DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[clayboy54]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Agree. And I'm especially concerned about McD's input when it comes to hiring a new OC. I tend to doubt that he would want a promising young face for fear that the guy would show him up. 

I think you're incorrect about that. Dorsey is an "I'm the smartest guy in the room" type guy. Remember the temper tantrum? Yes, he is a bright young mind. He is exceptionally smart. But, anyone who thinks they're so much smarter than the rest is bound to fail. You also typically lose the respect of your subordinants too, because you simply do not listen to their input, or put them in the best position to take advantage of their strengths. Instead, you force them into positions that suit you.

 

So, Dorsey tried to show-up McD and the other coaches every day. He also tried to do the same to his offense.

 

Buh bye, Kenny!

[Dunkirk Donski]

2 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

WGR stated McD will have a news conference today.  Any time on that? 

I heard they were waiting on mike shopp to accept the position of defensive personnel accountability assistant to the general manager. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Dunkirk Donski

[npeartisgod]

9 minutes ago, 34-30 said:

So he's throwing it to the other team and fumbling because he isn't free to play how he wants?

EXACTLY! You're making my argument for me...

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The guy has scored more touchdowns than any other quarterback on the planet since 2019.

 

 

He also has thrown more interceptions than any other quarterbacks on the planet since 2019. 

[stevewin]

2 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

4 OC's when you have a franchise qb in place really speaks volumes

To be fair - the first was a warm body by a new HC on a bad team just trying to fill out a staff.  And the 2nd was a success by any measure including developing the franchise QB and left to be a HC.  The third filled the 'continuity narrative and was the preference of the franchise QB

[SDS]

1 minute ago, ExWNYer said:

 

He called a successful blitz and they sacked Wilson, taking the Broncos out of FG range. The problem was that on the very next play he called a Cover Zero blitz and left Taron Johnson on an island by himself with Jerry Jeudy, Denver's fastest WR. All Wilson had to do was toss up the ball, wait for Jeudy to stop his route, and have Johnson crash into him. The refs are calling that INT 99% of the time, weak or not. Asinine play call there by McDummy.

is it your suggestion that the play went as designed and that the get a pass interference call is an actual play in the playbook?

 

[ExWNYer]

3 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

WGR stated McD will have a news conference today.  Any time on that? 

 

My aunt in Jamestown texted me that it was set for 4:00 PM today.

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, 90sBills said:

He also has thrown more interceptions than any other quarterbacks on the planet since 2019. 

 

So what? I'll take that all day long if it also comes with scoring the most touchdowns and winning more games than 30 other teams.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, stevewin said:

To be fair - the first was a warm body by a new HC on a bad team just trying to fill out a staff.  And the 2nd was a success by any measure including developing the franchise QB and left to be a HC.  The third filled the 'continuity narrative and was the preference of the franchise QB

 

We'll have the same problem with having good OCs since they are the first to get hired to HC spots. Which is exactly what happened to Dabol.

[WideNine]

19 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Isn't it up to the OC to help the QB improve his game?

 

That and offensive preparation that shows in execution.

This, more than anything else, may have been the more damning indictment of Dorsey's tenure.

 

If you watch the clips of the plays he calls, on many of them there are options that are open. But Allen is not seeing or taking those so that speaks to Allen's preparation.  Also, the offense as a whole seems dysfunctional. During games when the offense gets into a rhythm of things that are working, Dorsey seems to tinker with the formula for some unknown reason and often breaks whatever rhythm that have established and creating poor down and distance situations.

There is a lot to unpack about what he did well and where he was struggling as an OC.


 

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

is it your suggestion that the play went as designed and that the get a pass interference call is an actual play in the playbook?

 

 

No, but thanks for asking.

[90sBills]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So what? I'll take that all day long if it also comes with scoring the most touchdowns and winning more games than 30 other teams.

So the result is what it is. An inconsistent team led by an inconsistent qb that can’t win a title. 

[HoofHearted]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ha, fair enough. I was focused on the originally bolded parts of "and he kept hammering those same calls every game!  He was incapable of self-evaluating and saying "well this play hasn't worked for the guys on the field""

 

 

All good. Just trying to help this place be objective instead jumping to conclusions and running with them. Can't wait to share this full season run game breakdown as there's a ton of misinformation floating around this place lately in regards to that.

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

He called a successful blitz and they sacked Wilson, taking the Broncos out of FG range. The problem was that on the very next play he called a Cover Zero blitz and left Taron Johnson on an island by himself with Jerry Jeudy, Denver's fastest WR. All Wilson had to do was toss up the ball, wait for Jeudy to stop his route, and have Johnson crash into him. The refs are calling that INT 99% of the time, weak or not. Asinine play call there by McDummy.

It was horrible. Blitz one guy if you really want to blitz there, but they should have played coverage. It was a horrible call. It was the single worst defensive play call that McDermott has made this year.

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

So the result is what it is. An inconsistent team led by an inconsistent qb that can’t win a title. 

 

He consistently scores more touchdowns than anyone. Touchdowns are a good thing. 

 

In a list of 100 things that has to be fixed with this franchise, Josh Allen is not on the list.

[Brandon]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

He also has thrown more interceptions than any other quarterbacks on the planet since 2019. 

 

I really don't care that much about the interceptions as long as he's 2:1 or better on TD passes.   If they're going to call 700 pass plays a year,  the QB is going to throw some interceptions. 

[Billschinatown]

6 minutes ago, Dunkirk Donski said:

I heard they were waiting on mike shopp to accept the position of defensive personnel accountability assistant to the general manager. 

I don't think i'd really quit the Bills-- but if this happened i'm a Ravens fan. lol

[Allen2Moulds]

9 minutes ago, 34-30 said:

So he's throwing it to the other team and fumbling because he isn't free to play how he wants? He has more turnovers than games played.  And we wonder why coaches are trying to hold him back a bit?

JA's style will always be a riskier style that leads to some turnovers.  It's just being exacerbated by the lack of successful drives.  In the past it was ok, because we would either score or turn it over.  Now there's a lot more punts mixed into that equation. Another reason why we're seeing more, is because Allen feels forced to make everything happen on his own.  Like Orlovsky pointed out in his breakdown.  The Broncos we're in zone, and we ran a play that was designed to beat man coverage.  Bad play call on Dorsey.  I honestly think he was clueless, and didn't know how to attack defenses, but I'm also surprised that Josh didn't audible out of that.  As much as I love Allen, I can't absolve him either.  More the reason, that you need a better OC.  A better OC says kid......as soon as you see there running zone, we need to get out of that look......and audible to  xyz, etc.  

 

[MJS]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

He consistently scores more touchdowns than anyone. Touchdowns are a good thing. 

 

In a list of 100 things that has to be fixed with this franchise, Josh Allen is not on the list.

So wrong. Allen is a a big problem right now. Turnovers are the biggest deciders of games. Allen turns it over more than anyone in the league.

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

He consistently scores more touchdowns than anyone. Touchdowns are a good thing. 

 

In a list of 100 things that has to be fixed with this franchise, Josh Allen is not on the list.

Man the length some fans go to excuse our franchise QB from any accountability. No wonder he feels like not working hard in the offseason to improve. In his mind he probably thinks he’s the greatest because most of the fanbase keep saying it. 

[sonyab1974]

Yeah I just read that on Twitter and had to come in here! Wow wow wow! 😲😲

[Iverwig]

2 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

Dorsey firing unfortunately might buy McDermott another year. 

McD was already getting another year with or without Dorsey. Unless he loses every game for the rest of the season Pegula is not going to get rid of him. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

So wrong. Allen is a a big problem right now. Turnovers are the biggest deciders of games. Allen turns it over more than anyone in the league.

 

Allen is a problem right now. Yes. But because he is being mismanaged, being asked to play in a style that doesnt fit him, and is asked to execute plays that the Defense knows are coming.

 

That can all be fixed with a coaching change, not a QB change.

[Best Williams Available]

51 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

The best coaches are the ones who scheme to their players strengths. This wasn’t happening this year.

 

Josh’s stats this year are top of the league.  Shows he is very good despite coaching.  Imagine what could be if we had competent coaching?  
 

Feel like we are wasting an amazing talent.

The parallels to the SD Chargers with Phil Rivers I think are glaring now. Middling team with avg talent and bad coaches but super talented QB who was content to not work and get by on talent alone. Just cruising. In SD with that fanbase maybe it was acceptable but not here.

[Bad Things]

13 minutes ago, Dunkirk Donski said:

If Brady gets the OC job next year due to the carolina connection/familiarity with McBeane, I'm done...Due to his inexperience he may be nothing more than a yes ma'am to the McMeddler. 

Now, are just saying that?

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

So wrong. Allen is a a big problem right now. Turnovers are the biggest deciders of games. Allen turns it over more than anyone in the league.

So wrong. Scores are the biggest decider of games and Allen scores more than just about anyone in the league.  

Silly to focus on the bad when he's the entire offense. 

[Fallser]

It’s about time, they have struggled on offense since we lost daboll. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Fallser

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

I really don't care that much about the interceptions as long as he's 2:1 or better on TD passes.   If they're going to call 700 pass plays a year,  the QB is going to throw some interceptions. 

He isn't at 2:1 right now. His INT% is 3.1 this year, almost as high as his rookie year and one of the highest in the NFL.

 

You want a 3:1 ratio anyway, not 2:1.

[davefan66]

Orlovsky on WGR now.

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

He also has thrown more interceptions than any other quarterbacks on the planet since 2019. 

I've heard some pretty smart QB gurus over the years say that it's not so much the total number of TO's and TD's that a QB has but the TD to TO ratio that counts.  Anything at or above a 2 here is very good.  Allen is above 2 in his career, which includes a tough rookie season, and is right at 2 this season (26 & 13). 

 

 

[harmonkillebrew]

about the only thing good to come from last night. I was actually not that pissed about the loss, as it portended changes. I'm pleasantly surprised McDermott pulled the trigger. Let's hope Brady can right the ship

[BeastMaster]

Just now, MJS said:

So wrong. Allen is a a big problem right now. Turnovers are the biggest deciders of games. Allen turns it over more than anyone in the league.

It really depends on where and when as far as the turnovers go

 

We have seen a number of his INT's like punts where on a 3rd and long he takes a shot...no big deal if it's picked.

 

When he's in his own territory and throws into double coverage, that's a whole other thing

 

Allen is going to have higher turnover numbers because he does so much for this offense. The key is to not turn the ball over in spots where it results in a short field, or when it takes points off the board for the Bills.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

wow

 

edit: the shock wore off. this means mcdermott felt pressure and now has even more upon him. if the rest of the season looks the same then we know it's not just the OC. this is McD playing for his job.

 

mcdermott also not holding himself accountable for benching cook. that was a betraying dorsey and setting him up to fail last night.

What do you mean- benching cook turned him into abeast. It might have been tone of the few things they did right that game 

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

That and offensive preparation that shows in execution.

This, more than anything else, may have been the more damning indictment of Dorsey's tenure.

 

If you watch the clips of the plays he calls, on many of them there are options that are open. But Allen is not seeing or taking those so that speaks to Allen's preparation.  Also, the offense as a whole seems dysfunctional. During games when the offense gets into a rhythm of things that are working, Dorsey seems to tinker with the formula for some unknown reason and often breaks whatever rhythm that have established and creating poor down and distance situations.

There is a lot to unpack about what he did well and where he was struggling as an OC.


 

This is it to me in a nutshell. It's not that Dorey had an awful playbook or didn't call a lot of plays that should've worked, but which Allen (and/or others) did not execute properly. It's that it's DORSEY'S JOB to coach Allen to see those things. It's DORSEY'S JOB to have the players prepared and executing well.

For whatever complaints anyone has about his actual playcalling -- and I have many gripes, from poor understanding of game flow and logical play sequencing to misuse of personnel to abandoning what's working -- it's his actual COACHING of the players, the preparation and execution, that was his major weakness and his downfall.

I defended Dorsey for a long time. But one can only witness so many consecutive weeks of unprepared/sloppy play, missed assignments, two receivers winding up in the same spot on the field, and lack of rhythm before saying "enough is enough". Analytics and EPA and DVOA be damned. Anyone with a set of eyeballs could see it just wasn't working for Dorsey. He failed in too many areas to think things were going to significantly improve. And worst of all, the MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER on the team is regressing and looking lost and reckless and depressed.

This move needed to happen.

 

[MJS]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Allen is a problem right now. Yes. But because he is being mismanaged, being asked to play in a style that doesnt fit him, and is asked to execute plays that the Defense knows are coming.

 

That can all be fixed with a coaching change, not a QB change.

Fine, maybe he is mismanaged. But he is part of the problem himself too. His decision making has been atrocious. His immaturity as a QB presnap is a problem.

[Allen2Moulds]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

So wrong. Allen is a a big problem right now. Turnovers are the biggest deciders of games. Allen turns it over more than anyone in the league.

Right now if all 11 players on offense are not executing at a level 10, the offense is failing.  What we're seeing is the full burden being placed on the players, by the poor offensive coaching.  Players are playing super tight right now, and it showed last night with all the drops and miscues, Allen included. I hope Brady is the fresh of breath air that we needed.  and to think, our SB hopes now lies with a guy named Brady.   

[BigAl2526]

I agree that there have been issues with Dorsey's work this season, but the performance of the offense last evening was on the players.  Specifically, the turnovers were perhaps the most important factor in the Bills' loss, and that is on the players.  Unfortunately, this wasn't a single player issue.  Cook, Davis and Allen all bore responsibility.  You can't bench all of them, and probably not any of them.   They all need to do a better job holding on to the football. 

[90sBills]

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

I really don't care that much about the interceptions as long as he's 2:1 or better on TD passes.   If they're going to call 700 pass plays a year,  the QB is going to throw some interceptions. 

Sure why not. Don’t care about interceptions as he’s throwing them to the other teams almost on a weekly basis. But it’s no big deal. I’m sure there’s no stats at all that supports losing the turnover battle in a game leads to losing games. 

[Brandon]

Just now, MJS said:

He isn't at 2:1 right now. His INT% is 3.1 this year, almost as high as his rookie year and one of the highest in the NFL.

 

You want a 3:1 ratio anyway, not 2:1.

 

I'm not defending his play as of late.  There's more going on than just the interceptions.  I'm just saying that on general principle,  the interceptions are not necessarily an issue as long as the offense is otherwise moving the ball and the QB is producing touchdowns.  Right now,  that's not the case. 

[I'm Spartacus]

I would look to hiring Dan Orlovsky as OC during the off season.