What does our O-Line look like now?

[QLBillsFan]

Saw a pic of Doyle he looked super fit. Not sure he is done but he will need to make an impact this year or he might be. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Saw a pic of Doyle he looked super fit. Not sure he is done but he will need to make an impact this year or he might be. 

 

We need Tackles, and he proved his worth playing through that ACL in the Miami game. Unless we bring in another vet, I think he sticks around.

[hondo in seattle]

35 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Bills OLine looks terrific after the draft! What was a weakness could be a strength. Good thing too because Chiefs and Bengals massively upgraded their DLine. Can’t wait until the games start!

 

I personally don't think the Bills OLine looks even 'good' let alone 'terrific.'   But I do think it looks better than last year!

[iccrewman112]

7 hours ago, LEBills said:

What is this gif from. I love it and need to know the context.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, nikuman said:

 

Depends upon the 'crumble' and 'age' factors.  I actually used 'American cheese' as the search term. 😁

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

the interior is greatly upgraded. LT Dawkins remains above average and RT Spencer Brown remains a huge ? and too often a liability in pass blocking

Draft euphoria has got me in an optimistic mood. Brown will take that next step forward next season. 👍

40 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I personally don't think the Bills OLine looks even 'good' let alone 'terrific.'   But I do think it looks better than last year!

‘Better’ is moving in the right direction!

[3rdand12]

For all the pre draft Fanbase needs

Seems McBeanes covered em

 Maybe not as perfectly as some might wish.

But between FA and draft the offense sure looks exciting to me

Dorsey in his growth year , some very good and multi skilled RBs good get some good mileage from what Beane brought in !

 And then the passing game... could be extremely dominant if balanced.

 Our O line looks much better, with depth and options

 Hoping Brown and Doyle really show this preseason and camp
 

Go Bills

[Rebel101]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:17 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Torrence - Brown

Quess    - Boettger    - Bates  - Edwards -  Doyle

(Doyle?) - (Broeker?)                                    (Gouraige?)

 

edit:

Broeker either PS, or in Boettger's spot if Beane pull's off a trade.

I dont know enough about UDFA OT Richard Gouraige yet. He might be able to replace Doyle at backup RT, and Doyle moves to backup LT. He might make the PS. He might just be camp fodder.

 

That right side could be REAL NASTY if those dudes get their stuff together and develop.

 

Or does Bates or Edwards have a chance of starting over Torrence, and McGovern plays RG?

 

 

I’d say they probably all still look alittle overweight

[Big Blitz]

It starts with the Center…..
 

Last 10 SB winning centers.
 

2023 - Chiefs - Creed Humphrey 

2022 - Rams - Bryan Allen

2021 - Bucs - Ryan Jensen

2020 - Chiefs - Austin Reiter (the 49ers choked - but their C wasn’t very good.) 

2019 - Patriots - David Andrews

2018 - Eagles - Jason Kelce

2017 - Patriots - David Andrews

2016 - Broncos - Matt Paradis 

2015 - Patriots - Brian Stork (Seahawks didn’t give it to Lynch)

2014 - Seahawks - Max Unger - should have 2; see above

2013 - Ravens - Matt Birk 

 

The 2nd most important position on offense.  

I hope Morse has 2-3 more healthy years in him he is good enough to be a SB winning center.  

 

Those thinking he could be a cap cut I would not do that.  Bates is a fine backup.  He isn’t Morse.   
 

I wonder if Broeker wil get looks there.  

[Big Blitz]

Personally I think the Bills went out and did exactly what Allen said we needed to do. 

Be more like the Chiefs.  
 

Kincaid - hope he’s elite.  Combo with Knox.  Multiple TE sets.  
 

Better and more versatile oline and better in run blocking - more physical and can still pass pro.  Obligatory *if Spencer Brown can*.   We want to pass block when we need to and run it down your throat if need be.   
 

WRs that all bring something to the table with Harty as our better version of MVS.  Diggs is to us what Hill was to them not in style but just importance.  They won without him we still have prime Diggs.  
 

Multiple RBs - Harris - Pacheco/ Cook/McKinnon.  
 

And Dorsey gets an O that probably is more suited to his strengths as a play caller. 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:21 PM, The Jokeman said:

I don't like the idea of Torrence next to Brown. 

 

 

On 4/29/2023 at 12:43 PM, GunnerBill said:

At this point if I suggested Terry Pegula at right tackle I think you'd be willing to give it a chance if it means less Spencer Brown haha.

 

Pegs is a pretty big guy...

 

On 4/29/2023 at 12:44 PM, Success said:

Brown coming through and realizing his potential could be HUGE for this line (obviously). If he can take that step, we could all of a sudden have a top 10 or even top 5 kind of line.

 

 

"Twenty bucks?"

"Fifteen bucks?"

"What do you need ten bucks for?

 

On 4/29/2023 at 12:47 PM, 947 said:

Boettger was never going to make the team in 2023. They did him right by keeping him on the team to rehab, but he is not in the plans. He was already a replacement level OG at best, and is now coming off the absolute worst injury possible for an NFL player.

 

Turf toe?

 

On 4/29/2023 at 1:29 PM, Big Blitz said:

Bills' signing of Connor McGovern named among worst free agency decisions in NFL

 

Here’s PFN’s full breakdown on McGovern’s deal he signed with the Bills:

 

"Had the Bills signed the other Connor McGovern interior offensive lineman, the one they saw twice a year for three years, the $7.5 million average annual value would make sense. He’s played at that level for a number of years now and still has some great football ahead of him.

 

But the Connor McGovern that played for the Cowboys has not been quite as successful. McGovern was a capable pass blocker last year and played that role at an above-replacement level, but he has always been an enormous liability as a run blocker. Not only that, his success as a pass protector was largely limited to one season, allowing defenders to quickly win off the snap and forcing the quarterback to scramble or get rid of the ball quickly.

 

McGovern has only had one season as a full-time starter, playing as an injury replacement in other years. In that role, he’s spectacular, and teams could do a lot worse than having him as a depth player along the interior. But as a starter making starting money, it’s a big issue — especially for a team that wants to improve its running game.

 

McGovern’s contract incurs a $3.6 million cap hit in Year 1, which is in line with his value. But after that, it explodes to a functionally guaranteed second-year cap hit of $7.5 million and hits $8 million in Year 3 — an unguaranteed year but a difficult one to cut because he would incur $4 million in dead cap space."

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/31/buffalo-bills-connor-mcgovern-worst-signings-nfl/

 

I'm getting a bad feeling about this... I wonder if it's another of those T.J. Graham, T.Y. Hilton deals...

 

 

[Bookie Man]

[Airseven]

Dawkins

Brown

Torrence

Bates/McGovern

Morse

 

Still not nearly good enough. Amazing (but at this point totally expected) they didn’t bother with tackle this off-season. 

[Manther]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:47 PM, 947 said:

Boettger was never going to make the team in 2023. They did him right by keeping him on the team to rehab, but he is not in the plans. He was already a replacement level OG at best, and is now coming off the absolute worst injury possible for an NFL player.

Before Boettger got hurt he was starting and at that time our Oline was arguably playing its best.

On 4/29/2023 at 4:39 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That is a worst case scenario. Like a Tommy Doyle playing on a blown ACL, team getting cooked alive, worst case scenario.

Disagree, when Bates has filled in at LT to start games he played quite well.

On 4/29/2023 at 4:51 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Brown is starting, Edwards is a guard.

 

 

I think that is right.  I think they will try some folks at T in the offseason to see what we have.  The following could play Tackle...

 

Bates

Edwards

Q

Doyle

 

The reality is if Brown gets hurt or is terrible one of these 4 is our starting RT or a player not on our roster.

[Manther]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:57 PM, Dopey said:

I think Bates moving back to LG will help him and Dion. Morse, Bates and Dion is a pretty good left side of a line. 

I think our best left side in previous seasons was Dawkins, Bates, Morse.

[hondo in seattle]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:47 PM, 3rdand12 said:

For all the pre draft Fanbase needs

Seems McBeanes covered em

 Maybe not as perfectly as some might wish.

But between FA and draft the offense sure looks exciting to me

Dorsey in his growth year , some very good and multi skilled RBs good get some good mileage from what Beane brought in !

 And then the passing game... could be extremely dominant if balanced.

 Our O line looks much better, with depth and options

 Hoping Brown and Doyle really show this preseason and camp
 

Go Bills

 

I mentioned this in another thread.  I was a bit depressed after the end of the season.  Not about the Cinci game so much - I'm a there's-always-next-year kind of guy.  But I saw so many holes in the roster that I thought there was no way Beane could fill them all with his meager draft and cap resources.  But, other than, MLB, he did.  It's not perfect but right now the O does look better.  

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I mentioned this in another thread.  I was a bit depressed after the end of the season.  Not about the Cinci game so much - I'm a there's-always-next-year kind of guy.  But I saw so many holes in the roster that I thought there was no way Beane could fill them all with his meager draft and cap resources.  But, other than, MLB, he did.  It's not perfect but right now the O does look better.  

 

Yea, the CIN loss was so deflating because we looked beyond deficient.  I know the mental & physical excuses are somewhat valid, but it felt like KC two years prior, where we were bullied off the field.. except this time we knew we didn't have much in the way of draft capital and FA money to fix it....

 

Except, somehow, we did....

 

IOL massively upgraded, both in starting talent and depth

 

Weaponry massively upgraded with Kincaid, Harty, Harris/Murray replacing Singletary, Morris, McKenzie/Beasley.

 

Edmunds is a loss, but with McDermott taking over the Defense and the additions of Poona Ford and Taylor Rapp, I'm far more optimistic about this defense when it matters than I was last year.  Nevermind the talent we have coming back off injury.. Von, Hyde and (essentially) Tre White.

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Yea, the CIN loss was so deflating because we looked beyond deficient.  I know the mental & physical excuses are somewhat valid, but it felt like KC two years prior, where we were bullied off the field.. except this time we knew we didn't have much in the way of draft capital and FA money to fix it....

 

Except, somehow, we did....

 

IOL massively upgraded, both in starting talent and depth

 

Weaponry massively upgraded with Kincaid, Harty, Harris/Murray replacing Singletary, Morris, McKenzie/Beasley.

 

Edmunds is a loss, but with McDermott taking over the Defense and the additions of Poona Ford and Taylor Rapp, I'm far more optimistic about this defense when it matters than I was last year.  Nevermind the talent we have coming back off injury.. Von, Hyde and (essentially) Tre White.

 

In the Cincy game, we werent so talent-deficient as much as gumption-deficient. Agreed with bullied off the field, but not because we couldnt punch back, just because we were too scared or tired to punch back. That's on coaching, imo.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I mentioned this in another thread.  I was a bit depressed after the end of the season.  Not about the Cinci game so much - I'm a there's-always-next-year kind of guy.  But I saw so many holes in the roster that I thought there was no way Beane could fill them all with his meager draft and cap resources.  But, other than, MLB, he did.  It's not perfect but right now the O does look better.  

I too am unsure about how they scheme with the players Bills have at MLB, and a little bummed it wasnt addressed to My liking in FA lol

But beyond that ? I feel much stronger going into the season. Depth especially !

[Richard Noggin]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:33 PM, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Yeah, Brown is nasty like a revolving door 

 

Obviously you've never been pressed like a panini by one of those older, heavier, hotel lobby SOBs. 

[T master]

I think this year the O line could be a huge upgrade from last year both in the run game & the passing game & although it may take some time at the beginning of the year of the players to develop the chemistry O lines need but before the mid season hits & as the move forward it will all start to jell .

 

By the end of the year & into the play offs they will get better & reach a their highest point of everything coming together when the SB rolls around .

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[billsbackto81]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:37 PM, chongli said:

 

No way Torrence is cut or traded.

Neither is McGovern

[Thurman#1]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:27 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

One of those 6 in bold will get cut or traded, my bet would be on Boettger as typically teams go with 5 interior and 4 tackles.  Or could they make a more shocking move and cut Morse?

 

Not 100% certain Torrence will start, could be Bates instead.  But if they were to cut Morse, then Torrence starts at guard and Bates at Center

 

 

Greatly doubt they will cut Morse unless serious health problems crop up.

 

If they'd wanted to cut him, they'd have done it before paying him his $1M roster bonus on March 19th. On the same day, $1.36M of his salary became guaranteed, as well.

 

 

On 4/30/2023 at 12:18 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

I personally don't think the Bills OLine looks even 'good' let alone 'terrific.'   But I do think it looks better than last year!

 

 

I disagree here.

 

Terrific, no. Good? Yeah, they do.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:29 AM, Big Blitz said:

 

Meh - the rookie drafted in RD 2 makes that salary easy to push down the depth chart to the role he probably belongs at and that’s backup Guard and a solid one.   
 

 

 

Bills' signing of Connor McGovern named among worst free agency decisions in NFL

 

Here’s PFN’s full breakdown on McGovern’s deal he signed with the Bills:

 

Had the Bills signed the other Connor McGovern interior offensive lineman, the one they saw twice a year for three years, the $7.5 million average annual value would make sense. He’s played at that level for a number of years now and still has some great football ahead of him.

 

But the Connor McGovern that played for the Cowboys has not been quite as successful. McGovern was a capable pass blocker last year and played that role at an above-replacement level, but he has always been an enormous liability as a run blocker. Not only that, his success as a pass protector was largely limited to one season, allowing defenders to quickly win off the snap and forcing the quarterback to scramble or get rid of the ball quickly.

 

McGovern has only had one season as a full-time starter, playing as an injury replacement in other years. In that role, he’s spectacular, and teams could do a lot worse than having him as a depth player along the interior. But as a starter making starting money, it’s a big issue — especially for a team that wants to improve its running game.

 

McGovern’s contract incurs a $3.6 million cap hit in Year 1, which is in line with his value. But after that, it explodes to a functionally guaranteed second-year cap hit of $7.5 million and hits $8 million in Year 3 — an unguaranteed year but a difficult one to cut because he would incur $4 million in dead cap space.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/31/buffalo-bills-connor-mcgovern-worst-signings-nfl/

 

 

It's not too clear whether it's you or PFN saying this, but it says, "McGovern’s contract incurs a $3.6 million cap hit in Year 1, which is in line with his value. But after that, it explodes to a functionally guaranteed second-year cap hit of $7.5 million and hits $8 million in Year 3 — an unguaranteed year but a difficult one to cut because he would incur $4 million in dead cap space."

 

Hunh?

 

How is the second year "functionally guaranteed"? It's not, according to Spotrac. If they don't like him they could easily cut him. Wouldn't save any money that year, but would only lose $100K, and would save a lot in 2025. Cutting him before the 3rd year would save them a couple mill.

 

They did give him a signing bonus which will look too big if they don't like him. But they could easily cut him if they want to.

 

My guess is they're going to like him too much to want to cut him.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Thurman#1

[GETTOTHE50]

Brown is definitely the weak link. Too many times did players blow by him when Allen dropped back. He can improve though and I expect him to atleast be a little bit better. If not, then this will be his last season starting. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Greatly doubt they will cut Morse unless serious health problems crop up.

 

If they'd wanted to cut him, they'd have done it before paying him his $1M roster bonus on March 19th. On the same day, $1.36M of his salary became guaranteed, as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes but the cap hit was also very high, one of those were the salary almost equaled the cap hit.  But someone pointed out if they cut him in August is a $6 mil saving.  So wouldn't rule it out.   I'd imagine it would depend on how the other six all look and the 7th round rookie.  If they are afraid to cut any of them, then someone has to go either cut or trade.

 

Not a high likelihood of it happening, but most years usually include one surprise cut. 

[SoCal Deek]

The answer to this topic seems about simple as it can get. When the offseason dust settled the Bills chose to keep both starting Tackles and their Center. They’ll be swapping out both starting Guards for guys who weren’t even in the organization last season. So…it just comes down to improving Guard play…period. I’m guessing it’ll be better. It almost has to be. 

[finn]

6 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Brown is definitely the weak link. Too many times did players blow by him when Allen dropped back. He can improve though and I expect him to atleast be a little bit better. If not, then this will be his last season starting. 

I've been looking for Beane to add a veteran free agent, but so far it's all guards all the time. As you say, Brown might improve, but then again he might not, and he might get injured yet again. Quessenberry is just a warm body and would need help from Knox on virtually all plays. 

[SCBills]

My prediction, without anymore additions as of May..

 

Dawkins 

McGovern

Morse

Torrence

Brown

 

Quessenberry

Edwards

Bates

Broeker

Doyle

 

Im going Broeker over Boettger because, reportedly, he’s a Bates type player than we can cross train to play all 5 positions in a pinch.   I also think Beane is beyond sick and tired of having developmental guys poached .. and unlike Tenuta’s random metrics last year, this guy seems like a Kromer type prospect. 

[Warriorspikes51]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

My prediction, without anymore additions as of May..

 

Dawkins 

McGovern

Morse

Torrence

Brown

 

Quessenberry

Edwards

Bates

Broeker

Doyle

 

Im going Broeker over Boettger because, reportedly, he’s a Bates type player than we can cross train to play all 5 positions in a pinch.   I also think Beane is beyond sick and tired of having developmental guys poached .. and unlike Tenuta’s random metrics last year, this guy seems like a Kromer type prospect. 

 

 

Dawkins
McGovern

Morse
O'Cyrus

________  ?   

 

Gouraige

Broeker
Bates

Edwards
Brown

 

[finn]

3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

 

Dawkins
McGovern

Morse
O'Cyrus

________  ?   

 

Gouraige

Broeker
Bates

Edwards
Brown

 

I didn't consider moving Bates to right tackle and having Brown be the swing tackle. If Brown hasn't improved, that might be the best option. 

[hondo in seattle]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I disagree here.

 

Terrific, no. Good? Yeah, they do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure, Thurm.  The OL is definitely better and I'll be happy if they attain averageness this season, given where they've been.  But "good" - that's uncertain.  

 

Will Brown and/or Bates play better this season in their second years under Kromer and now playing alongside better people?   Not sure.  

 

How good will Torrence play as a rookie?   Not sure.  

 

Morse's concussions worry me, and I think some folks overrate him.  

 

McGovern is better than Saffold, but that's not saying much.

 

Edwards played decently a couple years ago but sucked last season from what I've heard/read.  I don't know what to expect from him.  

 

Dawkins is good and a warrior.  But he's not elite.  

 

But I see potential.  I see reasons to hope.  And I hope I'm wrong about them being average.   I really, really want to be wrong and you to be right.  

[Bruffalo]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Greatly doubt they will cut Morse unless serious health problems crop up.

 

If they'd wanted to cut him, they'd have done it before paying him his $1M roster bonus on March 19th. On the same day, $1.36M of his salary became guaranteed, as well.

 

 

 

 

I disagree here.

 

Terrific, no. Good? Yeah, they do.

 

 

100% agree here.

 

A top 5 unit? Not with Spencer Brown at RT (unless he makes a significant leap).

 

A top 10 unit? I think it's possible, maybe unlikely.

 

A top 15 unit? If they aren't, the O-Line coach should be fired. 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

It's not too clear whether it's you or PFN saying this, but it says, "McGovern’s contract incurs a $3.6 million cap hit in Year 1, which is in line with his value. But after that, it explodes to a functionally guaranteed second-year cap hit of $7.5 million and hits $8 million in Year 3 — an unguaranteed year but a difficult one to cut because he would incur $4 million in dead cap space."

 

Hunh?

 

How is the second year "functionally guaranteed"? It's not, according to Spotrac. If they don't like him they could easily cut him. Wouldn't save any money that year, but would only lose $100K, and would save a lot in 2025. Cutting him before the 3rd year would save them a couple mill.

 

They did give him a signing bonus which will look too big if they don't like him. But they could easily cut him if they want to.

 

My guess is they're going to like him too much to want to cut him.

 

Yeah, I don't see that either.  WTH does "functionally guaranteed" even mean?

 

Per Spotrac, his 2024 salary is not guaranteed except for injury until after the 2024 superbowl, when $1.1M guarantees.  If a portion of it guarantees, then it's not guaranteed. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/connor-mcgovern-29126/

[Beck Water]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:33 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm interested to see if they would consider Edwards a RT option. He played there in college and a bit in LA his rookie year. 

 

I've had exactly that same question.  Edwards made a point a couple times of how Kromer gives "everyone but the C" a chance to try all 4 positions. 

 

In LA, Rob Havenstein was pretty solid at RT.  At least last season, Spencer Brown was a lower bar to raise.

 

Of course, with Edwards, the first question is "how is his concussion recovery, really?" and is he more susceptible to another?

 

On 4/29/2023 at 2:50 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Big Cy, IMO, will sit a year. Beane comments made it sound like they have a diet plan for him. 
 

They aren’t benching Bates, and nor should they. 

 

You do realize that if the Bills actually used a 2nd round pick on a OG they plan to sit for a year and a 3rd round pick on a LB who isn't ready to play defense, that would be a pretty crummy draft strategy?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[Simon Says]

I don't know how Boettger will look. 

Broeker most likely to PS

Keep in mind,Edwards was a pretty good RT in college.

That all being said,Beane might sign a FA.

[Punching Bag]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:40 PM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

2022:

2023:

 

I prefer swiss to processed cheese food.  Hoping this year team will be blue cheese.

[HaldimandBills]

Bates is the wildcard. A lot of people penciling him in as the back up center and interior rotation piece. I however see a world were Brown doesn't meet expectations and Bates is our starting Right Tackle. Not ideal but you could do worse. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:38 PM, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I'd like to see competition for RT Spencer Brown, he had a rough year 2 to say the least, I give him a slight pass for playing injured but I hope to see a huge improvement year 3.

Spencer Brown absolutely scares the living crap out of me. Every time I see him on the field I see Josh's right arm getting bent in half. We acquired all these new olineman,  but did we even remotely find competition for Spencer "anvil feet" Brown?

[MrEpsYtown]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

My prediction, without anymore additions as of May..

 

Dawkins 

McGovern

Morse

Torrence

Brown

 

Quessenberry

Edwards

Bates

Broeker

Doyle

 

Im going Broeker over Boettger because, reportedly, he’s a Bates type player than we can cross train to play all 5 positions in a pinch.   I also think Beane is beyond sick and tired of having developmental guys poached .. and unlike Tenuta’s random metrics last year, this guy seems like a Kromer type prospect. 

Boettger is also going to be 29 this season. So im def keeping the young guy over him and imo Broecker is probably already better, he’s 22, and extremely durable.