Hines out for the year

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Welcome back, heart palpitations every time we return a kick.

 

Huh? 

 

Deonte Harty, when healthy, has been one of the best returners in the league.

[HappyDays]

I hate this for Hines, but it means nothing to our season outlook IMO. I came into the offseason thinking Hines had a good chance of being released.

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, Process said:

That stinks for him. Seems like a good guy. 

 

The Bills will be just fine. TBH I wish we just cut him in the spring. Saying you don't have the money to sign Hopkins while you have guys like Hines and Siran Neal taking up $3.5M in cap space each is so ridiculous. 

Yeah, having a return weapon like Hines on our roster is ridiculous.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

And the Madden Curse takes it’s first victim.

[MWK]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yeah, having a return weapon like Hines on our roster is ridiculous.

 

Returns don’t matter anymore with the new rules.

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, MWK said:

 

Returns don’t matter anymore with the new rules.

Right. I just fantasized that Hines returned two kickoffs for TD’s in one game. A game we won by 12 points.

 

The fair catch rule is going to be rarely used.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beast

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

That stinks for him. Seems like a good guy. 

 

The Bills will be just fine. TBH I wish we just cut him in the spring. Saying you don't have the money to sign Hopkins while you have guys like Hines and Siran Neal taking up $3.5M in cap space each is so ridiculous. 

 

Because saving $3.4M by cutting Hines and Neal really helps afford $12M in yearly salary.

 

Look, I "get" the frustration that the Bills didn't choose to go all-in on a WR splash.  That's a puzzling organizational decision.

 

But picking out two players who had definite roles and were doing them well last year and saying "cut them" is far from the retrenchment that would be needed to make that particular OBJ or Nuk splash.

[MWK]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

Right. I just fantasized that Hines returned two kickoffs for TD’s in one game. A game we won by 12 points.

 

You clearly don’t know that the kickoff rules changed to make it much less likely a return will happen

[dorquemada]

Just hope that from a karmic perspective we've now gotten the annual 'lost player to season ending injury in training camp' behind us

 

it sucks because Hines was an exciting player, and a blown out knee doesn't bode well for a RB's long term prospects

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, MWK said:

 

You clearly don’t know that the kickoff rules changed to make it much less likely a return will happen

If you think players are going to give up the opportunity to return the ball in the field of play to fair catch it and take it at the 25 you are nuts.

 

The best returners in the game are taking it out from 5 yards deep quite often.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beast

[Captain Hindsight]

I was really looking forward to seeing him play this year. Been one of my favorite players for a while.

 

Sucks

[TBBills Fan]

Was a rubber mat involved?

[wppete]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Dalvin time

Yup! They have to bring him on now. 

[Jay_Fixit]

Well there goes a player that probably wouldn’t have done much this season.

[Matt_In_NH]

38 minutes ago, JMM said:

We will be fine. He was on the bubble this year frankly. RB room is loaded, best shape in years. We have Harty and Shakir as returnees. Bad break, but not a big blow as far as I'm concerned 

 

 

For all the talk about RB value......his was terrible but there was no dead money if the Bills walked.   The Bills negotiated it down but took a decent dead cap if they moved on which was/is not going to happen. My opinion of how Beane handled the redo of his contract was that he overpaid and was trying to justify the trade of the draft pick a little.  This sucks for Hines so I do understand the human value.  But Hines is the top paid RB on the team and he is 3rd or fourth string....with returnability.  

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I hate this for Hines, but it means nothing to our season outlook IMO. I came into the offseason thinking Hines had a good chance of being released.

He was a highly paid kick returner on this team.

8 minutes ago, MWK said:

 

You clearly don’t know that the kickoff rules changed to make it much less likely a return will happen

The touchback thing?  The Bills often return if out of the end zone when they are in their rights to down it.

[Simon Says]

36 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Terrible for Hines, speedy recovery to him

 

Does this mean we now get the other Cook? 

How do you figure? His injury doesn't help the salary cap.

[Draconator]

Hines was important to the return game. Was on the fringe at the RB position.

 

This is terrible for him. I hope he comes back better than ever, no matter where he lands 

[Solomon Grundy]

27 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Welcome back, heart palpitations every time we return a kick.

There's always Micah Hyde. He's my nitro glycerin when it comes to punts

[Don Otreply]

Faaaaak, that sucks, 

 

kinda takes care of the over abundance of RBs on the roster, now we just need a kick returner…, maybe one of our 4,5,6 position receivers can fill the role…

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

 

For all the talk about RB value......his was terrible but there was no dead money if the Bills walked.   The Bills negotiated it down but took a decent dead cap if they moved on which was/is not going to happen. My opinion of how Beane handled the redo of his contract was that he overpaid and was trying to justify the trade of the draft pick a little.  This sucks for Hines so I do understand the human value.  But Hines is the top paid RB on the team and he is 3rd or fourth string....with returnability.  

It appears that the Bills would suffer a $1.5M dead cap while gaining $2M in cap if they were to cut him. That's really not much of a dead cap. Now, I think they will more than likely just IR him...but being he was injured working out away from team activities may open the door for a release.

[NewEra]

Sigh-

[Gregg]

Nate Geary on Twitter: "I wonder how Ken Dorsey was planning to use Hines this year. Was it going to be different from last year? They signed Damien Harris and one would think he’s in line for RB2 duties. At best Hines was going to be KR/PR and RB3. Not sure there’s an immediate replacement needed." / Twitter

[2003Contenders]

Lat Murray more likely to make it onto the final roster now, I suspect.

[GunnerBill]

We don't have a returner. 

[Solomon Grundy]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

And the Madden Curse takes it’s first victim.

Hopefully ONLY

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Harty does both kick and punt returns.  Hines injury might have secured him a place on the final roster.

Edited July 24, 2023 by The Wiz

[Beast]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Some people in this thread are really downplaying that.

 

I think this is a bigger loss than most realize.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Harty could slot in there. And I'm sure some guys will come available as the preseason ends. Not worried just yet.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

Nate Geary on Twitter: "I wonder how Ken Dorsey was planning to use Hines this year. Was it going to be different from last year? They signed Damien Harris and one would think he’s in line for RB2 duties. At best Hines was going to be KR/PR and RB3. Not sure there’s an immediate replacement needed." / Twitter

My thoughts is it clears a jumbled backfield a little. Daboll and Dorsey struggled finding a right way to use RBs. Hurts depth though if Cook goes down. Harris isn’t the same type of receiving RB.

 

 

 

 

[Simon Says]

There are a number of backs still available and several have return experience. 

With the change of kickoff rules, and the presence of Harty and Shakir, Bills return game should be okay. 

I feel bad for Hines as I hoped he would be more involved in the offense. 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Beast said:

If you think players are going to give up the opportunity to return the ball in the field of play to fair catch it and take it at the 25 you are nuts.

 

The best returners in the game are taking it out from 5 yards deep quite often.

 

I dunno what you mean by "quite often".   Are there stats on this somewhere?  Would love to see.

 

Let's look at Nyheim Hines.  He had 2 kickoff return TDs against the Pats for 96 yds and 101 yds.  Obviously he made a decision to run instead of fair catch, but neither were from "5 yards deep".  A nit, perhaps.

 

But look at the big picture.  Hines returned kicks for us in 7 games. In 4 of those games (including the Pats game) his average return yards were >25 y/rt.  In 3 of those games, it was less.  But in 2 of those games, it was 20 or 19 yds.  So obviously, the way he was coached is "run it out if you think you can get at least back to the 20." 

 

Now it's gonna be "catch it and take it out only if you think you can get at least to the 25".  There were ~40 players with >10 KR in the NFL last season.  Only 12 averaged >25 yds, and of those 12, 2 averaged 25.5

 

So it changes the way players will be coached. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Harty was a Pro Bowler with the Saints.

Edited July 24, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Harty does both kick and punt returns.  Hines injury might have secured him a place on the final roster.

Harty's contract secured him a place on the roster. 

[hondo in seattle]

I feel bad for the kid.

 

And while the RB room was crowded, I did think he'd get some reps on offense and make a contribution with his speed and pass-catching ability. 

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Harty could slot in there. And I'm sure some guys will come available as the preseason ends. Not worried just yet.

Seems like the logical choice. Maybe Cook can also return kicks if the need arises.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Harty obviously.

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Seems like the logical choice. Maybe Cook can also return kicks if the need arises.

Shakir as a punt returner also makes sense. Hyde, but I hope not.

[BigAl2526]

His primary value to the Bills would have been as a returner.  He would have had relatively few carries as a running back.  I imagine the Bills will look for a free agent who could fill that role and has a little speed.  There are probably some guys out there who could do it, though obviously less talented than Hines.

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno what you mean by "quite often". 

 

Let's look at Nyheim Hines.  He had 2 kickoff return TDs against the Pats for 96 yds and 101 yds.  Obviously he made a decision to run instead of fair catch, but neither were from "5 yards deep".  A nit, perhaps.

 

But look at the big picture.  Hines returned kicks for us in 7 games. In 4 of those games (including the Pats game) his average return yards were >25 y/rt.  In 3 of those games, it was less.  But in 2 of those games, it was 20 or 19 yds.  So obviously, the way he's gonna be coached is "run it out if you think you can get at least back to the 20." 

 

Now it's gonna be "catch it and take it out only if you think you can get at least to the 25".  There were ~40 players with >10 KR in the NFL last season.  Only 12 averaged >25 yds, and of those 12, 2 averaged 25.5

 

So it changes the way players will be coached. 

It won’t change the best. You take your chances with good returners. So what if he gets tackled at the 18.

 

Remember Andre Roberts? That guy was a threat to being it out no matter where he caught the ball because he was a good returner.

[Don Otreply]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Harty/Shakir/Hyde…. Though I don’t want Harty back there, he might be even worse/more of a risk than McKenzie returning kicks.

I’ve read he has been a good returner, we of course will see, won’t we…