What's Wrong With The Passing O?

[Calidiehard]

I still don't understand why Isabella doesn't get any playing time. He has speed out of the slot, and we are lacking speed on offense.

[BuffaloRebound]

Hoping it’s because we’ve gone conservative in the passing game since we didn’t need to throw against dallas and the last 2 games we played it safe against inferior teams.  

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Passing O. has looked off ever since the Philly game (has actually looked off a lot of the season). Philly game is the last game w/ more than 1 passing TD.

 

What's the problem? (Is it Josh, Brady, the Playmakers or something else)? Here's the player game stats (in order of top catchers on the team this season):

 

Josh Allen:

                    Yds.      TD.    Int

NE.    15/30  169         0       1

LA.    15/21.  237.        1.       1

DAL.   7/15.     94.       1.       0

KC.   23/42.  233.       1.       1

PHIL 29/51.   339.       2.      1

 

1. Diggs:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    4/7.       26.         0

LA.    5/8.       29.         0

DAL. 4/5.        48.         0

KC.   4/11.       24.         0

PHIL 6/11.       74.         1

 

2. Davis:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    2/3.       21.         0

LA.    4/6.      130.        1

DAL.  0/1.          0.        0

KC.    0/2.         0.        0

PHIL  6/12.     105.       1

 

3. Kincaid:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    4/7.       87.         0

LA.    1/2.         7.          0

DAL.  0/2.         0.         0

KC.    5/8.       21.         0

PHIL  5/6.       38.         0

 

4. Shakir:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    4/4.       39.         0

LA.    3/3.       45.         0

DAL.  0/1.          0.         0

KC.     1/1.        12.         0

PHIL  3/5.       47.          0

 

5. Cook:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    1/3.       -4.         0

LA.    0/0.         0.         0

DAL. 2/3.        42.         1

KC.    5/5.       83.         1

PHIL  6/7.        57.         0

 

6. Knox:

                      Yds.       TD

NE.    No stats registered

LA.    2/2.       26.         0

DAL.  No stats registered 

KC.    3/3.       36.         0

PHIL  Didn't play

 

Harty:  1 catch 25 yds KC game

Murray: 1 catch 21 yds KC game

             3 catch 18 yds Phil game

Sherfield: 1 catch 9 yds KC game

 

(Source: https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills)

Nobody wants to hear this but a big reason is JOSH ALLEN.   You head that right….JOSH ALLEN.  This is the hard truth no one wants to admit.  You can blame the HC, the OC, the OL, the WR but he is the franchise QB and you need him to flat out play better when everything isn’t perfect.    Fans here will blame anyone except the person who deserves the most blame.  
 

He just is not reading defenses and missing open receivers.  He’s also been off target of deep throws and this was on full display today.   I’m not sure if he’s injured or what, but he has not played well
 

This is not to mention the turnovers.  That INT today was a first down throw.  It wasn’t an “arm punt” on 3rd down.  
 

The second issue is the receivers.  It’s been the same issue as last season.  When defense clamp down on Diggs (or if he can’t get open) no one else gets separation.  Davis struggles with this.  Shakir can be schemed open but a Josh doesn’t always see him.  Kincaid is good but maybe not ready to step up as a rookie.  
 

With this crew you also have the issues with drops which has been a killer.  This extends to the RB’s like Cook and Murray as well.  
 

Finally it’s the scheme.  I’m not ready to put this all on Brady.  He’s running a lot what Dorsey spent 1.5 years designing and building.  He can’t throw it all out mid year and start from scratch.    
 

The scheme in Buffalo with the talent on the roster probably isn’t the best way to maximize Josh’s talent.    I’m not sure if Brady is the right guy but the Bills will need an OC to design a system around Josh and have a commitment to improve the offense skill players.  

40 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

In your mind.

He’s right Dorsey was a big problem.  Brady is running Dorsey’s offense using his personnel and likely many of his calls and concepts.

 

But perhaps both were held back by the lack of talent at WR outside of Diggs and perhaps from Josh himself who can be hit or miss

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Drew21PA said:

That one was huge

 

a couple other first down receptions Josh our right on the hands in the right soot

 

but that Murray one was annoying 

To be honest, there’s been a lot drops that have just killed drives.  I think this speaks to the talent more than anything.  This is one part of the issue 

[Bill Grundy]

I think it's difficult to be all things, especially with such an enforced transition mid-season. We've had to make a running game work, and quickly, and on the hoof. And it's worked. And now the passing game is suffering a bit. But we can work all this through, one game at a time, we've shown it already. We can't give up on this Bills team, mainly because they keep identifying their weaknesses (for the most part) and overcoming them as they go.

 

After we win the superbowl, we'll probably be ready for the playoffs. 

Edited January 1 by Bill Grundy

[damj]

Ralph is cheap

[Livinginthepast]

How much of today's offensive dysfunction was the work of the dark lord Belichick? Was it one last spell cast by Belichick to once again mess with a Bills QB? I mean he's been doing it for 33 years since the Giants SB. Even with a beat up cast of scrubs, Belichick gets the best out of his players when it comes to the Bills. I can only hope that was the last time that we ever see him as a coach!

Edited January 1 by Livinginthepast

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

How much of today's offensive dysfunction was the work of the dark lord Belichick? Was it one last spell cast by Belichick to once again mess with a Bills QB? I mean he's been doing it for 33 years since the Giants SB. Even with a beat up cast of scrubs, Belichick gets the best out of his players when it comes to the Bills. I can only hope that was the last time that we ever see him as a coach1

Very little. Last week, something called a “Gif Smith” also had our offense looking shaky.

Edited January 1 by FireChans

[Green Lightning]

54 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Nobody wants to hear this but a big reason is JOSH ALLEN.   You head that right….JOSH ALLEN.  This is the hard truth no one wants to admit.  You can blame the HC, the OC, the OL, the WR but he is the franchise QB and you need him to flat out play better when everything isn’t perfect.    Fans here will blame anyone except the person who deserves the most blame.  
 

He just is not reading defenses and missing open receivers.  He’s also been off target of deep throws and this was on full display today.   I’m not sure if he’s injured or what, but he has not played well
 

This is not to mention the turnovers.  That INT today was a first down throw.  It wasn’t an “arm punt” on 3rd down.  
 

The second issue is the receivers.  It’s been the same issue as last season.  When defense clamp down on Diggs (or if he can’t get open) no one else gets separation.  Davis struggles with this.  Shakir can be schemed open but a Josh doesn’t always see him.  Kincaid is good but maybe not ready to step up as a rookie.  
 

With this crew you also have the issues with drops which has been a killer.  This extends to the RB’s like Cook and Murray as well.  
 

Finally it’s the scheme.  I’m not ready to put this all on Brady.  He’s running a lot what Dorsey spent 1.5 years designing and building.  He can’t throw it all out mid year and start from scratch.    
 

The scheme in Buffalo with the talent on the roster probably isn’t the best way to maximize Josh’s talent.    I’m not sure if Brady is the right guy but the Bills will need an OC to design a system around Josh and have a commitment to improve the offense skill players.  

He’s right Dorsey was a big problem.  Brady is running Dorsey’s offense using his personnel and likely many of his calls and concepts.

 

But perhaps both were held back by the lack of talent at WR outside of Diggs and perhaps from Josh himself who can be hit or miss

Gotta agree 

[klos63]

Allen throws too many interceptions and misses receivers.

Receivers aren't open.

Poor decisions by Allen.

Need a better OC.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Nobody wants to hear this but a big reason is JOSH ALLEN.   You head that right….JOSH ALLEN.  This is the hard truth no one wants to admit.  You can blame the HC, the OC, the OL, the WR but he is the franchise QB and you need him to flat out play better when everything isn’t perfect.    Fans here will blame anyone except the person who deserves the most blame.  
 

He just is not reading defenses and missing open receivers.  He’s also been off target of deep throws and this was on full display today.   I’m not sure if he’s injured or what, but he has not played well
 

This is not to mention the turnovers.  That INT today was a first down throw.  It wasn’t an “arm punt” on 3rd down.  
 

The second issue is the receivers.  It’s been the same issue as last season.  When defense clamp down on Diggs (or if he can’t get open) no one else gets separation.  Davis struggles with this.  Shakir can be schemed open but a Josh doesn’t always see him.  Kincaid is good but maybe not ready to step up as a rookie.  
 

With this crew you also have the issues with drops which has been a killer.  This extends to the RB’s like Cook and Murray as well.  
 

Finally it’s the scheme.  I’m not ready to put this all on Brady.  He’s running a lot what Dorsey spent 1.5 years designing and building.  He can’t throw it all out mid year and start from scratch.    
 

You forgot almost immediate pressure up the middle on a number of plays.  Nothing hamstrings a QB like interior pressure.  Allen avoids the sack in ways that only a couple of other QB's can and then tries to make a throw while running for his life or getting clobbered as he releases the ball. Most QB's would have been sacked 3 or 4 more times today then Allen was.  Ditto for the last game. 

 

Amazingly Allen's accuracy seems quite good when he actually has a pocket to throw from.

 

 

 

 

[KOKBILLS]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

This is not to mention the turnovers.  That INT today was a first down throw.  It wasn’t an “arm punt” on 3rd down.  

 

That pass was so incredibly bad today... Should have never been thrown. But there was a slight opportunity if the ball is out quicker and it's a rope. Instead he's late and he lofts it up there so soft it's an easy INT... Totally agree on the 1st down point as well... Embarrassing... He HAS to be better yet he keeps doing these stupid...Just dumb things... It's so incredibly frustrating because, like most of you, this is my favorite player ever... Even more than any of the late 80's-90's Bills. But it is what it is at this point. 

 

The INT across his body vs SD was also a terrible decision. Both those INT's were at points of the game where you get a sustained drive for points and you can take a BIG step putting the game away early. But instead you give the other team life. And he's done that so much this year it's more than troubling. I'm not sure I can take another year like this....lol

[BillsVet]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But also,  Brady has killed the pass game in general.    Everybody but Cook looks worse in the pass game with Brady than they had with Dorsey.   The sample size is just small enough and people are still feeling sated about the Dorsey firing that they haven't gotten around to their pitchforks just yet.     

 

On the broadcast, they showed the run-pass play-calling between the 2 OC's.  Dorsey was 46% run to 54%...but Brady is 53 to 47 in his 6 games.

 

Looking at current defensive ranks, Dorsey faced 6 teams ranked in the bottom third of (EDIT: pass defenses) and only twice ran it more than 50%.  Brady's faced mostly mid-ranked (EDIT: pass) defenses and run it 50% or more 4 times. 

 

Brady's delivering on the HC's desire for a balanced and safer offense, but they're more predictable.  Of course, the passing game would be better if they'd invest in WR's more, but almost no one knew Gabe and their group of WR3-5 would disappoint.    

Edited January 1 by BillsVet

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Might need @HoofHearted to explain what is going on here.

 

The All-22 will come out and reveal some.

 

I thought the offensive line got whipped in the first half.

 

Josh with the 0% brains interception.

 

I have no idea what’s going on with Diggs. Allen hits him on that 91-yarder and all the stats look better. But that’s just other long ones to Diggs this year that haven’t connected.

 

Not sure what the game plan was this week. Sometimes we use Cook down the field as a pass catcher, most times we don’t. 
 

Another quiet one from Gabe, he did have that nice 3rd-Down conversion. He seems to really be a broken coverage long touchdown/deep throw, or nothing. 

 

I think Sherfield is useless. There is really no roster room for Shorter, but couldn’t they just waive Sherfield and put Shorter in that a slot?

 

Allen was not sharp. Too often everywhere but hitting WRs in stride. Guys having to reach low, high, behind to dive at the ground for balls. 
 

Knox with a drop on a 10-yard rocket, Cook with a drop, Murray with a drop. 

[In Summary]

5 hours ago, Chugga said:

 I think the blueprint is to take away Diggs and hope Allen gets bored taking the easy stuff.

Yes

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 hours ago, The 9 Isles said:

I think the YAC issue is mainly to do with Allen’s ball placement. He rarely hits a receiver in stride and leads a lot of throws out of bounds. I understand that some of that is designed to prevent turnovers but at the same time there are receivers on occasion open and either have to slow down or adjust or get over thrown. 

Guys are constantly have to reach behind, high, 2-mm above the carpet, dive on the turf.

 

The placement was all over today. 
 

He used the same phrase today as he has before - feeling good coming out of the hand. 

[Goin Breakdown]

5 hours ago, Success said:

My biggest memories of Sherfield from this season will be of him kind of getting open over the middle for a 15-20 yard gain, but getting kind of interfered w/ and not being able to complete the play.

 

Who?

[Big Turk]

I think maybe we have seen the rest of the NFL catch up to the Daboll offense and perhaps specifically the things that give Allen trouble defensively.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if we went in a different direction offensively in the off-season. Seems like we have been getting diminishing returns offensively each year since 2020.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Big Turk said:

I think maybe we have seen the rest of the NFL catch up to the Daboll offense and perhaps specifically the things that give Allen trouble defensively.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if we went in a different direction offensively in the off-season. Seems like we have been getting diminishing returns offensively each year since 2020.

Yes this is a good point.

 

The personnel limitations have been well documented.

 

But this is the hand Brady the OC job now thread, and I said back then - no, you have to conduct a real coaching search and if he wins the job against real competition, fine, but the interim tag should not just be removed. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

That pass was so incredibly bad today... Should have never been thrown. But there was a slight opportunity if the ball is out quicker and it's a rope. Instead he's late and he lofts it up there so soft it's an easy INT... Totally agree on the 1st down point as well... Embarrassing... He HAS to be better yet he keeps doing these stupid...Just dumb things... It's so incredibly frustrating because, like most of you, this is my favorite player ever... Even more than any of the late 80's-90's Bills. But it is what it is at this point. 

 

The INT across his body vs SD was also a terrible decision. Both those INT's were at points of the game where you get a sustained drive for points and you can take a BIG step putting the game away early. But instead you give the other team life. And he's done that so much this year it's more than troubling. I'm not sure I can take another year like this....lol

He def missed throws today and the INT actually annoyed me less than some of the other throws he missed.  Safety made a nice play on that pick baiting him into it 

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I think maybe we have seen the rest of the NFL catch up to the Daboll offense and perhaps specifically the things that give Allen trouble defensively.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if we went in a different direction offensively in the off-season. Seems like we have been getting diminishing returns offensively each year since 2020.

Feels like the nfl has caught up to nearly everyone’s offense this year 😂