LabattBlue Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) Does the NFL make it illegal to push the QB on a sneak, or even go one step further and avoid these rugby style scrums for any ball carrier? Edited November 18, 2023 by LabattBlue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessImproverMan Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Goodell and the NFL have a history of changing the game for the worse when a star protected player gets hurt (see Rodgers years ago against the Vikings which influenced the body weight rule). I expect someone to get hurt during this and the rule to change. The Eagles play the Chiefs this week. If a Chiefs player gets hurt, expect rule change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I think they should but don't think they will. They like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I feel like defenses are already so hindered. If defenses cannot push them back because of forward progress I feel it should be the same the other way around. I don’t care about the tush push, Philly don’t even need it. Ban it tomorrow they still probably convert over 90% and it’s not like anyone else is having that much success doing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 They probably will, but not until someone gets injured. Sooner or later, defensive coordinators will get smart and start telling their biggest, meanest dudes to try and time the snap and fly over the offensive line into Hurts. If they're offside, who cares? Same result. And one of these big, mean dudes is going to barrel into Hurts' legs before the snap or clean his clock when he tries to dive over the pile. When one of the faces of the NFL gets injured doing this play, they'll ban it the following off-season. Until then, it's creating a lot of controversy and the NFL loves controversy more than it loves football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 They better not make it illegal. The more scrums the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 7 hours ago, peterpan said: Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down That would be the whole 9 yards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAinLack. Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 11 hours ago, Rc2catch said: I feel like defenses are already so hindered. If defenses cannot push them back because of forward progress I feel it should be the same the other way around. I don’t care about the tush push, Philly don’t even need it. Ban it tomorrow they still probably convert over 90% and it’s not like anyone else is having that much success doing it. Interestingly, in the Maryland vs Michigan game yesterday - Maryland while inside the 5-yard line brought in their 6'6" tight end to play QB and was supported by 2 running backs tush pushing his azz into the end zone 3 times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 11 hours ago, peterpan said: Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down "This 'close enough' first down brought to you by your Toyota Dealers in your hometown." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I asked the wife if I could try the Tush Push with her. I slept on the couch last night… 🤷♂️ 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Chandman, rookie mistake. 😂🏈🏋️♀️ As far as the scrum, I was fine at first with the play, but several teams have tried it and some guys injured. Then I was listening to Movin the Chains and Pat made a salient point. He had Paul Alexander on, and another Rugby guy on different days, and the risk to a neck injury is a real possibility. Lately, refs have been more active in calling encroachment before this play as the linemen cheat the line. That’s their current plan, so I did say yes, make it illegal. I don’t ever want to see any player get a snapped neck. That would be horrible for the sport. It’s not that I don’t appreciate the physicality of the sport, but there is also a balance with safety. I don’t think the Eagles are cheating. I also am fine with the traditional QB sneak as Brady embarrassed teams forever, but it wasn’t a rush push. He knew how to get low quickly and get that last two feet. I know everyone hates Brady, but he was a master of the sneak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 The league has already told Refs to watch for and call Guards for Offside on tush push plays. Seems they think it’s too easy and bad for the game. This probably bears watching in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Unless it's recently changed and I missed it, it's been against the rules to aide a runner by pulling them forward from the front. I don't understand why that would be a foul but pushing from behind isn't. And that goes for more than the Brotherly Tush Shove. That said, the Shove is 100% defendable. You stop it on 1st down and 2nd down and don't let them get into 3rd or 4th and short. That's basic football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Unless it's recently changed and I missed it, it's been against the rules to aide a runner by pulling them forward from the front. I don't understand why that would be a foul but pushing from behind isn't. And that goes for more than the Brotherly Tush Shove. That said, the Shove is 100% defendable. You stop it on 1st down and 2nd down and don't let them get into 3rd or 4th and short. That's basic football. They changed the language in the rulebook to allow the pushing (not pulling) of another offensive player in 2005. I can't find a reason for why they made that change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Low Positive said: They changed the language in the rulebook to allow the pushing (not pulling) of another offensive player in 2005. I can't find a reason for why they made that change. Which is what I don't understand. It's really the same action but one is ok and the other isn't. I actually think the pushing may be less safe than a pull as you're pretty much locking a guys back into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Which is what I don't understand. It's really the same action but one is ok and the other isn't. I actually think the pushing may be less safe than a pull as you're pretty much locking a guys back into place. I can't find any justification for the rule change in 2005. What I did find was this article (from Utah of all places) arguing that it's a modern version of the old wedge play from the early days of American football and used to actually kill people: https://www.deseret.com/2023/1/20/23563232/nfl-rule-that-allows-players-to-push-ball-carriers-forward-went-wrong-direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 14 hours ago, ProcessImproverMan said: Goodell and the NFL have a history of changing the game for the worse when a star protected player gets hurt (see Rodgers years ago against the Vikings which influenced the body weight rule). I expect someone to get hurt during this and the rule to change. The Eagles play the Chiefs this week. If a Chiefs player gets hurt, expect rule change. Goodell isn't a rule maker/changer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Ban it ... We need more things forbidden in the league to throw flags for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: I asked the wife if I could try the Tush Push with her. I slept on the couch last night… 🤷♂️ Scoring isn't guaranteed on that play. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 43 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: Ban it ... We need more things forbidden in the league to inconsistently throw flags for. Fixed it for you. 😉😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) This exposes the inconsistency of the NFL. Every year it seems, there is one more thing taken away from the defenses or special teams in the name of "safety". They are now talking about banning a waist tackle next year and a Washington Commanders player got a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty for sacking Mac Jones two weeks ago. Meanwhile on the offensive side, this actual dangerous play that comes from the leather helmet era not only gets overlooked, but gets a cutesy name and a bunch of excited comments from the announcers. There are more injuries now than ever, so these changes made on defense are not about safety, they are about profit and creating the narrative for the juggernaut offenses and who will be the next GOAT at QB. Edited November 19, 2023 by dgrochester55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Word is that the Tush Push was Tom Brady's favorite play...even though he didn't run it in games that's all they would do in practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 It's not just that play, it's pushing the pile in general...RB near goal line and gets pushed in. It is starting to look like rugby. Used to be you couldn't push a player forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I feel like any attempt at helping the runner should be illegal. Thought it used to be. Pushing the scrum is obviously helping the runner. The tush push is an even more obvious attempt. Ban them both. At the very least, the tush push where you actually push the runner forward needs to be outlawed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 17 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Does the NFL make it illegal to push the QB on a sneak, or even go one step further and avoid these rugby style scrums for any ball carrier? Something will become of this to make it illegal in a safety kind of way . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 16 hours ago, peterpan said: Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down Like when putting in golf with you buddies, and you pick up your ball because it's close enough. 15 hours ago, Rc2catch said: I feel like defenses are already so hindered. If defenses cannot push them back because of forward progress I feel it should be the same the other way around. I don’t care about the tush push, Philly don’t even need it. Ban it tomorrow they still probably convert over 90% and it’s not like anyone else is having that much success doing it. I wondered about that, if defenses could do their own "reverse tush push" into the offensive line when they are trying to push tush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) Buffalo was the beneficiary of this call: Edited January 7 by chongli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stosh64 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 17 minutes ago, chongli said: Buffalo was the beneficiary of this call: I remember that game and play. God I miss watching players like Bruce and Talley! It just doesn't feel like the same game now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 There was a good video someone posted a while back that broke down Philly's version tush push. The key to the whole thing was not the push, but rather the three person wedge the left three OL made at the snap, outside guys pinning their shoulder pads to the middle guy and them all moving as one. You could outlaw the push and I don't think it would affect the success of the Philly version hardly at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 In Buffalo it is called the “SHNOW PLOW” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 It'd be so fun to have a lineman pickup a small back (Singletary) and carry him then throw him further when he starts to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, boyst said: It'd be so fun to have a lineman pickup a small back (Singletary) and carry him then throw him further when he starts to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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