An open letter to the Jordan Poyer doubters

[Simon]

Dear Jordan Poyer doubters,

Bite me.

 

     Yours truly,

                         Simon

[Simon]

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

Anyhoo, here is what I think is going on.

Last year I think Mr Poyer learned a very hard (and very expensive) lesson about how to manage his health throughout a long season.

At the very beginning of last year he was absolutely trying to murder any viable target that came within 10yrds of him, repeatedly throwing his body at full speed and exposed, awkward angles at large armored athletes on practically every series.

Needless to say, this is not a strategy that is conducive to playing 16 football games in a row. And sure enough by later in the year, he was a shell of himself being held together by duct tape and bailing wire.

I think what we're seeing right now is a smarter, more veteran Poyer trying to play a much more controlled game, preserve his health and assure that when things get really important later in the year that he will be ready to go at full speed.

Is it a good idea? I think it is, both for Poyer and for the Bills. It may lead to fewer kill shots and fewer turnovers in the short term, but if it leads to a healthy Poyer in the playoffs, it will have been well worth it.

I fully expect to see a transition at some point in December where that heedless assassin begins to re-emerge in games against playoff worthy rivals; and I hope he does it wisely enough that when elimination games start he can step on the field and once again start trying to murder everybody in a different colored shirt.

[RiotAct]

interesting thought - could very well be!  

 

He should be a go for the Jacksonville game, right?

[DrDawkinstein]

Love Poyer and what he's done for this team, but if he has to wait until December to really turn on his A-game there will be a chance that Rapp unseats him for the starting spot by then. Younger, healthier legs sure seem to make a difference back there.

[Nephilim17]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

Anyhoo, here is what I think is going on.

Last year I think Mr Poyer learned a very hard (and very expensive) lesson about how to manage his health throughout a long season.

At the very beginning of last year he was absolutely trying to murder any viable target that came within 10yrds of him, repeatedly throwing his body at full speed and exposed, awkward angles at large armored athletes on practically every series.

Needless to say, this is not a strategy that is conducive to playing 16 football games in a row. And sure enough by later in the year, he was a shell of himself being held together by duct tape and bailing wire.

I think what we're seeing right now is a smarter, more veteran Poyer trying to play a much more controlled game, preserve his health and assure that when things get really important later in the year that he will be ready to go at full speed.

Is it a good idea? I think it is, both for Poyer and for the Bills. It may lead to fewer kill shots and fewer turnovers in the short term, but if it leads to a healthy Poyer in the playoffs, it will have been well worth it.

I fully expect to see a transition at some point in December where that heedless assassin begins to re-emerge in games against playoff worthy rivals; and I hope he does it wisely enough that when elimination games start he can step on the field and once again start trying to murder everybody in a different colored shirt.

Maybe I'm missing the point but the title of the thread sounds like something someone would post after a big game by Poyer and not something that supports your real point of Poyer is now trying to play a more controlled game to preserve his health and be healthy for the playoffs

If you titled the thread "Poyer trying to play a more controlled game to preserve his health" I think you'll get more traction.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

Poyer drove to KC with a punctured lung to play.  I'm 100% sure he would have played if required.  But I think wiser heads prevailed - we need him effective late in the season, not damaged in week 4.  And based on yesterday, I think it was a great choice.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Love Poyer and what he's done for this team, but if he has to wait until December to really turn on his A-game there will be a chance that Rapp unseats him for the starting spot by then. Younger, healthier legs sure seem to make a difference back there.

 

There's always a chance of that but a healthy Poyer is so impactful that it cannot be ignored.

Plus if he's doing this with the full consent (or even directives) of the staff, it should not be an issue.

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

Maybe I'm missing the point but the title of the thread sounds like something someone would post after a big game by Poyer and not something that supports your real point of Poyer is now trying to play a more controlled game to preserve his health and be healthy for the playoffs

If you titled the thread "Poyer trying to play a more controlled game to preserve his health" I think you'll get more traction.

 

"Bite me" is timeless and appropriate to virtually all situations.

Plus I just thought it was funny. 

[boyst]

you don't go from savage to saint the way he has without purpose. hyde has always played the smart angles and safer style. if poyer is indeed doing that then i hope he can snap out of it without jeopardizing himself.

 

one could argue he is trying to protect himself for another contract. he hopefully is for his own wellbeing.

 

regardless, i am satisfied that rapp can handle the load while we let Poyer take the time he needs.

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

Anyhoo, here is what I think is going on.

Last year I think Mr Poyer learned a very hard (and very expensive) lesson about how to manage his health throughout a long season.

At the very beginning of last year he was absolutely trying to murder any viable target that came within 10yrds of him, repeatedly throwing his body at full speed and exposed, awkward angles at large armored athletes on practically every series.

Needless to say, this is not a strategy that is conducive to playing 16 football games in a row. And sure enough by later in the year, he was a shell of himself being held together by duct tape and bailing wire.

I think what we're seeing right now is a smarter, more veteran Poyer trying to play a much more controlled game, preserve his health and assure that when things get really important later in the year that he will be ready to go at full speed.

Is it a good idea? I think it is, both for Poyer and for the Bills. It may lead to fewer kill shots and fewer turnovers in the short term, but if it leads to a healthy Poyer in the playoffs, it will have been well worth it.

I fully expect to see a transition at some point in December where that heedless assassin begins to re-emerge in games against playoff worthy rivals; and I hope he does it wisely enough that when elimination games start he can step on the field and once again start trying to murder everybody in a different colored shirt.

You may have some valid points. 

 

My thoughts on Poyer last year were twofold. First, it felt like without Hyde he was trying to do too much. Trying to make up for both his and Micah's production.

 

Second, he was playing for a contract. Being with the Bills or another team...he was in full out contract year mode. And I think that actually hurt him both physically and financially in the long run.  He (and moreso his lady) seemed DETERMINED to go play elsewhere. The land of lower taxes. But there was a reason he was signed back here instead. His body is shot IMO.

 

I really appreciate and respect the job he's done here in Buffalo. Guy has been really good for a really long time. But I believe those injuries have mounted up. It happens. He's still a very intelligent player and he may be able to make it through the year being smart rather than try and fly around and that's ok, too.

 

 

[noacls]

Rapp looks better in one game! Poyer has only been noticeable for his bad angles, missed tackles, and 2 steps lost this year. 

[Yobogoya!]

5 minutes ago, JÂy RÛßeÒ said:

Poyer drove to KC with a punctured lung to play.  I'm 100% sure he would have played if required.  But I think wiser heads prevailed - we need him effective late in the season, not damaged in week 4.  And based on yesterday, I think it was a great choice.

 

That was a true boss moment form Po. Guy's an absolute dawg. 

 

Is he on the downtown of his career? Yeah, probably. He is 32 after all. 

 

But the day the tandem of Poyer and Hyde comes to an end will be one of the saddest days this fandom has had to deal with since the drought years. I'm sure not looking forward to it. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Dear Jordan Poyer,

 

Prove the doubters wrong.

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Love Poyer and what he's done for this team, but if he has to wait until December to really turn on his A-game there will be a chance that Rapp unseats him for the starting spot by then. Younger, healthier legs sure seem to make a difference back there.

 

The best thing is for Rapp to rotate in for Poyer and Taron Johnson.  Those two players are difference makers in back 7 and we need they to make the plays only they can.  Hyde plays a different role and not see anyone who can substitute well for him; maybe Cam could relieve him sometimes.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

The best thing is for Rapp to rotate in for Poyer and Taron Johnson.

 

I don't think there is any way that Rapp can play the nickel.

I think Taron is fine right where he is.

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

That was a true boss moment form Po. Guy's an absolute dawg. 

 

 

The true boss moment from Po was when Bills did a stunt pulling DT around end and Po engaged lineman on line; lineman looked at Po with look "Who do you think you are boy?" and Po pushed him into backfield. 

I  was at a bar showing multiple games and someone asked me who that LB is and I said that is our STRONG safety.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't think there is any way that Rapp can play the nickel.

I think Taron is fine right where he is.

 

I love Taron, but I'd think of it as more of a Heavy Nickel. Not that Taron can't handle it, but spreading some snaps around might be a smart idea with the way guys were getting dinged.

[dave mcbride]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

Anyhoo, here is what I think is going on.

Last year I think Mr Poyer learned a very hard (and very expensive) lesson about how to manage his health throughout a long season.

At the very beginning of last year he was absolutely trying to murder any viable target that came within 10yrds of him, repeatedly throwing his body at full speed and exposed, awkward angles at large armored athletes on practically every series.

Needless to say, this is not a strategy that is conducive to playing 16 football games in a row. And sure enough by later in the year, he was a shell of himself being held together by duct tape and bailing wire.

I think what we're seeing right now is a smarter, more veteran Poyer trying to play a much more controlled game, preserve his health and assure that when things get really important later in the year that he will be ready to go at full speed.

Is it a good idea? I think it is, both for Poyer and for the Bills. It may lead to fewer kill shots and fewer turnovers in the short term, but if it leads to a healthy Poyer in the playoffs, it will have been well worth it.

I fully expect to see a transition at some point in December where that heedless assassin begins to re-emerge in games against playoff worthy rivals; and I hope he does it wisely enough that when elimination games start he can step on the field and once again start trying to murder everybody in a different colored shirt.

My recollection from last season is that he never really recovered from that elbow injury, where the swelling made it look like he had a small mammal living inside of it. He got that injury in camp (August 3), and we were still seeing this in November: 

.

[boyst]

Rapp in on heavy nickel and spelling Poyer when needed is very important. Johnson plays nickel very well, very smart. Simon, you are right that he cannot be replaced but when we need a run heavy nickel we don't need to replace Johnson - we need to supplement the defense to the matchup we face with Rapp. If we were simply looking to spell Johnson than I am 100% onboard with Neal coming in to get reps. Rapp simply offers coverage from someone who can play downhill smart and fast enough.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's a young man's game. Rapp is better and we all know it. Rapp should start the rest of the year. 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

It's a young man's game. Rapp is better and we all know it. Rapp should start the rest of the year. 

 

Keep it coming, baby.

I love y'all doubting that fella. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

45 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

interesting thought - could very well be!  

 

He should be a go for the Jacksonville game, right?

 

May depend on what the team thought of Rapps play?

[Simon]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:50 AM, Simon said:

Dear Jordan Poyer doubters,

Bite me.

 

     Yours truly,

                         Simon

 

I'm going to go ahead and take some lumps on this one cuz it's looking like I may have been dead wrong.

 

I really thought Poyer was just laying in the weeds, keeping himself healthy for the stretch run.

And I really thought that coming out of the bye and going to Kansas City would be the week he decided to go ahead and let the dawg out.

I like the guy and appreciate what he's done so I will be diplomatic and just say that letting that dawg out was NOT what happened on Sunday. 

 

[Rubes]

Yeah.

 

Unfortunately, Poyer is losing a step. I think he’ll stick around another year while we train up his replacement. On the other side, Hyde is at the point where he just needs to retire. We can’t rely on him being healthy for long stretches anymore. Sucks because they were an awesome duo to have for all these years. Hope we can find worthy replacements.

 

[TheFunPolice]

What's not to love about Jordan Poyer?

 

The man is a warrior, and has been a top safety while playing through injury. He's everything you want in a player. 

 

Sadly, time and the effects of a career worth of injuries are really starting to take their toll. Time comes for every player eventually, especially at positions requiring speed and agility. 

[DrMaxPower]

Agreed, though I'll give him partial credit for getting his nose dirty in the box. He's at least been active down low and made a few tackles and a couple punch outs.

 

The guy that's been really killing me is Hyde. Feels like he hasn't made a play all year. He's always a step slow or a few inches short on the jump. With all due respect to a good dude who has given a lot of years of high quality service, he might be our worst starter right now. I'd rather see Lewis play. At least his legs aren't shot.

 

Really too bad that these guys have hit the wall at the same time.

Edited December 13, 2023 by DrMaxPower

[DrDawkinstein]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:59 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Love Poyer and what he's done for this team, but if he has to wait until December to really turn on his A-game there will be a chance that Rapp unseats him for the starting spot by then. Younger, healthier legs sure seem to make a difference back there.

 

While I still stand by the general thoughts in my post, I'll say that I currently do not want Rapp anywhere near our Defense.

 

Dude is a loose cannon and is more dangerous to our own Defense than he is to the opposition.

 

I like his age and agility, and he doesnt seem to make any crazy obvious mistakes. But his hitting technique should not be tolerated.

[Aussie Joe]

I didn’t want Poyer brought back after last year … but given question marks over the other three safeties … I can now see him returning in 2024 … they might have  to squeeze his dollars though given his diminishing play..

 

Certainly a position  where some work needs to be done in the offseason ( another one)…

 

 

[JohnNord]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:57 PM, Simon said:

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

Anyhoo, here is what I think is going on.

Last year I think Mr Poyer learned a very hard (and very expensive) lesson about how to manage his health throughout a long season.

At the very beginning of last year he was absolutely trying to murder any viable target that came within 10yrds of him, repeatedly throwing his body at full speed and exposed, awkward angles at large armored athletes on practically every series.

Needless to say, this is not a strategy that is conducive to playing 16 football games in a row. And sure enough by later in the year, he was a shell of himself being held together by duct tape and bailing wire.

I think what we're seeing right now is a smarter, more veteran Poyer trying to play a much more controlled game, preserve his health and assure that when things get really important later in the year that he will be ready to go at full speed.

Is it a good idea? I think it is, both for Poyer and for the Bills. It may lead to fewer kill shots and fewer turnovers in the short term, but if it leads to a healthy Poyer in the playoffs, it will have been well worth it.

I fully expect to see a transition at some point in December where that heedless assassin begins to re-emerge in games against playoff worthy rivals; and I hope he does it wisely enough that when elimination games start he can step on the field and once again start trying to murder everybody in a different colored shirt.

 

I hope you are correct.  I’ve noticed that Poyer has 0 INTs this year, whereas last year he had 5 in 12 games and 4 in the season before.  

 

Not sure what to attribute this to, but I’m hoping that number picks up soon

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While I still stand by the general thoughts in my post, I'll say that I currently do not want Rapp anywhere near our Defense.

 

Plus he just sucks. I remember reading the Rams forum after Rapp signed with us and they were mostly celebrating. It’s a rarely a good sign when a players former team has fans celebrating him leaving.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

Haha if someone's being "trained" to be the replacement, it definitely shouldn't be Rapp. 

[Simon]

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Haha if someone's being "trained" to be the replacement, it definitely shouldn't be Rapp. 

 

I don't know, I could see Rapp being trained.

Possibly by a long line of dudes that he's tried to kill.

[BuffaloBillyG]

I, too will stand by my overall comments from previous. I believe Poyer played through way too many injuries last year and that took a perm toll on the body. He's still been for the most part, decent. But a far fall from where he was 2-3 years ago.

 

Guy has been a warrior, though. 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:15 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dear Jordan Poyer,

 

Prove the doubters wrong.

I'm more worried about Hyde. The neck injury seems to give him second thoughts when tackling. The attempt on Hurts for the game winning TD was questionable at best 

[finn]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Haha if someone's being "trained" to be the replacement, it definitely shouldn't be Rapp. 

Is Hamlin really that bad to stay on the bench even though Poyer and Hyde are barely hanging on? Yes, he was a liability when he played, pre-injury. But surely he's developed since then, right? 

 

Of course, we've been wondering the same thing about Elam. Could be McDermott's judgment is wrong. Or it could be both players just aren't very good. 

[MJS]

Him and Hyde got old very quickly.

[AuntieEm]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:57 PM, Simon said:

Only two people thought this was funny?

Damn, I must be slippin'.

 

  It was funny but it was just copycat of Whoopi Goldberg's response to the media that suggested Dolly should act her age after appearing in cowboy cheerleader outfit and the little picture I saw she doesn't look her age.   So I guess Poyer is your football Dolly Parton?   Rest of your post I agree he is playing smarter.  

 

[Rew]

Poyer and Hyde aren't at the levels they were at in their primes, but the defense is still notably worse when either are out.  They may not be "arguably best safety pairing in the league", but they aren't a liability when on the field.  Still both quality starters that have tremendous responsibility in an otherwise depleted secondary.  I'd be comfortable with their skill levels going into next year, but unfortunately availability is becoming an issue.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, finn said:

Is Hamlin really that bad to stay on the bench even though Poyer and Hyde are barely hanging on? Yes, he was a liability when he played, pre-injury. But surely he's developed since then, right? 

 

Of course, we've been wondering the same thing about Elam. Could be McDermott's judgment is wrong. Or it could be both players just aren't very good. 

Simon's early prediction was intriguing but as the weeks have gone by we've all clearly seen the rapid deterioration of both Poyer and Hyde.  The biggest indicator is the drop off in speed.  I honestly think they're both gone after this season and NO Rapp/ Hamlin are not viable replacements.  Besides drafting WR's, we'll need safeties badly. 

[finn]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Simon's early prediction was intriguing but as the weeks have gone by we've all clearly seen the rapid deterioration of both Poyer and Hyde.  The biggest indicator is the drop off in speed.  I honestly think they're both gone after this season and NO Rapp/ Hamlin are not viable replacements.  Besides drafting WR's, we'll need safeties badly. 

Any thoughts on Benford moving to safety if Elam works out? He has the requisite size, speed, and zone skills. Not a new idea, I know; I'm just trying to remember if there was a logical objection. Moving him to safety would allow Beane to use his first draft pick on a WR and move on from Davis, upgrading two positions and saving a lot of money to boot. 

 

Might still need a second safety, though. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, finn said:

Any thoughts on Benford moving to safety if Elam works out? He has the requisite size, speed, and zone skills. Not a new idea, I know; I'm just trying to remember if there was a logical objection. Moving him to safety would allow Beane to use his first draft pick on a WR and move on from Davis, upgrading two positions and saving a lot of money to boot. 

 

Might still need a second safety, though. 

 

I'd think Douglas is most likely to eventually transition into Hyde's spot. But I dont think any of the CBs do. We'd need them to move next year, and we'd just be creating another hole.

 

We need 2 starting Safeties and 1 CB for next year.