Do you think Josh cuts the INT's in half this year or is another year with double digit INT's

[Rc2catch]

The turnovers don’t bother me a ton, there’s certainly been some head scratching ones. Allen was big play hunting a lot last year and ignoring the 4-7 yard range where he’d have guys wide open for shorter gains. 
I think the lack of any run game factors into this. I hope they learned it can’t be Allen 100% of the time having to make a play. A halfway decent run game will take a lot off his shoulders. 
I dislike hearing the constant O line stuff. I’m a firm believer that the O line needs more rush attempts to get and stay into a rhythm while simultaneously having an impact on the D line getting worn down. Add in the amount of times they use play action when nobody is worried about the hand off. 
There’s a comment above they didn’t get Allen enough help, I would respectfully disagree. If they balance the offense I think he has plenty of help on the line and weapons to put up MVP like stats, even if they focus on the run game more. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Three INTs and three fumbles in two playoff games does, though.

this would actually make more sense if the bills actually lost to the Dolphins though.

 

By far his worst turnover game thus far in his playoff career and the bills offense still scored a ton of points and put up a ton of yards. Oh, and they won.

 

The next week they lose to the Bengals. Think Josh had two total turnovers in that game. But did the Bills lose because Allen had two turnovers or because he was only able to lead the Bills to one TD drive instead of 4 like the previous week?

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Toyo321 said:

I think he can do this if he is smarter with the ball in the red-zone,  last year he made some really bad throws that were picked off and should have been check down throws instead.

 

This also goes back to what Dorsey does this year to help with this problem by utilizing the backs and TE's more

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJTPRjTldo

 

 

 

 

 

Double digit INTs is the normal for pretty much all QBs. Even the best QBs throw 13-15 INTs a season. So no, I don't think he cuts it in half

[CSBill]

His fumbles worry me more. He can be scary and careless with the ball when he’s moving.

 

But, yes, given a choice, we all would prefer he has less turnovers, fumbles or interceptions. 

[C.Biscuit97]

44 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This is the correct answer

 

TD is worth 6 points

INT is not

Eh, depends on the int. If it’s like 3rd and long in your 30 and Allen throws a bomb that get picked, I agree. 
 

but turnovers in plus territory and the red zone are certainly worth points. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, depends on the int. If it’s like 3rd and long in your 30 and Allen throws a bomb that get picked, I agree. 
 

but turnovers in plus territory and the red zone are certainly worth points. 

Not 6

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, depends on the int. If it’s like 3rd and long in your 30 and Allen throws a bomb that get picked, I agree. 
 

but turnovers in plus territory and the red zone are certainly worth points. 

it also depends on the general productivity, or lack there of of the offense for that particular game.

 

last year’s two playoff games is the perfect example of this.

 

Turnovers were not a determining factor in winning or losing either game, other than they prevented the bills from blowing out the dolphins.

 

when the bills were not turning the ball over against the dolphins, they were scoring. Typically touchdowns. The offense was was having it’s way in that game.

 

it was the opposite against the Bengals. The bills offense could’ve had zero turnovers in that game and it’s very unlikely it would’ve made a difference on the scoreboard for the Bills. They just couldn’t move the ball. 

[PromoTheRobot]

If he leads the NFL in TD passes I won't care what his INT numbers are.

[Mr. WEO]

I see a 40% drop

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:

So if you’re going to include all the INTs that weren’t Josh’s fault, you should include all the dropped INTs by the opposition.  Josh accepts more risk than most QBs, and for the most part, I’m okay with this.  

I don’t have a video of the dropped INTs or a perfect memory, otherwise I would. Also I would say about half of the picks were unambiguously Allen’s fault. The rest were circumstances.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Joe burrow is not a consensus top 2 QB

 

Look at his playoff numbers lol Josh Allens numbers dwarf his ... With a less cast of skill guys

 

Sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and what actually matters. And when I look at Burrow I see a guy that's 4-2 lifetime in the playoffs (2 appearances) including 3-1 on the road in the AFC playoffs. One SB appearance, back to back AFCCG. This isn't by accident. JA17 in comparison is 4-4 (4 appearances) including 0-3 on the road.

 

It's not taking away anything from JA17, I've moved past doubting him and he's definitely a top 5 - 10 NFL QB at worst but I just don't see how you can put him in the same conversation with Mahomes/Burrow until he at least gets to a SB, wins a road playoff game, etc. Obviously the current HC is a major reason why this hasn't happened yet and why the SB will remain elusive as long as he's here.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and what actually matters. And when I look at Burrow I see a guy that's 4-2 lifetime in the playoffs (2 appearances) including 3-1 on the road in the AFC playoffs. One SB appearance, back to back AFCCG. This isn't by accident. JA17 in comparison is 4-4 (4 appearances) including 0-3 on the road.

 

It's not taking away anything from JA17, I've moved past doubting him and he's definitely a top 5 - 10 NFL QB at worst but I just don't see how you can put him in the same conversation with Mahomes/Burrow until he at least gets to a SB, wins a road playoff game, etc. Obviously the current HC is a major reason why this hasn't happened yet and why the SB will remain elusive as long as he's here.

Go look at how many ppg their respective defenses allow in the playoffs

[DapperCam]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and what actually matters. And when I look at Burrow I see a guy that's 4-2 lifetime in the playoffs (2 appearances) including 3-1 on the road in the AFC playoffs. One SB appearance, back to back AFCCG. This isn't by accident. JA17 in comparison is 4-4 (4 appearances) including 0-3 on the road.

 

It's not taking away anything from JA17, I've moved past doubting him and he's definitely a top 5 - 10 NFL QB at worst but I just don't see how you can put him in the same conversation with Mahomes/Burrow until he at least gets to a SB, wins a road playoff game, etc. Obviously the current HC is a major reason why this hasn't happened yet and why the SB will remain elusive as long as he's here.

Burrow - 9 TDs and 4 INT in 7 playoff games.

Allen - 17 TD and 4 INT in 8 playoff games.

 

It’s a team sport, and our defense has shown up less than the Bengals defense.

 

Obviously the entire team didn’t show up this past divisional round, but you need to look at the body of work.

[jletha]

45 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, depends on the int. If it’s like 3rd and long in your 30 and Allen throws a bomb that get picked, I agree. 
 

but turnovers in plus territory and the red zone are certainly worth points. 

a punt is a turnover in the same way.

1 minute ago, DapperCam said:

Burrow - 9 TDs and 4 INT in 7 playoff games.

Allen - 17 TD and 4 INT in 8 playoff games.

 

It’s a team sport, and our defense has shown up less than the Bengals defense.

 

Obviously the entire team didn’t show up this past divisional round, but you need to look at the body of work.

No you must not remember when Joe Burrow shut down Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and had the interception in OT. Also when Joe Burrow ran back a fumble for 98 yards when they were about to lose to a third string QB.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Honestly, what I have grown to love about Allen is what made me so nervous about him in the first place. Dude is a gunslinger. He is going to have a few of those what the hell was that (or mash all the button plays) where you have no idea what he was thinking (see the Houston playoff game).  But he makes up for it with all the amazing other plays he makes. So you just have to accept they will happen and trying to get him to fully change that might take away with what makes him great. 

I’m not as worried but the ints because as you said, they happen. I think people are forgetting about the fumbles with has become an issue. 
 

im fine with the occasional crazy int. But he seem to struggle with ball security which also single-handedly cause us the Vikings game. 

Right.

 

I'd love to understand WHEN do his turnovers occur.  Are they in game sealing/game changing moments, or are we talking about a deep ball on a 3rd and 15 with 1 minute left in the half that is relatively inconsequential.  Maybe if I have the time this week I can dive into his turnovers over the past 3 years to better understand.

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Burrow - 9 TDs and 4 INT in 7 playoff games.

Allen - 17 TD and 4 INT in 8 playoff games.

 

It’s a team sport, and our defense has shown up less than the Bengals defense.

 

Obviously the entire team didn’t show up this past divisional round, but you need to look at the body of work.

 

I get it but none of the football pundits and talking heads see it that way either.

 

But again, the main reason JA17 has been held back in the playoffs is terrible coaching and horrendous defensive scheme that unlike KC and CIN looks great in the regular season but horrendous in the playoffs. With those two teams it's been the opposite in terms of how their defense performs.

 

Should this team get back to the playoffs this year and anything close to '13 seconds' or AFFCG in KC/Bengals game last year happens you fire McD on the spot if you truly care about having a franchise QB on your team.

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

If the OL improves and gives Josh time to throw the ball as well as an improved run game, then that should help limit the turnovers. 

As well, if Josh takes the short pass as it presents itself, that will help quite a bit, ask Tom Brady if you don’t want to believe me…,  

[CincyBillsFan]

I was curious about how important throwing double digit INT's was without any further context so I looked up Tom Brady's stats.  In 20 seasons where he played the full season Brady threw double digit INT's in 12!  That's 60% of his career.

 

 

[ALLinALLEN]

56 minutes ago, CSBill said:

His fumbles worry me more. He can be scary and careless with the ball when he’s moving.

 

But, yes, given a choice, we all would prefer he has less turnovers, fumbles or interceptions. 

Quick look he's fumbled in 52 of his 77 reg season games....thats wildly BAD.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, ALLinALLEN said:

Quick look he's fumbled in 52 of his 77 reg season games....thats wildly BAD.

Quick look, he's also rushed for 3087 yards, with a 5.7 aver, for 228 1st downs and 38 TD's in 77 reg season games - that's wildly great!

 

Oh and he only lost 28 fumbles.

 

 

 

[ALLinALLEN]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Quick look, he's also rushed for 3087 yards, with a 5.7 aver, for 228 1st downs and 38 TD's in 77 reg season games - that's wildly great!

 

Oh and he only lost 28 fumbles.

 

 

 

He's an amazing talent there's no doubting that of course. That doesnt mean he should be void of criticism for turnovers. He had 22 combined last year between interceptions and fumbles. 

 

 

[billsbackto81]

Not all turnovers are created equal. Ints are not always the QBs fault.  There could be miscommunication,  wrong route, tipped ball and bouncing off the receiver's hands. Fumbles more times than not are on the ball carrier. Careless grip, fighting for extra yards, holding the ball too long and running when not necessary. 

 

I'd rather see him more careful when handling the football as opposed to throwing it. Ints are always gonna be there, especially when you're elite and take chances others won't. 

[Clyde Smith]

If the receivers catch the ball and not let it pop up in the air. He can knock off 4-6 picks instantly.

[Stads]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

He simply needs to be more careful with the ball.  Not only did he lead the league in turnovers (19) last year while only playing 16 games, but take a look at his postseason record.  He has 12 turnovers in 8 career postseason games which would equate to 25.5 over a 17 game schedule.

Hold on a second there friend. My calculations show that 25.5 is larger than 19. I certainly don't like the looks of that

[Billl]

44 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Burrow - 9 TDs and 4 INT in 7 playoff games.

Allen - 17 TD and 4 INT in 8 playoff games.

 

It’s a team sport, and our defense has shown up less than the Bengals defense.

 

Obviously the entire team didn’t show up this past divisional round, but you need to look at the body of work.

Josh Allen: 2 rushing TDs, 8 fumbles in 8 playoff games

 

Joe Burrow: 2 rushing TDs, 0 fumbles in 7 playoff games

[Airseven]

I can tolerate some of the INTs. For better or worse, it's part of Allen's game. But the fumbles kill me. He's so careless with the ball.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

Josh Allen: 2 rushing TDs, 8 fumbles in 8 playoff games

 

Joe Burrow: 2 rushing TDs, 0 fumbles in 7 playoff games

Incorrect

[Toyo321]

8 minutes ago, Airseven said:

I can tolerate some of the INTs. For better or worse, it's part of Allen's game. But the fumbles kill me. He's so careless with the ball.

He is a huge guy with big hands you would think he could hold on to the damn pigskin better.   

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Incorrect

Feel free to elaborate. 

 

Josh ran for TDs against the Texans and Bengals.  He fumbled twice against the Texans, one each against the Colts, Ravens, and Chiefs, and three times against the Dolphins.

 

Burrow ran for a TD against the Ravens and has not fumbled.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

Feel free to elaborate. 

 

Josh ran for TDs against the Texans and Bengals.  He fumbled twice against the Texans, one each against the Colts, Ravens, and Chiefs, and three times against the Dolphins.

 

Burrow ran for a TD against the Ravens and has not fumbled.

wasn’t it a receiving touchdown against the Texans? And I could’ve sworn he ran for a touchdown against the Colts. I’m just going off of memory though.

 

also, off of memory, the only fumble I can think of that really hurt the bills was the one that Miami took back for a touchdown. But in the end no harm because the bills still won because of how good Josh Allen in the offense was that day.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

Feel free to elaborate. 

 

Josh ran for TDs against the Texans and Bengals.  He fumbled twice against the Texans, one each against the Colts, Ravens, and Chiefs, and three times against the Dolphins.

 

Burrow ran for a TD against the Ravens and has not fumbled.

Even a troll like you should be able to realize two does not equal one

[LarryMadman]

3 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

I think he can do this if he is smarter with the ball in the red-zone,  last year he made some really bad throws that were picked off and should have been check down throws instead.

 

This also goes back to what Dorsey does this year to help with this problem by utilizing the backs and TE's more

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJTPRjTldo

 

 

 

 

 

Don't know or don't care because he's going to throw for 40+ and rush for about 10 more.

[Playoffs?]

I think a lot depends on our O Line.

[BuffBillsForLife]

Turnovers regularly derail the Bills, but they weren't the problem in either playoff loss the last two seasons.  So basically, I have nothing of value to add.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and what actually matters. And when I look at Burrow I see a guy that's 4-2 lifetime in the playoffs (2 appearances) including 3-1 on the road in the AFC playoffs. One SB appearance, back to back AFCCG. This isn't by accident. JA17 in comparison is 4-4 (4 appearances) including 0-3 on the road.

 

It's not taking away anything from JA17, I've moved past doubting him and he's definitely a top 5 - 10 NFL QB at worst but I just don't see how you can put him in the same conversation with Mahomes/Burrow until he at least gets to a SB, wins a road playoff game, etc. Obviously the current HC is a major reason why this hasn't happened yet and why the SB will remain elusive as long as he's here.

Last Time I checked football is the ultimate team game?

 

Burrow was not the reason the Bengals went to the super bowl...sure , a part.. but not the reason

 

I wager Josh Allen wins the super bowl if he was on that Bengals team

 

Joe burrow hasn't won anything yet either.. going to the super bowl means squat

 

Is Nick foles a better quarterback than Josh Allen because he's a super bowl winner? No

Edited August 23, 2023 by Buffalo716

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I wager Josh Allen wins the super bowl if he was on that Bengals team

I'd double the bet that Allen wins the Super Bowl the last two years if he was the Bengal's QB. And for the record I think Burrow is elite.

 

 

[Billl]

59 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Even a troll like you should be able to realize two does not equal one

You got me.  I mistakenly typed 2 rushing TDs for Burrow.  That completely invalidates the fact that Allen has 8 fumbles in 8 playoff games compared to zero for Burrow in 7 games.  Feel better?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

You got me.  I mistakenly typed 2 rushing TDs for Burrow.  That completely invalidates the fact that Allen has 8 fumbles in 8 playoff games compared to zero for Burrow in 7 games.  Feel better?

we are all shaking in our boots over the fumbles by Allen that have cost the Bills a Super Bowl.

 

Can you remind us which of those 8 fumbles those were again?

 

 

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, Billl said:

You got me.  I mistakenly typed 2 rushing TDs for Burrow.  That completely invalidates the fact that Allen has 8 fumbles in 8 playoff games compared to zero for Burrow in 7 games.  Feel better?

I'm honestly surprised they continue letting you post here, you are a net negative contributor 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm honestly surprised they continue letting you post here, you are a net negative contributor 

Because I have the temerity to discuss Josh's ball security issues in a threat about Josh's ball security?