Fire Frazier? McDermott? Nah. Bills fans have to switch their mentality re: defense

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I disagree.  Before the offense could catch it's breath they were down 14 - 0.  Last year the offense performed magnificently in the loss to KC.  The simple fact is that in their last three playoff exits the defense has been woeful in all three.

 

And one of the reasons we're giving the offense a little slack is that this unit has not been the recipient of the lions share of quality free agent signings and draft picks. The defense should be held to a higher standard for the simple reason that this is the unit the Bills have focused most of their resources on.

 

 

And the offense has been bad in 1 (AFCCG) and woeful in another (Cincy). 2022 was the one outlier where the offense was outstanding and did its job. But Houston 2019 was mainly an offensive failing too. 

 

I am not saying the defense hasn't come up short in these situations but if you score 10 points at home in a playoff game you can't expect to win and yet all week the major heat has been on defense. That offensive performance was an abomination.

[PrimeTime101]

15 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Since Sunday afternoon I've seen so many Bills fans complaining about Frazier, McDermott and the defense. Upset that they couldn't shut down one of the best offenses in the NFL in the divisional playoffs. 

 

The bottom line is this: Once Allen signed that massive contract, the Bills stopped being the type of team that can shut down powerful offenses and instead moved into the category of teams that have to outscore opponents.

 

The days of a dominant Bills defense are over. The NFL's system is built that way thanks to the salary cap. We have a franchise quarterback now that's paid that way. We're not going to be able to load the roster with defensive stars going forward. 

 

Josh Allen is one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL today. That means the offense has to be dominant. The defense just has to not be terrible. Giving up 27 points is not terrible. Scoring 10 points IS terrible. This is the mentality that Bills fans are not used to but have to get there: which is to focus on the offense instead of the defense.

 

It's not ideal to get down 0-14 to start a game. But it didn't phase me. I knew the defense would adjust and for the most part they did, only giving up 13 points the rest of the way. But the 0-14 start really didn't bother me much because we have Josh Allen - I fully expected the offense to start humming and not only get back into it but eventually take the lead. But they never did. The defense gave the offense opportunities to do so but the offense failed each time.

 

Frazier isn't a schematic genius but he's not going anywhere. The system isn't going anywhere. It's good enough to not be terrible.

 

Instead, put the focus and pressure on where it now belongs - the offense:

 

• Dorsey has to get better in Year 2. The schemes he comes into the 2023 season with and his playcalling on game days.
• Beane has to upgrade the OLine. Draft, free agency...whatever. The OLine on Sunday was a total embarrassment. That's on Beane to fix it.
• Outside of Diggs, the wide receiver unit is simply not good enough. Gabe Davis ain't it. Neither is McKenzie. I like Shakir. But Beane needs to address this unit this offseason.
• Improvement from Knox, Cook, Hines - a lot of this has to do with Dorsey involving them more. But all three have major talent that must be properly utilized.

 

If all of this happens, Allen can relax and be the best quarterback on the planet in 2023. He will stop feeling like he has to be Superman every possession and just play.

 

Then the offense can be dominant.

 

That's how this team is going to win the Super Bowl. Not by being the 2000 Ravens. But by being the 1999 Rams.

we have SO MANY threads on this topic. There is a Poll  that highly touches on this topic. How many new topics on the same exact things are we going to make?

 

That being said this is very well written and I disagree. We cant afford to take another chance on our OC and possibly waste another year of JA

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yeah BS, this defense will continue to get run over and give up big third downs as long as we play soft zone.

 

McDermott needs to remember when he worked with Jim Johnson, who was aggressive and had great defenses.

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Just no. Fix the defense. It’s a philosophy that’s broken. There are no rules saying if you have a good QB that your defense isn’t allowed to be good

 

philosophy is garbage. Ive tolerated it because i love what McDermott did to get this franchise turned around but ive never liked it and always staying in the 42 and rarely making adjustments is the height of foolishness.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

15 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Another game the Bills could have looked at was the Bengals-Pats game in Dec. The Bengals jumped out to a huge lead. It looked like it was going to be a blowout. Belichick made adjustments and the Bengals offense struggled the rest of the way. The Pats came all the way back and almost won the game. I believe they fumbled at the Bengals 5-yard line late in the 4th quarter which let CIN escape win a win.

 

we should make bill our DC 😅😅

 

 

[Ayjent]

Thing is this defense wouldnt be much worse if they hadn’t invested so much in it. It would still be ineffective and unable to impose its will when it counted.  It’s because of the scheme that we don’t see game changing plays frequently.  The defense became less capable of creating turnovers down the stretch unless they were gifts or awful plays by the opposing offense.  There weren’t turnovers due to pressure or aggressive attacking schemes. The D very much reminds me of Jauron’s. You can put a bunch of scabs or all pros in it and the difference isn’t going to be all that impactful.  It’s great for a less talented team to run and it’s god awful for a talented team to run. 
 

And with the injury excuses - please stop!  Every team has to deal with injuries that’s where coaching and knowing your bench talent’s strengths and weaknesses comes into play.  This coaching staff deserves the heat and on both sides. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Ayjent

[newcam2012]

18 hours ago, BrooklynBills said:

Is it too much to ask that our defense has the ability to scheme up some gameplans in the playoffs that are the deciding factor.  Everyone wants to bring up these games that the offense failed and thats fair but they are failing because the other team is scheming up stuff that is disrupting our offense. 

 

AFCC vs. the Chiefs - the difference was that our D got abused and Spags outsmarted Daboll/Allen.

AFCDiv vs. the Chiefs - offense showed up this game. Defense was embarrassing.

AFCDiv vs. Bengals - the OL was bad but Anarumo outsmarted our OC/Allen with the blitzes from depth because all our routes are slow developing.

 

Is it too much to ask our defensive minded HC and our DC to scheme up a defensive plan that is the difference in the game? Are we forgetting that the Colts in 2020 moved the ball up and down the field? Or that we were a couple drops from that Miami game being a possible embarrassment as well?

Great point. I think it is too much for the coaching staff to do so. They have little creative ability on defense. They go back to their standard defense for the most part. They have lacked the ability to have game plan that takes away their opponents strengths. This is one of the major reasons why serious change is needed. 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And the offense has been bad in 1 (AFCCG) and woeful in another (Cincy). 2022 was the one outlier where the offense was outstanding and did its job. But Houston 2019 was mainly an offensive failing too. 

 

I am not saying the defense hasn't come up short in these situations but if you score 10 points at home in a playoff game you can't expect to win and yet all week the major heat has been on defense. That offensive performance was an abomination.

The offense was not bad in the AFCCG against KC.  The Bills jumped out to a 9 - 0 lead and I believe the Chiefs then scored on almost every other possession. 

 

The ONLY way the Bills had a chance in that game, given how their D was unable to stop KC from scoring, was in a shoot out.  And has been noted repeatedly if the Bills need their offense to win their games in a shoot out because their D can't stop the opponent then why the hell do they pour the lions share of resources into the D while expecting the O to operate at a high level with the leftovers? 

 

The fact remains that if the D played up to their rankings in their final playoff games over the last 3 seasons the Bills would likely have at least one SB trophy on hand. 

 

 

 

 

[Brand J]

Our team is run by a defensive HC and yet - despite all the resources poured into it - the defense has never been the reason for why the Bills have beaten a top playoff contender. In fact, it’s the reason why they’ve lost against real playoff contenders. Every. Single. Time. Say what you want about the offense, but I don’t think that can be argued.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The offense was not bad in the AFCCG against KC.  The Bills jumped out to a 9 - 0 lead and I believe the Chiefs then scored on almost every other possession. 

 

The ONLY way the Bills had a chance in that game, given how their D was unable to stop KC from scoring, was in a shoot out.  And has been noted repeatedly if the Bills need their offense to win their games in a shoot out because their D can't stop the opponent then why the hell do they pour the lions share of resources into the D while expecting the O to operate at a high level with the leftovers? 

 

The fact remains that if the D played up to their rankings in their final playoff games over the last 3 seasons the Bills would likely have at least one SB trophy on hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think they need to adjust to the playoff mentality.  Teams hold more and play more physically in the playoffs - and refs let it all happen.  Not going to say philosophically what they need to do differently (zone vs man, blitz vs not etc), but running and stopping the run are huge in the playoffs, and we failed at both.  That to me screams "soft", and they need to be more physical - especially in the winter weather.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The offense was not bad in the AFCCG against KC.  The Bills jumped out to a 9 - 0 lead and I believe the Chiefs then scored on almost every other possession. 

 

The ONLY way the Bills had a chance in that game, given how their D was unable to stop KC from scoring, was in a shoot out.  And has been noted repeatedly if the Bills need their offense to win their games in a shoot out because their D can't stop the opponent then why the hell do they pour the lions share of resources into the D while expecting the O to operate at a high level with the leftovers? 

 

The fact remains that if the D played up to their rankings in their final playoff games over the last 3 seasons the Bills would likely have at least one SB trophy on hand. 

 

 

We went up 9-0 because special teams recovered us the ball inside their 5 yard line on a muffed punt. The offense didn't drive down the field for that score.

[BillsVet]

45 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Our team is run by a defensive HC and yet - despite all the resources poured into it - the defense has never been the reason for why the Bills have beaten a top playoff contender. In fact, it’s the reason why they’ve lost against real playoff contenders. Every. Single. Time. Say what you want about the offense, but I don’t think that can be argued.

 

It's funny that when the 2022 league year commenced, Buffalo out of the gate signed Saffold, OJ Howard, re-signed McKenzie, and then Duke Johnson in the first week of free agency.     

 

It's now 4 of McD's 6 off-seasons the defense got significant (either talent or pay-wise) upgrades, while the offense got little.  Even 2021, they, notably speaking, re-signed Daryl Williams, re-signed McKenzie, then added Matt Breida in the opening 2 weeks of UFA.   

 

Not surprising they can't keep pace offensively with Cincinnati and Kansas City...apparently off-season review does not require continuously improving the offense.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by BillsVet

[Jauronimo]

A lot of national guys are starting to say that McD's defensive coaching is a lot more wabi sabi than it is the kaizen hes been preaching.

[The Red King]

Switch my mindset?  You mean to something like "Getting nickeled and dimed down the field is wonderful!"?

[BuffaloRebound]

I think the fact that we’re light in the ass at a lot of positions on D hurts come playoffs. Johnson gotta be one of the smaller Nickles.  Our safeties ain’t big.  Milano is smallish.  Oliver is short and small.  Epenesa is smaller every year.  

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

I think the fact that we’re light in the ass at a lot of positions on D hurts come playoffs. Johnson gotta be one of the smaller Nickles.  Our safeties ain’t big.  Milano is smallish.  Oliver is short and small.  Epenesa is smaller every year.  

Gotta be small and move quick to play our finesse scheme 

[Amorgus]

11 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Gotta be small and move quick to play our finesse scheme 

Finesse will never regularly trump the physics of a 300+ pound guy running through you like toilet paper. 

[Aussie Joe]

10 minutes ago, Amorgus said:

Finesse will never regularly trump the physics of a 300+ pound guy running through you like toilet paper. 

No… but finesse is what they seem to want 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

18 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

That was an insanely bizarre stat. Somewhere around 6 or 8 mins left in the first quarter they had already racked up over 150 yards. Had something like 235 total against the Ravens. That’s not entirely personnel, folks. That’s scheme, or lackthereof. That’s a DC who didn’t devise a game plan specific to the Bengals. 

I agree with u the Bengals have been slowed down by plenty teams down the stretch they are not a juggernaut. We had the worst gameplan I probably ever saw considering they were out 3 lineman u know they will turn to quick passing game and McD & Frazier made sure they rolled out the red carpet for them. 

[Taro Nimbus]

people seem to forget Dorsey inherited a top 5 offence and in his first year ever in a OC role, had the Bills in the top 3 in offence!   How do you not get better than that in your first year?  He will only get better.  

[Nextmanup]

12 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That being said this is very well written and I disagree. We cant afford to take another chance on our OC and possibly waste another year of JA

Funny.  Retaining Dorsey likely WILL waste another year of Josh Allen's career, and then they'll realize something needs to be done and he'll go then.

Then the new guy will need to get cozy and that's another year gone too.

 

Now it's 2026 and still no SB appearance.

 

 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We went up 9-0 because special teams recovered us the ball inside their 5 yard line on a muffed punt. The offense didn't drive down the field for that score.

Wouldn't even have been in that AFCCG if not for Allen going off vs a Colts team w Phillip Rivers that was marching up and down on the defense

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Wouldn't even have been in that AFCCG if not for Allen going off vs a Colts team w Phillip Rivers that was marching up and down on the defense

True, but you could argue that as well for the defense annihilating the Ravens that year. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We went up 9-0 because special teams recovered us the ball inside their 5 yard line on a muffed punt. The offense didn't drive down the field for that score.

But the O did have a nice drive to go up 3 - 0 then after the fumbled snap scored a TD to go up 9 - 0.  The Chiefs then went down the field fr a TD to cut the elad to 9 - 7 which started their shredding of the Bills D. 

 

BTW I believe on the next drive the Bills were driving and had the ball at midfield when Singleterry dropped a short blitz beating pass that would have been a huge gain and maybe even a TD.

[CincyBillsFan]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

True, but you could argue that as well for the defense annihilating the Ravens that year. 

Yea, it's to bad that the Ravens aren't the team that was blocking the Bills from the SB the last two years.  All credit to Frazier for figuring out how to deal with Jackson and the Ravens unconventional offense.  Meanwhile the road to being AFC champions is blocked by 2 teams featuring elite QB's and potent offenses in Cincy & KC.  And Frazier's defense has been unable to deal with either of these teams through 3 playoff games.  And don't look now but Herbert & Lawrence may be doubling the # of teams blocking the Bills path to the SB with offenses that Fraziers D will not be able to stop.

 

 

[Georgia Bill]

Can we talk about the elephant in the room?  

Per source "Only one QB since 1994 has won a Super Bowl with a cap hit percentage higher than 13%, and that was 49ers legend Steve Young, whose deal predated the salary cap itself."  Ideal salary range for Super Bowl winning QB's

Josh Allen's hit next year will be $39.7 million, 17.4% of the cap.  Brady used to take pay at a lower compensation than most other star quarterbacks so that the team would have more to spend on better players around him.  Maybe Josh Allen should think about that. 

 

IF the money is spent wisely, donating $20 mill per year to the cause would improve his chances of getting a Super Bowl ring.  I know that's a big "if" but we can talk about spending on the O-line or the D all we want but the new problem is going to be finding money to spend given the massive amount of cap money Allen will be getting.  

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But the O did have a nice drive to go up 3 - 0 then after the fumbled snap scored a TD to go up 9 - 0.  The Chiefs then went down the field fr a TD to cut the elad to 9 - 7 which started their shredding of the Bills D. 

 

BTW I believe on the next drive the Bills were driving and had the ball at midfield when Singleterry dropped a short blitz beating pass that would have been a huge gain and maybe even a TD.

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

and more importantly, NEITHER UNIT WAS HAMSTRUNG BY A FRANCHISE QB CONTRACT.

[Bferra13]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:19 PM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The defense has to have playmakers. Not be a juggernaut. The Bills were different with Von Miller. He won that KC game in the end. Such a shame we lost him. 

Man I don't know. The whole dline kind of went MIA there after that KC game and then Von got hurt. It just wasn't the same team as after the bye. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Bferra13

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It would. But he dropped it. So it wasn't. That's the point. The O does not have a great record in our season ending games either. Last year was the exception not the rule.

The Offense was spectacular in last seasons divisional playoff loss to KC.  The defense has failed miserably in all 3 playoff exits.  And given the FACT that the majority of the high draft picks and free agent signings goes to the defense means that the defense should be consistently leading the Bills to victory.  The reality is that the offense has had the better of the defense in the playoffs over the last 3 seasons.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

and more importantly, NEITHER UNIT WAS HAMSTRUNG BY A FRANCHISE QB CONTRACT.

Paying a franchise QB a big contract doesn't seem to have hurt the Chiefs quest for the Super Bowl has it?  In fact if the Chiefs don't win the AFC championship on Sunday it will have a lot to do with their high paid franchise QB not being healthy and NOTHING to do with the size of his contract.

 

Bean & McD have CHOSEN to not surround Allen with high quality play makers and offensive line.  They have CHOSEN to follow the Carolina model and milk their QB for everything he's got while pushing their resources towards creating a dominating defense.  And it hasn't worked.  So they're now faced with a dilemma.  Do they double down on their failures or do they finally redirect the priorities to the offense?

 

But if you believe Allen's contract is hamstringing the Bills what do you suggest they do about it?  You know the contract that by this summer will not even be in the top 10 among QB's.  Maybe they can trade Allen and dump his contract. I'm sure some team will give them three #1 picks & three #2 picks for his services. Yea that's the ticket.  I mean the goal of the Bills franchise should be to make Bean & McD's life easier now that they've screwed up Allen's cheap rookie contract years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Paying a franchise QB a big contract doesn't seem to have hurt the Chiefs quest for the Super Bowl has it?  In fact if the Chiefs don't win the AFC championship on Sunday it will have a lot to do with their high paid franchise QB not being healthy and NOTHING to do with the size of his contract.

 

Bean & McD have CHOSEN to not surround Allen with high quality play makers and offensive line.  They have CHOSEN to follow the Carolina model and milk their QB for everything he's got while pushing their resources towards creating a dominating defense.  And it hasn't worked.  So they're now faced with a dilemma.  Do they double down on their failures or do they finally redirect the priorities to the offense?

 

But if you believe Allen's contract is hamstringing the Bills what do you suggest they do about it?  You know the contract that by this summer will not even be in the top 10 among QB's.  Maybe they can trade Allen and dump his contract. I'm sure some team will give them three #1 picks & three #2 picks for his services. Yea that's the ticket.  I mean the goal of the Bills franchise should be to make Bean & McD's life easier now that they've screwed up Allen's cheap rookie contract years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't.  I reject the OP entirely saying "this is life with a franchise QB under a big contract," BECAUSE for the last 3 seasons, we HAVE NOT had a big franchise QB contract. And the team has not been good enough. Next year, the big contract DOES hit.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don't.  I reject the OP entirely saying "this is life with a franchise QB under a big contract," BECAUSE for the last 3 seasons, we HAVE NOT had a big franchise QB contract. And the team has not been good enough. Next year, the big contract DOES hit.

The big contract is a lot less important then the poor strategic choices being made by Bean & McD.  They chose to prioritize the D over the O while they were on Allen's rookie contract.  So sorry if I have no sympathy for the Allen contract argument.  The Chiefs have figured out how to remain elite in spite of Mahomes big contract.  Its on the Bills management to do likewise.  The alternative is to try to be elite without Allen behind center.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[papazoid]

frazier has got to go

 

#1 - when facing mutiple weapons....he retreats, backs up deep

 

#2 - he is predictable.....needs to mix it with blitzes and overloads from one side

[Joe Ferguson]

McClappy said, " We will learn from this" WHAT!?! He hasn't learn *****. He's going to continue to waste Josh Allen's prime years. That is downright criminal!

Edited January 28, 2023 by Joe Ferguson

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The big contract is a lot less important then the poor strategic choices being made by Bean & McD.  They chose to prioritize the D over the O while they were on Allen's rookie contract.  So sorry if I have no sympathy for the Allen contract argument.  The Chiefs have figured out how to remain elite in spite of Mahomes big contract.  Its on the Bills management to do likewise.  The alternative is to try to be elite without Allen behind center.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Are you reading what I’m saying lmao

[Bermuda Triangle]

I can't disagree with OP more.  The Cinci offense was impotent against BAL in the WC round, and in Week 18.  Last week was the best they looked since their first 1.5 drives in Week 17...against the Bills.  Yeah, the offense was crap today, but the defense is hot trash, as they generally are in big spots. 

 

Let's face it - offenses know what they're facing against the Bills.  All this talk about continuity, players knowing the defense, etc. ....how many huge plays did the defense allow this year?  Hell, this defense allowed Zach Friggin' Wilson to complete 72% of his passes earlier this season.

 

In many ways, :13 was a red herring, as far as Frazier was concerned.  The defense looked utterly hopeless and toothless in the drives preceding and succeeding the ":13" sequence, much the way they looked in the playoffs against KC in '21 and the Texans in the 2nd half/OT in '20.  Yet, the focus and spotlight remains on the squib kick decision.  The defense cost the Bills a playoff win and 2 3rd round picks that day - after that, there was NO CHANCE of anyone hiring Frazier as a HC.

 

Frazier can't be gone soon enough.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The Offense was spectacular in last seasons divisional playoff loss to KC.  The defense has failed miserably in all 3 playoff exits.  And given the FACT that the majority of the high draft picks and free agent signings goes to the defense means that the defense should be consistently leading the Bills to victory.  The reality is that the offense has had the better of the defense in the playoffs over the last 3 seasons.

 

 

Yes, I agree. But only because the offense was spectacular in the 2021 playoffs. Otherwise it has been bad too. And I don't disagree with you on asset allocation either. My point was not that the defense doesn't deserve scrutiny. It was that the offense does too and I think that is being missed a bit.

[BillsFan692]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:45 PM, GunnerBill said:

While I do see some of the points in the OP I don't totally buy them and agree with those saying the Bengals could have scored more had they needed to. 

 

But the offense is getting off very lightly as people obsess over the defense. If I'd said to you before the game "the Bills will score 10 points can they beat the Bengals?" Everyone to a man, woman and child would have said no. 

 

If I'd said the "the Bengals will score 35 (a full TD and 2XP more than they did) can the Bills still win?" it would have been mixed but some would have said yes. 

 

The defense needs some work, no doubt. It didn't have a good plan or good enough execution. But the Bills couldn't win with their offense sucking that bad. And while I agree with those who say the offense needs and deserves more assets allocating to it regardless of that 10 points and a pathetic playoff effort deserves the heat. 

 

Last year the D and coaching let the offense down. This year the offense was just as, I'd argue more, complicit in our playoff exit. 

The defense gave up two huge scoring drives to start the game and the weather worsened as the game went on.

 

Bengals chewed up the clock all game and had our O sitting on the sidelines defense couldn't ever get a stop.

 

Equal blame to go around

[Ayjent]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, I agree. But only because the offense was spectacular in the 2021 playoffs. Otherwise it has been bad too. And I don't disagree with you on asset allocation either. My point was not that the defense doesn't deserve scrutiny. It was that the offense does too and I think that is being missed a bit.

Yes.  The game plans for both sides have been lacking and they are getting both outcoached and outplayed. I also think that the DL players are not developing - which is likely a product that is some part bad picks, bad player development and scheme.   On offense it’s a lack of investment and scheme - there has been little push to impress the importance of timing and plays that make sure the most dangerous players get the ball to make plays.  There is no thing that Bills’ opponents stay awake at night fearful of other than what they could do with Allen improvising.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

The defense gave up two huge scoring drives to start the game and the weather worsened as the game went on.

 

Bengals chewed up the clock all game and had our O sitting on the sidelines defense couldn't ever get a stop.

 

Equal blame to go around

 

Exactly my point.