Giants @ Bills Postgame thread

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

in the modern NFL, where every player on D is trying to punch the ball out more than make a tackle, fighting for yards in a scrum on 1st and 2nd down is not a wise decision.

It is far from the first time Gabe has fumbled doing this too

 

-------------------------

 

My bad feelings about last night are rapidly diminishing. I spent way too many years agonizing that the Pats and chiefs should have lost this or that game, refs screwed the other team, blah blah. I'm going to enjoy it when we do it. It's victory Monday, baby 

Edited October 16, 2023 by arcane

[WideNine]

14 hours ago, stevestojan said:

I’m going to head over to the Giants board just to confirm they agree with the no flag on the last play. I’ll report back. 

 

With all the tugging and tripping the Giants' Flotts got away with in the first half I think the zebras just decided to balance the scales a bit.

 

If those were called then, those Bills drives would not have stalled and that game would likely have never have been close at the end.

 

Seemed like they were letting those go, but we were flagged on a slight tug on a slot route that was oddly singled out when you factor how much was not called.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

With all the tugging and tripping the Giants' Flotts got away with in the first half I think the zebras just decided to balance the scales a bit.

 

If those were called then, those Bills drives would not have stalled and that game would likely have never have been close at the end.

 

Seemed like they were letting those go, but we were flagged on a slight tug on a slot route that was oddly singled out when you factor how much was not called.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The compensating for the Giants awful O-line with a free pass on holding was particularly obnoxious.

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

He has like a .650 W% how can you make an argument that he doesn’t put players in the best positions to succeed? I mean seriously, step back for a second and think. 
 

“Oh, it’s only Josh Allen.” Yeah, Josh is really ***** good.. but we were declared as trying to outsmart math by drafting him because of how raw and unlikely he was to succeed, and yes McDermott was a HUGE part of developing him. 
 

Ok? As we slightly transition away from your comment of “the Bills don’t put players in a position to succeed in the McD era” this game is a nice point of reference. You know, the game where the team that is setting NFL offensive records was held to 20 points and lost by 48? 

If some talking head wants to declare us as winning the September Super Bowl, that’s fine? I’m sure it’s the same talking head that’s been anointing the Dolphins as the division winners for 2 years now.. the same Dolphins team that is 1-3 against Buffalo dating back to last year and 0-3 since their September Super Bowl.

 

But, but, but JGMcD2, the Dolphins played the Bills close in all of those games last year and ALMOST won with Skylar Thompson. Yeah, they also had a full offseason to make adjustments and close the gap and then lost by 28. 

You really have to distinguish the difference between regular season  and post season.

 

McD has been an excellent regular season winner. I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. Heck, he has even gone into Arrowhead with good recent success. 

 

My contention with McD is more post season success. Think Marty S if you well as a reference. I'm not going to go into detail here. It would be like beating a dead horse. The record speaks for himself and you should trust your eyes here. Playoff McD is mediocre, often out coached, and his team has vastly under performed. 

 

In short if you value great regular season records and playoff births then McD is your guy. No need for a change here.

 

If you value playoff success, high win rates, deep progression in the playoffs, and a team representing the AFC McD shouldn't be your guy. He's proven for six years that he can't get it done. Just the facts here. The last two years have been collosal failures that fail directly on him. 

 

Hope that clarifies my viewpoint. 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

I get 3TSD every time I see highlights of the Vikings game last year.

I can't imagine the players seeing that ambulance and not suffering PTSD. 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, Dopey said:

Do you still think Benard sucks? 

No he's been playing lights out. 

 

To be honest, I did think he sucked prior to the season. He showed absolutely nothing. 

 

He's been the surprise of the season for the Bills. I'm happy to be wrong here but I wasn't alone in my thoughts process here. 

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Fair enough if you admit your lack of specificity and overall belief toward the team that it is declining is over the top.

That's more than fair. I am hoping that's the case and I'm dead wrong. Your point is more than valid. 

[Logic]

Least enjoyable Bills win I can remember in a long time.

I don't care if Brian Daboll knew Allen's tendencies and weaknesses, I don't care if Wink Martindale called a great defensive game, I don't care if there's some kind of Tyrod Taylor revenge angle, I don't care if the Bills ARE missing three key defenders.

The fact is, it is not acceptable for a team as talented as the Bills, playing at home, to have THAT difficult a time defeating a 1-4 team missing 3/5 of it's starting o-line and it's starting quarterback, and who is as all around talent deficient as the Giants are. Not acceptable.

I think the players know this. I HOPE the players know this.

It's maddening that a team that is supposedly as high character, hard working, and has such a great culture as these Bills, and who are led by a very disciplined coach in Sean McDermott, can routinely have 3-4 games a year where they just look uninterested, unfocused, low in energy, and make repeated concentration errors and shoot themselves in the foot so much. I have never seen such an elite team need so many "wakeup call" games per season. I have never seen such an elite team make it look so difficult so often.

Yes, I'm obviously extremely relieved that the Bills won. A win is a win is a win. There are no style points. The Bills are 4-2. Win and move on to the next week, that's all that matters. But at some point -- at SOME POINT -- it would be nice to feel like this Bills team has learned its lessons and taken its medicine and to see them start CONSISTENTLY playing up to their sky high potential. 

 

Frustrating game.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

Least enjoyable Bills win I can remember in a long time.

I don't care if Brian Daboll knew Allen's tendencies and weaknesses, I don't care if Wink Martindale called a great defensive game, I don't care if there's some kind of Tyrod Taylor revenge angle, I don't care if the Bills ARE missing three key defenders.

The fact is, it is not acceptable for a team as talented as the Bills, playing at home, to have THAT difficult a time defeating a 1-4 team missing 3/5 of it's starting o-line and it's starting quarterback, and who is as all around talent deficient as the Giants are. Not acceptable.

I think the players know this. I HOPE the players know this.

It's maddening that a team that is supposedly as high character, hard working, and has such a great culture as these Bills, and who are led by a very disciplined coach in Sean McDermott, can routinely have 3-4 games a year where they just look uninterested, unfocused, low in energy, and make repeated concentration errors and shoot themselves in the foot so much. I have never seen such an elite team need so many "wakeup call" games per season. I have never seen such an elite team make it look so difficult so often.

Yes, I'm obviously extremely relieved that the Bills won. A win is a win is a win. There are no style points. The Bills are 4-2. Win and move on to the next week, that's all that matters. But at some point -- at SOME POINT -- it would be nice to feel like this Bills team has learned its lessons and taken its medicine and to see them start CONSISTENTLY playing up to their sky high potential. 

 

Frustrating game.

Great point 

 

Super bowl contenders don't have 3 "wake up call" kind of games through 6 games 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Great point 

 

Super bowl contenders don't have 3 "wake up call" kind of games through 6 games 

Well, then the Chiefs are not contenders either.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Great point 

 

Super bowl contenders don't have 3 "wake up call" kind of games through 6 games 

The Patriots went through plenty of early season struggles in The Brady era

[starrymessenger]

Bills make for an interesting case study: a team that can go out and play like one of the best and next up play like one of the worst. A lot of that can only be coaching.

[JGMcD2]

43 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You really have to distinguish the difference between regular season  and post season.

 

McD has been an excellent regular season winner. I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. Heck, he has even gone into Arrowhead with good recent success. 

 

My contention with McD is more post season success. Think Marty S if you well as a reference. I'm not going to go into detail here. It would be like beating a dead horse. The record speaks for himself and you should trust your eyes here. Playoff McD is mediocre, often out coached, and his team has vastly under performed. 

 

In short if you value great regular season records and playoff births then McD is your guy. No need for a change here.

 

If you value playoff success, high win rates, deep progression in the playoffs, and a team representing the AFC McD shouldn't be your guy. He's proven for six years that he can't get it done. Just the facts here. The last two years have been collosal failures that fail directly on him. 

 

Hope that clarifies my viewpoint. 

It took Marty S 10 seasons to win 4 playoff games. 10 SEASONS! He didn’t string together two playoff wins until his 10th season. Andy Reid only did it three times in 14 seasons in Philadelphia and it took him 6 before he did it in Kansas City.

 

So your guys are Andy Reid (Mahomes era) and Bill Belichick (who McDermott stomped in their one playoff matchup)… McVay or Shanahan (please don’t forget his role in the Falcons Super Bowl implosion) ?

 

I have a hard time including Zac Taylor. Not touching John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin or Matt LaFleur because I’m not convinced they’re able to elevate like you’re asking for. Who else? 

 

That’s what, 4 guys who have (objectively) been able to do it do it better than Sean? The likelihood of finding them is slim, that’s why those guys usually stick in once place for a long time. 

 

The only guy who may become available is Belichick and he’d want to control the entire show… which isn’t going too well right now. Reid and Shanahan will be there as long as they’d like and McVay will go from the Rams sideline to the booth. 

What first year coaching candidates are out there that can go and elevate this team? What about retreads? Who is out there that has shown the ability to get a team over the top? 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

19 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Bills make for an interesting case study: a team that can go out and play like one of the best and next up play like one of the worst. A lot of that can only be coaching.

they seem to play up and down to their opponents. You could tell the moment that Miami game started how locked in they were. 

[Bruffalo]

I don't know what's going on with the offense, but they really need to find some more identity other than "Screw, Diggs down there somewhere" or "First down, time for another shotgun draw run up the middle".  Allen feels like he's being held back.  We have half the number of Allen rushes as we did last season, and teams are adjusting to it. 

 

Dorsey is the most schizophrenic playcaller I might have ever seen.  Guy calls a fantastic game against Miami, and then also calls this slop. Dominating in the run during the first and then we just go away from it (and then go back to it, and surprise, it works) . I don't know what's going on there.  Be better. 

 

Allen doesn't seem to trust anybody but Diggs and it shows. It's too bad too.  I'm not a Shakir truther or anything, but Harty and Shakir had a single target and made big plays, partially because they had good matchups.  You'd like to see more of that. 

[Sestak4ever]

Tyrod Taylor’s accuracy in this game was better than I’ve ever seen him play. He was dropping dimes on some of those deep throws that we never saw him do in a Bills uniform.

[No_Matter_What]

15 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

W. That’s all that matters this early in the season. Now let me complain…

 

I called this in the lead-up thread. This was a perfect Billsy game playing down to the competition. When do we ever blow the doors off a team when every single angle points to a Bills blow out? Never.

 

#1 problem is Dorsey. I held my tongue last year, I defended him in the first 3 games because his game plans were good, the last 3 games he’s absolutely sucked. It’s like he spends all off season coming up with a plan, teams adjust after a few games and his play sheet becomes 90% “Josh make a play”

 

This offense has NO identity. It looks like sandlot football where guys just call plays in the huddle. Zero set up, zero flow. It’s an abomination not to start running the ball until the second quarter. No one gets open besides Diggs and the play calling isn’t helping matters much. Too much shotgun, and that shotgun run on the goal line is a fireable offense.

 

I really think they’ve coached the dog out of Josh. There were at least 3 first downs Josh could have easily run and slid for where he hesitated and threw short or incomplete. This is a big problem. I agree we want him to take fewer hits but it’s obvious he’s thinking too much when there’s tons of green in front of him for easy yards. We need those legs in the right situations and I think Dorsey/McD have done him and the team a disservice by taking that away.

 

Love the W. Hope they figure it out on offense. Lots of games left to be played.

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of your post especially the Allen running part, but I heavily disagree with the first bolded and am confused about the second one.

 

Nobody in the league blows out opponents more often and more than the Bills. Last 3 years we have like +600 point differential and 2nd best Chiefs are at +400 or so. How can you say that we never blow out competition?

 

To the second bolded, did you confuse some games or are you really saying that Dorsey "absolutely sucked" in Dolphins game?

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Sestak4ever said:

Tyrod Taylor’s accuracy in this game was better than I’ve ever seen him play. He was dropping dimes on some of those deep throws that we never saw him do in a Bills uniform.

Tyrod always threw a pretty nine ball down the sidelines 

 

Where he struggles... Was where he struggled again yesterday... Can't punch it in in the redzone...

 

But he always threw a pretty pass down the sideline

 

 

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Tyrod always threw a pretty nine ball down the sidelines 

 

Where he struggles... Was where he struggled again yesterday... Can't punch it in in the redzone...

 

But he always threw a pretty pass down the sideline

 

 

yep. When he wanted to. Which was like… once a game on average for us.  Lol

[Best Williams Available]

https://x.com/nickveronica/status/1713769475286122648?s=46&t=HVk4dpSAfBevaXE17rCx3A
 

interesting

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I can't imagine the players seeing that ambulance and not suffering PTSD. 

I thought he meant 3 STD's

[syhuang]

 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, RiotAct said:

yep. When he wanted to. Which was like… once a game on average for us.  Lol

It's not a high probability pass in the NFL

 

And we all know tyrod Taylor is not much of a risk taker... He's pretty conservative

 

So yeah he would only thrown it a few times a game... But he had very good touch on it here 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Where he struggles... Was where he struggled again yesterday... Can't punch it in in the redzone...

 

Oh man, that is what last night reminded me of....the guy could not finish...could never make the play to win the game....it happened again last night.  A little too close for my liking but it was Tyrodesque

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

https://x.com/nickveronica/status/1713769475286122648?s=46&t=HVk4dpSAfBevaXE17rCx3A
 

interesting

Winning in spite of themselves.

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

uh oh.

[billsfan89]

13 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

uh oh.

 

Got to think he is trying to get the Pats to waste some time preparing for Kyle Allen when in reality he knows Josh is going to play. That's my optimistic take. 

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

uh oh.

 

You watched the whole game, right? He's fine.

[Warcodered]

25 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

https://x.com/nickveronica/status/1713769475286122648?s=46&t=HVk4dpSAfBevaXE17rCx3A
 

interesting

23 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

Yeah Josh maybe won't play McDermott.....

[WideNine]

12 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Got to think he is trying to get the Pats to waste some time preparing for Kyle Allen when in reality he knows Josh is going to play. That's my optimistic take. 

 

So... preparing to stop the run?

 

 

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It took Marty S 10 seasons to win 4 playoff games. 10 SEASONS! He didn’t string together two playoff wins until his 10th season. Andy Reid only did it three times in 14 seasons in Philadelphia and it took him 6 before he did it in Kansas City.

 

So your guys are Andy Reid (Mahomes era) and Bill Belichick (who McDermott stomped in their one playoff matchup)… McVay or Shanahan (please don’t forget his role in the Falcons Super Bowl implosion) ?

 

I have a hard time including Zac Taylor. Not touching John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin or Matt LaFleur because I’m not convinced they’re able to elevate like you’re asking for. Who else? 

 

That’s what, 4 guys who have (objectively) been able to do it do it better than Sean? The likelihood of finding them is slim, that’s why those guys usually stick in once place for a long time. 

 

The only guy who may become available is Belichick and he’d want to control the entire show… which isn’t going too well right now. Reid and Shanahan will be there as long as they’d like and McVay will go from the Rams sideline to the booth. 

What first year coaching candidates are out there that can go and elevate this team? What about retreads? Who is out there that has shown the ability to get a team over the top? 

 

I get that and it comes with validity. However, others past don't really equate to what McD can, can't, and will do. It's all pure speculation with differing variables. 

 

Some important factors to consider. McD has Josh Allen in his prime. He arguably the top three QBs in the game. The other too QBs are Mahomes and Burrow. Low and behold they both have made SB appearances and one has multiple rings. Meanwhile, Allen has watched them at home while his current coach gives away games, had his team flat and unprepared. Losing is one thing giving games away, being out coached, not being prepared, etc...is just flat out unacceptable. The saving grace that really makes things less transparent is his regular season records. It's basically second to none and very impressive. Hard to let such a good thing go. 

 

However, sometimes it's prudent to move on to achieve a higher goal. Not an easy decision at all with McD. I'd say most fans are satisfied with his success even if his failures in the playoffs are obvious. In effect, he gets a free pass or at least the benefit of the doubt. A redo to get things right. It's much easier to stay the course here. 

 

I'd much prefer the Bills go in a different direction. I think the McD reign has played it's course. A great ride but it's time to trade in the reliable Camry for the innovative Tesla. Sure it's track record is more unknown then the Camry. 

 

I'd also note that Philly made a big move hiring a young innovative coach that paid huge dividends immediately. If nothing else it shows it can be done. 

 

This season looks quite a bit like the others. The Bills are a top 5 team in the AFC will a likelihood of making the playoffs. A likelihood of another disappointing playoff exit due to several variables which includes coaching and scheme. 

 

Lastly, I'd like to point out the change of regimes shouldn't be discouraged ir not considered. As long as Allen remains on the team a new coach basically just has to ride that horse. However, all horse bettors know the importance of a good to great jockey. Sometimes a jockey change is exactly what the horse needs. I'd say this analogy is 109% applicable here. 

 

[MasterStrategist]

32 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

https://x.com/nickveronica/status/1713769475286122648?s=46&t=HVk4dpSAfBevaXE17rCx3A
 

interesting

Add in 2 missed FGs and yeah it was a very improbable/ugly win. 

 

Looks the same in the record tho, so will take it.

 

Just need to get the offense fixed, asap.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

Well, then the Chiefs are not contenders either.

 

The Chiefs are also definitely not playing as well this year as in years past either.

[Negan]

Guys I don't see this offense ever getting fixed with Dorsey calling the shots.

 

Truth hurts sometimes 😭

[Scott7975]

I'd like to know what was up with Bass.  McD passed on a 55 yard FG early with Bassomatic.  Bass proceeds to miss two of them later.  There was no wind in the game and we were home.

[Bockeye]

1 hour ago, Bruffalo said:

I don't know what's going on with the offense, but they really need to find some more identity other than "Screw, Diggs down there somewhere" or "First down, time for another shotgun draw run up the middle".  Allen feels like he's being held back.  We have half the number of Allen rushes as we did last season, and teams are adjusting to it. 

 

Dorsey is the most schizophrenic playcaller I might have ever seen.  Guy calls a fantastic game against Miami, and then also calls this slop. Dominating in the run during the first and then we just go away from it (and then go back to it, and surprise, it works) . I don't know what's going on there.  Be better. 

 

Allen doesn't seem to trust anybody but Diggs and it shows. It's too bad too.  I'm not a Shakir truther or anything, but Harty and Shakir had a single target and made big plays, partially because they had good matchups.  You'd like to see more of that. 

Very apt description Bruffalo. 
 

So many plays look broken and turn into backyard “just get open” scrambles. I admittedly don’t watch many other games, but is this the case with most teams - tons of improvising?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'd like to know what was up with Bass.  McD passed on a 55 yard FG early with Bassomatic.  Bass proceeds to miss two of them later.  There was no wind in the game and we were home.

Bass is great but kickers have bad days ...

 

Always been more money inside 45.. then from 53+ where he has a slight habit of pushing the Ball ... Which he did twice 

 

He's out there kicking field goals well before the game... McDermott knows what his line is... Some games pregame, 53 yards he's 8 of 10 warmups..  hes dialed in

 

If he's only 5-10 then his range might be 52-53 yards for the day ... Sure he can kick it a lot further but his accuracy isn't dialed in

[TheyCallMeAndy]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'd like to know what was up with Bass.  McD passed on a 55 yard FG early with Bassomatic.  Bass proceeds to miss two of them later.  There was no wind in the game and we were home.

50+ is a coin toss for any NFL kicker. 

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Very apt description Bruffalo. 
 

So many plays look broken and turn into backyard “just get open” scrambles. I admittedly don’t watch many other games, but is this the case with most teams - tons of improvising?

No, because with most QBs if you take away what was called, the play is more or less over. That's what makes Allen and Mahomes special. They can keep a play alive even with everything breaks down. I do wish that the BIlls could get more of their "on-schedule" plays to work.

[Mango]

4 hours ago, freddyjj said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401131047

 

Tyreek in 2020 Season Super Bowl.  16 targets, 9 catches > 100 Yds and no TDs.  Chiefs won 31-20.

 

 

 

Yes, a game. My point is that it’s not a good week in and week out philosophy. 
 

Diggs already pushed some history in single season target numbers last year. Feeding one guy all the balls all the time isn’t a good offensive plan.

 

Worth noting that Tyreek only had 58 catches over 12 games in 2019. Which extrapolates to 77 catches over a 16 week season. The Chiefs offense didn’t revolve around getting Tyreek the ball on 51% of pass plays the way it seems like the Bills offense does at times.