Rodgers Traded to Jets Officially

[Billl]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

How many games would the Bills have won?   Irrelevant.  Granted, their HC Sean McDermott did guide a team to the playoffs with the worst point differential to do so in 35 years so the HC does have a history of getting more than the sum of his teams parts.......so maybe 9 or 10 wins wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility.  But IMO........Allen and Rodgers are apples and oranges at this point in their careers.

 

And fwiw.......that's not how it actually works though.    Patrick Mahomes is worlds better than Alex Smith but the Chiefs didn't start going from 10-12 wins with Smith to undefeated every year because of the upgrade.    The improvement in regular season record was modest.  

 

The Jets caught teams by surprise early last year.   That element is gone.    And they won just 7 games but that already counted a win against Buffalo.......boring the Bills into submission in a listless effort that would have been reminiscent of games the Chiefs played against the dregs of the AFC......Houston(OT win) and Indy(loss).....last year.    So it's not like the Jets even have 2 games to gain against the division favorite, do they? 

 

I'm sure you were quaking in your boots when the Broncos added the elite, seemingly still prime and dynamic Russell Wilson to a superior defense to KC and a host of young offensive weapons.   After all, the Broncos often play KC tough no matter what scrub is at QB.   And Russ had a significantly better year in 2021 than Rodgers did last year.  

 

Did the Broncos improve by 5 games just because they added a veteran future HOF QB who had thrown 25 TD passes and just 6 INT the year before?    It couldn't have gone much different than expected.   I mean, yeah they did almost beat the Chiefs in Arrowhead late last year with an interim coach and a QB fiasco going on...........but somehow the young, elite QB'd team with the coach with the winning track record managed to prevail.   

 

Go figure.   

 

But I will note that you think Rodgers is in the equivalent of Allen and Burrow still.   At age 40, coming off a big performance drop, when he admittedly was 90% committed to retiring 2 months ago.  With a new team that has the longest playoff drought in the AFC.  And a buffoonish meathead at head coach.     

It’s funny that when the topic is Allen’s place among the best QBs in the league, the prevailing opinion here is that the Bills would be 1-16 without him but when the topic turns to what team has a better roster QBs notwithstanding, suddenly the Bills measure up just fine.  Not sure it works both ways.

 

IMO, the Jets have an excellent roster full of young, cost-controlled talent.  Their drafts have been excellent with the glaring exception of their bust at QB.  Well, now they’ve added the guy with 2 MVPs in the past 3 seasons.  It sounds an awful lot like the formula the Buccs and Rams followed recently.  

 

On the other hand, the Bills are the team who hit on their QB first and then built a roster around him.  Allen was their first pick in the draft 5 drafts ago, and there really hasn’t been a pick since then who is currently a proven impact player on the team.  The Bills drafted Ed Oliver, and the Jets drafted Quinnen Williams.  The Bills drafted Kaiir Elam, and the Jets drafted Sauce Gardner.  The Bills drafted James Cook, and the Jets drafted Breece Hall.  The Bills drafted Groot, and the Jets drafted Jermaine Johnson.

 

To my eyes, the Jets look like a team whose best players are still young and improving.  I don’t see a lot of young talent on the Bills.  They’re a team who went all in last year and started to show their age the second half of the season, and now they’re starting to shed salary.  Edmunds is gone.  White and Miller are coming off serious injuries.  They were building for 2021 and 2022.  They’re likely still very good in 2023, but the Dolphins and Jets see them as vulnerable, and Vegas agrees.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

It’s funny that when the topic is Allen’s place among the best QBs in the league, the prevailing opinion here is that the Bills would be 1-16 without him but when the topic turns to what team has a better roster QBs notwithstanding, suddenly the Bills measure up just fine.  Not sure it works both ways.

 

IMO, the Jets have an excellent roster full of young, cost-controlled talent.  Their drafts have been excellent with the glaring exception of their bust at QB.  Well, now they’ve added the guy with 2 MVPs in the past 3 seasons.  It sounds an awful lot like the formula the Buccs and Rams followed recently.  

 

On the other hand, the Bills are the team who hit on their QB first and then built a roster around him.  Allen was their first pick in the draft 5 drafts ago, and there really hasn’t been a pick since then who is currently a proven impact player on the team.  The Bills drafted Ed Oliver, and the Jets drafted Quinnen Williams.  The Bills drafted Kaiir Elam, and the Jets drafted Sauce Gardner.  The Bills drafted James Cook, and the Jets drafted Breece Hall.  The Bills drafted Groot, and the Jets drafted Jermaine Johnson.

 

To my eyes, the Jets look like a team whose best players are still young and improving.  I don’t see a lot of young talent on the Bills.  They’re a team who went all in last year and started to show their age the second half of the season, and now they’re starting to shed salary.  Edmunds is gone.  White and Miller are coming off serious injuries.  They were building for 2021 and 2022.  They’re likely still very good in 2023, but the Dolphins and Jets see them as vulnerable, and Vegas agrees.

Beane needs a good draft and I have my concerns about the roster build. Nonetheless, the Bills remain formidable. There were a lot of things that happened last year that cumulatively added up to an extraordinary amount of adversity to overcome and by the end, the team was spent. I expect a bounce back year. I'm not sold on Rodgers, though he might be energized by the trade. I think it's just as likely age catches up with him. He doesn't have Brady's intense focus and zeal for the game. Allen is still the best qb and that is often the ultimate trump card.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

 

I disagree...yes they trained their asses off...

 

but they knew they were good and everyone said so, human ego is very real....with alpha males especially

Of course the players knew about the hype and how good they were. That's was never in dispute. 

 

I'm saying that the media and fan hype had little effect on the Bills season. These guy are pros and know how to properly focus themselves. Of course, during a season teams will be flat or play poorly and vice versa. 

 

However, I'm not buying the Bills hype and their fragile egos played a significant role in last season. 

[Captain Hindsight]

14 minutes ago, Billl said:

It’s funny that when the topic is Allen’s place among the best QBs in the league, the prevailing opinion here is that the Bills would be 1-16 without him but when the topic turns to what team has a better roster QBs notwithstanding, suddenly the Bills measure up just fine.  Not sure it works both ways.

 

IMO, the Jets have an excellent roster full of young, cost-controlled talent.  Their drafts have been excellent with the glaring exception of their bust at QB.  Well, now they’ve added the guy with 2 MVPs in the past 3 seasons.  It sounds an awful lot like the formula the Buccs and Rams followed recently.  

 

On the other hand, the Bills are the team who hit on their QB first and then built a roster around him.  Allen was their first pick in the draft 5 drafts ago, and there really hasn’t been a pick since then who is currently a proven impact player on the team.  The Bills drafted Ed Oliver, and the Jets drafted Quinnen Williams.  The Bills drafted Kaiir Elam, and the Jets drafted Sauce Gardner.  The Bills drafted James Cook, and the Jets drafted Breece Hall.  The Bills drafted Groot, and the Jets drafted Jermaine Johnson.

 

To my eyes, the Jets look like a team whose best players are still young and improving.  I don’t see a lot of young talent on the Bills.  They’re a team who went all in last year and started to show their age the second half of the season, and now they’re starting to shed salary.  Edmunds is gone.  White and Miller are coming off serious injuries.  They were building for 2021 and 2022.  They’re likely still very good in 2023, but the Dolphins and Jets see them as vulnerable, and Vegas agrees.

second best odds to win the AFC. Vegas doesn’t seem down on the Bills

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, Fallser said:

 

JESTS go 7-10, 6-11 if Aaron plays all 17. 

you think they have a worse record next year with rodgers? Jets qbs combined for 4k yards 15 tds and 14 picks. Rodgers threw for 3700 yards 26 tds 12 picks with all rookie receivers. Now he’s got legit weapons. They’re gonna be good 

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

second best odds to win the AFC. Vegas doesn’t seem down on the Bills

I’ve said multiple times in this thread that the Bills have the best odds to win the East.  Vegas puts them at about a 40% chance of winning the division.  They’re about as likely to win the AFCE as the Lions are to win the NFCN.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

I think Rodgers has more left in the tank than Favre did when the Jets picked him up.

 

 

Didn't Favre play for four more years after he left greenbay? I dont think Rodgers plays that long

 

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, Billl said:

It’s funny that when the topic is Allen’s place among the best QBs in the league, the prevailing opinion here is that the Bills would be 1-16 without him but when the topic turns to what team has a better roster QBs notwithstanding, suddenly the Bills measure up just fine.  Not sure it works both ways.

 

IMO, the Jets have an excellent roster full of young, cost-controlled talent.  Their drafts have been excellent with the glaring exception of their bust at QB.  Well, now they’ve added the guy with 2 MVPs in the past 3 seasons.  It sounds an awful lot like the formula the Buccs and Rams followed recently.  

 

On the other hand, the Bills are the team who hit on their QB first and then built a roster around him.  Allen was their first pick in the draft 5 drafts ago, and there really hasn’t been a pick since then who is currently a proven impact player on the team.  The Bills drafted Ed Oliver, and the Jets drafted Quinnen Williams.  The Bills drafted Kaiir Elam, and the Jets drafted Sauce Gardner.  The Bills drafted James Cook, and the Jets drafted Breece Hall.  The Bills drafted Groot, and the Jets drafted Jermaine Johnson.

 

To my eyes, the Jets look like a team whose best players are still young and improving.  I don’t see a lot of young talent on the Bills.  They’re a team who went all in last year and started to show their age the second half of the season, and now they’re starting to shed salary.  Edmunds is gone.  White and Miller are coming off serious injuries.  They were building for 2021 and 2022.  They’re likely still very good in 2023, but the Dolphins and Jets see them as vulnerable, and Vegas agrees.

 

 

I didn't say anything about the Bills roster.   

 

The Bills have had seasons(2017 and 2019) where they have overachieved and reached the playoffs with McDermott, though.

 

Saleh?  His Jets got off to a fast start playing a bunch of backup QB's.   White and Flacco and Zack beating backup QB's is meh.   They finished 2-9 on the season versus starting QB's.

 

They also had the healthiest defense in the entire NFL last season.

 

So basically..........they had A BUNCH of "ball luck" just to get to that 7-10 you find so impressive.  

 

And as noted in the Barnwell ESPN article...........teams that make huge improvements in one year defensively have a tendency to give it all back the next year.

 

Remember the great young Redskins defense a couple years ago?   Jumped from 27th to 3rd.   Then fell back to 27th.  

 

As for you player comps........when you draft later you tend to get lower ceiling players.   But the Bills picks aren't busts and I question your knowledge of players if you think the over-ripe Jermaine Johnson is better than Greg Rousseau.   That screams "I don't follow this closely".    

 

Here's the draft pick you didn't mention............Bills drafted Josh Allen.........Jets drafted Zack Wilson.

 

You are a fan of a team that just won a SB with an overmatched roster...........because they had the better QB.    So why can't you understand the perspective that a logical fan will believe that the Jets or Dolphins will unseat the Bills when they ACTUALLY prove they can outperform an elite QB'd team over 17 games?

 

 

 

[PauleeeWalnuts]

2 hours ago, Fallser said:

 

JESTS go 7-10, 6-11 if Aaron plays all 17. 

Ok haha We’ll see how this post ages then. 

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

So why can't you understand the perspective that a logical fan will believe that the Jets or Dolphins will unseat the Bills when they ACTUALLY prove they can outperform an elite QB'd team over 17 games?

When have the Bills ever proven they can win a division with an elite QB in it?  It sure seems to me like they’ve lorded over a division with nothing but garbage at the position only to get knocked out of the playoffs by Watson, Mahomes, Mahomes, and Burrow.  Josh has playoff wins against the corpse of Philip Rivers, Lamar Jackson (who got injured and didn’t play a full game), Skylar Thompson, and Mac Jones.  

 

The Jets 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As for you player comps........when you draft later you tend to get lower ceiling players.   But the Bills picks aren't busts and I question your knowledge of players if you think the over-ripe Jermaine Johnson is better than Greg Rousseau.   That screams "I don't follow this closely".    

I’m not saying that Johnson is necessarily better than Rousseau.  As of now, they look pretty even.  The point is that Johnson was maybe the fourth best player the Jets drafted in 2022 whereas Rousseau is the best player the Bills have drafted since Josh 5 years ago.  The Jets are drafting circles around Beane.  They’re loaded with talent that hasn’t even come close to hitting its peak with guys like Garrett Wilson, Quinnen Williams, Bresee Hall, Sauce Gardner, and Jermaine Johnson.  Buffalo’s stars are Von Miller (34 and coming off a second ACL injury), Tre White (hasn’t been the same since his knee injury), and Stefon Diggs (turning 30 this year).  They literally have one young player (Groot) who has shown any potential of being a cornerstone type player.

 

If you were starting a franchise and had to pick the roster (excluding QBs) of either the Jets or the Bills, all 32 GMs would take the Jets.  Similarly, all 32 GMs would take the Bills QB, but it’s nowhere near the chasm it was last year.  The Jets are a good team that is absolutely capable of winning the division.  The Chiefs are clear favorites.  After that, there is a tier of 4 teams (Eagles, Bills, 49ers, and Bengals).  The Jets are in the next group right behind them.  Vegas has them at 10 wins and gives them about a 30% chance of winning the division.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

When have the Bills ever proven they can win a division with an elite QB in it?  It sure seems to me like they’ve lorded over a division with nothing but garbage at the position only to get knocked out of the playoffs by Watson, Mahomes, Mahomes, and Burrow.  Josh has playoff wins against the corpse of Philip Rivers, Lamar Jackson (who got injured and didn’t play a full game), Skylar Thompson, and Mac Jones.  

 

The Jets 

I’m not saying that Johnson is necessarily better than Rousseau.  As of now, they look pretty even.  The point is that Johnson was maybe the fourth best player the Jets drafted in 2022 whereas Rousseau is the best player the Bills have drafted since Josh 5 years ago.  The Jets are drafting circles around Beane.  They’re loaded with talent that hasn’t even come close to hitting its peak with guys like Garrett Wilson, Quinnen Williams, Bresee Hall, Sauce Gardner, and Jermaine Johnson.  Buffalo’s stars are Von Miller (34 and coming off a second ACL injury), Tre White (hasn’t been the same since his knee injury), and Stefon Diggs (turning 30 this year).  They literally have one young player (Groot) who has shown any potential of being a cornerstone type player.

 

If you were starting a franchise and had to pick the roster (excluding QBs) of either the Jets or the Bills, all 32 GMs would take the Jets.  Similarly, all 32 GMs would take the Bills QB, but it’s nowhere near the chasm it was last year.  The Jets are a good team that is absolutely capable of winning the division.  The Chiefs are clear favorites.  After that, there is a tier of 4 teams (Eagles, Bills, 49ers, and Bengals).  The Jets are in the next group right behind them.  Vegas has them at 10 wins and gives them about a 30% chance of winning the division.

 

 

Who has Mahomes had to beat at QB in his division the past 5 years?   The AFC west has been KC and a bunch of mis-managed patsies since Peyton Manning's arm fell off.   And ALL of Mahomes career.  

 

And no........Justin Herbert isn't an elite QB.   Yeah he put up impressive stats(first two years, anyway) but Tua was the top rated passer in the AFC last year and he's not elite either.   People thought Herberts teams would stop underachieving badly when he got to the NFL but his Oregon experience has continued.   He's just not a competitor at the level of Mahomes/Allen/Burrow.    And yes, I know Mahomes blew a 24 point lead to Burrow in the AFCCG........sometimes an elite QB has a historic choke job........but the performance by Herbert in Jacksonville was just an epic lack of will by the more talented team.  

 

An admittedly raw,  second year Allen took a talent-deficient Bills team to the playoffs in a division with Tom Brady in it.   He didn't beat Brady but Brady got the best of Mahomes a couple times in that 2018-2020 stretch if I recall.    The Bills have not always been unchallenged in their division.  

 

As for the list of QB's Mahomes has beaten in the playoffs.........the best QB's on the list are Allen and Burrow.   I suspect the Jimmy G/Jalen Hurts SB wins are going to look like the Jake Delhomme/Donovan McNabb wins on Brady's resume in retrospect.......not the Kurt Warner/Russ Wilson HOF career types that he beat.   

 

Again.........Jermaine Johnson and Rousseau aren't comps at all.  Not close.  Rousseau lead the NFL in run stops as a rookie playing only 44% of the snaps.   He is an excellent pressure guy,  great against the run and likely a double-digit sack guy this season.  He's like a year and a half younger than Johnson and miles ahead of him.   Johnson's rookie year comp is Boogie Basham.   Except Basham put up the same numbers in a lot less snaps.   Like I said.......that just shows me you don't follow personnel very closely and are making lazy comps.   

 

Are Sauce and Wilson and Quinnen very good players?  Sure.   But like I told people when the Bills traded the Mahomes pick to KC and people defended it with Tre is All Pro and Edmunds is very good..........an elite young QB is worth a half a roster of star players.   The Bills have that.   

 

As for the Vegas odds.........yeah the Bills are the 3rd favorite to win the SB despite your assessment of their roster.   A team with a 40 year old, half-retired screwball at QB being BEHIND them in the odds sounds about right.   I mean........it will be tough going against Aaron Rodgers who had to overcome so many elite QB's in the NFC North every year..........but hopefully Josh Allen can raise his competitiveness level. 

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Rodgers quickly goes from best QB in the NFC to maybe the 6-7th best in the AFC. What a murderers row in this division. I still think Buffalo still takes the AFCE, but I have a feeling we will see the Jets in the playoffs. 

 Jets will challenge for the division this year; we are in a period of regression and now this.

 

 

[SydneyBillsFan]

This guy is good:

 

https://youtu.be/2vnuElb0MDk 

Edited April 26, 2023 by SydneyBillsFan

[John from Riverside]

Why do I feel like the Jets are getting old Tom Brady?

[Billl]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Who has Mahomes had to beat at QB in his division the past 5 years?   The AFC west has been KC and a bunch of mis-managed patsies since Peyton Manning's arm fell off.   And ALL of Mahomes career.  

 

And no........Justin Herbert isn't an elite QB.   Yeah he put up impressive stats(first two years, anyway) but Tua was the top rated passer in the AFC last year and he's not elite either.   People thought Herberts teams would stop underachieving badly when he got to the NFL but his Oregon experience has continued.   He's just not a competitor at the level of Mahomes/Allen/Burrow.    And yes, I know Mahomes blew a 24 point lead to Burrow in the AFCCG........sometimes an elite QB has a historic choke job........but the performance by Herbert in Jacksonville was just an epic lack of will by the more talented team.  

 

An admittedly raw,  second year Allen took a talent-deficient Bills team to the playoffs in a division with Tom Brady in it.   He didn't beat Brady but Brady got the best of Mahomes a couple times in that 2018-2020 stretch if I recall.    The Bills have not always been unchallenged in their division.  

 

As for the list of QB's Mahomes has beaten in the playoffs.........the best QB's on the list are Allen and Burrow.   I suspect the Jimmy G/Jalen Hurts SB wins are going to look like the Jake Delhomme/Donovan McNabb wins on Brady's resume in retrospect.......not the Kurt Warner/Russ Wilson HOF career types that he beat.   

 

Again.........Jermaine Johnson and Rousseau aren't comps at all.  Not close.  Rousseau lead the NFL in run stops as a rookie playing only 44% of the snaps.   He is an excellent pressure guy,  great against the run and likely a double-digit sack guy this season.  He's like a year and a half younger than Johnson and miles ahead of him.   Johnson's rookie year comp is Boogie Basham.   Except Basham put up the same numbers in a lot less snaps.   Like I said.......that just shows me you don't follow personnel very closely and are making lazy comps.   

 

Are Sauce and Wilson and Quinnen very good players?  Sure.   But like I told people when the Bills traded the Mahomes pick to KC and people defended it with Tre is All Pro and Edmunds is very good..........an elite young QB is worth a half a roster of star players.   The Bills have that.   

 

As for the Vegas odds.........yeah the Bills are the 3rd favorite to win the SB despite your assessment of their roster.   A team with a 40 year old, half-retired screwball at QB being BEHIND them in the odds sounds about right.   I mean........it will be tough going against Aaron Rodgers who had to overcome so many elite QB's in the NFC North every year..........but hopefully Josh Allen can raise his competitiveness level. 

Mahomes just beat Herbert, Carr, and Russell Wilson to win the division.  All of them are better than the best QB in any division Allen has won.  What’s more is that he’s beat Luck, Watson, Allen, Allen, Burrow, and Hurts in the playoffs while Allen is 0-2 against that list in addition to being 0-2 against Mahomes head to head.  I’ve got no idea how or why you’ve tried to make a discussion about Rodgers going to the Jets a referendum on Mahomes’s career, but when you’re trying to downplay Patrick’s accomplishments, you’ve lost the debate in spectacular fashion.  He’s the most accomplished QB in the game and almost certainly will be for the remainder of his career (barring a Rodgers Super Bowl win in NY).

 

You’re welcome to try to split hairs about who is better between Rousseau and Johnson, but you’re missing the point.  Rousseau is the best player Beane has drafted since Allen.  That’s 40+ draft picks over a 5 year stretch.  He’s maybe a little bit better than Johnson.  Johnson is the 4th best player the Jets drafted in 2022 alone.  The Jets have loaded up on talent in the draft recently while the best player the Bills have drafted in nearly 5 years is a rotational DE.  Also, I have no idea where you came up with the idea that he led the NFL in run stops.  He had 50 combined tackles on the season.  Foye Oluokun had 192 tackles that year, and I can assure you that fewer than 150 of them were in pass coverage.

 

When it comes to the draft, Beane’s biggest strength is his ability to find guys who can at least stick on NFL rosters.  He hasn’t drafted a single player who has made a Pro Bowl since 2018, though.  The result is that the team is loaded with aging players.  They looked old and slow against Cincinnati, and that’s not counting the guys like Von Miller, John Brown, and Micah Hyde who weren’t even able to suit up.  Now, it looks like they’re running it back minus Edmunds (one of the few young, key contributors).  We’ll see if it works.  Either way, I think this roster is going to be torn down to the studs a year from now.  The only question will be who’s in charge of the rebuild.

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

Also, I have no idea where you came up with the idea that he led the NFL in run stops.  He had 50 combined tackles on the season.  Foye Oluokun had 192 tackles that year, and I can assure you that fewer than 150 of them were in pass coverage.

 

"Run stops" is a PFF metric. It isn't just the number of tackles you make on a run play. This is their definition:

 

"PFF describes a ‘stop' as an offensive gain on first down that is kept to less than 40 percent of the line to gain, less than 50 percent of the line to gain on second down and any third- or fourth-down play kept without a first down or touchdown."

 

By their metrics Rousseau led all edge rushers in total run stops and run stop percentage in his rookie season.

[Utah John]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Didn't Favre play for four more years after he left greenbay? I dont think Rodgers plays that long

 

Favre wasn't good anymore after he left GB.  His arm was shot.  He got TDs by throwing up ducks and hoping his receivers outfought the defenders.  

[90sBills]

12 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

 

I hope the media and everyone "tempers their expectations".  It was a loonnng and weird season last year to be sure, but I believe the Bills being anointed Champs all year didnt do us any favors.  That underdog mentality can bring out the in ya

Especially when the Bills hasn’t earned that lofty expectation last year. It was very annoying and in the end the team ultimately crumbled under pressure. Hope it was a lesson for all not to be hyped by headlines. Let your accomplishments on the field dictate expectations. 

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Who has Mahomes had to beat at QB in his division the past 5 years?   The AFC west has been KC and a bunch of mis-managed patsies since Peyton Manning's arm fell off.   And ALL of Mahomes career.  

 

And no........Justin Herbert isn't an elite QB.   Yeah he put up impressive stats(first two years, anyway) but Tua was the top rated passer in the AFC last year and he's not elite either.   People thought Herberts teams would stop underachieving badly when he got to the NFL but his Oregon experience has continued.   He's just not a competitor at the level of Mahomes/Allen/Burrow.    And yes, I know Mahomes blew a 24 point lead to Burrow in the AFCCG........sometimes an elite QB has a historic choke job........but the performance by Herbert in Jacksonville was just an epic lack of will by the more talented team.  

 

An admittedly raw,  second year Allen took a talent-deficient Bills team to the playoffs in a division with Tom Brady in it.   He didn't beat Brady but Brady got the best of Mahomes a couple times in that 2018-2020 stretch if I recall.    The Bills have not always been unchallenged in their division.  

 

As for the list of QB's Mahomes has beaten in the playoffs.........the best QB's on the list are Allen and Burrow.   I suspect the Jimmy G/Jalen Hurts SB wins are going to look like the Jake Delhomme/Donovan McNabb wins on Brady's resume in retrospect.......not the Kurt Warner/Russ Wilson HOF career types that he beat.   

 

Again.........Jermaine Johnson and Rousseau aren't comps at all.  Not close.  Rousseau lead the NFL in run stops as a rookie playing only 44% of the snaps.   He is an excellent pressure guy,  great against the run and likely a double-digit sack guy this season.  He's like a year and a half younger than Johnson and miles ahead of him.   Johnson's rookie year comp is Boogie Basham.   Except Basham put up the same numbers in a lot less snaps.   Like I said.......that just shows me you don't follow personnel very closely and are making lazy comps.   

 

Are Sauce and Wilson and Quinnen very good players?  Sure.   But like I told people when the Bills traded the Mahomes pick to KC and people defended it with Tre is All Pro and Edmunds is very good..........an elite young QB is worth a half a roster of star players.   The Bills have that.   

 

As for the Vegas odds.........yeah the Bills are the 3rd favorite to win the SB despite your assessment of their roster.   A team with a 40 year old, half-retired screwball at QB being BEHIND them in the odds sounds about right.   I mean........it will be tough going against Aaron Rodgers who had to overcome so many elite QB's in the NFC North every year..........but hopefully Josh Allen can raise his competitiveness level. 

This argument falls flat with Mahomes because he has been to the Superbowl 3 times and won 2 of them. Winning the division is just a stepping stone to the ultimate goal. So can’t knock a guy that’s already proven. 

[Dr.Sack]

59 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

This argument falls flat with Mahomes because he has been to the Superbowl 3 times and won 2 of them. Winning the division is just a stepping stone to the ultimate goal. So can’t knock a guy that’s already proven. 

 

Rodgers is a great QB, with a 11-10 playoff record. Mahomes is 11-3. The Jets are the Jets. AFC is a bear. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 Jets will challenge for the division this year; we are in a period of regression and now this.

 

 

They absolutely will, but I think Buffalo wins it by a narrow margin. McDermott taking over the defense could potentially be huge + Rousseau taking the next step (he has steadily improved each year from 4 to 8 sacks in year 2) along w/ Elam. Cook & Shakir also for the offense. The roster is going to be much improved this year as the young players in key positions continue to develop.
 

It also depends on Rodgers. If he returns to 2021 form then a wildcard for Buffalo is very possible. No way is he as bad as he was last year, I think he will be somewhere in the middle. Jets & Miami are no longer free wins and that’s a fact. Those days are over. Jets will be the true rival this year. I think Saleh is the real deal. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Gregg]

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

[Radar]

23 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

We looked like an elite team the first half of the season.  Not the second half.  Wonder which Bills squad shows up this season.  

I have been a fan since the  Bills inception in the old AFL. They are my team but I try to be objective. I think we have three players at this time who I would maybe say are elite. Maybe. That does not constitute an elite "team" in my opinion. We have holes in our offensive line. A very limited running game which puts pressure on the passing (Diggs/Josh) game. Our defense is also very good but not elite. So, we have a good-very good team. We saw both in the two halves of last season. I also think this assessment applies to the overall assessment of the franchise. Very good not elite.

[JerseyBills]

I'm actually liking the hype they're getting, as well as Buffalo getting disrespected,  especially on NYC sports radio. They're delusional.  Haven't had a winning season in a decade and really think they're SB bound now.

 

I love Buf being overlooked vs last off season being SB favorites and the darlings of the NFL 

[Gregg]

 

[TBBills Fan]

14 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Of course the players knew about the hype and how good they were. That's was never in dispute. 

 

I'm saying that the media and fan hype had little effect on the Bills season. These guy are pros and know how to properly focus themselves. Of course, during a season teams will be flat or play poorly and vice versa. 

 

However, I'm not buying the Bills hype and their fragile egos played a significant role in last season. 

 

 

fair enough, agree to disagree....

 

I think the media is small part of it, it is a sum of multiple things, the largest factor is of course human ego. Does it make a huge difference, who knows and probably not.  However, I think mind set matters, and I wan t o see a HUNGRY and humble team expecting to TAKE the damn superbowl and Lombardi, not one that thinks they were ordained for it. 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

 

Rodgers is a great QB, with a 11-10 playoff record. Mahomes is 11-3. The Jets are the Jets. AFC is a bear. 

Oh I agree. Rodgers is not Mahomes. He’ll make the Jets better but Bills should still win the division.

 

My reply was to a bad take.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, 90sBills said:

This argument falls flat with Mahomes because he has been to the Superbowl 3 times and won 2 of them. Winning the division is just a stepping stone to the ultimate goal. So can’t knock a guy that’s already proven. 

 

 

@Billl made the argument about the significance of Josh Allen not having to beat elite QB's in his division.   Not me.   It's irrelevant.   Tom Brady never had to beat a then-elite QB in division and he's the GOAT.  Neither did Aaron Rodgers in the AFC North.    My point was that it was an ill conceived criticism of Allen and the Bills and you are correct that it therefore applies to making the same criticism of Mahomes or any successful QB.

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

 

fair enough, agree to disagree....

 

I think the media is small part of it, it is a sum of multiple things, the largest factor is of course human ego. Does it make a huge difference, who knows and probably not.  However, I think mind set matters, and I wan t o see a HUNGRY and humble team expecting to TAKE the damn superbowl and Lombardi, not one that thinks they were ordained for it. 

Curious to ask who or what team do you think had a mindset that they were "ordained" to win it all? Strange comment...

 

Are you suggesting the Bills players weren't humble or hungry? If not, what team or players are you referring too? Another odd statement...

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Curious to ask who or what team do you think had a mindset that they were "ordained" to win it all? Strange comment...

 

Are you suggesting the Bills players weren't humble or hungry? If not, what team or players are you referring too? Another odd statement...

 

 

The Bills.....

 

Im suggesting Id prefer them Humble and hungry....as opposed to being the "favorite".  Is that easier for you to understand? lol

[90sBills]

28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Billl made the argument about the significance of Josh Allen not having to beat elite QB's in his division.   Not me.   It's irrelevant.   Tom Brady never had to beat a then-elite QB in division and he's the GOAT.  Neither did Aaron Rodgers in the AFC North.    My point was that it was an ill conceived criticism of Allen and the Bills and you are correct that it therefore applies to making the same criticism of Mahomes or any successful QB.

Right on. He’s not a fan of the Bills so that argument is expected. The Jets improved with Rodgers but I don’t think it’s enough to win the East. Allen is still the best in the division and Bills should win it. Getting the #1 seed will be alot more difficult though. 

[newcam2012]

38 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

 

The Bills.....

 

Im suggesting Id prefer them Humble and hungry....as opposed to being the "favorite".  Is that easier for you to understand? lol

Your logic is flawed. One can be the favorite and still be humble and hungry. 

 

Is that easier for you to understand? Lol

[TBBills Fan]

10 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Especially when the Bills hasn’t earned that lofty expectation last year. It was very annoying and in the end the team ultimately crumbled under pressure. Hope it was a lesson for all not to be hyped by headlines. Let your accomplishments on the field dictate expectations. 

 

agree 100%

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Your logic is flawed. One can be the favorite and still be humble and hungry. 

 

Is that easier for you to understand? Lol

 

 

just as much as one can have their own ego get in the way of the goal.

 

And my preference is they are hungry and are either counted out or in a under dog role.

 

Is that easier for you to understand?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

I have been a fan since the  Bills inception in the old AFL. They are my team but I try to be objective. I think we have three players at this time who I would maybe say are elite. Maybe. That does not constitute an elite "team" in my opinion. We have holes in our offensive line. A very limited running game which puts pressure on the passing (Diggs/Josh) game. Our defense is also very good but not elite. So, we have a good-very good team. We saw both in the two halves of last season. I also think this assessment applies to the overall assessment of the franchise. Very good not elite.

You make a lot of valid and not untrue statements here but I feel like there is another train of thought that proves differently.

 

We have seen teams like the Jets and Dolphins for YEARS throw rosters together with elite free agents. Seems like every big name FA is linked to or signs with one of them. They have elite players...but are not elite as a team. It's a bunch of great players that don't compliment each other with a huge revolving door both at the player level and coaching level. There is a lack of on field leadership and team chemistry which leads to being mediocre. We saw the same thing here in Buffalo under Whaley. Added good players be it a fit or not.

 

The Bills on the other hand have a lot of good players that form to make a great team. Hyde and Poyer are an excellent example of this. On their own I don't know if either reaches the heights they have together. It's that way in a lot of the position rooms. Yes, the team has holes and needs upgrades. But they guys they do have are close and their skillset compliments each other well. That bring them up some levels in my opinion. The pieces put in place here for the most part fit what we do and that makes the machine run smoother so to speak.

[papazoid]

the bills are built to play on a fast track.......it was sloppy vs playoff cincy

 

half the defense was out or playing injured vs that cincy game....von, daquan, hyde, poyer, white

 

some players like saffold were mentally fatigued after all the demar hamlin worries

 

the bills in the regular season beat themselves in all 3 losses.

 

the bills are a legit Top 5 team in league and will win the division.....yea the jets got better....but not enough to overtake buf

 

i say they put it all together this season...... 13-4 and to the super bowl

[jethro_tull]

Not personally worried.  

It takes at least a season to develop QB / WR chemistry.  By that time Rogers will have turned into a prima donna AH and lose the locker room  

[Gregg]

Rich Cimini on Twitter: "Aaron Rodgers will be introduced today at a 2 pm presser. Yesterday, Joe Douglas addressed the trade. #Jets https://t.co/zc1J8A4dVq" / Twitter

[Just in Atlanta]

I can’t see Rogers getting along with Saleh for some reason.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Billl made the argument about the significance of Josh Allen not having to beat elite QB's in his division.   Not me.   It's irrelevant.   Tom Brady never had to beat a then-elite QB in division and he's the GOAT.  Neither did Aaron Rodgers in the AFC North.    My point was that it was an ill conceived criticism of Allen and the Bills and you are correct that it therefore applies to making the same criticism of Mahomes or any successful QB.

What do you mean it was my argument?  I was responding to your statement that the Jets and Dolphins haven't proven that they could win a division against a team with an elite QB by saying that the same was true of the Bills.

 

It mattered enough for you to make the statement about NY and Miami, but you suddenly found it irrelevant as soon as the same logic was applied to Buffalo.