Greatest Individual Season in Buffalo History

[Big Turk]

Forgot Pat LaFontaine's 53-95-148 line in the same season as Mogilny's 76 goals that still stands as the franchise record for most points and assists in a season...he was the one assisting on the majority of those goals for Mogilny...just an amazing player to watch. Mogilny is 2nd on that point total list with 127. Hawerchuk is 7th with 98 points and they all came during the same season...must have been one of the best lines in NHL history in terms of single season points(probably can't compare to the 80s Oilers lines, but still).

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

40 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Travis Henry fathered 11 children during the 2002 season.  Still an NFL record.

/thread.  Internet now closed for the rest of the day. 😁

[Simon]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

98-99 Domink Hasek: Carried a flawed roster 6 games into the Stanley Cup Final. Won his 3rd Vezina with a .935 S% and 1.85 GAA. There’s an argument that 97-98 might be a better individual season, but he carried the entire team to the show. I think Hasek voter fatigue is the only reason he didn’t get the Hart trophy three years in a row. As I write this and think of all the other players that have come and gone, Hasek is likely the greatest athlete in Buffalo pro-sports history. 

 

There was a 3-4 year stretch in there that I am still convinced was the greatest sustained run of otherworldly excellence by any athlete in any sport in the world that I have ever seen in many decades of dedicated sports viewing. The only other person who I would even consider mentioning in the same breath regarding this would be Michael Jordan.

It wasn't just that Hasek was the best of the very best; it's that he was soooooo far beyond what any of his peers were doing that there were times that it became impossible to believe your own eyes. It went far beyond excellence and well into uncharted territory where not only was he doing things that nobody else could do, he was doing things that nobody else had ever considered even trying. It was like he was so good that being the best in the world was boring and he had to come up with other ways to keep himself entertained. "Routine 47-save shutouts are so cliche; I think I'll start redirecting pucks with my head". "Stopping multiple odd man rushes night after night with breakdance maneuvers is getting stale; I'm going to start clearing pucks by throwing them and then batting them out of the air with my stick". And it wasn't just for a week here and there; it was complete insanity and it went on regularly for years. 

I cannot think of any other instance in which the gap between the best player in the world and then the next 10 best players after him was as stunningly large. In such a relatively small market with a limited fanbase, I genuinely felt lucky to be one of the few people in the world that got to see something like that night after night. I'm confident that I will never again see anything like it in this lifetime.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

15 hours ago, Mango said:

Rudy Pikuzinski: Mullets and Mustaches

Stallions coach Luis Dabo's Tuesday night show on WEBR 970 am with Dave Kerner was not to be missed.  Coach Dabo was a hard nosed / old time type of disciplinarian compared to his players.

*
EDIT:  At times I recall Dave Kerner hosting, but I think Budd Bailey also handled the duties occasionally.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, Mango said:

Full offseason mode. What’s the greatest single season by one player in the cities professional sports history.
 

I’ll create a poll if this picks up, but thought I’d get feedback from some people a bit older than me. I certainly came of age for Buffalo Sports in the 90’s.
 

For me it’s easy and not close. Hasek in 99. 

 

98-99 Domink Hasek: Carried a flawed roster 6 games into the Stanley Cup Final. Won his 3rd Vezina with a .935 S% and 1.85 GAA. There’s an argument that 97-98 might be a better individual season, but he carried the entire team to the show. I think Hasek voter fatigue is the only reason he didn’t get the Hart trophy three years in a row. As I write this and think of all the other players that have come and gone, Hasek is likely the greatest athlete in Buffalo pro-sports history. 
 

1990 Bruce Smith: Bills make their first run to the Super Bowl. Bruce records 19 sacks only overshadowed by Derrick Thomas 20. 7th best season of all time all from the 3-4 DE.

 
1991 Thurman Thomas: 1400 rushing yards at 4.9 ypc. Plus 600 yards receiving. NFL MVP and OPOY. 7th best season by a RB at the time. 

92-93 Alexander Mogilny: 76 goals, 51 assists. 127 points. Tied Selanne in Goals. 7th in total points.  5th best season of all time. He is the only player in the top 30 not in the HoF. 

Rudy Pikuzinski: Mullets and Mustaches

I think Bruce had a significantly better season in 1996 than in 1990. He had fewer sacks, but IIRC he set the NFL record at the time for pressures (I think 47) by a wide margin and was a terror vs. the run--much better than in his earlier years. He was utterly unblockable that season. The Bills' defense was better in 1996 than in 1990 too. Note that PFR assigned him an AV of 21 in 1996 and an AV of 17 in 1990. He won defensive player of the year both years. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitBr00.htm

 

The Bills as a team had 48 sacks in 1996 and 43 in 1990. Bruce opened more up for more players in 1996.

2 hours ago, Mango said:

OJ deserves to be part of the conversation. But as impressive as that feat was, he didn’t even make the playoffs. Hasek single handily dragged the team 6 games in the Stanley Cup. 
 

Advantage Hasek. 

The Bills made it to the playoffs in 1974: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/1974.htm

Edited February 23, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Rico]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Do you count the Bandits? John Tavares won multiple MVPs and championships. One of his years probably should be up there

If you include the Sabres, you have to include the Bandits.

OJ 2003, nothing else close.

[hondo in seattle]

I'd vote for OJ: both the '75 and '73 seasons were amazing.

But, as an old-timer, I have to dig further back with Tommy Hughitt of Buffalo's original NFL team.  The 1920 and 1921 seasons both stand out.  

 

As player-coach, he led the All-Americans to a 9-1-1 record in 1920.   Tommy played QB on offense, LB on defense, and occasionally punted & kicked FGs.  The team began the season with four consecutive double-digit wins - an NFL record not tied till the Patriots of 2007 - and led the league in scoring by a wide margin.   The team claimed a share of the championship with a win percentage of .844 - same as the Akron Pros.  But the league meeting, led by the Akron owner, declared Akron the champions. 

 

The next year Hughitt led the team to an undefeated season - not including two exhibition games that not all players participated in.  Once again, Buffalo was screwed.  In an infamous miscarriage of justice known as the "Staley Swindle," the league decided to count the exhibition games and awarded the championship to Chicago.

 

Hughitt finished his coaching career with a .694 record which ranks 7th all-time among qualifying NFL coaches.   Twice he had the NFL championship stolen from him in controversial league decisions.  He should be in the HOF for his accomplishments as both a player and coach.   

 

www.profootballresearchers.org/biography/Hughitt_Tommy.pdf

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Coach55]

Butch Rolle's 87-91 seasons. 9 receptions for 9 consecutive TDs and 21 yards over 5 seasons.  Not sure anyone is beating that.  

[Mango]

31 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The Bills did make the playoffs in 1974.  This was OJ's only playoff game in his career. They lost to the Steelers.  

 

OJ was not on the field when the opponents had the ball, so he wasn't responsible for the defense's struggles.  Hasek was on the ice the entire game so he was in position to dominate, which he did.  You just can't compare them based on the team results.  Hasek was great, no doubt, but I put OJ's 1975 season on top of the list.  

 

Right, but nobody is calling OJ's 74 season the greatest season by an individual in Buffalo sports history. It is either 73 or 75.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2004 Brian Moorman lol

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

There was a 3-4 year stretch in there that I am still convinced was the greatest sustained run of otherworldly excellence by any athlete in any sport in the world that I have ever seen in many decades of dedicated sports viewing. The only other person who I would even consider mentioning in the same breath regarding this would be Michael Jordan.

It wasn't just that Hasek was the best of the very best; it's that he was soooooo far beyond what any of his peers were doing that there were times that it became impossible to believe your own eyes. It went far beyond excellence and well into uncharted territory where not only was he doing things that nobody else could do, he was doing things that nobody else had ever considered even trying. It was like he was so good that being the best in the world was boring and he had to come up with other ways to keep himself entertained. "Routine 47-save shutouts are so cliche; I think I'll start redirecting pucks with my head". "Stopping multiple odd man rushes night after night with breakdance maneuvers is getting stale; I'm going to start clearing pucks by throwing them and then batting them out of the air with my stick". And it wasn't just for a week here and there; it was complete insanity and it went on regularly for years. 

I cannot think of any other instance in which the gap between the best player in the world and then the next 10 best players after him was as stunningly large. In such a relatively small market with a limited fanbase, I genuinely felt lucky to be one of the few people in the world that got to see something like that night after night. I'm confident that I will never again see anything like it in this lifetime.

 

 

 

I fully agree. I don't think there is another player in Buffalo sports history that has a permanent bust on the Mount Rushmore of absolute all time best at their position. Bruce is likely the closest, and I think he is still a bit further back from Hasek. 

That 1998-99 team so was incredibly flawed. They simply were not good. 

Hasek on the current team would sky rocket the current Sabres roster to the very top of the standings. 

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not trying to be snarky but I’m interested to know if you were of age to witness OJs 1973 season. What he did that year was at that time considered to be akin to landing a man on mars. (And again I thought the purpose of this was about a single athlete, not team production or results) 

 

Oh I definitely wasn't. I meant to put in the OG post that I really didn't come of age until in Buffalo sports until the 90's.

[Mango]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Do you count the Bandits? John Tavares won multiple MVPs and championships. One of his years probably should be up there

 

I would love to include the Bandits. They are the most under rated event in town. An absolute blast to attend. But I honestly don't know anything about lacrosse and I don't follow it, so I have zero point of reference other that Tavares is a HoF and he played/coaches for my team. I just like going to the games. drinking beer, and cheering.

If somebody can name a season with any authority where Tavares was actually historically great, I would be happy to include it.

[uticaclub]

47 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I would love to include the Bandits. They are the most under rated event in town. An absolute blast to attend. But I honestly don't know anything about lacrosse and I don't follow it, so I have zero point of reference other that Tavares is a HoF and he played/coaches for my team. I just like going to the games. drinking beer, and cheering.

If somebody can name a season with any authority where Tavares was actually historically great, I would be happy to include it.

Same boat. Incredibly entertaining and have actually won championships, I just don't know enough and can’t rattle off names and stats like I can with hockey & football.

2 hours ago, Rico said:

If you include the Sabres, you have to include the Bandits.

OJ 2003, nothing else close.

Lax isn't considered a Big 4

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

There was a 3-4 year stretch in there that I am still convinced was the greatest sustained run of otherworldly excellence by any athlete in any sport in the world that I have ever seen in many decades of dedicated sports viewing. The only other person who I would even consider mentioning in the same breath regarding this would be Michael Jordan.

It wasn't just that Hasek was the best of the very best; it's that he was soooooo far beyond what any of his peers were doing that there were times that it became impossible to believe your own eyes. It went far beyond excellence and well into uncharted territory where not only was he doing things that nobody else could do, he was doing things that nobody else had ever considered even trying. It was like he was so good that being the best in the world was boring and he had to come up with other ways to keep himself entertained. "Routine 47-save shutouts are so cliche; I think I'll start redirecting pucks with my head". "Stopping multiple odd man rushes night after night with breakdance maneuvers is getting stale; I'm going to start clearing pucks by throwing them and then batting them out of the air with my stick". And it wasn't just for a week here and there; it was complete insanity and it went on regularly for years. 

I cannot think of any other instance in which the gap between the best player in the world and then the next 10 best players after him was as stunningly large. In such a relatively small market with a limited fanbase, I genuinely felt lucky to be one of the few people in the world that got to see something like that night after night. I'm confident that I will never again see anything like it in this lifetime.

 

 

 

The 81 save perfomance in the playoffs against the Devil's that the Sabres won 1-0 in 4 OTs still might be the best live event I have ever witnessed for excellence. He was on another planet that night. I don't care if New Jersey was shooting 3 pucks, none of them were going in the net.

 

Hasek was so good that he used to regularly get in the heads of his opponents who would sometimes try to make a shot too perfect because they knew they couldn't score otherwise and even when they did, many times he would still stop it anyway. Never saw so many players shake their head as if to say "what do I have to do to score on this guy" than I did with Hasek.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[HOUSE]

In 1985 I got a job and the whole stadium cheered.....

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

 

Oh I definitely wasn't. I meant to put in the OG post that I really didn't come of age until in Buffalo sports until the 90's.

No worries. But you really missed out. In the 1973 season opener in Foxboro, OJ took off on the opening series of the game for an 80 yard power pitch/sweep play around the right tackle, and I can still remember looking around and everyone in the room saying “THIS is going to be something really special” …and it truly was. He was literally unstoppable. 

[US Egg]

Hasek was “eerie” good. ‘73 O.J. was a spectacle.

 

Tough to backseat either.

 

The other impressives do not dazzle me as much.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Same boat. Incredibly entertaining and have actually won championships, I just don't know enough and can’t rattle off names and stats like I can with hockey & football.

Lax isn't considered a Big 4

There is only a Big 3 in the USA, all others are far below them.

[K-9]

8 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I'm not so sure that OJ in 1975 wasn't better than 1973. Had 2243 yards from scrimmage vs 2073 and set the NFL record with 23 TDs vs 12 in '73. He had 1800+ rushing yards and the Bills used him in the passing game a ton more in 1975.

Agree entirely as it was one of the best individual seasons in history to that point. 2243 scrimmage yards was unheard of at the time. I think the 2003 yards in ‘73 gets more notoriety simply due to the sheer historic weight of the feat. 

[Marvin]

13 hours ago, CSBill said:

Bob McAdoo = 1973 NBA Rookie of the year, or the 1975 NBA MVP (34.5 points, 14.1 rebounds. and 2.12 blocks per game, while shooting 51.2% from the field and 80.5% from the free-throw line) . . . . And his reward for that MVP season, they traded him (and Tom McMillen) for a hamburger and some cash to the Knicks--which was the beginning of the end of the Buffalo Braves.

It's worse than you made it.  On one of the games on YouTube, Brent Musberger said that the Braves "have supplanted the Knicks as the Celtics' main rival."  The money was specifically to cover the purchase of the team, yet John Y. Brown started threatening to move the team.

 

Oh, yeah.  I pick Hasek and then McAdoo.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Marvin

[GerstAusGosheim]

Dyngus Day season

[Mango]

3 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

Hasek was “eerie” good. ‘73 O.J. was a spectacle.

 

Tough to backseat either.

 

The other impressives do not dazzle me as much.

This is where I am. I won’t strongly argue against OJ even though I’m team Hasek on this. 
 

Those two were pay per view special in those 2-3 seasons. 
 

The rest were just really really good. They don’t give you chills. 

[ComradeKayAdams]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

If somebody can name a season with any authority where Tavares was actually historically great, I would be happy to include it.

 

I would go with his 1993 season: he led the league in scoring, was the MVP in the championship final, and was the most important player on arguably the best and most historically significant team in pro lacrosse history. That 1993 Bandits team was the one that went undefeated and featured so many future Hall of Famers and future head coaches/GM's that went on to shape the entire NLL. Many consider John Tavares (who is the uncle of the Maple Leafs hockey player with the same name) to be the greatest lacrosse player ever.

 

By the way, keep an eye on Buffalo's "Great" Dhane Smith this season! With 10 of 18 games completed, Dhane is currently on pace to break the NLL's points and assists records for the regular season....records that Dhane himself currently holds: 137 points in his first MVP season (2016) and 94 assists in his second MVP season (2022). When all is said and done, Dhane Smith is the Bandit who may very well become known as the greatest pro lacrosse player ever!

[DasNootz]

Buffalo Bandits perfect season in 1993… capped with a championship.  Tavares was championship MVP and led the league in scoring.

Edited February 24, 2023 by DasNootz

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

OJ 2000 yards.

He did it with a rookie quarterback that completed about 3 passes a game, and everyone in the stadium knew he was going to run it.

[TheBrownBear]

9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Forgot Pat LaFontaine's 53-95-148 line in the same season as Mogilny's 76 goals that still stands as the franchise record for most points and assists in a season...he was the one assisting on the majority of those goals for Mogilny...just an amazing player to watch. Mogilny is 2nd on that point total list with 127. Hawerchuk is 7th with 98 points and they all came during the same season...must have been one of the best lines in NHL history in terms of single season points(probably can't compare to the 80s Oilers lines, but still).

 

Hawerchuk centered the 2nd line.  Andreychuk was the left winger paired with Patty and Alex.  But yes, that was a great line and an electric season of offensive hockey (topped off by the "May Day!!!  May Day!!!" victory over the Bruins).

[US Egg]

50 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is where I am. I won’t strongly argue against OJ even though I’m team Hasek on this. 
 

Those two were pay per view special in those 2-3 seasons. 
 

The rest were just really really good. They don’t give you chills. 

The American sports nation was captivated by O.J.’s pursuit of the 2000 yard barrier being attained.

It was “Ruthesque”. Hasek’s was Herculean, not many outside of NHL were aware of his uniqueness.
 

 

[Chaos]

Damar Jackson. Buffalo Bills 2022. Defeated cardiac arrest. 

[US Egg]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Damar Jackson. Buffalo Bills 2022. Defeated cardiac arrest. 

Saved and survived, no doubt. Lots of hands helped him do that.

 

A miraculous blessing, I dare say, for Mr. Hamlin.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by I am the egg man

[Dopey]

30 minutes ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

OJ 2000 yards.

He did it with a rookie quarterback that completed about 3 passes a game, and everyone in the stadium knew he was going to run it.

In 14 games, no less. 

[butch rolle]

10 hours ago, Simon said:

 

There was a 3-4 year stretch in there that I am still convinced was the greatest sustained run of otherworldly excellence by any athlete in any sport in the world that I have ever seen in many decades of dedicated sports viewing. The only other person who I would even consider mentioning in the same breath regarding this would be Michael Jordan.

It wasn't just that Hasek was the best of the very best; it's that he was soooooo far beyond what any of his peers were doing that there were times that it became impossible to believe your own eyes. It went far beyond excellence and well into uncharted territory where not only was he doing things that nobody else could do, he was doing things that nobody else had ever considered even trying. It was like he was so good that being the best in the world was boring and he had to come up with other ways to keep himself entertained. "Routine 47-save shutouts are so cliche; I think I'll start redirecting pucks with my head". "Stopping multiple odd man rushes night after night with breakdance maneuvers is getting stale; I'm going to start clearing pucks by throwing them and then batting them out of the air with my stick". And it wasn't just for a week here and there; it was complete insanity and it went on regularly for years. 

I cannot think of any other instance in which the gap between the best player in the world and then the next 10 best players after him was as stunningly large. In such a relatively small market with a limited fanbase, I genuinely felt lucky to be one of the few people in the world that got to see something like that night after night. I'm confident that I will never again see anything like it in this lifetime.

 

 

When it comes to comparing seasons across sports and positions, I think that subconsciously, fans lean towards offense.  That's what makes Hasek's inclusion all of the more impressive.  His level of dominance during this era simply cannot be understated.  "The Dominator" winning the Hart in 97 was akin to Lawrence Taylor winning the NFL league MVP as a linebacker in 86'.  It had been almost 40 years since a goalie won the Hart.  Then Hasek won the damn thing again in 98!  Another somewhat forgotten accomplishment that punctuated his dominant tenure in Buffalo - the 1998 Olympics in Nagano.  He put the Czech Republic on his back, leading the massive underdogs to gold.   I have vivid memories of being away at college in Boston and calling for my dorm buddies to huddle around the TV to watch him in the shootout against the heavily favored Canadian team.   He absolutely stoned a murderers row of goal scorers.   This video is in Czech, but I think it makes it all the more fun to watch as you hear their national pride and excitement.   When this game was over it almost seemed like his shutout performance against Russia in the Gold Medal finals was a footnote.  Simply remarkable.

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

Josh Allen’s calendar year January 1st 2022 to November 1st 2022 was pretty amazing. 
32 total TDs 9 picks, 9-2 record, only losses were 13 seconds and Miami inferno game. Basically 2 plays away from being undefeated. Find me a better 11 month stretch in Buffalo sports history. 

[chongli]

6 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Josh Allen’s calendar year January 1st 2022 to November 1st 2022 was pretty amazing. 
32 total TDs 9 picks, 9-2 record, only losses were 13 seconds and Miami inferno game. Basically 2 plays away from being undefeated. Find me a better 11 month stretch in Buffalo sports history. 

 

10 months great. Then came November and December.

Edited February 24, 2023 by chongli

[hondo in seattle]

In the 1970's, football was about running backs.  The best athletes became RBs.  RBs were far more likely to win the Heisman or get picked #1 in the draft than QBs.  Offenses were built around great running backs.  Defenses - unlike now - were built to stop them.  

 

In that bygone golden era, one back stood out like no other, like a man among boys, like a god among men.  In the 1973, OJ had 75% more yards than the next best back.  Not even Jim Brown did that.  Certainly not Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, or the many other pretenders for the title of RB GOAT.

 

Incidentally, OJ rushing total in 1975 was 46% ahead of the best of his peers.  His dominance was insane.  Only Jim Brown ever did better, comparatively, than OJ's 2nd best year.  

 

I'm not a hockey fan but I get the love for Hasek.  But did he ever outperform his peers by 75%?  

 

OJ is a horrible, horrible human being, but he was a preternatural football player.  

[Mango]

14 hours ago, butch rolle said:

When it comes to comparing seasons across sports and positions, I think that subconsciously, fans lean towards offense.  That's what makes Hasek's inclusion all of the more impressive.  His level of dominance during this era simply cannot be understated.  "The Dominator" winning the Hart in 97 was akin to Lawrence Taylor winning the NFL league MVP as a linebacker in 86'.  It had been almost 40 years since a goalie won the Hart.  Then Hasek won the damn thing again in 98!  Another somewhat forgotten accomplishment that punctuated his dominant tenure in Buffalo - the 1998 Olympics in Nagano.  He put the Czech Republic on his back, leading the massive underdogs to gold.   I have vivid memories of being away at college in Boston and calling for my dorm buddies to huddle around the TV to watch him in the shootout against the heavily favored Canadian team.   He absolutely stoned a murderers row of goal scorers.   This video is in Czech, but I think it makes it all the more fun to watch as you hear their national pride and excitement.   When this game was over it almost seemed like his shutout performance against Russia in the Gold Medal finals was a footnote.  Simply remarkable.

 

 

 

I honestly think that voters got Hasek fatigue and that is why he didn't win the Hart a 3rd time. 

I wasn't sure about adding a second season for Hasek. The 98 Olympics are kind, sorta, maybe, but not really related to the 98-99 season. They really belong in 97-98. Hasek individually may have actually been better in 97-98. Then you add in the Olympics, Vezina, and the Hart trophy. It was stunning. Ultimately I erred on the side of the 4x OT game against NJ, and dragging that mediocre (on their best day) team 6 games against the two greatest goal scorers in league history (5 and 24). And the two best American goal scorers of all time.

Those 5-7 years of Haseks peak are the greatest stretch of goaltending in league history. If you put him on the 95-96 Redwings, 18-19 Lightening, or even this years Bruins team, they set an untouchable record for best NHL regular season of all time. Heck, you put prime Hasek on this roster, and they likely skyrocket to Stanley Cup favorites. They would have beat TB 6-1 last night.

 

It is telling that the Sabres have made it to the Stanley cup twice in 50+ years. The only player from the 98-99 roster in the rafters is 39. The 74-75 team has 4. 5 from that era overall. Tim Horton retired the year before they made the Stanley Cup. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mango

[dave mcbride]

OJ's 1975 season was significantly better than his 1973 season: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimpO.00.htm. Note the assigned AV numbers. More yards from scrimmage, more yards per touch, far more TDs, and a slightly lower fumble rate. 15.2 yards per reception for a running back is of-the-charts great.

[Billz4ever]

Quote

1973 OJ Simpson: 2003 yards 14 games. Permanently put him in the pantheon of all time great RB's.

 

That is a staggering feat to accomplish in 14 games.

 

Wish it was Thurman that did it rather than OJ though.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Marvin]

43 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

In the 1970's, football was about running backs.  The best athletes became RBs.  RBs were far more likely to win the Heisman or get picked #1 in the draft than QBs.  Offenses were built around great running backs.  Defenses - unlike now - were built to stop them.  

 

In that bygone golden era, one back stood out like no other, like a man among boys, like a god among men.  In the 1973, OJ had 75% more yards than the next best back.  Not even Jim Brown did that.  Certainly not Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, or the many other pretenders for the title of RB GOAT.

 

Incidentally, OJ rushing total in 1975 was 46% ahead of the best of his peers.  His dominance was insane.  Only Jim Brown ever did better, comparatively, than OJ's 2nd best year.  

 

I'm not a hockey fan but I get the love for Hasek.  But did he ever outperform his peers by 75%?  

 

OJ is a horrible, horrible human being, but he was a preternatural football player.  

A book called The Hockey Compendium by Jeff Z. Klein and Karl-Eric Reif showed that the minimum of Hasek's goaltending performances from 1993-2001 was better than the largest ever goaltending performance going back to WWI.  He was the RJ of goaltenders.  (Quoting Hockey Stars magazine in 1996, "Jeanneret is, hands down, the best TV play-by-play man in the NHL and he's so far ahead of the rest that there's no second best.")

 

Having said that, the youngsters have to go see the highlights of OJ's career to understand exactly how good he was and how mediocre the Bills were for most of his career.  5 down linemen, 3 LB, and the SS in the box?  No problem.

[Watkins101]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

In the 1970's, football was about running backs.  The best athletes became RBs.  RBs were far more likely to win the Heisman or get picked #1 in the draft than QBs.  Offenses were built around great running backs.  Defenses - unlike now - were built to stop them.  

 

In that bygone golden era, one back stood out like no other, like a man among boys, like a god among men.  In the 1973, OJ had 75% more yards than the next best back.  Not even Jim Brown did that.  Certainly not Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, or the many other pretenders for the title of RB GOAT.

 

Incidentally, OJ rushing total in 1975 was 46% ahead of the best of his peers.  His dominance was insane.  Only Jim Brown ever did better, comparatively, than OJ's 2nd best year.  

 

I'm not a hockey fan but I get the love for Hasek.  But did he ever outperform his peers by 75%?  

 

OJ is a horrible, horrible human being, but he was a preternatural football player.  

If this was an argument for greatest career, Hasek wins in a landslide. Despite a late start to his NHL career, Hasek won 6 best goalie awards, 2 MVPs, 2 player voted MVPs, and 2 cups. His career average save percentage still would have been 6th in 1998-1999 which is ridiculous for Goalies who tend to be inconsistent. He has the 5 highest single season save percentages in the 90s. He is considered one of the best goalies of all time, if not the best, depending on who you ask. (the Athletic recently called him the top goalie of all time), whereas OJ really isn’t considered top 5 ( a quick look at different running back rankings puts him at 7-12.) 

A single season does perhaps change things though. Hasek’s 1998-1999 season was ridiculous, getting the Vezina, and carrying his team on his back to the finals. That Sabres team without Hasek was average at best, and he made them a much greater team. The bills for OJ’s big year did have an excellent offensive line which gave him a lot of help to get those numbers. OJ took that team from bad to average, whereas Hasek took the team from Bad/Average to contender. That gives him a slight edge in my book. Hasek’s 1998-1999 season is 5th all time in goalie save percentage, in an era when scoring was up and saving was down. It’s a tough contest to call, but I think I’d go with Hasek.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Watkins101 said:

If this was an argument for greatest career, Hasek wins in a landslide. Despite a late start to his NHL career, Hasek won 6 best goalie awards, 2 MVPs, 2 player voted MVPs, and 2 cups. His career average save percentage still would have been 6th in 1998-1999 which is ridiculous for Goalies who tend to be inconsistent. He has the 5 highest single season save percentages in the 90s. He is considered one of the best goalies of all time, if not the best, depending on who you ask. (the Athletic recently called him the top goalie of all time), whereas OJ really isn’t considered top 5 ( a quick look at different running back rankings puts him at 7-12.) 

A single season does perhaps change things though. Hasek’s 1998-1999 season was ridiculous, getting the Vezina, and carrying his team on his back to the finals. That Sabres team without Hasek was average at best, and he made them a much greater team. The bills for OJ’s big year did have an excellent offensive line which gave him a lot of help to get those numbers. OJ took that team from bad to average, whereas Hasek took the team from Bad/Average to contender. That gives him a slight edge in my book. Hasek’s 1998-1999 season is 5th all time in goalie save percentage, in an era when scoring was up and saving was down. It’s a tough contest to call, but I think I’d go with Hasek.

 

For poops and laughs I was curious what the GAA and Point Differential of that 99 team would be if they just had average goal tending. 

Average Save Percentage league wide was .905 in 98-99. The team saw 2461 shots. Adjusted for average goal tending the Sabres GAA 2.85. Hasek was averaging 1.87. Nearly a goal a game less. An average goaltender would move the Sabres from 2nd over all to 22nd in a league of 27. Their goal differential was +32, it moves to -32 and down to 20th in the league. 

 

Rolosons S% .909. So pretty similar to the above. 

 

The only other similar swing I can think of in pro sports in my lifetime are the 2011 Colts without Manning. But even that isn't the same. That Colts team is probably average with anybody better than Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky behind center...and actually trying to win games...

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mango