Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

Jets should go all in on Lamar over Rodgers. This boils down to do you want a just turned 26 year old, or soon to 40 year old leading your franchise? 

 

I wish they would.  Buffalo has shown they know how to defend a Lemur led defense.

 

There was one previous fully guaranteed QB contract previous to Browns - Kirk Cousins.

It did not set market.

After earning starting spot for Washington he played under tag until Washington could no longer afford to tag him.

Cousins went to Vikings in 2018 on a three-year, $84 million fully-guaranteed deal.

He's returned on one-year extensions the last two seasons and selected to Pro Bowl three if the five years in Minnesota.

 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

 

He has started every game but one since being named starter and that may have been a game they rested him.

Lemur has not shown that availability and availability is most important attribute.

 

[Behindenemylines]

I hope he sits out this year for no other reason than to watch the experiment.  
 

Sherman and Johnson are morons imho.  No entertainer is worth that much money annyway.  and it’s not their money they are happy to spend. It’s not the owners money either-in large part it ends up being OUR money that pays for it with higher ticket prices and product costs for those that sponsor the NFL. 

As i keep listening to both sides it becomes more and more obsurd. I hope Thw Browns fail and the Lamar fails all because of greed amongst the many party’s involved

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Jets should go all in on Lamar over Rodgers. This boils down to do you want a just turned 26 year old, or soon to 40 year old leading your franchise? 

From the way the Johnson boys run that organization, just send them a Tweet 'Hey Johnsons!  Why not both?!?', and they should go on a spree. 😁

[oldmanfan]

Doesn’t have a prayer of getting that kind of guaranteed money.  He really needs an agent.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

Yes, it does.   it’s Jackson’s market because he’s a commensurate player to the QB who got that deal.  It’s not Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold’s market.

Jackson should ask for that deal.  The Ravens don’t have to pay it.  It’s business.

 

His market value is what the market determines.  Since neither the Ravens nor any other team feels he's worth a fully guaranteed contract, that's his market.

 

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Doesn’t have a prayer of getting that kind of guaranteed money.  He really needs an agent.

 

He's needs a reality check.  An agent would fire him as a client soon after being hired.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, purple haze said:

He’s trying to get what he wants and feels he deserves based on his accomplishments and what the market set.   Had the Ravens paid him earlier on this situation wouldn’t exist.  The Ravens have themselves to blame.

 

With what Jackson has meant to the Ravens, no, I would not take less from them.  If I had to settle it would be somewhere else where I have no history.

 

 

Paid him what...a fully guaranteed salary?  That's was never going to happen, no matter how much he demanded it.  You know this would be foolish.

 

What he has meant to the Ravens?  Well let's see..

 

5 seasons, 101 passing TDs.  24 rushing TDs.  One season over 3000 yards.  3 playoff appearances in  a row to start his career: threw total of 3 TDs vs 5 ints. 1 win.  Season has ended weeks before Christmas the past 2 years.  Ravens made the playoffs without him this season--and his backup had a better game than Jackson has ever had in the playoffs.

 

The Ravens were a more successful team with Flacco than Jackson, hands down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, purple haze said:

They won’t.  That does them no good. Same way the Texans  eventually traded Watson.

Yeah after making him sit out a year lmao

[Teddy KGB]

Lamar’s playoff performances are colluding against him 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Doesn’t have a prayer of getting that kind of guaranteed money.  He really needs an agent.

 

Since he does not have a prayer of chance maybe he should try the other guy. 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

His market value is what the market determines.  Since neither the Ravens nor any other team feels he's worth a fully guaranteed contract, that's his market.

 

 

He's needs a reality check.  An agent would fire him as a client soon after being hired.

 

Agree on agent.  Issue is not the guaranteed contract, it is how much he wants in guaranteed contract. 

If he was getting a Kirk Cousins type of contract it would be different.

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Since he does not have a prayer of chance maybe he should try the other guy. 

 

Agree on agent.  Issue is not the guaranteed contract, it is how much he wants in guaranteed contract. 

If he was getting a Kirk Cousins type of contract it would be different.

 

He was offered Kirk Cousins type of contract and he turned it down.

[ColoradoBills]

This debate just keeps going.  IF these huge $ fully guaranteed QB contracts become the norm, there will come a time that a team(s) (and its fans)

will truly regret it.  These contracts have a risk of destroying a franchise.

I will add to my observation using Deshaun Watson as an example.

 

Watson has restructured this year pushing his cost for the next 3 seasons to $64M per year.  What if Deshaun suffers a serious injury that is

NOT career ending?  What is this injury limits a QB and the team is perpetually a sub .500 team?  They can't cut him and they surely couldn't

trade him.  The Browns already have $9M pushed out into a void year in 2027.  

 

Think of teams from a few years back that could have been saddled with these types of contracts.  Wentz would still be on the Eagles and

the Ravens may never have had the option of drafting Lamar if Joe Flacco's contract was fully guaranteed.  This is right off the top of my head.

 

Personally, I don't think it's good for the league.

[The Jokeman]

21 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Jets should go all in on Lamar over Rodgers. This boils down to do you want a just turned 26 year old, or soon to 40 year old leading your franchise? 

The Jets coaching staff and GM probably know they're on a short list after failing with Zach Wilson. Rodgers is a more plug and producer than Lamar. If they can make it the playoffs in 2023 they likely can secure another two to three seasons.

[QLBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

The Jets coaching staff and GM probably know they're on a short list after failing with Zach Wilson. Rodgers is a more plug and producer than Lamar. If they can make it the playoffs in 2023 they likely can secure another two to three seasons.

Lamar is so much more challenging to coach. Rodgers w his hand picked OC will be set to go. Hackett post Denver disaster then gets Lamar who needs a very specific offensive design. Certainly better than what they have had, but it’s no automatic it will work day 1 🤷🏻‍♂️

[The Jokeman]

Just now, QLBillsFan said:

Lamar is so much more challenging to coach. Rodgers w his hand picked OC will be set to go. Hackett post Denver disaster then gets Lamar who needs a very specific offensive design. Certainly better than what they have had, but it’s no automatic it will work day 1 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh I agree the Jets have questions at OL, TE and RB. Even with their additions am not sold on their WRs either. 

[purple haze]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Yeah after making him sit out a year lmao

Possibly.  But that doesn’t help them.  Jackson will get paid eventually.  He’ll be fine.  Good luck to the Ravens on their QB hunt.  Maybe they find a better one.  Maybe not.

[purple haze]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Paid him what...a fully guaranteed salary?  That's was never going to happen, no matter how much he demanded it.  You know this would be foolish.

 

What he has meant to the Ravens?  Well let's see..

 

5 seasons, 101 passing TDs.  24 rushing TDs.  One season over 3000 yards.  3 playoff appearances in  a row to start his career: threw total of 3 TDs vs 5 ints. 1 win.  Season has ended weeks before Christmas the past 2 years.  Ravens made the playoffs without him this season--and his backup had a better game than Jackson has ever had in the playoffs.

 

The Ravens were a more successful team with Flacco than Jackson, hands down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cool.  If he’s no better than Flacco or Huntley, let him go.  Take the tag off or trade him.    Why hold onto him if the backup is better?     Play Huntley.  Good luck to them. 

[QLBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Cool.  If he’s no better than Flacco or Huntley, let him go.  Take the tag off or trade him.    Why hold onto him if the backup is better?     Play Huntley.  Good luck to them. 

Actually, the strategy the Ravens are employing is smart. The non exclusive forces other teams in the NFL to create his current market value which they can then match. They gave him the 133m  guaranteed offer which he didn’t think was of value. If they don’t match it they get 2# 1’s which allows them to move on. From a 12-14 ranked qb who has to some degree been figured out, injury prone, who needs an offense geared around his skills. That to me is the making the best of the situation. The Ravens will survive this. Lamar 🤷🏻‍♂️?

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Cool.  If he’s no better than Flacco or Huntley, let him go.  Take the tag off or trade him.    Why hold onto him if the backup is better?     Play Huntley.  Good luck to them. 

Huntley isn’t better.  He played better in his one playoff appearance

[purple haze]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

His market value is what the market determines.  Since neither the Ravens nor any other team feels he's worth a fully guaranteed contract, that's his market.

I think his market value is being manipulated by the owners, but it is what is.   He’s not getting that Watson deal even if there was an owner out there willing to give it to him.  Now, it’s about where he’ll play next.  

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, purple haze said:

I think his market value is being manipulated by the owners, but it is what is.   He’s not getting that Watson deal even if there was an owner out there willing to give it to him.  Now, it’s about where he’ll play next.  

If an owner felt he was worth it they would give it to him. Of course the NFL is in control. The Browns Watson contract was irresponsible and foolish. That’s not the NFL. Mahomes maybe Burrow ? Josh ? Herbert. Not Lamar he’s just not that good. 

[purple haze]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Actually, the strategy the Ravens are employing is smart. The non exclusive forces other teams in the NFL to create his current market value which they can then match. They gave him the 133m  guaranteed offer which he didn’t think was of value. If they don’t match it they get 2# 1’s which allows them to move on. From a 12-14 ranked qb who has to some degree been figured out, injury prone, who needs an offense geared around his skills. That to me is the making the best of the situation. The Ravens will survive this. Lamar 🤷🏻‍♂️?

Jackson will get paid somewhere.  The Ravens don’t want to lose him.  They could trade him for two picks already.  They want other teams to do their work for them and they want to be able to say they had no choice but to let him go.  It’s all optics.  I get it though.

 

No guarantees they find a better QB.  It’s a crap shoot.   A lot of teams have been in that QB desert for years.  

[QLBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Jackson will get paid somewhere.  The Ravens don’t want to lose him.  They could trade him for two picks already.  They want other teams to do their work for them and they want to be able to say they had no choice but to let him go.  It’s all optics.  I get it though.

 

No guarantees they find a better QB.  It’s a crap shoot.   A lot of teams have been in that QB desert for years.  

Yes agree that I think they prefer to keep him. He’s certainly good and it’s not impossible that he can lead them to the SB. The QB desert is real and the Ravens would be set back if he goes. It remains to be seen how long that set back is. 

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

Jackson will get paid somewhere.  The Ravens don’t want to lose him.  They could trade him for two picks already.  They want other teams to do their work for them and they want to be able to say they had no choice but to let him go.  It’s all optics.  I get it though.

 

No guarantees they find a better QB.  It’s a crap shoot.   A lot of teams have been in that QB desert for years.  

What do you mean they could trade him for 2 picks already? Who is negotiating with Lamar right now?

[Doc]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

I think his market value is being manipulated by the owners, but it is what is.   He’s not getting that Watson deal even if there was an owner out there willing to give it to him.  Now, it’s about where he’ll play next.  

And how much less than fully guaranteed he’ll be forced to accept?

[BillsShredder83]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:37 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

My understanding is the tag rules are written in stone.  I can't ever recall anyone mentioning that is an option, but I could be wrong.

Cant the Ravens revoke the tag and just negotiate their own deal at this point though? Seems like a silly thing for the NFL to block. The two 1sts is there to protect the team that used the tag, if they want to negotiate for something less, it seems weird to stop them from doing it.

 

I dont think it sets a precedent that takes away value of the tag for other teams down the road. weird

[DaggersEOD]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

I think his market value is being manipulated by the owners, but it is what is.   He’s not getting that Watson deal even if there was an owner out there willing to give it to him.  Now, it’s about where he’ll play next.  

This is something that may have legs to it. The supposed collusion of owners against the SF QB (name escapes me) was obviously a joke, but I can see collusion in this instance because he doesn’t “play by the rules” and get a “union approved agent”. 
 

There was also collusion against Jeff Saturday for the same reason. He didn’t/doesn’t kiss the ring of the powers that be, so all the powers unite to make sure no one else tries to do the same. 
 

There are examples of this throughout our society IMO. These are the areas where actual “good ol’ boy” networks operate/thrive. They may not necessarily try to keep down one particular class/race but they will do everything possible to protect the system/network that benefits them. 
 

In this instance, no agent? Then constant mockery in the media and devaluation.
 

Or maybe everyone’s on the up and up 🤷‍♂️

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

This is something that may have legs to it. The supposed collusion of owners against the SF QB (name escapes me) was obviously a joke, but I can see collusion in this instance because he doesn’t “play by the rules” and get a “union approved agent”. 
 

There was also collusion against Jeff Saturday for the same reason. He didn’t/doesn’t kiss the ring of the powers that be, so all the powers unite to make sure no one else tries to do the same. 
 

There are examples of this throughout our society IMO. These are the areas where actual “good ol’ boy” networks operate/thrive. They may not necessarily try to keep down one particular class/race but they will do everything possible to protect the system/network that benefits them. 
 

In this instance, no agent? Then constant mockery in the media and devaluation.
 

Or maybe everyone’s on the up and up 🤷‍♂️

We are just seeing the unstoppable force meet the immovable object.

 

QB value has been a non-stop train for the last 20 years. It's gone up and up and up.  Combine that with a young QB with a recent history of true greatness, a more recent history of injury concerns and weirdness and #1 in the NFL contract demands, and eventually, decision-makers in the NFL said, "it's not worth that."

 

Allen and Mahomes are not stupid.  They could have both asked for what Lamar did. They may have gotten it, they may not have.  But what they definitely didn't want is this contract ugliness that will poison their national personas. How much is Mahomes making from State Farm?  How much is Allen making from Gillette or whatever comes next?

 

That's why Lamar is an idiot. If you are a superstar in the NFL, playing QB, you don't quibble over a couple million in guarantees.  You sign endorsement deals and make hay while the sun shines.

Edited March 27, 2023 by FireChans

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

This is something that may have legs to it. The supposed collusion of owners against the SF QB (name escapes me) was obviously a joke, but I can see collusion in this instance because he doesn’t “play by the rules” and get a “union approved agent”. 
 

There was also collusion against Jeff Saturday for the same reason. He didn’t/doesn’t kiss the ring of the powers that be, so all the powers unite to make sure no one else tries to do the same. 
 

There are examples of this throughout our society IMO. These are the areas where actual “good ol’ boy” networks operate/thrive. They may not necessarily try to keep down one particular class/race but they will do everything possible to protect the system/network that benefits them. 
 

In this instance, no agent? Then constant mockery in the media and devaluation.
 

Or maybe everyone’s on the up and up 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Teams don't care if you act as your own agent.

 

Jeff Saturday was.....colluded against?  lol

[BillsShredder83]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

This debate just keeps going.  IF these huge $ fully guaranteed QB contracts become the norm, there will come a time that a team(s) (and its fans)

will truly regret it.  These contracts have a risk of destroying a franchise.

I will add to my observation using Deshaun Watson as an example.

 

Watson has restructured this year pushing his cost for the next 3 seasons to $64M per year.  What if Deshaun suffers a serious injury that is

NOT career ending?  What is this injury limits a QB and the team is perpetually a sub .500 team?  They can't cut him and they surely couldn't

trade him.  The Browns already have $9M pushed out into a void year in 2027.  

 

Think of teams from a few years back that could have been saddled with these types of contracts.  Wentz would still be on the Eagles and

the Ravens may never have had the option of drafting Lamar if Joe Flacco's contract was fully guaranteed.  This is right off the top of my head.

 

Personally, I don't think it's good for the league.

The only way possible this ever becomes the norm, is if somehow QB contracts are separated from the salary cap. the money itself isnt the problem here, its the salary cap consequences. that will never happen either. qbs make up a very small % of players in the nfl. i cant see the rest of players being willing to accept the concessions that would be required for this.  it would turn into a microcosm of our country, destruction of the middle class, so that QBs can boost their already astronomical contracts.

none of this will happen. down the road it doesnt seem like Bengals owner can afford a fully guaranteed deal from my understanding.  thats going to be a very interesting negotiation to watch, with hugeeeeee ramifications of all deals going forward. you can have long term, or you can have guaranteed, but you cant have both. i just cant see it, and especially not with a non pocket qb

[FireChans]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Teams don't care if you act as your own agent.

 

Jeff Saturday was.....colluded against?  lol

They colluded against him winning games because he questioned authority!

[The Jokeman]

58 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

This is something that may have legs to it. The supposed collusion of owners against the SF QB (name escapes me) was obviously a joke, but I can see collusion in this instance because he doesn’t “play by the rules” and get a “union approved agent”. 
 

There was also collusion against Jeff Saturday for the same reason. He didn’t/doesn’t kiss the ring of the powers that be, so all the powers unite to make sure no one else tries to do the same. 
 

There are examples of this throughout our society IMO. These are the areas where actual “good ol’ boy” networks operate/thrive. They may not necessarily try to keep down one particular class/race but they will do everything possible to protect the system/network that benefits them. 
 

In this instance, no agent? Then constant mockery in the media and devaluation.
 

Or maybe everyone’s on the up and up 🤷‍♂️

I think the only collusion among owners is that no QB is going to get a guaranteed contract like Watson got likely ever again. In terms of them not pursuing Lamar I think it has to do with thought he wants big guaranteed money and with him not having an agent it makes it harder to negotiate as let's face it most of us value ourselves above what we're worth and if get offered significantly lesser get offended and look to move on. That's part of an agent's job is to be the middle man to find a fair contract for their client or let their client know their worth from a negotiating point of view. I fully expect Lamar to play on a franchise tag this year and see if he performs better under a more traditional coach, if he does he'll get a long term deal, if not he could be traded or not re-signed after 2023. 

[Gunvald's Husse]

1 hour ago, DaggersEOD said:

There was also collusion against Jeff Saturday for the same reason. He didn’t/doesn’t kiss the ring of the powers that be, so all the powers unite to make sure no one else tries to do the same. 

So the PTB colluded to make him completely unqualified for the HC job and further colluded to make him finish with a 1-7 record? 🙄

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Atlanta should be all over this trade. 

[FireChans]

Lmao Lamar oh noes bb what are u doin

 

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1640365877315903496?s=46&t=GGNmxHtuMQWK-ZEccAMZsQ

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by FireChans

[Draconator]

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Patriots gonna get him

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

 

No no no, it’s so much worse. He demanded a trade a month ago.

 

So to recap, super agent Lamar has:

 

Not gotten any traction in a trade market for a month

Not gotten any traction in a two first rounders and a fully guaranteed contract in 20 days

 

Who are the Colts bidding against then? Lmao this dude is horrible.

[SCBills]

This Harbaugh press conference at the league meeting isn't awkward at all....

 

The second he sits down, first question to him "Lamar just tweeted....."

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Patriots gonna get him

No chance. 

[DaggersEOD]

55 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Teams don't care if you act as your own agent.

 

Jeff Saturday was.....colluded against?  lol

Oh you didn’t watch any news during the fiasco. The condemnation/mockery was fairly universal. 
 

There have been much worse to hold the HC position.