JerseyBills Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 12 hours ago, HappyDays said: I really hope this is the case. Then at least there is hope for Diggs to return to form next year. My fear is that he has either lost some of his edge or his physical abilities have declined suddenly, or both. Same. It has to be some injury, he was as elite as ever for the first few games, you don't nose dive that fast. Still over 100 rec , will finish over 1100 , possibly 1200 yards. Look at his snap counts, I believe he's on somewhat of a pitch count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessImproverMan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Dopey said: It’s not just Diggs. It starts with the QB and a lot of Bills fans are afraid to say Josh is off too. Surprise, surprise. Josh has been off lately. I think it started when he turned the ball over FOUR TIMES when he lost the Jets game. But hey, let’s keep excusing him for his play. One valid criticism of Allen is he doesn't seem to be a film junkie like the elites (Brady, Manning, etc) were. You could tell Brady and Manning both lived and breathed football. Brady basically divorced two women over football when they threatened to get in the way of it, which I do respect quite a bit (if fans are making your hundreds of millions of dollars in income possible, don't let anything come between you and the game I say). Allen spent the off-season golfing and hooking up. It has to be one reason why Belichick's defense had Allen flustered quite a bit (along with the issues of lack of receiver separation and lack of consistent pass protection). Brady and Manning were so great at getting the ball out in 2 seconds to an open guy to minimize a pass rush, often throwing to guys who were not true number one receivers. Allen seems to lack that ability to dink and dunk down the field in 2 seconds chunk throws like they did. Allen has more highlight splash plays and does a lot more with his feet to make him a very good QB but could do better studying film more and telling his woman to screw off if she gets in the way of that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 13 hours ago, BananaB said: At this point last year we had Diggs, Davis, McKenzie and Shakir. Beane had to go get Brown and Beasley because of the struggles. Now we have Diggs, Davis and Shakir. Harty and Sherfield combined are less valuable than McKenzie alone at this point. Beane cheaped out like he always does on offense. and Kincaid.. Cheaped out? Invested a 1st and 2 2nd rders on O the last 2 years. Solidified the OL. Paid Harty who many thought would take on that John Brown role.. Drafted Shakir as well , who is looking better every game Edited January 1 by JerseyBills 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlbills13 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Things we need More Shakir More Cook in the pass game Fournette More Kincaid Obviously you can't have all that on every down but you can do some of it 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 4 hours ago, balln said: Yea I see diggs did similar thing in chargers. He looks like a pouty B word out there. I think he’s a sociopath. I wouldn’t put it past him that he is subtly sabotaging / trying to make coaches and Josh look bad Some people here look like pouty b word. Sociopath?!?😂😂 Edited January 1 by Dopey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 hours ago, balln said: 30 year old wall. Was bound to happen So he was like WR2 or 3 in the league the 1st 6vweeks and just suddenly takes this massive nose dive? I don't buy it, as a betting man, I'd bet the house he is dealing with something, which in turn , drastically effects our pass game 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 13 hours ago, Drew21PA said: Well to be fair answer is easy on two of them 1 rbis patriots defense is actually REALLY GOOD 2 Dallas game we didn’t need to throw we ran all over them. josh was off out west but we never travel out west and win so I’ll take it Agree. There’s nothing wrong. We just ran into a gauntlet. Great offense is back for Miami. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 hours ago, balln said: Yea I see diggs did similar thing in chargers. He looks like a pouty B word out there. I think he’s a sociopath. I wouldn’t put it past him that he is subtly sabotaging / trying to make coaches and Josh look bad talk about going off the deep end on conspiracy theories. I have an open mind and love to research conspiracies but this is way to far out there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, JerseyBills said: talk about going off the deep end on conspiracy theories. I have an open mind and love to research conspiracies but this is way to far out there Weird projection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, ProcessImproverMan said: One valid criticism of Allen is he doesn't seem to be a film junkie like the elites (Brady, Manning, etc) were. You could tell Brady and Manning both lived and breathed football. Brady basically divorced two women over football when they threatened to get in the way of it, which I do respect quite a bit (if fans are making your hundreds of millions of dollars in income possible, don't let anything come between you and the game I say). Allen spent the off-season golfing and hooking up. It has to be one reason why Belichick's defense had Allen flustered quite a bit (along with the issues of lack of receiver separation and lack of consistent pass protection). Brady and Manning were so great at getting the ball out in 2 seconds to an open guy to minimize a pass rush, often throwing to guys who were not true number one receivers. Allen seems to lack that ability to dink and dunk down the field in 2 seconds chunk throws like they did. Allen has more highlight splash plays and does a lot more with his feet to make him a very good QB but could do better studying film more and telling his woman to screw off if she gets in the way of that. That first paragraph is where I stood after last season and during the offseason. I think he’s seen this and is a more mature Josh. He’s still behind and catching up on the film study part. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The most frustrating thing is the red zone passing game. I get jealous watching KC because they always scheme something up where if Mahomes gets more than 2.5 seconds someone is open by 2-3 yards in the end zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFBillsfan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Additional points I’lll add is there is ZERO creativity. Where are the misdirection plays, QB rollouts, naked bootlegs, TE shuttle passes to Knox? It’s been far too much shotgun out of the pocket with poor route design. Josh gets pressured, then the offense turns into backyard football with Josh making an unscripted play far too often. Rolling out Josh puts so much pressure on the D. Do the LB’s come up to stop Josh from running or stay back in coverage. It’s a no win situation for them and I’m stunned why we don’t leverage it more. It seemed like in the first qtr, Brady didn’t have an answer in the passing game so let’s just run Josh. For whatever reason, the OC and QB refuse to just take the easy stuff. It doesn’t need to be this difficult. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 It seems like Kincaid almost disappeared when Knox returned. Kincaid is just a better option in the passing game and cutting his targets is a problem. Diggs and Davis have disappeared except for a few flashes. Looking around the league its depressing how many dynamic receivers there are making amazing catches and finding the open spaces in the D while the Bills currently lack that element. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 16 minutes ago, stlbills13 said: Things we need More Shakir More Cook in the pass game Fournette More Kincaid Obviously you can't have all that on every down but you can do some of it Kincaid at 55% snap count is too low, agree. Murray playing 19 snaps (over Ty Johnson at 13) is too much. Even James Cook at 55%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said: Additional points I’lll add is there is ZERO creativity. Where are the misdirection plays, QB rollouts, naked bootlegs, TE shuttle passes to Knox? It’s been far too much shotgun out of the pocket with poor route design. Josh gets pressured, then the offense turns into backyard football with Josh making an unscripted play far too often. Rolling out Josh puts so much pressure on the D. Do the LB’s come up to stop Josh from running or stay back in coverage. It’s a no win situation for them and I’m stunned why we don’t leverage it more. It seemed like in the first qtr, Brady didn’t have an answer in the passing game so let’s just run Josh. For whatever reason, the OC and QB refuse to just take the easy stuff. It doesn’t need to be this difficult. That’s Josh, not the OC. Actually, not Dorsey either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 13 hours ago, HappyDays said: We've never had play designs to get Diggs open. He has done that himself with elite route running. This year he simply doesn't have it. Every passing offense needs someone you can rely on when other things aren't working. We don't have anybody to rely on consistently right now. I would argue that Shakir could be the guy. Has sticky hands, often catches the less than perfect passes and looks clutch on third and medium to long. He may not be a WR1, but he's the best according to my eye test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, SydneyBillsFan said: I would argue that Shakir could be the guy. Has sticky hands, often catches the less than perfect passes and looks clutch on third and medium to long. He may not be a WR1, but he's the best according to my eye test. He’s young and ascending. All other Bills WRs have plateaued (Diggs, Davis) or are in decline (Sherfield, Harty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, Dopey said: That’s Josh, not the OC. Actually, not Dorsey either. Though the Bills need an OC who can sit down with Josh and mentally beat that into him. They haven't had one to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 39 minutes ago, stlbills13 said: Things we need More Shakir More Cook in the pass game Fournette More Kincaid Obviously you can't have all that on every down but you can do some of it I agree with this, frustrating to hear we need to get it to Diggs. If he's open yes, if not don't force it to him. It's a team game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveorhatembillsfan4life Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I don’t disagree with taking more of the easy stuff but both Cook and Murray dropped easy balls.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 20 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said: I would argue that Shakir could be the guy. Has sticky hands, often catches the less than perfect passes and looks clutch on third and medium to long. He may not be a WR1, but he's the best according to my eye test. Him and Kincaid are probably our best answers right now, which is disappointing to say the least. But I will say Shakir's size, especially his arm length, also creates low margin for error. I think constantly funneling the ball to him over the middle would create more possible negative plays than fans would like to believe. Still he has been the most consistent receiver we've had by far on a per target basis in recent weeks. Ideally Shakir would just be a role player but we may be forced to prioritize his target share a little more. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Josh needs a lot less golf and a lot more work on his mechanics and chemistry with his receivers this coming offseason. He talked about getting back to his offseason mechanics training in the postgame today........but he's clearly not putting in the work he was prior to the 2021 season. After 13 seconds I think he thought he had neared the pinnacle of his profession but he's regressed back closer to Cam Newton 2.0 than the passer he was then. Time for him to get serious about winning before his own talent regresses back to the pack. I think it's a combination of all the issues raised. Where Josh is concerned, my thoughts shortly after the Patriots loss were that he put on some weight (I doubt he is 237 pounds these days) and spent too much time in the off-season playing golf and doing podcasts, and that it was the first summer he didn't attend Jordan Palmer's QB academy. I have seen nothing recently to change that viewpoint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 33 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: Though the Bills need an OC who can sit down with Josh and mentally beat that into him. They haven't had one to date. If anyone can, great, bring him in. If that person can be found, this is still a Josh issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 That Murray dropped killed the drive that was the early dagger. shakir dropped an easy first down couple other drops change this narrative pretty quick 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Him and Kincaid are probably our best answers right now, which is disappointing to say the least. But I will say Shakir's size, especially his arm length, also creates low margin for error. I think constantly funneling the ball to him over the middle would create more possible negative plays than fans would like to believe. Still he has been the most consistent receiver we've had by far on a per target basis in recent weeks. Ideally Shakir would just be a role player but we may be forced to prioritize his target share a little more. I appreciate the catch radius concerns but unfortunately we have guys like Davis, Murray and, lately, even Diggs who are dropping regulation passes hitting them right on the chest or belly button. Shakir is not one of those. Feed the guy who moves the chains! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I guess I may be missing what you are all feeling because had three more receptions that were dropped haopen had Kincaid scored on that long pass “bills offense is on fire” but instead we can’t appreciate the patriots defense has been fire 🔥 the last month for whatever reason Just now, SydneyBillsFan said: I appreciate the catch radius concerns but unfortunately we have guys like Davis, Murray and, lately, even Diggs who are dropping regulation passes hitting them right on the chest or belly button. Shakir is not one of those. Feed the guy who moves the chains! Another drop I forgot was Diggs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 By the way, on the second last offensive drive when Allen ran and dove with the ball carelessly out (Bills fortunate to recover). Allen got absolutely rocked on his head by a defender as he was going backwards. So much so, that he lie on the turf while the scramble for the fumble was going on and was holding his head and grimacing. I thought he was concussed for sure. Then he comes back to finish the final series only to bang up his shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, zow2 said: By the way, on the second last offensive drive when Allen ran and dove with the ball carelessly out (Bills fortunate to recover). Allen got absolutely rocked on his head by a defender as he was going backwards. So much so, that he lie on the turf while the scramble for the fumble was going on and was holding his head and grimacing. I thought he was concussed for sure. Then he comes back to finish the final series only to bang up his shoulder. That was a really reckless play. He had no prayer of completing that pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 14 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: Diggs looks hurt. His cuts are rounded off, and has little separation. The short passes on the bubble screens are Brady trying to get him an easy one. But that's not really what Diggs does. The rush today, and the quick throw to the left was another example of trying to get him going. The long pass to him over the top today looked like he was running fast, but not sprinting. I think he's got a lingering injury where he can go, but can't cut like he could in the early part of the year. ^^ This actually makes some sense. on a similar note…. does anyone have any thoughts on why Diggs comes off the field A LOT, typically after plays he’s involved in? wondering if it could be injury related… It’s like he’s taking ‘veteran rest plays’ off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The offense runs through Josh and Brady, so I guess we blame Davis or are we onto Diggs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Diggs and Josh are two guys that never like to show pain or any type of tweak, to the TV cameras. They are both banged up for sure. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 53 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: Though the Bills need an OC who can sit down with Josh and mentally beat that into him. They haven't had one to date. My thoughts, too. We need a qualified OC who can put together a playbook in the offseason. The rancid Dorsey playbook that Brady is working with doesn't cut it when teams see tendencies. We saw it with Dorsey, and we are now seeing it with Brady. Hopefully Josh can play superman for the next month and will us to a Lombardi trophy, despite the stiffled offense this year and half of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 19 minutes ago, Drew21PA said: I guess I may be missing what you are all feeling because had three more receptions that were dropped haopen had Kincaid scored on that long pass “bills offense is on fire” but instead we can’t appreciate the patriots defense has been fire 🔥 the last month for whatever reason Another drop I forgot was Diggs It's not just yesterday's game that the offense has looked off. Outside of a couple of weeks at the beginning of the season and the first 2 weeks of Brady as OC they haven't been that great for most of the season. In 10 of 16 games they struggled to get to 24 points. Even in the Dallas game the passing offense was pretty much MIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 24 minutes ago, Dopey said: If anyone can, great, bring him in. If that person can be found, this is still a Josh issue. It is a Josh issue, but where players have issues it is down to coaches to help sort them out, unless they are simply not fixable. If so, no one - including Josh - will be able to do much about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I know we all hate TB12, but JA17 would definitely benefit from taking a few pointers from Brady’s off season training regimen IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The Eagles and Bills offenses are looking eerily similar. AJ Brown started off the season on fire, but has been missing in action. Same for Diggs. What are the issues? 1 hour ago, stlbills13 said: Things we need More Shakir More Cook in the pass game Fournette More Kincaid Obviously you can't have all that on every down but you can do some of it I think a little bit more touches for Ty Johnson. I've rarely seen him fumble the ball or drop passes. Fournette over Murray at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike22nc Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) The Bills were at their best offensively when Daboll was calling the plays and trying to get a first down on every single play. Brady is even MORE influenced by what McDermott wants on offense than Dorsey was. They just continue to play scared offensively and try to avoid negative plays. It’s a win for this coaching staff to get 3rd and 4. Allen thrives when throwing in neutral situations. We are running too often on 1st and 2nd down and then saying “Josh go make a play” every 3rd down. It’s bad offensive philosophy when you have Josh Allen. It isn’t going to change as long as McDermott is the head coach. After saying all that, while I don’t think it optimizes the Bills chances, they CAN win this way with the way the defense is playing. Edited January 1 by mike22nc 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 15 hours ago, Aimee75 said: Yeah, I get that Diggs is double covered, but he has been shockingly dropping some catches or not coming up with the ones in years past that he was always good for. I don’t know why people eye-rolled you. You’re 100% correct. Diggs, in the limited opportunities he is receiving, does not look like the Diggs we know. Whether that’s age, injury, double-coverage…. I don’t know. But he is currently a shell of what he was just earlier this season. I can only think of two plays yesterday where he got any separation. The deep pass where he couldn’t locate the ball, and another play where Allen didn’t throw to him but we saw it in the stadium. Separation really is lacking in this offense. Very very very little separation. And then on the plays where we do finally get separation, Allen has multiple defenders in his face and can’t get through his progressions. For example, look at Kincaid here (but also notice the two defenders about to crush Allen): And on this play, Dawkins got beat so bad (see half of his body in the upper right screen) that Allen was flushed from the pocket. But look at Knox wide open: I guess my TL;DR is this… We only seem to get separation when the play has developed for so long that the line breaks down. We can’t wait 4+seconds for guys to get open. And I do think Josh has to be a little more patient. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, without a drought said: The offense runs through Josh and Brady, so I guess we blame Davis or are we onto Diggs. The KC offense runs through Mahomes & Reid so are we supposed to blame then for the Chiefs offensive troubles when its obvious where the problems are? Same for the Bills IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 New England was also holding a lot, and the refs were not calling it. Three examples (two in one play). None were within 5 yards of the LOS: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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