NFL.com ranking teams WR situations before free agency/draft

[BADOLBILZ]

Bills......needy:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-offseason-all-32-teams-wr-situations-ahead-of-free-agency-draft

[Success]

Pretty fair assessment.

 

We didn't get to see too much of Crowder - but honestly, I thought he made a big difference when he was in.  He seemed like he was turning into a very good 3rd down guy.

 

The homer in me also holds out hope for Davis, and thinks Shakir could take a big next step.  Don't ask the non-homer.

 

[philholbroo]

Mckenzie going to be released, for cap purposes, unless he redoes contract. Could/Probably see a resign on any of those 3 FAs. This years overall FA class not too great and teams not really wanting to trade wrs with low cap numbers so really need to look at draft again.

[gobills404]

37 minutes ago, Success said:

We didn't get to see too much of Crowder - but honestly, I thought he made a big difference when he was in.  He seemed like he was turning into a very good 3rd down guy.

Hard disagree. Probably just needed more time to get comfortable in a new offense, but he wasn’t good at all during those first 4 games of the season. Caught less than half his targets and IIRC had one bounce of his hands for an interception.

Edited February 23, 2023 by gobills404

[Mango]

I think we’d be fine with Davis if Knox was targeted more consistently and/or we had a real NFL slot receiver. 
 

Diggs targets are fine. I wouldn’t move those up or down significantly. But I would be much more equitable behind him. In that environment, I don’t think fans are so down on Davis. He’ll be considered a weapon not a liability. 
 

The Bills have 1 player over 50 catches, KC has 3. We need to do a better job of making defenses cover everybody. That will help the OL, Diggs, our RB’s, and Allen. There’s some blame to go around on why that doesn’t happen including OC, QB, and the WR themselves. 
 

I won’t miss Beasley or Kumerow at all. They were both useless in the pass game. We barely knew Crowder. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Mango

[BuffBillsForLife]

The Bills desperately need a 1B receiver like Higgins.  Davis has stone hands and is a #3 at best.  Shakir has potential but I'm not going to bet the farm on him as my #2.  Bease and Crowder are interchangable slot guys.  McKenzie should be shipped off to Siberia.  

 

Just my 2c.

[ShakAttack]

Corey Davis. If the Jets cut him, he would be very intriguing to me. Former 5th overall pick for a reason. Allen could maximize his talent.

[MJS]

3 hours ago, philholbroo said:

Mckenzie going to be released, for cap purposes, unless he redoes contract. Could/Probably see a resign on any of those 3 FAs. This years overall FA class not too great and teams not really wanting to trade wrs with low cap numbers so really need to look at draft again.

I'm done with the McKenzie experiment, personally. I do not want to see him back.

[philholbroo]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

I'm done with the McKenzie experiment, personally. I do not want to see him back.

same.

[Ayjent]

They need a reliable slot guy more than anything and McKenzie isn’t it. He missed his opportunity and was just too afraid of contact to be what the Bills need.  I don’t blame him for that bc that takes being half nuts to play the position well, but the Bills need that more than anything in the passing game. I also think they need more physicality overall on offense with wrs and TEs that can block well in the screen and run game.  There are a lot of easy plays they don’t have bc they really don’t have effective blocking outside and they don’t get playmakers any room to move in space for RAC. Some of the low RAC is also bc Josh is running around making time and the passes are just darts that aren’t timing or designed. 
 

Parker Washington might be a decent pick in 3rd Rd to fill that role of a good blocking, tough slot receiver.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ayjent

[Airseven]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm done with the McKenzie experiment, personally. I do not want to see him back.

You could say that about several other players too, but they can’t afford to create more holes on this roster with so many needs already. There aren’t enough realistic avenues to upgrade. We can hope Beane hits on one or two early draft picks and adds a couple second-tier free agents who can play, but that’s about it.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Airseven

[OldTimer1960]

I think most of us agree with that assessment.  I think there is still an outside chance that Davis improves his hands - as Knox and Zay Jones did after having problems with drops, but best not to count on that.

 

I’m not sure that there are great options available in FA - at least that the team can afford.  As far as the draft, I think the team will need luck in how the draft falls in order to address WR early this year.  I think this is a mediocre WR class, but views of prospects can change at the combine next week.  I fear that any WR left at 27 will be at least a minor stretch for that pick and I won’t be very surprised if the to 10 WRs are off the board before the Bills’ 2nd pick.  Last year’s class seemed stronger than this year’s, but 13 WRs were selected before pick 59.

 

Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t find a good WR prospect, just that it won’t be easy.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 - we definitely need an upgrade in talent. I wish we had an Elijah Moore type.

 

2 - it’s crazy how much criticism that Fields and Jackson get because they are completely surrounded by junk. If the Bears upgrade their receivers, I can see him being a real problem.

 

3 - KC has an underrated crappy receiving core and it just adds to how great Mahomes is despite fans trying to hype up MVS.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - we definitely need an upgrade in talent. I wish we had an Elijah Moore type.

 

2 - it’s crazy how much criticism that Fields and Jackson get because they are completely surrounded by junk. If the Bears upgrade their receivers, I can see him being a real problem.

 

3 - KC has an underrated crappy receiving core and it just adds to how great Mahomes is despite fans trying to hype up MVS.

Point 3 is spot on.  Mahomes is great and he did it with average receivers (but a great TE).

[frostbitmic]

Cut McKittrick, let Kumerow play Special Teams elsewhere, Crowder is always hurt.

 

Bring back the band part II ... This time include Sammy...Diggs, Davis, Shakur, Beasley, Brown, Watkins ... Problems solved 😁

 

Next problem, buying an O-Line with minimal funds.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm done with the McKenzie experiment, personally. I do not want to see him back.

Same here. Time to move on.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

 

3 - KC has an underrated crappy receiving core and it just adds to how great Mahomes is despite fans trying to hype up MVS.

 

You can get away with MVS, Juju etc., when your TE is in his prime and, perhaps, the greatest to ever play the position.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

3 - KC has an underrated crappy receiving core and it just adds to how great Mahomes is despite fans trying to hype up MVS.

 

KC was ridiculed here trading Hill last off-season, but their plan to feature Kelce and a sum is greater than the parts WR group obviously was enough for Mahomes.  No one flashy among that latter group, and their points scored even increased slightly.  

 

OBD will have a renewed emphasis on offense this off-season, but it's purely reactive.  Another thread opined that it's not poor draft execution, but strategy and that should be expanded to all personnel acquisitions.  Buffalo tends to fix issues in one off-season only after an issue has emerged in the previous year which in this case is a less than adequate investment on offense.

 

One of the weaknesses of the structure at OBD is Buffalo is led by a coach who is a more pedestrian mind, particularly on offense.  For all the criticism of Dorsey, the OC and QB did not have the WR/TE talent necessary to maximize offensive production.  That should have been anticipated after 2021, but alas, here we are.    

 

    

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

KC was ridiculed here trading Hill last off-season, but their plan to feature Kelce and a sum is greater than the parts WR group obviously was enough for Mahomes.  No one flashy among that latter group, and their points scored even increased slightly.  

 

OBD will have a renewed emphasis on offense this off-season, but it's purely reactive.  Another thread opined that it's not poor draft execution, but strategy and that should be expanded to all personnel acquisitions.  Buffalo tends to fix issues in one off-season only after an issue has emerged in the previous year which in this case is a less than adequate investment on offense.

 

One of the weaknesses of the structure at OBD is Buffalo is led by a coach who is a more pedestrian mind, particularly on offense.  For all the criticism of Dorsey, the OC and QB did not have the WR/TE talent necessary to maximize offensive production.  That should have been anticipated after 2021, but alas, here we are.    

 

    

But see what KC did? 

 

They loaded on B- / B WRs. 

 

They went 5-deep after Kelce. 

 

When Hardman went down, JuJu and MVS stepped right in, when Toney pulled his hamstring, Skyy Moore was right there. 

 

 

[Jimmy Harris 69]

Why not give Hines a shot at receiver? Speed. Good YAC potential. He is making $4.8m (?); reasonable for a receiver. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Bills? 

 

They have no numbers. 

 

They need Diggs, Davis, and unfortunately, McKenzie to stay healthy, because there is no one on the bench. 

 

Toney is a 1st Rounder, Skyy Moore is a 2nd Rounder, JuJu is a former 2nd Round pick, Hardman is a 2nd Round pick, MVS is a 5th Rounder. 

 

The Bills depth chart is McKenzie a 5th Rounder, Shakir a 5th Rounder, then off a cliff to Beasley, John Brown, Jamison Crowder. 

 

 

TALENT TALENT TALENT TALENT GAP. 

 

 

Beane hopefully learned his lesson, signing old guys at the end of their careers at WR doesn't work. I would have thought the Emmanuel Sanders experience would have shown the Bills this. 

 

But next offseason, it was Jamison Crowder again. 

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said:

Why not give Hines a shot at receiver? Speed. Good YAC potential. He is making $4.8m (?); reasonable for a receiver. 

 

Getting Hines on the field with the offense would be a nice first step.  The way Beane pursued a pass-catching RB, and the subsequent underutilization in that role, indicates a huge disconnect between Dorsey/McDermott/Beane.

[BADOLBILZ]

36 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills? 

 

They have no numbers. 

 

They need Diggs, Davis, and unfortunately, McKenzie to stay healthy, because there is no one on the bench. 

 

Toney is a 1st Rounder, Skyy Moore is a 2nd Rounder, JuJu is a former 2nd Round pick, Hardman is a 2nd Round pick, MVS is a 5th Rounder. 

 

The Bills depth chart is McKenzie a 5th Rounder, Shakir a 5th Rounder, then off a cliff to Beasley, John Brown, Jamison Crowder. 

 

 

TALENT TALENT TALENT TALENT GAP. 

 

 

Beane hopefully learned his lesson, signing old guys at the end of their careers at WR doesn't work. I would have thought the Emmanuel Sanders experience would have shown the Bills this. 

 

But next offseason, it was Jamison Crowder again. 

 

 

Yeah I gotta' disagree with @C.Biscuit97 that KC receiving corps sucks.

 

Kelce is great, obviously,  and the position he plays is basically a slot receiver which makes for tons of what amounts to "easy pitch and catch" for Mahomes.    Then Juju is a solid #2......and a high end slot receiver.    Basically their corps is built from the inside out which is a philosophy the Bills should be using, IMO, rather than trying to patch up the slot with modest talent again.  

 

Outside MVS and Gabe Davis are the closest equivalents of two WR's types of production as you will see in the NFL.   MVS clocks much faster but they make the same kind of plays and failures.  

 

And KC knew that all wasn't quite enough so they went out and grabbed the big play talent in Toney.

 

Their WR corps doesn't have that 1A + 1B that it had in years past but it's deep,  with 3 players who should be on $10M+ aav deals after Juju re-signs and recent 1st and 2nd round picks in Toney and Moore.   

[Straight Hucklebuck]

57 minutes ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said:

Why not give Hines a shot at receiver? Speed. Good YAC potential. He is making $4.8m (?); reasonable for a receiver. 

Because he has no length, and no experience going against NFL corners. 
 

How about cut McKenzie, don’t bother with Beasley, Brown, Crowder or Kumerow and sign two FAs and draft a R1 talent?

 

That’s learning from what the Chiefs did. They went 5-deep at WR and were in a good position to weather injury and have interchangeable pieces. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Harris 69 said:

Why not give Hines a shot at receiver? Speed. Good YAC potential. He is making $4.8m (?); reasonable for a receiver. 

 

 

Better yet,  release Hines.........and ultimately employ Diggs in the slot.

 

Flip the script from patching a hole to making the position the strength of your passing game.

 

The last two SB winners put their best receiving talent in the slot..........that isn't a long trend but it makes a lot of sense........there are more free releases inside and a quick option for your QB who is also elite is great for keeping that QB on schedule, efficient and healthy.

 

[78thealltimegreat]

They have a number 3 receiver in Davis  playing the 2 and they have a number 3 receiver in McKenzie playing in the nfl when the league he should be in started last weekend.

 They need badly to get a number 2 so Davis can slide to the 3 and Shakur can move to the 4 and also so if Diggs gets into Diva mode they can move him next year when the cap hit will be less.

 They also badly need to look at the 2TE spot since the Bills really don’t have one on the roster. 

[jkeerie]

Totally agree on the McKenzie takes.  I was so disappointed in him this year.  I rewatched the Bills vs Chiefs game from October this week, and he single-handedly almost cost us the game.  I also think he talks too much and exacerbates issues that really are much ado about nothing.  Generally speaking, he's clueless on the field and off.

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Toney is a 1st Rounder, Skyy Moore is a 2nd Rounder, JuJu is a former 2nd Round pick, Hardman is a 2nd Round pick, MVS is a 5th Rounder. 

 

JuJu is an UFA and Spotrac has his market value at $14.6M and Hardman is an UFA too with a $10.3M value.

It's going to be interesting to see what KC does with them.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I gotta' disagree with @C.Biscuit97 that KC receiving corps sucks.

 

Kelce is great, obviously,  and the position he plays is basically a slot receiver which makes for tons of what amounts to "easy pitch and catch" for Mahomes.    Then Juju is a solid #2......and a high end slot receiver.    Basically their corps is built from the inside out which is a philosophy the Bills should be using, IMO, rather than trying to patch up the slot with modest talent again.  

 

Outside MVS and Gabe Davis are the closest equivalents of two WR's types of production as you will see in the NFL.   MVS clocks much faster but they make the same kind of plays and failures.  

 

And KC knew that all wasn't quite enough so they went out and grabbed the big play talent in Toney.

 

Their WR corps doesn't have that 1A + 1B that it had in years past but it's deep,  with 3 players who should be on $10M+ aav deals after Juju re-signs and recent 1st and 2nd round picks in Toney and Moore.   

Put that group with an average qb- say Ryan Tannehill, it is the one of the worst groups in the nfl. All of those guys besides juju (who has regressed since his rookie year), all had their best seasons of the careers with Mahomes. It’s not a coincidence. I think the Pats, Bears, and Ravens are worst but there aren’t too many more I’d put them ahead of it.

 

where do slot KC and where do you slot the Bills?  I know some bills try to find any way to discredit mahomes but the groups are pretty similar.

13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

JuJu is an UFA and Spotrac has his market value at $14.6M and Hardman is an UFA too with a $10.3M value.

It's going to be interesting to see what KC does with them.

I bet they both walk. Juju is annoying and is basically a possession number 2 at best and Hardman is whatever. Won’t be shocked if they draft a guy high or make another trade. Probably shouldn’t count on Toney because he’s made of our glass but he would be really dangerous if he could stay healthy. Plus, the drafted Moore in the 2nd last year.

 

the bills will have to do this strategy pretty soon too. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by C.Biscuit97

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

But see what KC did? 

 

They loaded on B- / B WRs. 

 

They went 5-deep after Kelce. 

 

When Hardman went down, JuJu and MVS stepped right in, when Toney pulled his hamstring, Skyy Moore was right there. 

 

KC could do that when they unloaded Hill and his cap hit...which went toward additional receivers.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/chiefs-trading-wr-tyreek-hill-to-dolphins-for-multiple-draft-picks

 

The opening line to this article is hilarious, considering less than 11 months later KC would win another SB without him.

 

And KC parlayed that 1st (29th) from the Hill trade along with a 3rd and 4th into moving up, taking the CB McDuffie.  And then took a DE with their own 1st.  

 

Not saying all these moves and players were perfect...but it shows a desire to improve even as a perennial contender.  That type of continuous improvement and boldness has been there in Buffalo occasionally, but it's more of a risk averse culture there.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills? 

 

They have no numbers. 

 

They need Diggs, Davis, and unfortunately, McKenzie to stay healthy, because there is no one on the bench. 

 

Toney is a 1st Rounder, Skyy Moore is a 2nd Rounder, JuJu is a former 2nd Round pick, Hardman is a 2nd Round pick, MVS is a 5th Rounder. 

 

The Bills depth chart is McKenzie a 5th Rounder, Shakir a 5th Rounder, then off a cliff to Beasley, John Brown, Jamison Crowder. 

 

 

TALENT TALENT TALENT TALENT GAP. 

 

 

Beane hopefully learned his lesson, signing old guys at the end of their careers at WR doesn't work. I would have thought the Emmanuel Sanders experience would have shown the Bills this. 

 

But next offseason, it was Jamison Crowder again. 

You are really counting their draft selection? Come on man. Check KC’s receivers career stats. Besides one good year from Juju, they are the definition of JAGs. Gabe Davis would have the second best career average of any receiver on KC. 
 

completely agree the Bills need to get better and deeper. But mahomes made those guys serviceable.

[Buffalo Junction]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I gotta' disagree with @C.Biscuit97 that KC receiving corps sucks.

 

Kelce is great, obviously,  and the position he plays is basically a slot receiver which makes for tons of what amounts to "easy pitch and catch" for Mahomes.    Then Juju is a solid #2......and a high end slot receiver.    Basically their corps is built from the inside out which is a philosophy the Bills should be using, IMO, rather than trying to patch up the slot with modest talent again.  

 

Outside MVS and Gabe Davis are the closest equivalents of two WR's types of production as you will see in the NFL.   MVS clocks much faster but they make the same kind of plays and failures.  

 

And KC knew that all wasn't quite enough so they went out and grabbed the big play talent in Toney.

 

Their WR corps doesn't have that 1A + 1B that it had in years past but it's deep,  with 3 players who should be on $10M+ aav deals after Juju re-signs and recent 1st and 2nd round picks in Toney and Moore.   

The bigger difference is that KC shored up its Oline, and turned it into a strength. That improved the running game and allowed Mahomes extra time to find the 3rd and 4th option. Couple that with the best offensive coach in the game and Kelce and you have a formula that works. Their WR corps doesn’t suck, but it’s a lot of guys who fill specific roles and need some additional scheming (Reid’s strength).
 

By contrast, we had a first year OC trying to scheme around an Oline that too often had Knox’s routes delayed while chipping, and Allen playing off script after his first or second read. This Bills team certainly needs more talent at WR, but without fixing the Oline they won’t be able to use upgraded talent consistently. They absolutely need to find some improved physical talent though. Maybe shore up guard, see if they can nab a Paris Campbell on a prove it deal, and find a reliable slot. No clue how they do it with the current cap, but 🤷‍♂️ it’s gotta happen. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

You can get away with MVS, Juju etc., when your TE is in his prime and, perhaps, the greatest to ever play the position.

You can get away with it if your qb is Mahomes. 
 

I get it. We’re Bills fans. but we always are trying to discredit him. That is a pedestrian group with the far majority of all other qbs. He won a SB with them 

2 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Cut McKittrick, let Kumerow play Special Teams elsewhere, Crowder is always hurt.

 

Bring back the band part II ... This time include Sammy...Diggs, Davis, Shakur, Beasley, Brown, Watkins ... Problems solved 😁

 

Next problem, buying an O-Line with minimal funds.

Crazy part is I would talk myself into Sammy finally reaching his potential this time. That weirdo should have been so good. 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You can get away with it if your qb is Mahomes. 
 

I get it. We’re Bills fans. but we always are trying to discredit him. That is a pedestrian group with the far majority of all other qbs. He won a SB with them 

Crazy part is I would talk myself into Sammy finally reaching his potential this time. That weirdo should have been so good. 

 

Would you rather have:

 

Kelce, Juju, Toney, MVS, RD2 Pick and a Top 2 OL

 

or

 

Diggs, Knox, Davis, McKenzie, RD5 Pick and a bottom third OL?

 

 I won't even get into the coaching aspect.   Strictly talent based... tell me which situation you prefer?

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by SCBills

[newcam2012]

14 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Hard disagree. Probably just needed more time to get comfortable in a new offense, but he wasn’t good at all during those first 4 games of the season. Caught less than half his targets and IIRC had one bounce of his hands for an interception.

Agree on Crowder. His talent was never really an issue for me. He's not great but he would have positively contributed to the offense.

 

The real question was if he could stay on the field. The Bills gambled and lost. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by newcam2012

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

All of those guys besides juju (who has regressed since his rookie year), all had their best seasons of the careers with Mahomes.

 

Why do you just throw JuJu in as an exception as if that doesn't change your entire argument? His best season by far was in 2018. 1,400 yards and 7 TDs. Then Antonio Brown left and he had a few injury plagued seasons. He signed for a prove-it one year deal not because he isn't talented but because of his injury history. This year he stayed mostly healthy and once again had a #1 elite target drawing attention away from him. Only on here is it a debate between JuJu and Gabe Davis. In the rest of the NFL world everyone knows JuJu has the talent to be a #2 target. Davis was a fun fantasy football debate in the offseason but after failing to take advantage of his opportunity he has dropped out of the national radar. Analysts like Greg Cosell and Chris Simms talk about it all the time - Allen has less around him than any other QB that's worth a damn.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by HappyDays

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Would you rather have:

 

Kelce, Juju, Toney, MVS, RD2 Pick and a Top 2 OL

 

or

 

Diggs, Knox, Davis, McKenzie, RD5 Pick and a bottom third OL?

 

 I won't even get into the coaching aspect.   Strictly talent based... tell me which situation you prefer?

 

 

 

Are you saying tje Chiefs know how to build a Championship team? 

 

Are you implying the Chiefs coaching is very good?

 

What are you trying to say about Buffalo's organization amd coaching? 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Are you saying tje Chiefs know how to build a Championship team? 

 

Are you implying the Chiefs coaching is very good?

 

What are you trying to say about Buffalo's organization amd coaching? 

 

Yes

 

Yes

 

To be determined.  So far, they've shown they can build/lead a playoff team.  They have not shown they can build/lead a championship team, yet. 

[HappyDays]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Juju is annoying and is basically a possession number 2 at best

 

I would love a possession number 2 "at best." That's what Beasley was for us in 2020 which was arguably when our passing offense looked the most consistent. Davis is not a possession receiver or a #2. He's a boom or bust downfield option that primarily should be a #3 target "at best" in a championship caliber passing offense. That's what he was for us in 2020 and looked like a perfect fit in that role.

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You can get away with it if your qb is Mahomes. 
 

I get it. We’re Bills fans. but we always are trying to discredit him.

 

Nobody is trying to discredit Mahomes. The point is that he had better pass catchers and better RBs and a better OL and better play design and play calling. Allen literally had no advantage over him at any level of the offense. If the Chiefs ran it back with the same exact offensive cast as last year no one would bat an eye. If the Bills did everyone would expect disappointment. That's the point. We have a ton of work to do to catch up to the other contenders.