Bills practice Thurs 8/17 starting with McD interview

[YattaOkasan]

51 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

But why are they locks?  They are certainly not very proven.  Shakir in particular isn't.  Harty is a proven special teams player and Sherfield had 30 catches last year.  I'm arguing that we are over-rating Harty, Sherfield and Shakir.  Harty has 64 NFL catches over 4 years, Sherfield has 67 over 5 years and Shakir has 10 in 1 year.  Does that scream "proven"?

 

Please don't interpret this to mean that I think they are horrible.  I am only saying that they are really not proven, so why would they be considered "locks" to make the roster?

Sherfield is a proven ST player as well as blocker.  He doesnt have huge receiving production at WR (though 400+ yards last year in Miami is nice) but a lot of that seems to because he hasnt gotten the reps (last year was the first year with more than 350 snaps).  So the things hes proven in are not things that come across in a box score.  

[Snappysnackcakes]

I think, if all else fails, we’ll see a combo of Klein on run downs and Rapp on passing downs. 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

What would be funny is if Dorian Williams ended up at middle linebacker just because nobody else was stepping up and he ended up being really good

I am all for it. Milano should be able handle communication at the 2nd level, shouldn't he? They have vet (all pro calibre!) players at every level of this defense. I'm willing to live with the growing pains of Dorian.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

What would be funny is if Dorian Williams ended up at middle linebacker just because nobody else was stepping up and he ended up being really good

He will be starting MLB next year, too much for the rookie to do the defensive call his first year.  Interesting to hear Ed Oliver yesterday, said he was so used to Tremaine calling the plays even when Tremaine mumbled or was tired, he knew what he was saying.  This year, Oliver has had to pay close attention to he MLBer.

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Why are you getting eyeroll reactions from this? You're 100% correct. They chose to do literally nothing at the position and are now suffering the consequences.

Look up the definitions of "literally" and "nothing" and you'll understand. Neither of these words are used correctly. 

 

 

 

I remember hearing a lot in the past how the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense but now all the sudden they're completely different and we have to let the rookie LB learn the outside backer spot. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Not at the table Karlos
Separate posts

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Bigvinny said:

Lots of guys they could have signed but didn't, not good.

Name them.  In order.  And when you do then also figure out how you would have fit them under the cap.  

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’ll likely go with AJ Klein as the failsafe. Hopefully Klein has tread left. Dodson doesn’t look capable of being the run downs MLB. 

 

Klein looked like he had tread left in preseason game.  He was also directing players.

 

Who gets the LB headset in preseason games? 

[Nephilim17]

24 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

This Damien Harris guy isn't cutting the mustard in Buffalo

Go rest your knee somewhere else.

But does he pass muster?

Not ready to write Harris off yet. But a good thing we have Murray. 

[Special K]

Last year, I wanted the Bills to draft Devin Lloyd instead of Kair Elam with their first round pick for exactly this reason.

 

They could have drafted a CB with their 3rd round pick instead of Bernard, and would have had Lloyd ready to go this year as the strarting MLB after a year of apprenticeship behind Edmunds and Milano.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but this would have definitely been the better way to go, IMO.

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Look up the definitions of "literally" and "nothing" and you'll understand. Neither of these words are used correctly. 

 

 

 

I remember hearing a lot in the past how the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense but now all the sudden they're completely different and we have to let the rookie LB learn the outside backer spot. 

It's crazy right?  The overall prevailing theme before/after Edmunds signed with the Bears was that he wasn't that important and that the defense did so well in spite of him.  Now there is a mediocre at best MLB in the defense, which many thought would be fine....yet many are freaking out about it?  Gotta love this place!

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

The sleeve is clearly to hide his robotic replacement.

 

Just watched Latavius Murry interview.  Noticed he's wearing sleeves.  Are we concerned about elbow injuries?

[Ya Digg?]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

Last year, I wanted the Bills to draft Devin Lloyd instead of Kair Elam with their first round pick for exactly this reason.

 

They could have drafted a CB with their 3rd round pick instead of Bernard, and would have had Lloyd ready to go this year as the strarting MLB after a year of apprenticeship behind Edmunds and Milano.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but this would have definitely been the better way to go, IMO.

Who's the 3rd round corner you're drafting last year?  Or would any corner have been fine?

[Dukestreetking]

53 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I could just be a Nattering Nabob of Negativity here

Well done Beck: Spiro Agnew has entered the chat.

[oldmanfan]

Ok, as for the MLB position I offer this challenge:

 

1.  For those saying they made a mistake not keeping Edmunds, show posts from the past several years indicating you felt he was the right guy, and also show how you would have offered him a competitive contract (equal to what the Bears gave him) and how you would have made it fit under the cap.  Be sure to show what players you would have gotten rid of.

2.  For those now saying they should have made another move to get a veteran MLB, name the veteran and how we would have attracted him (not like the Bucs guy that didn't want to move his family.  Explain the contract you would have offered, and again how you would have fit that under the cap, what other players you would have cut etc.

3.  Assuming you did one of the two, then show by past posts or whatever that you were OK with them not doing anything at RT as an example, or 2nd WR.  Or if you were going to replace not just MLB but RT and 2nd WR explain who would have been the upgrades and how you would have dealt with the cap.

 

Why am I asking this?  Because this is what Beane had to face.  Easy for fans to sit to the side and complain.  I think they will approach MLB with Dodson starting, but a healthy dose of Rapp and a lot of 4-1-6 looks.

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Who's the 3rd round corner you're drafting last year?  Or would any corner have been fine?

Well, I know Tariq Woolen would have been available with their second round pick, but that would mean no James Cook....I'm sure the Bills would have been able to find a CB in the third round that would have fit their system due to fact that the Bills grabbed Benford in the later rounds, and he seems to fit better than Elam.

[jletha]

28 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I think, if all else fails, we’ll see a combo of Klein on run downs and Rapp on passing downs. 

I think were definitely going to see more dime packages this year. I have zero faith Dodson can cover the likes of Kelce or Andrews.

[OldTimer1960]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Googling stats is a terrible way to answer that question as it not only lacks context of their past circumstances, it contains no information or data from this off-season and camp.

 

Sherfield and Harty are near locks because they are better players than their stat sheet shows do to lesser opportunities and they have had great camps.  Their roster spots biggest threat would be injuries to themselves at this point.  
 

Shakir isn’t as safe IMO, but he’s pretty safe because they really like him and he’s shown some good things too even with some things he needs to work on.  He won’t be a safe stash on the PS, so if they want to keep him it has to be on the 53 man roster.
 

Andy Isabella could make the cut decisions interesting if he keeps turning the coaches heads for all the right reasons.  
 

I think we keep 6 WRs:

Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, Shakir, Isabella

 

Shorter goes to the PS unless they keep 7 in which he would be the 7th guy.

I agree with much of this.  I do think Shakir is in the most potential danger of the 3.  I don't mind Shakir and hope he does well, but he isn't super big or super fast, so he has to win with quickness and he HAS to have sure hands.  He is reportedly struggling with his hands in practice and that drop in the last game was bad.  I don't know why Isabella wouldn't have an opportunity to beat him out.

 

I am not saying that Sherfield or Harty are bad, but they are far from proven (other than on special teams).  Now, if people want to ascribe Harty and Sherfield's lack of stats to lack of opportunity- couldn't that also be said of the other guys trying to win spots?  I fully expect Sherfield and Harty to make the team, I'm just saying that they aren't truly established NFL receivers that should be locks.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

37 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

yes Isabelle

 

I think Boogie is the second option talking him up to get a pick for him

 

they raved about how Boogie did against future  burger flippers and Amazon drivers

Agree on boogie, with how deep the d line is the bills have to be looking to move a guy for a pick 

[Ya Digg?]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

Well, I know Tariq Woolen would have been available with their second round pick, but that would mean no James Cook....I'm sure the Bills would have been able to find a CB in the third round that would have fit their system due to fact that the Bills grabbed Benford in the later rounds, and he seems to fit better than Elam.

But this is part of the problem with playing the hypothetical game.  You have this completely different idea, but don't actually have a solution.  Now you suggest taking a corner in the second (not in the third), but that obviously costs the Bills Cook, and you just throw out well I'm sure they would have found some guy

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I remember hearing a lot in the past how the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense but now all the sudden they're completely different and we have to let the rookie LB learn the outside backer spot. 

 

Mind sharing where you heard that?  Because I have literally never heard that.

 

What I have heard, is that Taron Johnson is able to play the run like a LB,  Milano was able to provide pass coverage like a dime CB, and Edmunds as a LB was good at clogging up passing lanes in the middle of the field - which is one reason the Bills evolved to stay in a 4-2-5 as their base D.

 

I also heard Frazier say that Milano, Edmunds, and Taron Johnson had some interchangeable responsibilities, and that when one of them was out (at the time it was Milano) they had to rework some defensive responsibility

 

Last, I heard that at times last season teams were keying off Taron Johnson to decode the coverage, and that one reason we may have  changed safeties coach was to alter the defensive scheme in that regard (which might mean interchanging some safety and nickle or even LB responsibilities in coverage

 

But I have never heard that the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I could just be a Nattering Nabob of Negativity here, but I didn't think Bernard looked like he could tackle a RB with a full head of steam last season, and he looked just the same arriving for OTAs. 

 

So unsure why they thought Bernard would be It at MLB

I saw the same thing.  And I'm sure McDermott saw it too.  He was confident he had enough talent on the roster to cover position, so I have to think he saw more in Bernard than we did. 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, jletha said:

I think were definitely going to see more dime packages this year. I have zero faith Dodson can cover the likes of Kelce or Andrews.

 

I believe that responsibility usually fell to Milano?

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Him saying he’s concerned about MLB made me upset. Huge failure.

He was very concerned with Stefon Diggs before camp.  Do you think he’s still concerned?

Edited August 17, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

But I have never heard that the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense.

What we heard was that Hyde and Poyer both could play either, and that added to their value in disguising coverages.  We also heard, I think, that to a lesser extent Milano and Edmunds could do it, too.  It's not the positions that are interchangeable.  It's that it's helpful of the players are  interchangeable.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Mind sharing where you heard that?  Because I have literally never heard that.

 

What I have heard, is that Taron Johnson is able to play the run like a LB,  Milano was able to provide pass coverage like a dime CB, and Edmunds as a LB was good at clogging up passing lanes in the middle of the field - which is one reason the Bills evolved to stay in a 4-2-5 as their base D.

 

I also heard Frazier say that Milano, Edmunds, and Taron Johnson had some interchangeable responsibilities, and that when one of them was out (at the time it was Milano) they had to rework some defensive responsibility

 

Last, I heard that at times last season teams were keying off Taron Johnson to decode the coverage, and that one reason we may have  changed safeties coach was to alter the defensive scheme in that regard (which might mean interchanging some safety and nickle or even LB responsibilities in coverage

 

But I have never heard that the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense.

Was mentioned a lot about Edmunds and Milano and Hyde and Poyer. Like multiple times in camp and during the season since they got here. Mentioned during games by the announcers and sideline people. During radio discussions and on here. 

 

Edit as shaw pointed out it was more the players were interchangeable but the way it was worded the positions were. I think it was Greg Cosell that said the positions were interchangeable on wgr a while back or maybe John Clayton. Chris Brown and Tasker have definitely said it.  However the coaches look for that type of player so they can disguise coverages so they do want them to be interchangeable. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Not at the table Karlos

[Special K]

5 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

But this is part of the problem with playing the hypothetical game.  You have this completely different idea, but don't actually have a solution.  Now you suggest taking a corner in the second (not in the third), but that obviously costs the Bills Cook, and you just throw out well I'm sure they would have found some guy

 

Bills have had a track record of finding late round corners that can play in the NFL.....Dane Jackson, Taron Johnson, Benford on the Bills.....Kevon Seymour and Rachad Wildgoose on other NFL teams.

 

I'm sorry I don't have draft boards from two drafts ago available to me right now, but if I did, I'm sure I could name a player or two that would fit the bill for what the Bills look for in a CB.

 

Plus, I never suggested taking a corner in the second....I clearly stated that would cost us Cook.

 

I would take Lloyd as the Bills starting MLB plus a third round CB that McBeane selected over Elam and Bernard ten times out of ten, period.

[Ya Digg?]

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

Bills have had a track record of finding late round corners that can play in the NFL.....Dane Jackson, Taron Johnson, Benford on the Bills.....Kevon Seymour and Rachad Wildgoose on other NFL teams.

 

I'm sorry I don't have draft boards from two drafts ago available to me right now, but if I did, I'm sure I could name a player or two that would fit the bill for what the Bills look for in a CB.

 

Plus, I never suggested taking a corner in the second....I clearly stated that would cost us Cook.

 

I would take Lloyd as the Bills starting MLB plus a third round CB that McBeane selected over Elam and Bernard ten times out of ten, period.

You did say they could have taken Woolen in the 2nd round, and both Seymour and Wildgoose are listed as 3rd stringers on their current teams.  The only point I'm trying to make is that the hindsight game is useless.  Not to mention your plan had the Bills first round pick sitting his entire first season with pretty much no chance of playing outside of injury.  So a MLB stuck on the bench, then a 3rd round CB battling a 6th round CB to start opposite a previous 7th round pick - that doesn't sound great to me

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

You did say they could have taken Woolen in the 2nd round, and both Seymour and Wildgoose are listed as 3rd stringers on their current teams.  The only point I'm trying to make is that the hindsight game is useless.  Not to mention your plan had the Bills first round pick sitting his entire first season with pretty much no chance of playing outside of injury.  So a MLB stuck on the bench, then a 3rd round CB battling a 6th round CB to start opposite a previous 7th round pick - that doesn't sound great to me

LOL, this place would have exploded had we drafted a backup MLB in the first round last year with that glaring need at CB

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

An undrafted and 2 3rd round reaches was the competition.

 

I’m very concerned with the coaches and management.

 

I've beat this drum for several years now as most here know and the way MLB is being handled is a major reason why.

 

I was never a big Edmunds fan and glad this team didn't give him the deal Chicago did, but drafting all these tweaner/midget type of players was highly suspect and relying on fringe NFL player like Dodson is (at least to start the year) is a recipe for disaster.

 

Won't matter how good this Dline is the middle is of the field will be wide open in terms of both passing/running lanes and this schedule is a murderer's row in terms of opposing QB's this year.

 

 

[Special K]

6 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

LOL, this place would have exploded had we drafted a backup MLB in the first round last year with that glaring need at CB

 

I diagree....everybody knew Edmunds was leaving at the end of the year with no plan to replace him...this would have been the plan. Plus, Edmunds and Milano missed time with injury last year, and Lloyd would have gotten playing time filling in for each of them when they were out. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

37 minutes ago, Special K said:

Last year, I wanted the Bills to draft Devin Lloyd instead of Kair Elam with their first round pick for exactly this reason.

 

They could have drafted a CB with their 3rd round pick instead of Bernard, and would have had Lloyd ready to go this year as the strarting MLB after a year of apprenticeship behind Edmunds and Milano.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but this would have definitely been the better way to go, IMO.

you're correct, hindsight is 20/20

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

 

I diagree....everybody knew Edmunds was leaving at the end of the year with no plan to replace him...this would have been the plan. Plus, Edmunds and Milano missed time with injury last year, and Lloyd would have gotten playing time filling in for each of them when they were out. 

Also, Lloyd didn't exactly light the league on fire with his 48 PFF grade and losing his starting role.

[Special K]

12 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

 So a MLB stuck on the bench, then a 3rd round CB battling a 6th round CB to start opposite a previous 7th round pick - that doesn't sound great to me

 

Were you watching last season?? Elam had a hard time cracking the lineup battling these exact players you are describing. It got so bad that at one point they had to bring in the bloated corpse of Xavier Rhodes for competition.

 

Not to mention the fact that Elam still has no locked down a spot in the starting lineup battling these exact same players you described while having a year plus an offseason to get ready.

 

Agree to disagree, but my scenario still would have been the better option.

3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Also, Lloyd didn't exactly light the league on fire with his 48 PFF grade and losing his starting role.

 

Well, he would have had a year to develop here, so time will tell if he becomes a better player this year....I think he will.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Mind sharing where you heard that?  Because I have literally never heard that.

 

What I have heard, is that Taron Johnson is able to play the run like a LB,  Milano was able to provide pass coverage like a dime CB, and Edmunds as a LB was good at clogging up passing lanes in the middle of the field - which is one reason the Bills evolved to stay in a 4-2-5 as their base D.

 

I also heard Frazier say that Milano, Edmunds, and Taron Johnson had some interchangeable responsibilities, and that when one of them was out (at the time it was Milano) they had to rework some defensive responsibility

 

Last, I heard that at times last season teams were keying off Taron Johnson to decode the coverage, and that one reason we may have  changed safeties coach was to alter the defensive scheme in that regard (which might mean interchanging some safety and nickle or even LB responsibilities in coverage

 

But I have never heard that the safety and LB spots are interchangeable in this defense.

I think he means FS/SS are interchangeable, and SLB/MLB/WLB are interchangeable.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

19 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I've beat this drum for several years now as most here know and the way MLB is being handled is a major reason why.

 

I was never a big Edmunds fan and glad this team didn't give him the deal Chicago did, but drafting all these tweaner/midget type of players was highly suspect and relying on fringe NFL player like Dodson is (at least to start the year) is a recipe for disaster.

 

Won't matter how good this Dline is the middle is of the field will be wide open in terms of both passing/running lanes and this schedule is a murderer's row in terms of opposing QB's this year.

 

 

I apologize to everyone that’s been talking about MLB all offseason. I wasn’t worried because I thought they had a plan. Turns out there was no plan, just hope.

[JerseyBills]

19 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I diagree....everybody knew Edmunds was leaving at the end of the year with no plan to replace him...this would have been the plan. Plus, Edmunds and Milano missed time with injury last year, and Lloyd would have gotten playing time filling in for each of them when they were out. 

And Dodson filled in and we went 4-0 in those games

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I apologize to everyone that’s been talking about MLB all offseason. I wasn’t worried because I thought they had a plan. Turns out there was no plan, just hope.

 

Even Achilles had his heel.

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Agree, and the fact that he's publicly acknowledging the obvious is a major concern for a team that still fancies themselves as a division winner/SB contender.

 

Have to believe Beane is going to try and swing a trade for a viable option soon knowing all these DE/DT aren't making the final roster...

 

Is this an even bigger mistake than the one you said where Beasely is healthy and going to dominate? Ya know, despite that he's injured and on the roster bubble

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

And Dodson filled in and we went 4-0 in those games

That's a bad read

 

first off he played in the Vikings game

 

the other ones were the terrible Steelers and Browns

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Last year, I wanted the Bills to draft Devin Lloyd instead of Kair Elam with their first round pick for exactly this reason.

 

They could have drafted a CB with their 3rd round pick instead of Bernard, and would have had Lloyd ready to go this year as the strarting MLB after a year of apprenticeship behind Edmunds and Milano.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but this would have definitely been the better way to go, IMO.

Lloyd did struggle a lot as a rookie but is having a good camp this year.

 

 I’m not sure I would’ve taken Lloyd anyway looking back, probably OL.