick, the way our defense was playing, we still likely lose.

[Gugny]

35 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Gugny, why don’t you think he’s the reason we lost?  He’s a HC the specializes in defense who also doubles down as the DC.  The D looked the worst I’ve seen them in my 35+ years watching them.  Zero creativity, zero answers, zero half time adjustments.  Injuries played a role, no doubt, but it was no excuse for that level of incompetency. 

I have been in the “fire McDermott” camp since last year’s playoff loss. 
 

Bit the turnaround this team made after falling to 6-6 was nothing short of remarkable. 
 

I am also normally the LAST person to make excuses … especially injuries. 
 

Every team is dealing with injuries in January. 
 

But this team had NO ONE defending the middle of the field against the most prolific QB/pass catcher duo in NFL history. I thought holding them to 27 was admirable. 
 

Like I said, I we could upgrade, I’d be all for it.  
 

I’m still not a McDermott fan. 
 

I simply don’t put this loss on him, that’s all. 
 

[Heavy Kevi]

3 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Why zero reasons given for your contention, beyond the loss of the game?

 

Why, after this game, is this so cemented in your head?

 

Is it because of anything specific to this game, his coaching in it, or more based on previous ideas and your hatred for him in general?

 

 

 

You say, "I have saw enough of the McDermott experience" but don't tell us what it was about this game that added to your ideas--what are they? What 'have you saw' in this game?

 

 

I have no hatred for him.

 

There was nothing standalone in this game that "cemented" this as the right answer...

 

I've simply known since the end of last year it's time for him to go

 

I was a year behind then, now 2 years behind.

 

I also knew middle of this year it reeaaalllly time. I said multiple times the only way to save it was to "pull a Coughlin" and win it all. But he did not.

 

He is wasting Josh' talents. Josh is the best chance we'll probably EVER have at a SB and we can't keep smashing our heads against the wall with McD

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Question for Terry Pegula to think about: Why are the Bills 3-1 against the Chiefs in the regular season but 0-3 in the postseason? Sitting available right here right now is Jim Harbaugh. You can do it if you want to.

[Kirby Jackson]

I’ve been consistent in my thoughts on McDermott. It was Super Bowl or someone else needs to be leading this team. 

[Heavy Kevi]

7 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Question for Terry Pegula to think about: Why are the Bills 3-1 against the Chiefs in the regular season but 0-3 in the postseason? Sitting available right here right now is Jim Harbaugh. You can do it if you want to.

 

And Harbaugh would take this job in an instant

 

The coaches available this offseason (Belichick, Harbaugh, Ben Johnson, Slowik) are too good to keep McD around, and we have what would be the most attractive HC opening in years.