Improvement needed by Bills - Special teams

[Punching Bag]

Special teams are weak both kicking and returns.

Bills need to hire an assistant to special teams with knowledge of kicking who help our kickers get their groove back.

An ex-kicker would probably be best.

 

 

No need to fire anyone but they want to an extra kicker and put on practice squad that is fine also.

[mrags]

Fire the returner. Because HarDLY sucks 

[Bubba Gump]

The punter sucks. The ST coverage is fine. Harty had one of his better games against the Cowpies. Anything else to complain about after a great win?

[ganesh]

Who was the player who decided to run back the Kickoff and stopped at the 11 yard line ?  That was a terrible decision even though at that point it was not going to impact the game.   You have to play a full 60 minute game

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Who was the player who decided to run back the Kickoff and stopped at the 11 yard line ?  That was a terrible decision even though at that point it was not going to impact the game.   You have to play a full 60 minute game

This is consistent in the NFL, especially now with the fair catch rule on kickoffs.  You are likely better calling for a fair catch every time.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Martin and the punt protection team are really struggling.  Dallas really should have blocked the punt on which they were called for roughing the punter, and they had come close to a block on the previous Bills punt as well.

[Doc Brown]

21 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Who was the player who decided to run back the Kickoff and stopped at the 11 yard line ?  That was a terrible decision even though at that point it was not going to impact the game.   You have to play a full 60 minute game

They had their onsides kick unit on and Harty just went down to avoid a fumble at the end of the game so they could run out the clock.  I'm guessing that's what he was instructed to do.  They obviously rely on him the most as a returner as he only has one muff this year I believe on 40 or so punt return opportunities.

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Martin and the punt protection team are really struggling.  Dallas really should have blocked the punt on which they were called for roughing the punter, and they had come close to a block on the previous Bills punt as well.

Brilliant play as the blocking ineptitude allowed the savvy veteran in Martin to get that punt off and draw the personal foul.  Led to a Touchdown.  

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Special teams are weak both kicking and returns.

Bills need to hire an assistant to special teams with knowledge of kicking who help our kickers get their groove back.

An ex-kicker would probably be best.

 

 

No need to fire anyone but they want to an extra kicker and put on practice squad that is fine also.

Or just get a better coordinator. Kick and punt coverage are bad too. 

[Punching Bag]

54 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Or just get a better coordinator. Kick and punt coverage are bad too. 

 

That was Coach McD method when he because head coach.  He basically let go all of staff (helped cut down on leaks), scouts and coaches.

 

Changing Special Teams coach with four games left makes no sense but bringing a consultant makes more sense.

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Martin and the punt protection team are really struggling.  Dallas really should have blocked the punt on which they were called for roughing the punter, and they had come close to a block on the previous Bills punt as well.

On the play that ended up roughing, it looked like the up man (I think it was Hamlin) started going upfield to cover the return immediately instead of staying in to block. 

 

This could have been by design (which is my guess) or could have simply been a case of a guy that hasn't played a lot this year being overanxious to get upfield and make a play. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

We need a new punter before the post season.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

The punter sucks. The ST coverage is fine. Harty had one of his better games against the Cowpies. Anything else to complain about after a great win?

Harty has not been spectacular but he had a good game yesterday with no fumbles and 1 good return.  The biggest need is a better punter and punt blocking at the line.  2 close calls yesterday that could've changed the game completely. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I wonder if they're checking on him more and more?

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

7 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Martin and the punt protection team are really struggling.  Dallas really should have blocked the punt on which they were called for roughing the punter, and they had come close to a block on the previous Bills punt as well.

Yeah Hamlin i think it was bailed as soon as the ball was snapped, the Dallas guy beat the long snapper and it had a clear shot 

[davefan66]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I wonder if they're checking on him more and more?

 

 

Sign him to the PS.  Won’t get as much attention as straight to the roster.  Probably wouldn’t sign him to the roster until next season u less something goes wrong with Martin injury wise or gets worse.

[Big Turk]

20 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I wonder if they're checking on him more and more?

 

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see him as our punter next year. Ironically while it sucks for him he had to go thru this and fight to get back in, it may benefit him financially as now he is a free agent and not subject to the rookie wage scale limitations of a late round pick.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Big Turk

[reddogblitz]

I've been saying for weeks if we miss the playoffs we can talk offense/defense/Dorsey/Brady/McDermott til we're blue in the face but it will be because of the 2 losses lost by kicking teams. 12 men on the field and the punt return for a TD in OT in the Jets game.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is consistent in the NFL, especially now with the fair catch rule on kickoffs.  You are likely better calling for a fair catch every time.

No. The prblem is this guy caught the ball at 5 and then gave up at 11... He could have done a fair catch at 11 and the ball would have been at 25

[boater]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Special teams are weak both kicking and returns.

Bills need to hire an assistant to special teams with knowledge of kicking who help our kickers get their groove back.

An ex-kicker would probably be best.

 

 

No need to fire anyone but they want to an extra kicker and put on practice squad that is fine also.

I'm not normally a "fire him" type of guy, but I have to say: we need a new special teams coach. 12 men on the field, and KO coverage lapses come to mind.

 

And the Bills sorely need a speedy return man. They got nothing. When Hines is recuperated, will he have his speed back? I don't know.

 

And Matt Araiza would be a nice upgrade to Sam Martin. Almost anything will be an upgrade to Martin.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, boater said:

I'm not normally a "fire him" type of guy, but I have to say: we need a new special teams coach. 12 men on the field, and KO coverage lapses come to mind.

 

And the Bills sorely need a speedy return man. They got nothing. When Hines is recuperated, will he have his speed back? I don't know.

 

And Matt Araiza would be a nice upgrade to Sam Martin. Almost anything will be an upgrade to Martin.

 

Hardy IMO was a GM mistake unless he is being misused. He is being paid a great amount for what he is doing .

 

Matt Araiza can be put on PS and elevated for 3 games.  He has not played for a long time,

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Sign him to the PS.  Won’t get as much attention as straight to the roster.  Probably wouldn’t sign him to the roster until next season u less something goes wrong with Martin injury wise or gets worse.

 

He can be elevated to play three times from practice squad,

[boater]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Hardy IMO was a GM mistake unless he is being misused. He is being paid a great amount for what he is doing .

 

Matt Araiza can be put on PS and elevated for 3 games.  He has not played for a long time,

I'd wait until the off-season. Sam Martin is settled in as holder right now. I wouldn't want to disrupt that chemistry this close to the playoffs.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Special teams are weak both kicking and returns.

Bills need to hire an assistant to special teams with knowledge of kicking who help our kickers get their groove back.

An ex-kicker would probably be best.

 

 

No need to fire anyone but they want to an extra kicker and put on practice squad that is fine also.

Sam Martin has to go. I’ve never seen so many punts around the 50 yard line result in touchbacks. Would’ve been better of keeping Boroquez if we aren’t going to have a directional punter(I know i butchered his name.) It’s a shame about Araiza. The field position game is going to get even more important in the post-season and every game isn’t a blow out. Actually, the whole special teams has been a disgrace this year. 

[sullim4]

6 minutes ago, boater said:

I'd wait until the off-season. Sam Martin is settled in as holder right now. I wouldn't want to disrupt that chemistry this close to the playoffs.

 

I hate to bring back the holder debate, but I agree with this.

 

I think any risk to the field goal unit by bringing in a new holder this late in the season, regardless of Araiza's supposed improved skills here, is not worth the yardage gains he might provide on punts.

 

Sign him to the PS, let him work with Bass in practice, and put him on the 53 man roster next year.  Don't do it this year unless Martin actually was injured yesterday on the roughing call.

[billsfan89]

ST unit has been below average this season. Not tragic, but its not been its usual solid self. They haven't let up too many big returns (I think the Jets return was the only TD let up and about 2 other decent-sized chunk returns from my memory) but they haven't made many plays either (the second Jets game fumble being the only "big" play). The punting has been OK to below average and the kicking has been poor (Out of eligible kickers Bass is ranked 23rd in accuracy and has only attempted 6 Field Goals over 50 yards a fairly average amount of difficult kicks). 

 

The ST unit cost this team a game with an unforced error (the Broncos mishap), the ST unit mistake against the Jets ended up being the final nail in the coffin in the opener, and Bass's missed kicks probably cost this team a chance to be in a better position to win the Eagles game and the Pats game. Bass's missed kicks also put this team in a very dangerous position against the Giants where they could have easily lost that game. 

 

It's not been a great season for the ST unit. The ST unit in 2022 was one of this team's strengths and was a factor in the teams 13 win record. The ST unit helped win a pair of games with the clutch Bass kick against the Lions on Thanksgiving and the Hines pair of TD returns against the Pats (which kept the Bills from being behind the eight ball in a slow start to the game on the other sides of the ball). Bass kicked less from outside 50 so I can't say his accuracy was dramatically better in 2022 but Martin was punting a lot better and the coverage units were more solid. 

 

Overall the ST unit last season was a above average to lower top 10 unit. This year the unit is probably decidedly below average and probably ranked in the lower 20's and its made a difference thus far in the teams record. 

[Billy Claude]

39 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

ST unit has been below average this season. Not tragic, but its not been its usual solid self. They haven't let up too many big returns (I think the Jets return was the only TD let up and about 2 other decent-sized chunk returns from my memory) but they haven't made many plays either (the second Jets game fumble being the only "big" play). The punting has been OK to below average and the kicking has been poor (Out of eligible kickers Bass is ranked 23rd in accuracy and has only attempted 6 Field Goals over 50 yards a fairly average amount of difficult kicks). 

 

The ST unit cost this team a game with an unforced error (the Broncos mishap), the ST unit mistake against the Jets ended up being the final nail in the coffin in the opener, and Bass's missed kicks probably cost this team a chance to be in a better position to win the Eagles game and the Pats game. Bass's missed kicks also put this team in a very dangerous position against the Giants where they could have easily lost that game. 

 

It's not been a great season for the ST unit. The ST unit in 2022 was one of this team's strengths and was a factor in the teams 13 win record. The ST unit helped win a pair of games with the clutch Bass kick against the Lions on Thanksgiving and the Hines pair of TD returns against the Pats (which kept the Bills from being behind the eight ball in a slow start to the game on the other sides of the ball). Bass kicked less from outside 50 so I can't say his accuracy was dramatically better in 2022 but Martin was punting a lot better and the coverage units were more solid. 

 

Overall the ST unit last season was a above average to lower top 10 unit. This year the unit is probably decidedly below average and probably ranked in the lower 20's and its made a difference thus far in the teams record. 

 

 

Your analysis is great except for the part about the ST unit not being football "tragic".  When the special teams has directly lost two games (and indirectly lost more than two games due to high percentage makeable miss field goals and the lack of confidence in the kicker adversely affecting in game decisions) and your fighting for a playoff spot than that is definitely "tragic" in a football sense.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Billy Claude

[frostbitmic]

They just need to add a couple more ST only players at a fairly high cost.

[BCAS Baritone]

15 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is consistent in the NFL, especially now with the fair catch rule on kickoffs.  You are likely better calling for a fair catch every time.

I don't  think you can do a fair catch once the ball hits the ground, and that kick was a squib.  They just wanted to get the ball our far enough so they could kneel it out comfortably.  It was the smart play.

 

[Gugny]

16 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Special teams are weak both kicking and returns.

Bills need to hire an assistant to special teams with knowledge of kicking who help our kickers get their groove back.

An ex-kicker would probably be best.

 

 

No need to fire anyone but they want to an extra kicker and put on practice squad that is fine also.

 

16 hours ago, mrags said:

Fire the returner. Because HarDLY sucks 

Maybe he has COVID. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Augie]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I wonder if they're checking on him more and more?

 

 

 

I don’t know if they will sign him, or even if they might be interested, but I feel good to hear they were staying in touch with him. That’s the right thing to do as a person, even if it might be awkward in some ways.