Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: If that is the case, why didn't the Cowboys snap him up rather than reaching directly afterwards? I think we also have to consider the style of play as well. Mayer is more of a traditional TE, but the Bills already has one of those in Knox. Kincaid is more of a TE/WR hybrid which will suit their offense more. Mayer is a 3 down capable player. With equal receiving skills. Edited April 28, 2023 by IronMaidenBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: I never said Kincaid was woeful, or bad. Quote 4 hours ago IronMaidenBills said: When Skip and PFF are on the Kincaid train, then you know you are on the wrong ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, IronMaidenBills said: Mayer is a 3 down capable player. With equal receiving skills. He's a different style of TE to Kincaid, and maybe what the Bills do not need at the current time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: Context. I’ve stated from the very beginning it’s a Gronk vs Gesicki situation to where I believe I’d rather have a Gronk style TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 The more offensive firepower Beane wants to give Josh Allen the better, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, UKBillFan said: He's a different style of TE to Kincaid, and maybe what the Bills do not need at the current time. That’s fair, I don’t have any issue with that. My concern is WR2 and have said the Kincaid is a brilliant pick IF Beane has a plan at WR2, someone like a Hopkins makes this pick totally logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: This is a lie. They had the same receiving production. Where do people get this from. 1.5 more yards per catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: Yes, I would like IMB to address why Dallas would pass on IMB's clear #1 TE after the Bills foolishly jumped them to take the wrong TE. Kincaid had 35 in 4 years try again. I refuse to count SD, I’m only comparing equal footing programs. Utah production was the same as Mayer’s ND production. Facts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Mayer is a 3 down capable player. With equal receiving skills. Equal receiving skills according to no scouts, GMs, or anyone with functioning eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just beating a dead horse over and over in here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, IronMaidenBills said: I refuse to count SD, I’m only comparing equal footing programs. Utah production was the same as Mayer’s ND production. Facts You can refuse all you want, but you're showing that you're just being argumentative for arguments sake at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: That’s fair, I don’t have any issue with that. My concern is WR2 and have said the Kincaid is a brilliant pick IF Beane has a plan at WR2, someone like a Hopkins makes this pick totally logical. I agree, but I'd still have concerns about that if we had drafted Mayer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, 1ManRaid said: Equal receiving skills according to no scouts, GMs, or anyone with functioning eyes. Well congratulations to those scouts. I let the stats speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: It was just a joke, Francis, lighten up. Yeah, I know. All the complaining here is a joke. I'm good. 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, 1ManRaid said: You can refuse all you want, but you're showing that you're just being argumentative for arguments sake at this point. Just include their high schools stats, I mean it matters afterall. It does no good to include stats from an inferior program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, IronMaidenBills said: Well congratulations to those scouts. I let the stats speak for themselves. Lol are we really going to play that game? Did you really just type that with a straight face? OK EVERYONE PACK IT UP, WE HAVE DECIDED CONTEXT MEANS NOTHING AND RAW STATS ARE ALL THAT MATTER (ignoring the whole Kincaid averaging more yards per catch thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: I said he was Gesicki A better mike gesicki on a rookie contract is probably exactly what a team like the bills is looking for who have well documented red zone/short yardage struggles. I don’t think Mayer was even on the bills/cowboys radar. the only possibly way someone could even begin to see Mayer as better is factoring in his blocking which is not very important for the role Kincaid was drafted to fill Who’s better overall isn’t even really an important question as teams can both draft a TE or wr and use them in vastly different ways Edited April 28, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: That’s fair, I don’t have any issue with that. My concern is WR2 and have said the Kincaid is a brilliant pick IF Beane has a plan at WR2, someone like a Hopkins makes this pick totally logical. His WR2 is Gabe Davis. With Kincaid he will have a greater space as will Diggs. This forces nickel coverage and then gives the running game more room. DHop is not coming here both BB and the Cards spoke to it yesterday in a round about way. Don’t forget Shakir would have been rated 6-7 WR in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: Kincaid? Any relation to this guy? bradley kincaid was amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Context. I’ve stated from the very beginning it’s a Gronk vs Gesicki situation to where I believe I’d rather have a Gronk style TE. Literally everyone would want a gronk tight end but he was one of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, QLBillsFan said: His WR2 is Gabe Davis. With Kincaid he will have a greater space as will Diggs. This forces nickel coverage and then gives the running game more room. DHop is not coming here both BB and the Cards spoke to it yesterday in a round about way. Don’t forget Shakir would have been rated 6-7 WR in this draft. Have to admit, not sure if Davis is good enough as WR2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, aristocrat said: Literally everyone would want a gronk tight end but he was one of one. Lol we have people literally saying Kincaid is Kelce esque. It works both ways. Just now, UKBillFan said: Have to admit, not sure if Davis is good enough as WR2. He isn’t, he’s had his chance to prove it last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: Have to admit, not sure if Davis is good enough as WR2. Fair point. It’s about consistency. Sometimes he’s a 1 other times 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenbar Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 He is a freaking blocking machine, runs great routes, drops nothing. He is what I have been wanting the Bills to draft for a TE since before Tony Hunter..LOL..FREAKING CRUSHER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 If we do manage to still get Hopkins. The Kincaid pick makes infinitely more sense and I will get fully on board with it. You go big slot TE hybrid when you have 2 legitimate WRs because it’s nearly impossible to guard such a player with a LB or a bad #3 corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Mayer is a 3 down capable player. With equal receiving skills. The action of catching a ball thrown to them yes they are equal. The action leading up to that action they are not close. Mayer is a contested catch Te because he never separated in coverage. Kincaid is a superior route runner. Knox will be deployed the same way he has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, aristocrat said: Literally everyone would want a gronk tight end but he was one of one. The name drops are kind of skewing the debate a bit lol I feel like the question is would you rather have a TE that’s an excellent pass catcher/route runner and an ok blocker vs a TE that’s a good pass catcher and good blocker. For this bills roster and how it sounds like the bills are going to use him, pass catching is vastly more important than blocking. Gronk was a freak that could do it all like you said and his only hangup was staying healthy. So gesicki style vs Gronk style is hugely misleading. the scheme change Miami made under McDaniel didn’t really suit gesicki but that doesn’t mean a player of that mold can’t be the focal point of a different offensive scheme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Where did I say we would regret it? All I said was Mayer > Kincaid. Your schtick is getting old. There's a difference between stating your position and running around trying to dog anyone who disagrees with you. Confronted with stats? Those don't count because they don't match my narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: The action of catching a ball thrown to them yes they are equal. The action leading up to that action they are not close. Mayer is a contested catch Te because he never separated in coverage. Kincaid is a superior route runner. Knox will be deployed the same way he has been. Kincaid’s style makes perfect sense if we are still trying to obtain a WR2. Like brilliant sense. If we don’t draft one or get Hopkins, it’s a bit perplexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: If we do manage to still get Hopkins. The Kincaid pick makes infinitely more sense and I will get fully on board with it. You go big slot TE hybrid when you have 2 legitimate WRs because it’s nearly impossible to guard such a player with a LB or a bad #3 corner. I think the team even in its current state will have no issues creating mismatches and opportunities. We were after all, a top offense last year. Health of the team Will matter. kincaid is a greater mismatch than almost any other offensive weapon in this draft. And, we addressed a big hole on this team in our TE2. classic value/need pick. That’s what happens in a weak draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said: Your schtick is getting old. There's a difference between stating your position and running around trying to dog anyone who disagrees with you. Confronted with stats? Those don't count because they don't match my narrative. They don’t count because when you look at stats, you have to weigh them on equal comparisons. Im not trying to dog anyone, just simple conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: This is a lie. They had the same receiving production. Where do people get this from. The eye test? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Cray51 said: I think the team even in its current state will have no issues creating mismatches and opportunities. We were after all, a top offense last year. Health of the team Will matter. kincaid is a greater mismatch than almost any other offensive weapon in this draft. And, we addressed a big hole on this team in our TE2. classic value/need pick. That’s what happens in a weak draft Yes, such a mismatch that we got embarrassed by Cincinnati. I don’t see how Kincaid alone fixes that issue without a solid WR2. Edited April 28, 2023 by IronMaidenBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just looking up some different formations to try and I am curious to see how this would work for the Bills. Considering that we ran a bunch of RPO this seems like something we could do: Quote The basic play run from the flexbone is known as a triple option, or veer. Often the quarterback first sends one of the slotbacks in motion to the other side. While he is still in motion behind the fullback, the quarterback then receives the ball from the center. Next, the fullback (FB) either takes the football from the quarterback or 'fakes' that he has taken the football. If the fullback takes the football, then he runs straight into the line of scrimmage and attempts to gain yardage. If the fullback does not take the football, then the quarterback sprints parallel to the line of scrimmage with the motion slotback trailing him. The quarterback can either turn upfield or pitch the football to the trailing slotback. Hence the term triple because the fullback is option number one, the quarterback keeping the ball is option number two, and the quarterback pitching to the slotback is option number three. The triple option forces defenses to worry about fullbacks running in the middle of the offensive line and to worry about quarterbacks and slotbacks running to the outside of the line. The decision of who is to carry the ball (which option to make) can either be made before the play in the huddle, or during the play by the QB, who will make decisions based on the position and play of certain defensive players and what they are doing. The quarterback reads the defensive end on the side the play is going to when deciding whether to hand to the fullback or to keep it himself. If he sees the end is committed to stopping the fullback in the middle, the QB will keep it. If the end is staying back to contain the QB on the outside, he will give it to the fullback. If the quarterback does not hand to the FB, he will then read the end to see if he is committed to playing the SB on the pitch or the QB. If he is playing the QB, then he will pitch it to the slotback. If the end is committed to stopping the slotback on the pitch, the QB will take the ball upfield himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor26 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Kincaid is a much better prospect than Mayer come on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, Stenbar said: He is a freaking blocking machine, runs great routes, drops nothing. He is what I have been wanting the Bills to draft for a TE since before Tony Hunter..LOL..FREAKING CRUSHER Have not heard one person say he is a blocking machine. But he excels at everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Yes, such a mismatch that we got embarrassed by Cincinnati. I don’t see how Kincaid alone fixes that issue without a solid WR2. I think particular and individual games have too much nuance to try to build a team around. The Sabres dove into a team building pit of despair because of a single game (Lucic hitting Miller). over the course of last year, the bills were a top 5 offensive scheme. And that’s with Tommy Sweeney and Quinten Morris as our TE2. When you add in a pure pass catcher and dynamic route runner, we instantly upgrade a spot which previously wasn’t even staffed with NFL talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cray51 said: I think particular and individual games have too much nuance to try to build a team around. The Sabres dove into a team building pit of despair because of a single game (Lucic hitting Miller). over the course of last year, the bills were a top 5 offensive scheme. And that’s with Tommy Sweeney and Quinten Morris as our TE2. When you add in a pure pass catcher and dynamic route runner, we instantly upgrade a spot which previously wasn’t even staffed with NFL talent. For me the playoffs are all that matter. We haven’t done enough mismatching to even get to the super bowl, let alone win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Stenbar said: He is a freaking blocking machine, runs great routes, drops nothing. He is what I have been wanting the Bills to draft for a TE since before Tony Hunter..LOL..FREAKING CRUSHER iF your talking Kincaid blocking is considered a weakness for him. Which is why he is visioned as a hybrid slot WR/TE for us..... at least early on Edited April 28, 2023 by ddaryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: I have seen a bunch of kincaid … including knowing he was a basketball star which hurt his college offers… but basketball players turned TE is my jam im very impressed with his ability I think he’s squarely under a 4.6 with how smooth he is … probably a 4.55-4.58… on a bad day maybe 4.6 I think Beane loves him dual sport guys - -baseball/football for S and DB (both Hyde and Poyer were high-level baseball players in HS) -basketball/football for WR and TE One of the things that made Stevie Johnson so hard to jam on the line were his basketball moves. Beasley and McKenzie both played basketball - Beasley at 5'8" has video out there of him dunking, McKenzie claims he can dunk but I've seen no proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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