Gabe's momma chimes in

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He finished last year as #2 in yards, TDs, 1st downs and #1 in YPC.  This year he has cut down his drop % by half--the same as Digg's now (although Diggs has twice as many drops this year)

 

what else you got?

He’s the number 2 WR, he should. He’s gotten more play time, targets and opportunities than anyone else not named Diggs.  He still has to do his job better, if he did we wouldn’t be having this conversation 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BananaB

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I think the loss of Beas and the fact we have no other capable #2 Gabe has gotten more attention and he’s just not good enough to handle it. 

 

That's a reasonable take.  The whole premise of the Bills FO last season was that they didn't need to replace Sanders or Beasley because Davis and McKenzie were ready to step up, with Jamison Crowder and rookie Khalil Shakir as Plan B.

 

That premise did not prove out and Plan B was from outer space.

[pennstate10]

11 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I was under the impression he had a corner route and should have recognized the pressure and ran a post instead?

 

Presuming we're talking about the non-TD in overtime at Philly...

 

Heres' what happened.  Davis get up on the CB.  CB had inside leverage.  Which maybe dictates you break out.  But there was a zero blitz and middle of field unoccupied.  Which maybe dictates you break to middle of field, espcially given that the CB stumbled and was offbalance.  Allen throws to inside, while Davis broke outside.  

 

Who was "wrong"  I dont really know, and I doubt people on this board know either.  It depends what the Bills choice rules are.  There were pros and cons either way.

[34-78-83]

90% of our fans miss the deal.... Too much narrow focus on if he is a #2.

 

Gabe is fine ..... As a #3 or #4.

 

Pay him accordingly and its perfectly fine to have him on our team.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He’s the number 2 WR, he should. He’s gotten more play time, targets and opportunities than anyone else not named Diggs.  He still has to do his job better, if he did we wouldn’t be having this conversation 

 

he'a #3 in targets

[Since1981]

3 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Gabe is fine ..... As a #3 or #4.

 

Pay him accordingly and its perfectly fine to have him on our team.

Agree on 3,4.
 

But without an actual WR2…

gabe did okay when the team actullay had a WR2 such as Beas/Brown/ sanders!!

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

You got to see a guy open by 15 yards in the endzone though. 

 

Unfortunately that isn't how it works. If Kincaid was Allen's 1st or 2nd read and he liked the matchup, he has to throw the ball to him, especially with pressure getting there. He isn't quickly checking to see if Davis is wide open, he's already starting to prepare his body to throw to Kincaid and would never have gotten to Davis next.

 

If Allen misread the read pre-snap that's one thing but no one other than him or Brady know if that's true.

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

he'a #3 in targets

Wasn’t last year. And he’s not third in targets to WRs, to Kincaid who has proved to be very reliable once Knox got injured. He earned his targets where Gabes play has earned him less time. 

[Jerry Jabber]

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bills WR! essentially disappeared 2 months ago...

 

And he had a total of 51 yards vs the Jets and KC Defenses----2 and 3 yards per target!!

 

But Davis, with hardly any targets recently, yet still #2 in yards, 1st downs and TDs is THE huge problem in the receiver room...

Do you think gabe is a viable WR2 for this team?

[Warcodered]

 

[Goin Breakdown]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

Man some of those shots sure make it look like Gabe was open more than we give him credit for. I would have loved to hear what he was saying when he was wide open running into the end zone. 

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Man some of those shots sure make it look like Gabe was open more than we give him credit for. I would have loved to hear what he was saying when he was wide open running into the end zone. 

Yeah I don’t think Gabe’s covered nearly every route he runs, but for whatever reason he and Josh just don’t jive. I remember in TC Josh saying Kincaid was “fun to throw to” and “gives good body language.” I’ve never heard him say something similar about Davis.

Josh just doesn’t have the same trust in him and Gabe only reinforces that distrust when seemingly the highest percentage of Allen’s INTs are in his direction.

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Kind of funny how Davis got all the blame for not breaking off his route against Philly, yet there's little blame for Allen missing Gabe wide open for a TD for the 2nd week in a row.

yes, it’s easier to properly run a route than to expect a qb to see every open opportunity, progression and pressure be damned 

[DapperCam]

7 hours ago, BRH said:

Mama seems like 90% of youth/travel parents I knew in my day.

 

Team won?  Who cares.  My kid didn't get the ball enough.

 

It’s a contract year, I get it. Gabe made his bed by being so inconsistent though.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Wasn’t last year. And he’s not third in targets to WRs, to Kincaid who has proved to be very reliable once Knox got injured. He earned his targets where Gabes play has earned him less time. 

 

Davis appeared in 88% of Offensive snaps, compared to 68% for Kincaid.

 

keep going...

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Do you think gabe is a viable WR2 for this team?

 

 

I've said it all year.  He needs more targets.  Allen only sees Diggs at this point--and Diggs isn't producing.  Not at WR1 level. 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This is the best OLine Allen has ever played behind. Chiefs have an excellent defense this season and played well at home. Sometimes you just have to tip the cap to the other team.

 

No doubt.  But the point is that our OL could have been a whole lot better but we've never done much to make it that way when Allen's the centerpiece of our entire team.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

48 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Yeah I don’t think Gabe’s covered nearly every route he runs, but for whatever reason he and Josh just don’t jive. I remember in TC Josh saying Kincaid was “fun to throw to” and “gives good body language.” I’ve never heard him say something similar about Davis.

Josh just doesn’t have the same trust in him and Gabe only reinforces that distrust when seemingly the highest percentage of Allen’s INTs are in his direction.

 

That's because he's 3 yards away

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

You can see so clearly on this tighter film what he does well and doesn't do well. 

 

Long, powerful, great release, sneaky fast with a long stride. 

 

Poor acceleration, agility, sloppy footwork, route running. 

 

I'm not joking, but it would have probably been in his best interest to add 25 pounds and play TE. His skills are TE skills. That's not insulating the man. If anything we would be saying he's an athletic freak at TE. But at WR he's just not twitchy enough. 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Davis appeared in 88% of Offensive snaps, compared to 68% for Kincaid.

 

keep going...

 

 

I've said it all year.  He needs more targets.  Allen only sees Diggs at this point--and Diggs isn't producing.  Not at WR1 level. 

Idk, I don’t know why you’ve said all year.  I don’t read many of your posts.  
 

So did you say that you think Davis is a viable WR2?  You believe he’s a good enough WR to be our WR2 going forward?  
 

Do you hope he’s resigned?  If so, say you’re the GM, how much would you be comfortable paying him per season?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Idk, I don’t know why you’ve said all year.  I don’t read many of your posts.  
 

So did you say that you think Davis is a viable WR2?  You believe he’s a good enough WR to be our WR2 going forward?  
 

Do you hope he’s resigned?  If so, say you’re the GM, how much would you be comfortable paying him per season?

 

 

lol

 

anyway...

 

he needs more touches.  I would let him test the market.  Make him an offer.  With the boost in cap coming who cares.

 

The real issue is the production at WR1.  Look at the last 7 games and tell me that's value for the money with Diggs. Brady needs to tell Josh to move off Diggs some.  It's a problem.  

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Davis appeared in 88% of Offensive snaps, compared to 68% for Kincaid.

 

keep going...

 

 

I've said it all year.  He needs more targets.  Allen only sees Diggs at this point--and Diggs isn't producing.  Not at WR1 level. 

His time in the field has been decreasing and his opportunities are decreasing while Kincaid and Shakirs is rising. You can go on about your stats that make you believe you are smart as ***** but it doesn’t change that fact Gabe has been a very inconsistent player for us since getting promoted to #2 roll. Give it a break 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, BananaB said:

His time in the field has been decreasing and his opportunities are decreasing while Kincaid and Shakirs is rising. You can go on about your stats that make you believe you are smart as ***** but it doesn’t change that fact Gabe has been a very inconsistent player for us since getting promoted to #2 roll. Give it a break 

 

 

his snap % is essentially the same as last year, despite Kincaid and Shakir.

 

You see...you've mentioned stats (incorrectly) in every post.  Now we have to forget about stats (they are Gabe's, not mine) because they all counter your inane point?  

 

your arguments are not compelling......and I'm being kind here

 

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's because he's 3 yards away

Maybe it’s because he’s catching over 80% of his targets. Same with Shakir who seems to be getting targeted more then Gabe the past  little bit, he’s catching over 80% as well. Since you so good with stats what is Gabes catch percentage again?

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

his snap % is essentially the same as last year, despite Kincaid and Shakir.

 

You see...you've mentioned stats (incorrectly) in every post.  Now we have to forget about stats (they are Gabe's, not mine) because they all counter your inane point?  

 

your arguments are not compelling......and I'm being kind here

 

 

Gabes inconsistent that’s my point. You keep looking at totals instead of looking at game to game production.  

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

lol

 

anyway...

 

he needs more touches.  I would let him test the market.  Make him an offer.  With the boost in cap coming who cares.

 

The real issue is the production at WR1.  Look at the last 7 games and tell me that's value for the money with Diggs. Brady needs to tell Josh to move off Diggs some.  It's a problem.  

Focusing on Diggs definitely looks be a problem for 17.  I’m disappointed and somewhat shocked at Diggs’ performance over the last few weeks.  Based on his previous 3 seasons of work, I believe he’s worthy of the focus.  He just hasn’t been up to the task recently.  
 

i also believe opposing defenses double and scheme to take Diggs out of the game because Gabe doesn’t scare anyone.  
 

i’d offer Gabe 4-5M on a one year deal thanks to his blocking ability and acclimation with the locker room.  His production is a product of Josh Allens greatness and opportunity.  Just being out there with 17 throwing the ball will make him more money than he’s worth.  
 

as a man, I’m a huge fan of Gabe Davis.   I appreciate his hard work and dedication to becoming the best he can be.  I thought he might’ve been viable wr2.  I don’t anymore.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by NewEra

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

yes, it’s easier to properly run a route than to expect a qb to see every open opportunity, progression and pressure be damned 

 

Right because there's no way Gabe ran the correct route in Philly and Josh made the mistake.

 

*AND Josh was moving to his left.   Had he gone through his progressions he would have seen Gabe wide open.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

This is just sad. 

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

...two years later he started 11 games for a playoff team, three years later he made the pro bowl and became a second-team all-pro for an 8-9 team

 

You wanna do Zay Jones as well?  Two years after his Daddy called our QB out on the Twitters, he broke 500 yds on a 47 reception season, 3 years later on his 3rd team he broke 800 yds and started to look like he could play NFL football.

 

I mean... I don't wanna pay Davis 10-15 mil per year just to wait 6 more years for him to look competent.  Good on Zay Jones for becoming a mid receiver, but he wasn't good enough in his time here.  I'm also not looking for mid. Teller was just a numbers game and at the time was the odd man out.  For all the stories about 1 dude there are 10-20 DaRick Rodgers or Fosters out there.

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Mango, I lack all-22. 

 

If you have it, especially if you have the little moving diagram thing, can you look at what kind of pressure Josh had at the point where Davis was open and Josh threw?  In the televised view which shows Josh protected, then looks downfield, it's hard to see what was going on at the point where Josh had to decide.

 

I dont have the all 22. but you can see this play online.  By the time Josh threw, the pressure was there.  He could have hit Davis earlier though.  He stayed on Diggs too long IMO and thats why he didn't see Davis.  By the time Josh came off Diggs it was too late.

[Scott7975]

Too many people emphasize drops stat.  That stat requires a perfect ball to be dropped for it to be considered a drop.  Right in the numbers.  No reaching.  No leaving feet. Etc.  Davis has more drops than 3. An NFL WR is expected to catch more than just perfect throws.  Now, obviously not all his targets are catchable but there are way more than just the 3 drops.  Sometimes a WR needs to make a play too.  Not just one that hits him in the pretty spot.

 

The bigger problem right now is all the Diggs drops IMO though.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Do you think gabe is a viable WR2 for this team?

 

You didn't ask me but I want to answer anyways.  I do not think so.  I like Gabe.  I think he is decent. I also think NFL offenses are shifting to having more than 1/2.  Its more like 1/1 to be a really good offense.  This team needs better than Gabe.  I wouldn't mind keeping him on a cheaper deal as a #2 if we have a 1/1 as well.  They need to draft a WR high this year regardless of the defense needing a reload IMO.  Just look at Cinci this year.  They are still killing it without Burrow.  That isn't because their backup is great.  It's because their skill positions are.  If you want to be a consistent top offense then you need consistent top skill makers.  Gabe is not that.  I said the same thing last year too.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, BananaB said:

Maybe it’s because he’s catching over 80% of his targets. Same with Shakir who seems to be getting targeted more then Gabe the past  little bit, he’s catching over 80% as well. Since you so good with stats what is Gabes catch percentage again?

 

8 hours ago, BananaB said:

Gabes inconsistent that’s my point. You keep looking at totals instead of looking at game to game production.  

 

Hard to make catches when you aren't getting targets.  Easy to make catches when you are running 4 yard outs.  Kincaid is a good receiver.  His route tree is nonexistent. His YPC is tiny because of this. He is also misused. So is Davis.  

 

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Focusing on Diggs definitely looks be a problem for 17.  I’m disappointed and somewhat shocked at Diggs’ performance over the last few weeks.  Based on his previous 3 seasons of work, I believe he’s worthy of the focus.  He just hasn’t been up to the task recently.  
 

i also believe opposing defenses double and scheme to take Diggs out of the game because Gabe doesn’t scare anyone.  
 

i’d offer Gabe 4-5M on a one year deal thanks to his blocking ability and acclimation with the locker room.  His production is a product of Josh Allens greatness and opportunity.  Just being out there with 17 throwing the ball will make him more money than he’s worth.  
 

as a man, I’m a huge fan of Gabe Davis.   I appreciate his hard work and dedication to becoming the best he can be.  I thought he might’ve been viable wr2.  I don’t anymore.  

 

 

For the bolded, the last few games do not support this claim, obviously.   

 

And even if teams are doubling Diggs a lot (they aren't) than why would Allen continue to force him the ball?  Although this board loves to endlessly heap the same abuse on Davis over and over, Diggs is  a huge problem right now--more so than Davis.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

And even if teams are doubling Diggs a lot (they aren't) than why would Allen continue to force him the ball?  Although this board loves to endlessly heap the same abuse on Davis over and over, Diggs is  a huge problem right now--more so than Davis.

 

Our ppg average has risen nearly 10 ppg in our last 3 games.  We are beating defenses differently and once that shifts, we shift again.  It's not a huge problem unless you're individually box score scouting.  

 

Davis is a much more significant problem.  A Diggs skid doesn't mean he's a bigger problem when Davis has been shut out 3 of the last 5 games.

 

Davis provides one thing, an occasional deep chunk play.  Allen and Brady aren't going to him very often because they believe there are better options on each play.

He's not a twitchy guy that gets open, he has average hands, doesn't have good run after catch and for whatever reason, isn't on the same page as Allen a lot.  

 

Diggs is going to have his big games again soon.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

Focusing on Diggs definitely looks be a problem for 17.  I’m disappointed and somewhat shocked at Diggs’ performance over the last few weeks.  Based on his previous 3 seasons of work, I believe he’s worthy of the focus.  He just hasn’t been up to the task recently.  
 

i also believe opposing defenses double and scheme to take Diggs out of the game because Gabe doesn’t scare anyone.  
 

i’d offer Gabe 4-5M on a one year deal thanks to his blocking ability and acclimation with the locker room.  His production is a product of Josh Allens greatness and opportunity.  Just being out there with 17 throwing the ball will make him more money than he’s worth.  
 

as a man, I’m a huge fan of Gabe Davis.   I appreciate his hard work and dedication to becoming the best he can be.  I thought he might’ve been viable wr2.  I don’t anymore.  

We just need to let him walk.  Our 1st rounder, and I'm a big fan of moving up, needs to be WR.

[BananaB]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Hard to make catches when you aren't getting targets.  Easy to make catches when you are running 4 yard outs.  Kincaid is a good receiver.  His route tree is nonexistent. His YPC is tiny because of this. He is also misused. So is Davis.  

 

 

 

For the bolded, the last few games do not support this claim, obviously.   

 

And even if teams are doubling Diggs a lot (they aren't) than why would Allen continue to force him the ball?  Although this board loves to endlessly heap the same abuse on Davis over and over, Diggs is  a huge problem right now--more so than Davis.

I give up. Your crush for Gabe blinding your vision

[pocoboy]

17 hours ago, Ben said:

Josh has lost confidence in him because he's too inconsistent. No one to blame but himself

 

I'm quite sure this play breaks down within a second of the snap. I don't know if it's a lack of OL conditioning, or poor technique, but they got gashed quick, and Josh bailed to a shorter throw because he was off his wrong foot on the throw.

 

With that said, I would hope that Allen gets a little flak in the video review, if the early reads indicate Gabe's gonna be wide open on that route, take the chance you get hit and deliver the dagger blow.

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I give up. Your crush for Gabe blinding your vision

Don’t give up!  This is so much fun!  Dude just likes to argue so much that his ego allows to to think gabe Davis is a viable WR2 and that Allen/Diggs are the bigger problem 😂 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Trade him to the Jets?  Then mom will be busy fending off Zach, and too busy for social media? 🤔

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Airseven]

Very well should’ve been back to back losses where Allen missed a wide open Davis in the clutch, settled for the FG, and handed the game back to the defense to give up the winning TD. It’s both understandably frustrating and quite a bizarre circumstance.

[RunTheBall]

 Davis is done. He won ‘t be back unless he takes a really team friendly deal. Someone will offer him bucks.

 

Josh has lost confidence in Davis and I think it’s easy to see why. When a large chunk of your interceptions come when targeting one guy I think that’s going to get into your head a little bit. Couple that with Davis’ inability to separate, his limited route tree, and his lack of contested catches you can understand why he’s #3 in most progressions. Brady has Kincaid as the #2 target, and rightly so. Davis may have a couple of good games left in him but I don’t expect to see his targets increase unless we play a team that Brady feels we can exploit with Gabe’s limited skill set.

 

On that missed TD against KC, I think if you asked Josh he’d absolutely take responsibility for missing a wide open guy. He should have hit him. So why didn’t he? I think it’s a few factors - 1) It wasn’t a designed play call, I think it was another screen to Diggs 2) Josh’s internal clock was sped up from all the pressure 3) Kincaid was 1 on 1 and Josh trusts him more in that situation 4) He just didn’t see him because Davis was later in the progression. Still, that’s a gimme TD Josh should have hit.

 

As for Diggs, that’s got me concerned. Something looks off. I remember a report a few weeks back of a back injury - is Diggs working through something? I can live with Davis getting a few targets a game but I think if we are going to go on a run we need our WR #1 to be heavily involved in the offense. I think Brady tried to get him the ball with those screens but Diggs has been dropping a lot. Idk it’s weird and hope it works itself out quick.