I’m sick of the defensive timeouts…

[AlfaBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are people really upset with our 5-3 Bills?

I hate this thought. Ya they’re 5-3. But do they look like a team on the rise? They were a play away from losing last night. It’s ok to be happy with the win and criticize the bad. The man said, always look to improve 

[HoofHearted]

44 minutes ago, BananaB said:

How come they always regroup and never make a play. 

Is that fact? Or is that just how it feels? Genuinely curious what the numbers show there.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

I hate this thought. Ya they’re 5-3. But do they look like a team on the rise? They were a play away from losing last night. It’s ok to be happy with the win and criticize the bad. The man said, always look to improve 

"But it's a fan message board.  That's what we do."

 

Ok.  You be you.  I'll continue to look at what is going right, share my opinions in an upbeat way, and show some faith in the players and coaches to work on what they need to work on.  This can still be a very special season; the league is wide open.

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are people really upset with our 5-3 Bills?

 

More concerned with their level of play.  For the expectations, this is an underperforming team.  Last night should never have come down to a Hail Mary.  

 

Good thing is, they have 2 months to get it together.  

[eball]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are people really upset with our 5-3 Bills?

 

Hahaha, well played.  I still stand behind my comments in that thread, but I appreciate the humor.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like the timeout before 4th down. However, most of our fans have zero clue about timeour strategy. He was getting questioned in the GDT for the end of first half timeout which he played perfectly. 

 

I also get that the number say go for the 4th downs. But the only reason this got close was stupidity by individual defensive players - namely Johnson and Phillips. The Bills stopped Tampa twice. 

 

I think we did get a bit conservative in the 4th quarter but it wasn't on 4th down calls it was on playcalling. Dorsey stopped attacking. 

 

 

2 of the 3......both 4th down timeouts......were bad.

 

Calling timeout instead of taking the 5 yard delay of game penalty at midfield prior to the punt and then somehow not telling Haack to drop the punt at the 10 yard line was just brain-dead.   Hoping to get a lucky bounce again and pin them at the 2 yard line isn't worth the risk of giving them the ball at the 20.   They had fumbled a prior punt there as well.    Just bad situational football.

 

But yes.........getting rid of Jordan Phillips would be addition by subtraction.    The dumbest player on the field whenever he steps on it.   Damn near drew a 15 yard late hit on a ball carrier early in the second half as well.    

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

Is that fact? Or is that just how it feels? Genuinely curious what the numbers show there.

 

 

Why don't you tell us?   What is the % of successful defensive plays following a defensive timeout versus the normal non-timeout called play in that situation.    There are situations where I think you call a timeout on defense but I think McDermott has turned this into a net negative with his over-use.

 

Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield aren't Tom Brady.   I want to keep the pressure on them with this defensive system that has been in place since 2017,  not give them time to get composed and make the smart play to Mike Evans for a TD.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

 

Nobody ever won the Super Bowl in October, and history is replete with scads of teams that looked "unbeatable" at this juncture and didn't lift the Lombardi.

So What?

 

The platitude you state doesn't come close to answering the posters question.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But yes.........getting rid of Jordan Phillips would be addition by subtraction.    The dumbest player on the field whenever he steps on it.   Damn near drew a 15 yard late hit on a ball carrier early in the second half as well.    

Yes, when that happened I started looking for the flag.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are people really upset with our 5-3 Bills?

I am!

 

After that abomination in New England must be fans should be upset with how the team is playing.  Three weeks in a row with terrible games we were were fortunate it wasn't 4 with that hail mary that no bill even touched, very fortunate we did get a PI on it (yes rarely called on hail marys) or the Bucs didnt catch it. How does a hail mary hit the ground unatouched? 

[FireChans]

30 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Hahaha, well played.  I still stand behind my comments in that thread, but I appreciate the humor.

 

I was just waiting for someone, anyone, to realize I was just snipping your OP for all my responses. 
 

Some folks like @NewEra thought I had changed my ways

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, eball said:

This one aspect of McD’s coaching, in particular, is infuriating.  Last night he did it again, multiple times, and all it does is give the offense a chance to regroup and strategize.  Why aren’t the Bills practicing these situations during the week so they know what to do when the moment arrives?

 

Last night McD had a terrible 4th quarter.

 

 

McDermott's team has issues with basics like tackling with wrapping up, and blocking without holding.

 

We are no where near the level of Reid and Belichick, who regularly quiz their guys with all sorts of weird, random situations, and who practice every situation.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

"But it's a fan message board.  That's what we do."

 

Ok.  You be you.  I'll continue to look at what is going right, share my opinions in an upbeat way, and show some faith in the players and coaches to work on what they need to work on.  This can still be a very special season; the league is wide open.

I mean at least you’re admitting you aren’t looking at it in an objective way 

[MAJBobby]

They are fine when they are actually helpful.  

 

This year it seems to be the Defense is Always out of position when they are used this year. 

 

Still trying to figure out why you give TB time to set up for a FG calling timeout for them 

[HoofHearted]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why don't you tell us?   What is the % of successful defensive plays following a defensive timeout versus the normal non-timeout called play in that situation.    There are situations where I think you call a timeout on defense but I think McDermott has turned this into a net negative with his over-use.

 

Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield aren't Tom Brady.   I want to keep the pressure on them with this defensive system that has been in place since 2017,  not give them time to get composed and make the smart play to Mike Evans for a TD.

I don’t know. That’s why I was asking.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Timeouts are for defense. Gives them a chance to regroup as well and get quick reminders about situational play. Playbooks are limited in these situations offensively so the time is used to remind players about what they’ll get out of the few looks they’ll see.

For real.. I can see the criticism though because there’s no way for a viewer to know what benefit came from taking the timeout.  But we’re def goin overboard with the pitchforks on this one.  I’d kindly request people to turn them on not sneaking on short yardage situations/the goal line lol

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why don't you tell us?   What is the % of successful defensive plays following a defensive timeout versus the normal non-timeout called play in that situation.    There are situations where I think you call a timeout on defense but I think McDermott has turned this into a net negative with his over-use.

 

Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield aren't Tom Brady.   I want to keep the pressure on them with this defensive system that has been in place since 2017,  not give them time to get composed and make the smart play to Mike Evans for a TD.

Idk how smart a play that was to be fair…took an absurd amount of luck to avoid an opi there and catch a ball that donked off a well positioned defenders helmet.  That was not a high percentage play by any means 

 

Mike evans pushes off every play it is absolutely unreal…every time you see him no matter who he is playing.  He shoved poyer down on the Hail Mary too lol 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Einstein]

37 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

2 of the 3......both 4th down timeouts......were bad.

Agreed.

I understand the thinking behind the timeouts. Align your defense, get everyone on the same page, yada yada. 

But that doesnt take into account the flip side.

The opponent is out of timeouts and they are reeling. They just had 3 unsuccessful plays in a row and now they're rushing to figure out the best play for a key 4th down that will keep the game alive and they only have 40 seconds to do it, and the linemen are waiting to hear the play so they can rush to the line and figure out what defensive front they are facing, and the QB still needs time to read the coverage, and the WR's need time to get set up, and the WR's are exhausted from running route after route after route, and their hearts are beating out of their chest, and everyone on offense is a bit frantic because the play clock is ticking fast, and it's crunch time, and then... we let them off the hook with a timeout.

Time and gain.

Instead of all that, the opponent gets to walk to the sideline and take a minute to figure out their best option. Their assistants have time in the booth to analyze what defense we have been running this series. Their linemen get to leisurely walk up to the line and calmly call out the front. Their QB gets to comfortably mosey up to the shotgun position and scan the defensive coverage. The WR's have time to rest and take a breather. Everything is slowed down. 

I hate the defensive timeouts because sure it helps us get aligned but it also takes away a lot of the stress from the offense.

.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Einstein

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

For real.. I can see the criticism though because there’s no way for a viewer to know what benefit came from taking the timeout.  But we’re def goin overboard with the pitchforks on this one.  I’d kindly request people to turn them on not sneaking on short yardage situations/the goal line lol

This probably deserves its own thread too. There’s a big difference between the sneak in the open field and the sneak at the 1 yard line.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

I hate this thought. Ya they’re 5-3. But do they look like a team on the rise? They were a play away from losing last night. It’s ok to be happy with the win and criticize the bad. The man said, always look to improve 

I mean they did lose to a much worse defense the week before and couldn’t do much of anything right haha is that not improvement?  I can’t speak for the whole ‘there were a lot of positives last night’ side but I think it was a pretty firm step in the right direction and I have genuinely no idea if we’ll hang with the better teams.  After the pats game though I was 100% sure we couldn’t.  I’m honestly kind of glad we blew that goal line playcall in a game that we were very likely going to win anyway because hopefully we will not see it again 😂

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Yeah, Dorsey stopped attacking but McDermott calls timeouts at the worst times. Like when he does it to see what the opponent comes out in. That's completely irrelevant because they can easily regroup and come out in something completely different. And then they can pick up the first down anyways. Or if we have a 3rd and 15 and we call a TO to prevent delay of game. 3rd and 15 is already difficult enough to get. Does 3rd and 20 make any real difference? Just take delay of game and save the timeouts in the 2nd half. The first half, isn't as bad because there is a whole other half of football. If I'm head coach, I'm saving my timeouts in the 2nd half for inside the 2 minute warning or as close to it as possible. They are way to crucial to be blowing in the 3rd quarter to see what the other team is coming out in

 

 

He did save his timeouts yesterday until the end of the game.

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like the timeout before 4th down. However, most of our fans have zero clue about timeour strategy. He was getting questioned in the GDT for the end of first half timeout which he played perfectly. 

 

I also get that the number say go for the 4th downs. But the only reason this got close was stupidity by individual defensive players - namely Johnson and Phillips. The Bills stopped Tampa twice. 

 

I think we did get a bit conservative in the 4th quarter but it wasn't on 4th down calls it was on playcalling. Dorsey stopped attacking. 

 

Yes only top tier fans understand timeout strategy.   Like the ones that think Allen is trending into Tannehill territory. 

 

A bit conservative?  You mean like on the final kickoff, coming off a penalty and our returner lays down in the fetal position.  Then you say Dorsey stopped attacking?  That's coming from the strategy of a defensive minded, too conservative head coach. 

[Green Lightning]

In the waning seconds of the game, we had Mayfield for a sack only to find McD called a time out. Instead of a few seconds left, the clock was reset to 16 seconds. He's had several TOs that cost us in the past as well. 

[falgobofu]

They are atrocious and constant, the offense were gassed and scrambling but lets give them a breather. Game management is and has been a problem for a long time, the examples are abundant and at the worst time. The talent is there but the coaching is not, how do we go from barely scoring in the first half of the most recent games to scoring 17 last night? Then nothing in the 4th quarter to finish this garbage team......im not losing faith in the team but the coaching is an issue.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by falgobofu

[Buffalo03]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

He did save his timeouts yesterday until the end of the game.

Yes, I'm referring to overall

[NewEra]

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I was just waiting for someone, anyone, to realize I was just snipping your OP for all my responses. 
 

Some folks like @NewEra thought I had changed my ways

I know you’ll never change your ways indefinitely.  Thought it may have been a momentary lapse 😘 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like the timeout before 4th down. However, most of our fans have zero clue about timeour strategy. He was getting questioned in the GDT for the end of first half timeout which he played perfectly. 

 

I also get that the number say go for the 4th downs. But the only reason this got close was stupidity by individual defensive players - namely Johnson and Phillips. The Bills stopped Tampa twice. 

 

I think we did get a bit conservative in the 4th quarter but it wasn't on 4th down calls it was on playcalling. Dorsey stopped attacking. 

Not true. It got close because McD wouldn't drive the dagger in and let the offense convert on 4&2 or 4&3 and he was chirping in the headset to Dorsey about playing conservatively. He has become way to involved in the offense.

22 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Yes only top tier fans understand timeout strategy.   Like the ones that think Allen is trending into Tannehill territory. 

 

A bit conservative?  You mean like on the final kickoff, coming off a penalty and our returner lays down in the fetal position.  Then you say Dorsey stopped attacking?  That's coming from the strategy of a defensive minded, too conservative head coach. 

Absolutely 100% correct.

[yall]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are people really upset with our 5-3 Bills?

Yes, because we're a few plays away from being 8-0 or 3-5. The team is better than that and it comes down to coaching.

Edited October 27, 2023 by yall

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Not true. It got close because McD wouldn't drive the dagger in and let the offense convert on 4&2 or 4&3 and he was chirping in the headset to Dorsey about playing conservatively. He has become way to involved in the offense.

 

 

You have zero evidence.

[Another Fan]

The timeout before the Bucs touchdown in the 4th quarter was really really stupid

 

Baker and their offense was struggling on the 3 plays before that.  Heck, they only got that prior 1st down because of the face mask penalty.

 

The Bills defense didn’t exactly looked gassed at that point.  I’m confident saying the Bucs don’t convert a 1st down nevertheless touchdown without that timeout called 

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, section122 said:

 

I really want a reporter to do the leg work of how many times it has burned the Bills.  It seems like every time he calls one it does nothing for the defense and everything for the offense! 

Ask Jerry Sullivan he is not doing anything these days.  He will write his report saying that every game this has happened 4 times per half and then view a few game tapes and see that his research matches his column.  This report will be used as source for multiple reporters stories.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You have zero evidence.

Oh I must have missed them going for it on 4th down 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Oh I must have missed them going for it on 4th down 

 

You have zero evidence that McDermott is too involved in the offense. Or telling Dorsey to be conservative. 

 

You are just making ***** up.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You have zero evidence that McDermott is too involved in the offense. Or telling Dorsey to be conservative. 

 

You are just making ***** up.

Well excuse me but there was an interview with Dorsey  this week where he talked about his involvement. And, another on where McD talks about his role. And, most honest observers have noticed a change in the Bills offensive style. You are just full of yourself as usual.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Well excuse me but there was an interview with Dorsey  this week where he talked about his involvement. And, another on where McD talks about his role. And, most honest observers have noticed a change in the Bills offensive style. You are just full of yourself as usual.

 

Nah. I am going on facts you are going on feelings.

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I would love them if they worked. I feel like every time he calls timeout before a play it gives the opposing coach a chance to out-coach him. 

Exactly,  it just allows the opposing OC to check out of the play. Sean thinks he's micro-managing when in actuality he's helping the other side.  So dumb.....

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. I am going on facts you are going on feelings.

The lack of going for it on fourth downs costing the team last night has been a common and accurate discussion point today. All on McDermott.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

The lack of going for it on fourth downs costing the team last night has been a common and accurate discussion point today. All on McDermott.

 

I agree. 4th down decisions are on the Head Coach. That hasn't been disputed. It is the bit you just made up that is in dispute.

[Freak-O]

I don’t get this constant anger. This game was a pretty large step in the right direction. Josh ran, threw to lots of different people, Bass was back on point and what remains of our defense did a good enough job. Everything will never be perfect so you will always have something to complain about if you look hard enough. Doesn’t seem like a good base for a happy life though…

[BillsFanForever19]

It's particularly frustrating when he does it before a play and it gets to the refs late, the play plays out for us, it's a positive play, and then it gets negated because we find out he called Timeout before they play.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree. 4th down decisions are on the Head Coach. That hasn't been disputed. It is the bit you just made up that is in dispute.

You can become more informed by searching for this weeks interviews with the coach's