McDermott & Beane Extended Through 2027

[newcam2012]

46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The losses in the playoffs under McBean are too small of a sample size at this point (as our the wins).  He's 4-3 since Allen became elite in 2020. 

 

In basketball it's more of a fair argument that a great regular season coach can't get it done in the playoffs because it's a seven game series.  If a bad break bounces your way or you have an off day you still have six games to win four.  If your the better team and lose four out of seven coaching changes should be made even if that coach had a great regular season. 

 

Single elimination in the NFL makes for great playoff games but they often will let the worse team advance.  Which is why the best shot for a Super Bowl is simply getting a playoff spot year after year hoping you can cash in on one of those lottery tickets.  I know this same argument has been hashed out on this thread ad nauseum but the basketball comparison doesn't hold water imo.  

Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. 

 

Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. 

 

Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. 

 

Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. 

 

Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. 

 

With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ...

 

 

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. 

 

Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. 

 

Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. 

 

Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. 

 

Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. 

 

With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ...

 

 

Even in college football it took Harbaugh five years just to beat Ohio State.  There was tremendous pressure to can him but Michigan's patience eventually was rewarded.  We only have five years (not six) of playoff experience to draw on over McDermott and he's 4-5.  If he was 0-5 or 1-5 then he should be shown the door.  I strongly believe that you can get better at your job and McDermott has shown me enough growth as a head coach over the years that I believe he'll figure it out next post season.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Alright, done talking to you. They've been a disappointment in the playoffs in general. You think differently, that's your business. 

So it’s brought up to you that they’ve made it past the wildcard round and now you don’t wanna play anymore
 

Sorry if your feelings are hurt

[LeGOATski]

25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. 

 

Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. 

 

Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. 

 

Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. 

 

Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. 

 

With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ...

 

 

Absolutely demolishing the Pats. They were so on point that I got cut and bled out onto my couch at home.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Even in college football it took Harbaugh five years just to beat Ohio State.  There was tremendous pressure to can him but Michigan's patience eventually was rewarded.  We only have five years (not six) of playoff experience to draw on over McDermott and he's 4-5.  If he was 0-5 or 1-5 then he should be shown the door.  I strongly believe that you can get better at your job and McDermott has shown me enough growth as a head coach over the years that I believe he'll figure it out next post season.

"I believe he'll figure it out next post season." 

 

That says it all right there. 

 

Hope you are right. 

[Doc Brown]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

"I believe he'll figure it out next post season." 

 

That says it all right there. 

 

Hope you are right. 

I mean.  I do have a time machine fwiw.

[newcam2012]

25 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Absolutely demolishing the Pats. They were so on point that I got cut and bled out onto my couch at home.

That was fun to watch! 

[Dr. Who]

52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So it’s brought up to you that they’ve made it past the wildcard round and now you don’t wanna play anymore
 

Sorry if your feelings are hurt

I know they have advanced beyond the Wild Card round, but they have not consistently done well in the playoffs. They need to do better or they will be a disappointment in terms of the potential of the talent on the team. That is my "global" sense of it and your petty jibes don't alter a thing. I don't mind dialogue with folks who disagree with me. I do mind interacting with individuals of your temperament. My feelings are not hurt. I am annoyed by your attitude.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

We talked about it a lot during the drought…the 1st coach to break the drought would be so revered that they would be getting a blank check on their time in buffalo.

 

It’s Buffalo, baby!

 

you knew it was coming.  It cAme.  Now we roll with it.

 

Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead?  ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round?  

 

Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.”  

 

We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress.  This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate.  

 

 

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I know they have advanced beyond the Wild Card round, but they have not consistently done well in the playoffs. They need to do better or they will be a disappointment in terms of the potential of the talent on the team. That is my "global" sense of it and your petty jibes don't alter a thing. I don't mind dialogue with folks who disagree with me. I do mind interacting with individuals of your temperament. My feelings are not hurt. I am annoyed by your attitude.

Everybody wants to make the Super Bowl just because people think that McDermott has done a good job doesn’t mean that we don’t know that we haven’t made it all the way

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead?  ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round?  

 

Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.”  

 

We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress.  This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate.  

 

 

You are exactly one of those posters that I am talking about. Do you think that progress is linear

 

You mess with this coaching and we could easily go backwards because they would bring in their own schemes. They would have to be learned all over again.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ...

 

That's a question that I keep asking myself.  The only answers provided are "stability" and "consistency."  

 

Well, I'm not sure we need to be more consistent, rather, we need to break the current mold and exceed its output come playoff time.  

 

As to "stability," WTH does that even mean other than a feel good term for what in essence ultimately seems to translate to doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.  

 

Once again, we had the 2021 Chiefs' playoff game won, and likely would have beaten the Rams in the Super Bowl for our first Championship and Lombardi trophy.  The one single person that prevented it was the one that everyone's placing their faith in.  He singlehandedly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  

 

That's not even disputable, yet people simply ignore it as if it's entirely irrelevant.  

 

 

[Kwai San]

On 6/23/2023 at 10:05 AM, JGMcD2 said:

This just isn’t true 🤦🏻

 

And his sage wisdom comes with 250ish posts here on TBD........good grief.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Everybody wants to make the Super Bowl just because people think that McDermott has done a good job doesn’t mean that we don’t know that we haven’t made it all the way

You are exactly one of those posters that I am talking about. Do you think that progress is linear

 

You mess with this coaching and we could easily go backwards because they would bring in their own schemes. They would have to be learned all over again.

 

Honestly, with Allen & Diggs alone, and with increased utilization of a running game that we are bottom-dwelling in, I fail to see how most coaches wouldn't make the playoffs regularly.  As to the regular season record and seed, who cares.  The entire isn't isn't the regular season, which by implication you cite as the seeming standard from which not to regress.  

 

Otherwise, no, I don't possibly see how we would do worse in the playoffs.  IMO Saleh, McDaniel, Belichick, all, to start, would have won us a Championship in 2021.  

 

Think otherwise, but in response to your question, "do I think progress is linear," apart from not really understanding what you're asking, I think that there's been zero pattern of improvement regarding coaching on McD's watch, none, nada, even as Allen's gotten better every season, or perhaps particularly in light of that.  If I understand you correctly, you're implying that there's not constant improvement from season to season.   But there most certainly should be a trend upward in general if there truly is improvement, even if only in the 2-steps forward, 1-step backwards mode.  

 

This whole "made the playoffs" stuff is superficiality at its finest.  Apart from the New England game, you cannot name one playoff game of the other 8 whereby both the O and D showed up and both brought their A-game.  And in that game we were facing a rookie QB with receivers that would have qualified as our depth WRs, and coached by a coach that also has zero wherewithal as to how offenses are efficiently run, so why would that even have been significant in this way.  That's problematic for any coach that's 6 seasons deep with an ever worsening record of playoff futility.  

 

I can see the argument if we hammered Skylar Thompson's Fins, in our own house, and then played a tight game down to the wire vs. Cincy by simply lost, but the opposite is true, Skylar Thompson nearly beat Josh Allen, IN Buffalo, and Cincy handed us our a$$e$.  Our last playoff game prior to that, we had the AFC won and could have prematurely celebrated our Lombardi, but McD singlehandedly gave the game away.  

 

So upon what do we place out future playoff hopes on?  It's anything but improvement.  

 

Fans continually crying about not having the talent is wearing pretty thin.  I mean what, we need an All-Pro roster to win a Super Bowl?  That'd be absurd.  

 

We have the best QB by a country mile in the history of this franchise, and we cannot advance past the Divisional Round more than once, while giving the season away on a silver platter immediately following that, and which Levy's team did 5 times in his first seven seasons.  

 

It's going to be an interesting season to be sure.  

 

 

[Magox]

I’m genuinely excited to see what McD can do on the defense and what a year 2 Dorsey can do.

 

They both deserved the extension, this team with Josh Allen under this leadership will always be in the hunt.   They just got to get over that hump.

 

It took Andy Reid 11-12 seasons making the playoffs to win a SB.   He was known at one time for not being able to take a team all the way.

 

 

[Radar]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Wow. This speaks volumes.

Please elaborate kind sir.

[Einstein]

14 minutes ago, Radar said:

Please elaborate kind sir.

 

You would rather be the bridesmaid for a long time but never the bride… I just don’t understand that rational.

[GerstAusGosheim]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

It took Andy Reid 11-12 seasons making the playoffs to win a SB. 

No, it took Patrick Mahomes. The greatest QB of this generation – which McNabb wasn't. This whole...don't give up on Sean, just look at Andy line of thinking, is stupid. It's Patrick Mahomes, the guy Sean gave to Andy. If that doesn't happen, Andy is still just old Andy.

[ColoradoBills]

Well, it's comforting to see that nothing has changed on the board during my break.

 

The way I see it, Terry Pegula owns the team and seems satisfied (for the near future) in Beane and McDermott.

I kind of feel the same way.  For all the fans that hate the move, I can't change your minds, so I won't try.

 

Just a comment on some of the points made in this thread.

 

Andy Reid did take all those seasons to win a SB.  Maybe it's only because he has an elite QB.  I'm of the opinion the Mahomes could

win without Reid as long as he had a decent OC.  Just my opinion and I'm not taking anything away from Andy.

 

It's true that Sean Payton won his only SB in his 4th year.  It has been followed by never winning another for 11 seasons WITH an ELITE QB.

so, if the criteria for HCs is they must win in the first X number of years, what's the criteria of these ELITE HCs who have won only 1 SB for

consecutive SB misses before they are retreads or "one hit wonders"?  Something to ponder.

 

All that matters is this season Beane and McDermott are running the show.  I'm going to watch to see how they and the players do.

Go Bills!

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead?  ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round?  

 

Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.”  

 

We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress.  This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate.  

 

 

Buffalo as a Sports Town has no Hardware. We have no titles.  No established championship culture.

 

So the fans of Buffalo, we have no great standard of the past to hold the modern teams to.

 

Not that holding modern teams to last teams is some guarantee receipt for success.  But it does expose that our fans and our community doesn’t really have any experience in recognizing when winning isn’t really as successful as it could be otherwise.

 

which probably (if they all don’t get much better and win) will lead to Bills current regime being here much longer than they should.

[JohninMinn.]

High aspirations low expectations. Formula for a peaceful Buffalo fan experience.

[Radar]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

You would rather be the bridesmaid for a long time but never the bride… I just don’t understand that rational.

Don't understand the comparison. Nice saying but sports and marriage? Really. Sounds good but not the same thing.

[RunTheBall]

I’m really glad McD is taking over the D. I think it will answer a lot of questions going forward and given both KC and Cinci have more talent on O, we need to be able to stop them a few times during a game. I think coaching makes a big difference in the playoffs and we’ve definitely been outcoached a lot. Dorsey got absolutely destroyed by Anarumo. Frazier was outcoached in almost every playoff game except NE. Dorsey has a year under his belt, and now McD is calling the plays. We will learn a lot.

 

I agree with extensions. I’m one of those guys that would infuriate those who want McBeane fired because I agree with Beane when he says he wants to be competitive for the long term. I’m one of those guys who thinks a lot of luck needs to fall into place to win the Super Bowl and I’m not willing to throw away coaches who’ve been to the playoffs nearly every year they’ve been here. As long as they are learning from their mistakes and not repeating them then I’m willing to give them time to grow and improve. Why people think players can get bettter from year to year but coaches/GM’s can’t is beyond me. 

[Utah John]

This year should be another great year for the Bills.  They've upgraded in the areas of obvious deficiencies, several key players are back from injury, and the FA losses are not that important or hard to recover from.

 

But, it's going to get bumpy soon, or at least it might do so, in 2024 and 2025.  Key players are going to be getting old (Hyde, Poyer, Diggs, and Miller) and it's going to be hard to bring in good replacements until they're gone and off the books.  Beane is going to have to up his game with drafting, to find replacements that can step in quickly.  If that doesn't happen, a lot of wheels are going to come off at the same time.  

 

The question is whether the Bills can rebound from the valley that awaits, or slide back down into long-term mediocrity.  It will be important that McBeane not feel tempted to splurge on short-term fixes that will eat up salary cap space in the future.  They did this with Miller, and the jury is still out whether that turns out to be a good move in the long run.  McBeane generally have NOT done this, partly because they feel safe in their jobs and know they'll be evaluated by the long-term success of the team.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Well, it's comforting to see that nothing has changed on the board during my break.

 

The way I see it, Terry Pegula owns the team and seems satisfied (for the near future) in Beane and McDermott.

I kind of feel the same way.  For all the fans that hate the move, I can't change your minds, so I won't try.

 

Just a comment on some of the points made in this thread.

 

Andy Reid did take all those seasons to win a SB.  Maybe it's only because he has an elite QB.  I'm of the opinion the Mahomes could

win without Reid as long as he had a decent OC.  Just my opinion and I'm not taking anything away from Andy.

 

It's true that Sean Payton won his only SB in his 4th year.  It has been followed by never winning another for 11 seasons WITH an ELITE QB.

so, if the criteria for HCs is they must win in the first X number of years, what's the criteria of these ELITE HCs who have won only 1 SB for

consecutive SB misses before they are retreads or "one hit wonders"?  Something to ponder.

 

All that matters is this season Beane and McDermott are running the show.  I'm going to watch to see how they and the players do.

Go Bills!

You hush up.  The narrative here is that we missed our chance to get Sean Payton.  At least Ben Johnson is still available and some people think he is really cute.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Honestly, with Allen & Diggs alone, and with increased utilization of a running game that we are bottom-dwelling in, I fail to see how most coaches wouldn't make the playoffs regularly.  As to the regular season record and seed, who cares.  The entire isn't isn't the regular season, which by implication you cite as the seeming standard from which not to regress.  

 

Otherwise, no, I don't possibly see how we would do worse in the playoffs.  IMO Saleh, McDaniel, Belichick, all, to start, would have won us a Championship in 2021.  

 

Think otherwise, but in response to your question, "do I think progress is linear," apart from not really understanding what you're asking, I think that there's been zero pattern of improvement regarding coaching on McD's watch, none, nada, even as Allen's gotten better every season, or perhaps particularly in light of that.  If I understand you correctly, you're implying that there's not constant improvement from season to season.   But there most certainly should be a trend upward in general if there truly is improvement, even if only in the 2-steps forward, 1-step backwards mode.  

 

This whole "made the playoffs" stuff is superficiality at its finest.  Apart from the New England game, you cannot name one playoff game of the other 8 whereby both the O and D showed up and both brought their A-game.  And in that game we were facing a rookie QB with receivers that would have qualified as our depth WRs, and coached by a coach that also has zero wherewithal as to how offenses are efficiently run, so why would that even have been significant in this way.  That's problematic for any coach that's 6 seasons deep with an ever worsening record of playoff futility.  

 

I can see the argument if we hammered Skylar Thompson's Fins, in our own house, and then played a tight game down to the wire vs. Cincy by simply lost, but the opposite is true, Skylar Thompson nearly beat Josh Allen, IN Buffalo, and Cincy handed us our a$$e$.  Our last playoff game prior to that, we had the AFC won and could have prematurely celebrated our Lombardi, but McD singlehandedly gave the game away.  

 

So upon what do we place out future playoff hopes on?  It's anything but improvement.  

 

Fans continually crying about not having the talent is wearing pretty thin.  I mean what, we need an All-Pro roster to win a Super Bowl?  That'd be absurd.  

 

We have the best QB by a country mile in the history of this franchise, and we cannot advance past the Divisional Round more than once, while giving the season away on a silver platter immediately following that, and which Levy's team did 5 times in his first seven seasons.  

 

It's going to be an interesting season to be sure.  

 

 

Awesome post! I couldn't agree more. Well said. 

 

I just don't know how other Bills fans fail to see the logic and evidence in your post. 

 

Is it denial, blind optimism, or something else? 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

No, it took Patrick Mahomes. The greatest QB of this generation – which McNabb wasn't. This whole...don't give up on Sean, just look at Andy line of thinking, is stupid. It's Patrick Mahomes, the guy Sean gave to Andy. If that doesn't happen, Andy is still just old Andy.

Agree 100%. Take a look at how the Patriots coach has done since Brady departed. 

 

Look at how Tampa did with Brady. 

 

Maybe it's time for Allen to shine. Oops! he did and it was ripped away from him in 13 seconds. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

I’m genuinely excited to see what McD can do on the defense and what a year 2 Dorsey can do.

 

They both deserved the extension, this team with Josh Allen under this leadership will always be in the hunt.   They just got to get over that hump.

 

It took Andy Reid 11-12 seasons making the playoffs to win a SB.   He was known at one time for not being able to take a team all the way.

 

 

I'm more curious than excited. Frankly, I have no clue or idea how Dorsey is going to do. He certainly needs to improve and improve not marginally. It's a huge question mark going into a season where the Bills are trying to win it all. 

 

McD certainly comes with high expectations. The Bills defense has not preformed well in the playoffs. McD as a defensive HC certainly isn't shielded from criticism. I fail to put all the blame on Fraizer. No way can one think McD was totally hands off when Fraizer was aboard. It was McD defense too. 

 

I'm excited about the upcoming season but it comes with lots of trepidation. 

 

Go Bills!

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Buffalo as a Sports Town has no Hardware. We have no titles.  No established championship culture.

 

So the fans of Buffalo, we have no great standard of the past to hold the modern teams to.

 

Not that holding modern teams to last teams is some guarantee receipt for success.  But it does expose that our fans and our community doesn’t really have any experience in recognizing when winning isn’t really as successful as it could be otherwise.

 

which probably (if they all don’t get much better and win) will lead to Bills current regime being here much longer than they should.

Really nice input. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m really glad McD is taking over the D. I think it will answer a lot of questions going forward and given both KC and Cinci have more talent on O, we need to be able to stop them a few times during a game. I think coaching makes a big difference in the playoffs and we’ve definitely been outcoached a lot. Dorsey got absolutely destroyed by Anarumo. Frazier was outcoached in almost every playoff game except NE. Dorsey has a year under his belt, and now McD is calling the plays. We will learn a lot.

 

I agree with extensions. I’m one of those guys that would infuriate those who want McBeane fired because I agree with Beane when he says he wants to be competitive for the long term. I’m one of those guys who thinks a lot of luck needs to fall into place to win the Super Bowl and I’m not willing to throw away coaches who’ve been to the playoffs nearly every year they’ve been here. As long as they are learning from their mistakes and not repeating them then I’m willing to give them time to grow and improve. Why people think players can get bettter from year to year but coaches/GM’s can’t is beyond me. 

I think you are being way too kind to McD. You call out Dorsey and Fraizer for their playoff failure.

 

Yet, you seemingly transition to total support for McD. Who was the head coach during those playoff losses? Who was the head coach getting out coached and out classed the last two years and more? Who blew the game in 13 seconds? 

 

The resounding answer is McD. Sure he can improve and hopefully he does. However, McD absolutely deserves to be hammered negatively for his continued playoff failures. Of course that won't be popular here. 

 

Instead, the owner gives him a blank check and a seal of approval. Very perplexing. 

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Awesome post! I couldn't agree more. Well said. 

 

I just don't know how other Bills fans fail to see the logic and evidence in your post. 

 

Is it denial, blind optimism, or something else? 

 

Well, it is what it is.  I understand it, obviously I don't agree, but different minds work differently, some are more emotional, some are more/less analytical, some are more/less skeptical, etc.  

 

We'll simply see how it plays out, we've beaten this thing to death 9-ways-to-Sunday and then some.  

 

For me, at the end of the day, the top five coaches on this team and the decision-makers are essentially the ones that ran Carolina under Rivera from 2011-2016, and look at those results.  6 seasons, 3 playoff appeareances, 2 Divisional Round losses, the first one as the #2 Seed, and one trip to the Super Bowl where McD's D was outplayed and where he allowed an offense led by a QB that had 9 TDs, 17 INTs, and a rating of 67.9 on the season, beat him.  The team that made it to the Super Bowl that season had the league's best Win %, most Wins, and largest Point Differential, and was the favorite to win it all.  But shhhh, don't tell anyone, they also had the easiest schedule in franchise history to date.  

 

McD, our OC, and all three Senior Assistants are who are going to be making the decisions for this team come this fall. 

 

The reason why all four are coaching here?  Because three of the four, Shula, Holcomb, and Washington at the ages of 58, 52, and 53 have been completely unable to hold down roles as Coordinators elsewhere much less head coaching positions with any significant degree of success.  So they all end up here.  Is that inspiring?  Yeah yeah, McD's hiring people he's familiar with.  I'd prefer people that are competent and have proven something, not a one of them has, least of all Dorsey, who's competence will be required if we're to make any progress this season and improve.  

 

Then, Dorsey at the age of 42.  These guys under McD are supposed to inspire us?  ... We'll see how this works out, but I suspect not well at all.  

 

And is it coincidence that now that McD has "outsiders" Daboll and Frasier out of the mix, that he hasn't assigned a Defensive Coordinator?  Smacks of a desire to control it all to me, but that'd be applying common sense and logic.  

 

There's no sense in arguing this anymore, we're all hoping for the same thing, some of us simply dread another five seasons of imaginary improvement and offseason moves that were fine going into the prior season but after it were problematic, and with McD further hiring people that have zero track record of any sustained success simply because of his relationships with them, which is worthless when it comes to winning.  At some point it becomes the boy-who-cried-wolf scenario as well.  We've reached that point IMO.  

 

At the end of the season if we finish 2nd or even possibly 3rd in the division, lose a Wild-Card or D-Round game, then we'll have at least four more seasons to look forward to.  If not, great, people can hammer me all they want for me being wrong, it'll fall on deaf ears as I'm enjoying the celebration of a Super Bowl win.  

 

My money goes on further underachievement however.  I don't see that cast of coaches doing a damn thing in the way of improvement.  There is no Rivera Coaching Tree and they did absolutely nothing noteworthy in Carolina except underachieve then too.  

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, it is what it is.  I understand it, obviously I don't agree, but different minds work differently, some are more emotional, some are more/less analytical, some are more/less skeptical, etc.  

 

We'll simply see how it plays out, we've beaten this thing to death 9-ways-to-Sunday and then some.  

 

For me, at the end of the day, the top five coaches on this team and the decision-makers are essentially the ones that ran Carolina under Rivera from 2011-2016, and look at those results.  6 seasons, 3 playoff appeareances, 2 Divisional Round losses, the first one as the #2 Seed, and one trip to the Super Bowl where McD's D was outplayed and where he allowed an offense led by a QB that had 9 TDs, 17 INTs, and a rating of 67.9 on the season, beat him.  The team that made it to the Super Bowl that season had the league's best Win %, most Wins, and largest Point Differential, and was the favorite to win it all.  But shhhh, don't tell anyone, they also had the easiest schedule in franchise history to date.  

 

McD, our OC, and all three Senior Assistants are who are going to be making the decisions for this team come this fall. 

 

The reason why all four are coaching here?  Because three of the four, Shula, Holcomb, and Washington at the ages of 58, 52, and 53 have been completely unable to hold down roles as Coordinators elsewhere much less head coaching positions with any significant degree of success.  So they all end up here.  Is that inspiring?  Yeah yeah, McD's hiring people he's familiar with.  I'd prefer people that are competent and have proven something, not a one of them has, least of all Dorsey, who's competence will be required if we're to make any progress this season and improve.  

 

Then, Dorsey at the age of 42.  These guys under McD are supposed to inspire us?  ... We'll see how this works out, but I suspect not well at all.  

 

And is it coincidence that now that McD has "outsiders" Daboll and Frasier out of the mix, that he hasn't assigned a Defensive Coordinator?  Smacks of a desire to control it all to me, but that'd be applying common sense and logic.  

 

There's no sense in arguing this anymore, we're all hoping for the same thing, some of us simply dread another five seasons of imaginary improvement and offseason moves that were fine going into the prior season but after it were problematic, and with McD further hiring people that have zero track record of any sustained success simply because of his relationships with them, which is worthless when it comes to winning.  At some point it becomes the boy-who-cried-wolf scenario as well.  We've reached that point IMO.  

 

At the end of the season if we finish 2nd or even possibly 3rd in the division, lose a Wild-Card or D-Round game, then we'll have at least four more seasons to look forward to.  If not, great, people can hammer me all they want for me being wrong, it'll fall on deaf ears as I'm enjoying the celebration of a Super Bowl win.  

 

My money goes on further underachievement however.  I don't see that cast of coaches doing a damn thing in the way of improvement.  There is no Rivera Coaching Tree and they did absolutely nothing noteworthy in Carolina except underachieve then too.  

 

 

Another manifesto I see. You and Newcam should get a private chat room together

[oldmanfan]

8 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Honestly, with Allen & Diggs alone, and with increased utilization of a running game that we are bottom-dwelling in, I fail to see how most coaches wouldn't make the playoffs regularly.  As to the regular season record and seed, who cares.  The entire isn't isn't the regular season, which by implication you cite as the seeming standard from which not to regress.  

 

Otherwise, no, I don't possibly see how we would do worse in the playoffs.  IMO Saleh, McDaniel, Belichick, all, to start, would have won us a Championship in 2021.  

 

Think otherwise, but in response to your question, "do I think progress is linear," apart from not really understanding what you're asking, I think that there's been zero pattern of improvement regarding coaching on McD's watch, none, nada, even as Allen's gotten better every season, or perhaps particularly in light of that.  If I understand you correctly, you're implying that there's not constant improvement from season to season.   But there most certainly should be a trend upward in general if there truly is improvement, even if only in the 2-steps forward, 1-step backwards mode.  

 

This whole "made the playoffs" stuff is superficiality at its finest.  Apart from the New England game, you cannot name one playoff game of the other 8 whereby both the O and D showed up and both brought their A-game.  And in that game we were facing a rookie QB with receivers that would have qualified as our depth WRs, and coached by a coach that also has zero wherewithal as to how offenses are efficiently run, so why would that even have been significant in this way.  That's problematic for any coach that's 6 seasons deep with an ever worsening record of playoff futility.  

 

I can see the argument if we hammered Skylar Thompson's Fins, in our own house, and then played a tight game down to the wire vs. Cincy by simply lost, but the opposite is true, Skylar Thompson nearly beat Josh Allen, IN Buffalo, and Cincy handed us our a$$e$.  Our last playoff game prior to that, we had the AFC won and could have prematurely celebrated our Lombardi, but McD singlehandedly gave the game away.  

 

So upon what do we place out future playoff hopes on?  It's anything but improvement.  

 

Fans continually crying about not having the talent is wearing pretty thin.  I mean what, we need an All-Pro roster to win a Super Bowl?  That'd be absurd.  

 

We have the best QB by a country mile in the history of this franchise, and we cannot advance past the Divisional Round more than once, while giving the season away on a silver platter immediately following that, and which Levy's team did 5 times in his first seven seasons.  

 

It's going to be an interesting season to be sure.  

 

 

Jim Kelly is a HOF QB that took a team to 4 straight Super Bowls.  I love Josh but to say he is the best QB the franchise has ever had by a country mile is absurd and shows your willingness to say anything to bash the current coaching staff.

[GoBills808]

31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Jim Kelly is a HOF QB that took a team to 4 straight Super Bowls.  I love Josh but to say he is the best QB the franchise has ever had by a country mile is absurd and shows your willingness to say anything to bash the current coaching staff.

By a country mile 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

By a country mile 

Ridiculous.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

And is it coincidence that now that McD has "outsiders" Daboll and Frasier out of the mix, that he hasn't assigned a Defensive Coordinator?  Smacks of a desire to control it all to me, but that'd be applying common sense and logic.  

 

 

I don't agree with much of the rest of your post but as you know I always try and be fair and this para I do agree with. McDermott definitely has a "control freak" element to his personality (not necessarily a bad thing a lot of coaches do) but I think he does basically have his people in all the key positions now - GM, AHC, OC, senior defensive assistant. He has known Leslie forever of course as well but behind the quiet, calm demenour Leslie is made of steel and I think he would absolutely push back behind closed doors. We know there was tension at the end between he and Dabes.

 

One thing I should say for Dorsey is that he actually did pretty well for a first timer last year and he was Daboll's first choice to go with him as OC in New York (I think he had two other teams - Jags and Bears - wanting to make him OC at that point too so he was legitimately one of the next cabs off the rank league wide). So there must be more to him than just being a McDermott patsie. Hopefully he has learnt frome some of the mistakes he did make last year.

[GoBills808]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Success in football is a multi factorial process.  The analysis provided here is a good example of correlation not equaling causation.  

 

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Jim Kelly is a HOF QB that took a team to 4 straight Super Bowls.  I love Josh but to say he is the best QB the franchise has ever had by a country mile is absurd and shows your willingness to say anything to bash the current coaching staff.

Giggles

[oldmanfan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

 

Giggles

Dismissing a first ballot HOF QB as miles behind Allen is nuts.  I can only assume you are too young to have watched him.  

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Another manifesto I see. You and Newcam should get a private chat room together

Great minds think alike. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Ridiculous.

I think Allen is physically more gifted then Kelly. 

 

However, there's no way you can put Allen ahead of Kelly. It's just an unfair comparasion. 

 

Kelly is a hall of famer whose career has ended. Allen hasn't even sniffed what Kelly has accomplished nor has he played enough football. 

 

It would be Kelly hands down for me if I had to pick one right now based on what we know. 

 

The major reasons are I knew Kelly would get It done when the game was on the line. I recall thinking over and over please give Kelly a chance. Get the ball back. Most often Kelly was able to be successful. I just don't have the same level of confidence in Allen. That's not a knock on Allen as it is a compliment to Kelly. 

 

Secondly, Kelly made four straight SB appearances. Should have a ring but wide right still haunts many Bills fans. That feat is quite remarkable despite falling short. Allen had to earn his way past Kelly. With time hopefully he does. He's not there yet. 

[RunTheBall]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I think you are being way too kind to McD. You call out Dorsey and Fraizer for their playoff failure.

 

Yet, you seemingly transition to total support for McD. Who was the head coach during those playoff losses? Who was the head coach getting out coached and out classed the last two years and more? Who blew the game in 13 seconds? 

 

The resounding answer is McD. Sure he can improve and hopefully he does. However, McD absolutely deserves to be hammered negatively for his continued playoff failures. Of course that won't be popular here. 

 

Instead, the owner gives him a blank check and a seal of approval. Very perplexing. 

It’s very simple newcam - I still give McD a lot of goodwill and slack for taking one of the worst franchises in the league, a perennial loser for 17 years, and turning us into Super Bowl contenders in a couple years. It was very apparent before Josh was drafted that the franchise was improving quickly. Has McD made mistakes? Absolutely. The entire team is built on continuous improvement, being “the best version of yourself”, and you can’t tell me that McD can’t learn from his mistakes like players do. You are one of those “what have you done for me lately” fans and that’s fine, I’m just on the other side of the spectrum. I’ve been through the bad, the ok, the horrible, the Super Bowl years, the drought and now back to consistent playoff contention. I’m not one of those guys who thinks the season is a failure if you don’t win the Super Bowl. I enjoy watching meaningful football in December and January, I had too many years where that was a pipe dream. So yeah I’m horribly disappointed when we get bounced from the playoffs earlier than expected but I then don’t start yelling “burn it all down” like many on here (not saying you hold that opinion).

 

 

[newcam2012]

24 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

It’s very simple newcam - I still give McD a lot of goodwill and slack for taking one of the worst franchises in the league, a perennial loser for 17 years, and turning us into Super Bowl contenders in a couple years. It was very apparent before Josh was drafted that the franchise was improving quickly. Has McD made mistakes? Absolutely. The entire team is built on continuous improvement, being “the best version of yourself”, and you can’t tell me that McD can’t learn from his mistakes like players do. You are one of those “what have you done for me lately” fans and that’s fine, I’m just on the other side of the spectrum. I’ve been through the bad, the ok, the horrible, the Super Bowl years, the drought and now back to consistent playoff contention. I’m not one of those guys who thinks the season is a failure if you don’t win the Super Bowl. I enjoy watching meaningful football in December and January, I had too many years where that was a pipe dream. So yeah I’m horribly disappointed when we get bounced from the playoffs earlier than expected but I then don’t start yelling “burn it all down” like many on here (not saying you hold that opinion).

 

 

That's more than a fair way of seeing things. 

 

Our eyes are a little different but I totally respect what you are saying. 👍