Milano and Daquan to IR. Klein signed.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

rapp is a better tackler and angle pursuer than any LB on our active team.

 

we aren't winning the superbowl. this is a 4-6 loss team and not build for the playoffs.

having williams play in downs and in mixed coverage is worthwhile, same with spector. but both of them are likely lifetime special teamers

 

klein played sam in carolina with mcdermott, sam and will in new orleans, mike and will in buffalo.

I’m not sure what ‘not built for the playoffs’ means in this context…who is the afc playoff team that looks like the total package and doesn’t have exploitable weaknesses on the defensive side?  
 

Miami certainly does, KC the defense has improved at the expense of the offense, cincy hasn’t looked the same since Jessie bates left who is playing great in Atlanta, the chargers defense is historically terrible. 
 

maybe if the browns came out of the north they could give us some trouble but I’m not seeing a lot of other teams that would.

Super Bowl you’ve gotta assume will be the niners or eagles which is not a great matchup but it’s a single game at that point and anything can happen. If we were in the nfc I’d agree with you cuz there’s a good chance you’re seeing two of Dallas/philly/SF in a playoff run then whoever you get in the superbowl 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Klein actually played his best football for us replacing Milano. People think it was when he replaced Edmund’s, it was actually when he replaced Milano. Milano missed a lot of time in 2020.

Yes, but he was 3 years younger.  He was slow to begin with and I can’t imagine he is any faster now.  There is a reason they let him go.  McD has a real puzzle to figure out here in terms of run support from that position vs pass coverage.  Klein may be the best option, but let’s not kid ourselves - this is a big problem - especially with Jones gone as well.  I will be interested to see how McD approaches this.  At least they do not have a passing game to worry about against the Giants.  

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’m not sure what ‘not built for the playoffs’ means in this context…who is the afc playoff team that looks like the total package and doesn’t have exploitable weaknesses on the defensive side?  
 

Miami certainly does, KC the defense has improved at the expense of the offense, cincy hasn’t looked the same since Jessie bates left who is playing great in Atlanta, the chargers defense is historically terrible. 
 

maybe if the browns came out of the north they could give us some trouble but I’m not seeing a lot of other teams that would.

Super Bowl you’ve gotta assume will be the niners or eagles which is not a great matchup but it’s a single game at that point and anything can happen. If we were in the nfc I’d agree with you cuz there’s a good chance you’re seeing two of Dallas/philly/SF in a playoff run then whoever you get in the superbowl 

I agree with our current AFC lineup we would/could be ok but historically we aren't. And this maybe the weakest afc in recent times. Anything is possible. 

[RobbRiddick]

Damn it, I was hoping @Miyagi-Do Karatewas going to save the day at the last second

 

[Success]

22 minutes ago, boyst said:

 

see, and you're not wrong. i 100% agree. we could, we could definitely do so because we have a lot of great players but as a team we are not what the Eagles were last year, what the Bengals were 2 years ago, what the Chiefs were the last few years =  complimentary units.

 

we could run the table, could win lots of big games but we can do that and still be fatally flawed. we could limp by with terrible wounds and survive to the superbowl and pull that off... but we still have gaping weaknesses.  parity being what it is then we have to simply wait and see if we can outlast other teams with our wounds.

 

hopefully, it's just a flesh wound!

 

I don't think we're in too much disagreement - but I think some of the characterizations like "fatally flawed" and "gaping weaknesses" are too extreme.  Anytime a team loses a great player it leaves a hole, but our defense is so good that we basically just need the replacement to be solid.  I think Williams can be that, w/ Klein maybe filling in on run downs.  

 

Like I said - I don't see a team in the AFC that's better, even today.  I think we're right on par w/ the top teams, who I consider to be the Chiefs and Dolphins.  I also think this Bills team is less flawed, and has fewer weaknesses, than any team in the JA era.  Losing Milano hurts, but I think there has been a pretty strong overreaction to how it affects our chances to contend for a title this year.

 

[boyst]

Just now, Success said:

 

I don't think we're in too much disagreement - but I think some of the characterizations like "fatally flawed" and "gaping weaknesses" are too extreme.  Anytime a team loses a great player it leaves a hole, but our defense is so good that we basically just need the replacement to be solid.  I think Williams can be that, w/ Klein maybe filling in on run downs.  

 

Like I said - I don't see a team in the AFC that's better, even today.  I think we're right on par w/ the top teams, who I consider to be the Chiefs and Dolphins.  I also think this Bills team is less flawed, and has fewer weaknesses, than any team in the JA era.  Losing Milano hurts, but I think there has been a pretty strong overreaction to how it affects our chances to contend for a title this year.

 

Most teams do not run as complex and specific defense as we do. Most have somet sort of level where the average FA could contribute. We do not have that defense of the next guy up being as capable because of how complex we are.  And it's a fatal flaw. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

Can we place Kaiir Elam on IR ?

He looks mighty sick to me....

You might just feel sick from watching the 23rd overall pickplay?

[Rigotz]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

and fwiw i'm not 100% sold on bernard right now. i think he is a scheme player fitting well to McD's defense and time will tell. he is better than i thought by a mile but i cannot believe the team trusted him to start. they partially got lucky. call it the Tom Brady outcome - the Patriots got lucky with him, too.

 

This is a really weird take.

 

The Bills made a good pick in Bernard, which you hated at the time... and so now, because he's good, he's simply a "scheme fit" and they "got lucky" ...

 

hmm...

[sunshynman]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

@sunshynman care to elaborate on your emotional response?

You were a bit melodramatic with your no longer a SB team. We peaked to early last year, and we were looking that way again this year. So now we get to get straight in time for the playoffs. We will be firing on all cylinders by then. We can beat any team if our offense executes. And Dorsey adjusts when the run is being stuffed.  So, I don't see D injuries as the windows closing. Now if (god does hate us) and Allen misses significant time. Then I'll be right there with you!

 

I agree with your view on Klien. Let the rookies learn, let him teach. Bring him in on run downs. 

[boyst]

15 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

You were a bit melodramatic with your no longer a SB team. We peaked to early last year, and we were looking that way again this year. So now we get to get straight in time for the playoffs. We will be firing on all cylinders by then. We can beat any team if our offense executes. And Dorsey adjusts when the run is being stuffed.  So, I don't see D injuries as the windows closing. Now if (god does hate us) and Allen misses significant time. Then I'll be right there with you!

 

I agree with your view on Klien. Let the rookies learn, let him teach. Bring him in on run downs. 

i am not being meldramatic because of the injuries. i am concerned with all things being put together.

 

our coaches let Elam keep playing despite being ineffective. he looked unprepared, uncoached, and confused. i go back to last year in his relief.  for 3 or 4 games he played very good at the least.

 

our coaches thought williams would be suitable to come in and replace milano. it was obvious very quickly that he was not. he, like elam, was beched in the 2nd half. one of the only adjustments made.

 

i get it, it's hard to win with backups playing. but it's just another excuse for McDermott this year that i don't want to hear.

 

thank you for reply, sincerely. i sought you out because you generally have good takes and just getting the emogies was no fun without hearing your thoughts.

21 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

This is a really weird take.

 

The Bills made a good pick in Bernard, which you hated at the time... and so now, because he's good, he's simply a "scheme fit" and they "got lucky" ...

 

hmm...

i didn't hate bernard as a player. i didn't like an mlb as the pick, though

 

i'm not sold on him just because of 5 games, either.

 

and he is a good scheme fit thus far and we got lucky. we haven't correctly evaluated most of our LB's.

 

2018 Edmunds

2019 Vosean Joseph - (5)

2022 Bernard (3), Spector (7)

2023 Williams (3)

 

our free agents havent' been great either.

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

i am not being meldramatic because of the injuries. i am concerned with all things being put together.

 

our coaches let Elam keep playing despite being ineffective. he looked unprepared, uncoached, and confused. i go back to last year in his relief.  for 3 or 4 games he played very good at the least.

 

our coaches thought williams would be suitable to come in and replace milano. it was obvious very quickly that he was not. he, like elam, was beched in the 2nd half. one of the only adjustments made.

 

i get it, it's hard to win with backups playing. but it's just another excuse for McDermott this year that i don't want to hear.

 

thank you for reply, sincerely. i sought you out because you generally have good takes and just getting the emogies was no fun without hearing your thoughts.

 

I'm not going to make proclamations about Elam and Williams when Elam has been inactive for 4 weeks and then gets put on an island against Calvin Ridley over in London.  Same for Dorian Williams, thrown into action, in London.

 

That entire game, from start to finish, from jump.. travel included.. was a dumpster fire. 

 

Let me see what they look like over these next few weeks.  

 

To claim we can't win a Super Bowl when our Defense still consists of Von, Rousseau, Oliver, Floyd and Epenesa on the DL is a take that I refuse to buy into.  We had a chance to be 49ers East.  That isn't the case now.. but you can't convince me that the Chiefs, Bengals, Dolphins, Ravens etc., have more talent on their Defenses than we do.  

 

Therefore, to conclude we are no longer a Super Bowl team, imo, means you don't have faith in our Offense.  Because if our Offense wasn't so high variance and inconsistent, we'd be 5-0 and feeling confident we can overcome these injuries. 

 

And honestly, I wouldn't argue with that.  I am extremely frustrated with our Offense..  and they are nowhere near consistent enough to get the 1 seed, let alone give me the confidence that they can perform at a high level for consecutive games needed to get to the Super Bowl.    Thankfully, they are the healthy side, and that can certainly change as we progress further into the season. 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

It’s like people don’t remember two flawed 4 seeds playing in the SB just two seasons ago. The Bengals were a 7-loss team that got hot and found some luck down the stretch. They were a drive away from a Lombardi. Heck, the Bills were an injury-riddled 6-loss team that was 13 seconds away from hosting the AFC championship game. 

 

That was missing White and had a vastly inferior D AND O line.   
 

Our corners with a healthy Benford are arguably significantly better than the group from that game.  

Edited October 11, 2023 by Big Blitz

[DrDawkinstein]

 

🙏

 

[blacklabel]

Klein might not be too bad if they find a way to use him like they did in 2020. He had some good moments then. Wasn't relied on for a ton of snaps but they found ways to maximize his strengths and got him in there on the right snaps. 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Klein is underrated as I've said before. Yes, he has limitations....but he is a very physical player and violent blitzer 
 

https://x.com/SalSports/status/1712098476077564090?s=20

 

Most players are square pegs and defenses need to be adjusted when players are substituted.

When Klein was originally substituted defense remained the same until Frazier adjusted it which resulted in Klein getting AFC Defense Player of the week award. 

Frazier said "he's gotten more comfortable in our system" but the system changed but in beginning it was a straight substitution.

 

A DC needs to adjust his defense to fit the experience and skills of personnel. 

Wade Phillips was a great DC and the perfect example - there were multiple injuries and he changed defense formation between weeks to adjust for personnel.

[Success]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

🙏

 

 

That's actually extremely encouraging.  It sounds like there is NOT any significant ligament damage for Milano, and that the recovery is for the fracture. 

 

If we get him back for the playoffs - what a boost that would be for the team & our chances.

 

[Franco_92]

19 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's actually extremely encouraging.  It sounds like there is NOT any significant ligament damage for Milano, and that the recovery is for the fracture. 

 

If we get him back for the playoffs - what a boost that would be for the team & our chances.

 

I wonder what the chances are he passed initial ACL tests but the surgery will reveal damage like with Von. 

[freddyjj]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

i would put him in at WLB, Rapp at SLB, Bernard at SLB.

Huh?   Two strong side linebackers and Klein at WILL LB.  Since when do Bills play a 4-3 as base D?  
 

and where does Taron Johnson figure in your new scheme?
 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, FLFan said:

Yes, but he was 3 years younger.  He was slow to begin with and I can’t imagine he is any faster now.  There is a reason they let him go.  McD has a real puzzle to figure out here in terms of run support from that position vs pass coverage.  Klein may be the best option, but let’s not kid ourselves - this is a big problem - especially with Jones gone as well.  I will be interested to see how McD approaches this.  At least they do not have a passing game to worry about against the Giants.  

Color me intrigued how McD adjusts

[Westside]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

You can’t put Dodson in for Milano. We will get lit up. If you are going to tell me it’s Dorian Williams and Bernard in there with Bedford and Dane Jackson…it’s bad but it’s not really that bad. There’s a small chance we might even be dangerous on defense with the youthful legs. We have some guys that give you a chance to be a still very high level defense. You can bogg it down with old slow legs out there. Let 42 learn on the fly here and run around and hammer some people.

We have a better chance of them getting lit up by a good offense. I have little faith in Dane Jackson as the starting cb. 
A Lb crew of Bernard and Dodson scared no one. They will get lit up. I didn’t like our backup CB going into this season and I don’t have much expectations of them stopping any good WR. 

[boyst]

15 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Huh?   Two strong side linebackers and Klein at WILL LB.  Since when do Bills play a 4-3 as base D?  
 

and where does Taron Johnson figure in your new scheme?
 

i meant bernard at mlb.

 

just because rapp is in at SLB doesn't mean he is playing SLB.

 

3-3-5 in a creative spin

 

basically rapp becomes the big nickel

[MasterStrategist]

12 minutes ago, boyst said:

i meant bernard at mlb.

 

just because rapp is in at SLB doesn't mean he is playing SLB.

 

3-3-5 in a creative spin

 

basically rapp becomes the big nickel

Why are we talking about switching our core defensive alignment/philosophy all of a sudden?

 

Because Milano/Jones went down, just means next man up.

 

They've spent countless hours/months installing the defense, they aren't going to switch it now.  Better chance we make a trade, if they think we need someone else to execute

[boyst]

16 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Why are we talking about switching our core defensive alignment/philosophy all of a sudden?

 

Because Milano/Jones went down, just means next man up.

 

They've spent countless hours/months installing the defense, they aren't going to switch it now.  Better chance we make a trade, if they think we need someone else to execute

A good coach isn't going to keep running the same scheme and principles with lesser or other talent.

 

Look at Seattle with Pete Carrol, wade Phillips, belichick, countless good defensive coordinators tweak their gameplans based on the players.

 

No one in the NFL can fill milanos shoes. Especially not some rookie from Villanova.

[Westside]

18 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Why are we talking about switching our core defensive alignment/philosophy all of a sudden?

 

Because Milano/Jones went down, just means next man up.

 

They've spent countless hours/months installing the defense, they aren't going to switch it now.  Better chance we make a trade, if they think we need someone else to execute

We make a trade but will Mcd play them? Or keep them on the inactive list?

[Unforgiven]

BIG splash

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I wonder what the chances are he passed initial ACL tests but the surgery will reveal damage like with Von. 

 

I don’t think McD would have said that especially with what happened with Von.  
 

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I don’t think McD would have said that especially with what happened with Von.  
 

And I do remember more cautionary language explicitly indicating they weren't out of the ACL woods yet with Von too, so hopefully the lack of that means we are in the clear

[Big Blitz]

Just now, arcane said:

And I do remember more cautionary language explicitly indicating they weren't out of the ACL woods yet with Von too, so hopefully the lack of that means we are in the clear

 

I agree I’m taking McDs words as there isn’t an ACL tear.  
 

I don’t need him to be an eternal optimist right now bc he thinks the fan base need it or something and then later say if they find out he did “well we were holding out hope there.” 
 

If they don’t know yet that should have been his answer “we don’t know yet.”  

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

And I do remember more cautionary language explicitly indicating they weren't out of the ACL woods yet with Von too, so hopefully the lack of that means we are in the clear

 

My Sunday was pretty bad.  My Wednesday isn't as bad...not great but could be worse.

If we can get both of them back by early January, I'm happier than when Forrest saw Lt. Dan sitting on the dock and told him he would be his shrimp boat captain.

[MasterStrategist]

42 minutes ago, boyst said:

A good coach isn't going to keep running the same scheme and principles with lesser or other talent.

 

Look at Seattle with Pete Carrol, wade Phillips, belichick, countless good defensive coordinators tweak their gameplans based on the players.

 

No one in the NFL can fill milanos shoes. Especially not some rookie from Villanova.

Who is the rookie from Villanova? You mean Dorian (Tulane?).

 

Honestly, this isn't like its the first time Milano has missed games.  And we've been hit with injuries to the secondary/DL before too.  Coach will find ways to adjust within his system, we aren't changing to a 3-3-5 for the sake of changing.

 

Groot is likely back this week, as well as Shaq.  We got hit with injuries early last game, then gassed (bc of this + our offense not sustaining any drives). 

 

Defense will be OK...offense, time for it to put up "consistent" results.

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Klein actually played his best football for us replacing Milano. People think it was when he replaced Edmund’s, it was actually when he replaced Milano. Milano missed a lot of time in 2020.

Yes, Klein was a strong pass rusher out of that position 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

A good coach isn't going to keep running the same scheme and principles with lesser or other talent.

 

Look at Seattle with Pete Carrol, wade Phillips, belichick, countless good defensive coordinators tweak their gameplans based on the players.

 

No one in the NFL can fill milanos shoes. Especially not some rookie from Villanova.

You mean Tulane

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

i meant bernard at mlb.

 

just because rapp is in at SLB doesn't mean he is playing SLB.

 

3-3-5 in a creative spin

 

basically rapp becomes the big nickel

 

Why do I have the feeling you milk your cows too long each time?

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

i meant bernard at mlb.

 

just because rapp is in at SLB doesn't mean he is playing SLB.

 

3-3-5 in a creative spin

 

basically rapp becomes the big nickel

Don't see it happening.  

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why do I have the feeling you milk your cows too long each time?

Don't kink shame me😗

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I wonder how much of this is due to Breece Halls big run and Archane. They held jacobs to like 5 yards 

 

Etienne ripped us a new one all game.  Here's the thing, those big plays happen because we're trying to make big-plays on D but guess incorrectly.  

 

 

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, RiotAct said:

the Bucs are a pretty good team overall. and will likely give us some trouble I’m thinking.

 

Yeah, maybe.  Mayfield's only played us once but he had a great game and won.  

 

I just looked, Tampa seems to be struggling to put up points, but their "no name" D seems to be playing well.  

 

 

[Success]

The Jags game was such a weird game.  I'm betting our offense is much more like the Miami game than the Jags game.

 

And that offense is so much better than the vast majority of teams in the AFC. Or NFC, for that matter.

 

I think this team has a big run coming.  We'll be having different conversations in a month or so (and waiting for updates on Jones & Milano).

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, boyst said:

funny how quickly people forget last year

 

9 hours ago, boyst said:

rapp is a better tackler and angle pursuer than any LB on our active team.

 

we aren't winning the superbowl. this is a 4-6 loss team and not build for the playoffs.

having williams play in downs and in mixed coverage is worthwhile, same with spector. but both of them are likely lifetime special teamers

 

klein played sam in carolina with mcdermott, sam and will in new orleans, mike and will in buffalo.

Funny how people forget 2 weeks ago.  
 

We got hosed by the NFL in their scheduling and it cost us 2 of our best players….. but there’s isn’t one team in the AFC that looks like a Super Bowl champion.  Before the injuries, we were playing better than anyone.  You should refrain from making finalities in October.  Lots can change.  
 

Many 4-6 loss teams have won the Super Bowl.  26 to be exact 

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, Success said:

 

That's actually extremely encouraging.  It sounds like there is NOT any significant ligament damage for Milano, and that the recovery is for the fracture. 

 

If we get him back for the playoffs - what a boost that would be for the team & our chances.

 

I just read where if Milano rehabs like he lift weight, he could be back by DECEMBER! 🙏