BillsFan130 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: I've said this many times over the past few years The offense and defense is not aligned The Team likes to or at least says they want to be aggressive on offense but then plays a passive defense. It doesn't match. The ideas/goals/thoughts should be aligned A guy that should get a call is vic Fangio, I know he plays a different defense than what McDermott has coached but that shouldn't matter Great post. Even someone like Spags I would love. Chiefs give up a lot of big plays, but if the other team gets a big play, they have Patrick Mahomes to respond.. Bills should have the same mindset with Josh 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 they need to change philosophy to be more willing to press man and stop always playing soft zone on back end That stacking the line and dropping off has been figured out Time for new wrinkles and maybe hit on some play makers All those D lineman draft picks and none of them are particularly good On the concerning end the best of the defense is aging out Hyde/Poyer will be a year older if both are even here Tre is still not 100% and might never ne Rest are jags with exception of Milano 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Why does everyone have to get fired when you lose in the playoffs? If you keep losing with the same guys making the calls, what are you supposed to do? Dorsey is just in over his head right now and wasn't ready to make the jump to OC yet. His play calling quite often tells me he doesn't understand situational football and what needs to be called on certain downs and distances. He's always talking about balance, but who gives a crap about balance if you have something that's working? You keep doing the thing that's working until the other team can stop it. He's also too quick to abandon the run, which makes his repeated calls about the need to be balanced all the more puzzling. I've had my problems with Frazier long before this game, but if this game doesn't demonstrate the problems with his defensive philosophy and preparation, I don't know what does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons99 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Ive been over Fraizer for 3 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Dan said: They have to try something... then current D has been exposed in every playoff game, save the NE game. we need a new defensive identity. Which means new DC. And get a fickin offensive line for Allen And Baltimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: Whatever the truth may be, there is too much on Allen right now. If he doesn’t show up we literally get blown out. No other playmakers on O, can’t run the ball, defense sucks… We need other playmakers on this team not named Josh Allen. It's almost criminal having to watch Josh out there often getting immediate pressure and running for his life with a 4 or even 3-man rush against our starting O-line and our D not even sniffing Burrow with three of their starters out. Edited January 23, 2023 by Billz4ever 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 51 minutes ago, Big Turk said: So KC has a great defense? Or one that just plays situationally well? Situationally well. Spags is a great blitzer. He's the guy who stopped the undefeated Pats in the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Frazier’s scheme and play calling are playoff caliber not championship caliber. I’ve been a fan and have defended him but after KC last year, making Skyler look like an all pro last week, and the weak zone nonsense this game was, I’m ready to move on. Dorsey gets another year to grow into his OC shoes imo. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: they need to change philosophy to be more willing to press man and stop always playing soft zone on back end That stacking the line and dropping off has been figured out Time for new wrinkles and maybe hit on some play makers All those D lineman draft picks and none of them are particularly good On the concerning end the best of the defense is aging out Hyde/Poyer will be a year older if both are even here Tre is still not 100% and might never ne Rest are jags with exception of Milano I seriously almost turned the TV off on the 3rd and 4 where they sent the big blitz and the DBs were all at least 10 yards off the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Think about it. What we saw out there today was basically all of our previous playoff defenses minus Jerry Hughes and Micah Hyde. Should we have expected the defense to show up better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 40 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: I've said this many times over the past few years The offense and defense is not aligned The Team likes to or at least says they want to be aggressive on offense but then plays a passive defense. It doesn't match. The ideas/goals/thoughts should be aligned A guy that should get a call is vic Fangio, I know he plays a different defense than what McDermott has coached but that shouldn't matter We have become the Colts from the Manning era and even they had Freeney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Ballin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) It really all comes down to McDermott. He's the head coach and gets final say on every play call. Edited January 23, 2023 by Buffalo Ballin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said: It really all comes down to McDermott. He's the head coach and gets final say on every play call. You really think the head coach is approving/unapproving playcalls in games? Not sure it works that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, foreboding said: Our guys didn't cover, our lines didn't get a push. Seems to me we need some new players. We keep getting new players and have same issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 33 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: You’re absolutely right Alpha. But here’s the problem… I think it’s more Mcd and not Frazier. They can fire Frazier but then MCD will just want to hire a guy who runs his cover 2/cover 3 shell. If the defence changes, I think it has to start with MCD looking at himself in the mirror I fear you're right... however there was a stretch a few seasons back when McD was pissed at Frazier and took the reigns of the D back for a game or so and they were MUCH more aggressive in their approach. Hopefully he realizes that their offense... more accurately Allen... allows them to take more defensive risks (assuming they upgrade the WR2 and OL talent) and they adjust accordingly. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Ballin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Just in Atlanta said: You really think the head coach is approving/unapproving playcalls in games? Not sure it works that way. He's the head coach. We had tons of questions about McDermott even before this defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Straight up embarrassing how limp the defense was I remember after the 13 secs debacle last year; realizing nobody was gonna offer Frasier a HC gig after that freakin disaster felt like another disaster in itself. Bills were outcoached on both sides and at the top by a country mile. The Bills coaches were like amateurs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 The problem isn't Sean McDermott/Leslie Frazier's defensive scheme. The problem is their unwillingness (or possibly their inability) to make major changes when facing elite Quarterbacks and Offensive Coordinators. There are two basic ways to win in the NFL: 1. Outplay your opponent 2. Outsmart your opponent This coaching staff relies 100% on the first method. To them it's always about execution, and playing better than the opponent on gameday. Which is great when you can stay mostly healthy, and are significantly more talented than the opposition. Or when you are only playing 2-3 truly elite quarterbacks during the course of a 17 week season. But the postseason is different. It's NOT JUST ABOUT consistent execution. Once you hit the divisional round, the talent levels between teams are way too similar. The quality of coaching is way higher. They quality of quarterback play is way higher. You can't just go out, and hope YOUR BEST is better than THEIR BEST. You have to relentlessly study film and find weak points to exploit. You have to strategically develop creative game plans and wrinkles (especially on defense) that give you an advantage. So many "good" coaches in the NFL have never figured this out. It's why they win lots of games in the regular season, and then fall apart when the playoffs hit. Unfortunately, I think our staff is among that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Probably, doesn’t make me wrong though. Of course not. Frazier certainly needs to go. The fact is that we just got dog walked at home by an inferior team that was even depleted by injuries. They ran over us and completed passes at will. This is unacceptable by any stretch. Tbh I am surprised that you excluded McDermott from criticism. He needs too needs to be held accountable for this defense, as well as for his Levy/Jauron method of team building. We need a team that can and will overpower our opponents, especially in the elements. McDermott, just like his subpar predecessors emphasizes defensive backs. How is that working out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Why does everyone have to get fired when you lose in the playoffs? I mean...you just saw how coaching ended our season. If the Bills and Bengals swapped coaching staffs wed be facing the Chiefs this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Ramza86 said: I mean...you just saw how coaching ended our season. If the Bills and Bengals swapped coaching staffs wed be facing the Chiefs this weekend. Tough to argue with the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: What sense does that make? You keep losing when it matters because of the defense, so try and make the offense better? How about fix the massive issue with the team….Getting stops? How many good players do you need? The answer isn't the players, it is the timid schemes giving up easy throws to wide open receivers without any Bills within 5 yards of them all too often. I am willing to bet other DC's would have a much better plan in those games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent Hulka Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: You’re just wasting your energy. Why is it a waste of energy? It needs to be said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Big Turk said: If I was Beane I would sink the majority of resources into the offense. We've seen the defense get smoked in the playoffs all 3 years in the losses with all the picks and All-Pro players. If they can't stop anyone when it counts then they damn sure better make sure they can protect Allen, have WRs that get open other than Diggs and let the offense go toe to toe... we were the same dang thing on d in 2018, with much less invested in the D. 2nd overall in yards, got trucked by physical teams who can run the ball up the middle (which imo the biggest reason we lost today. take that away and maybe we hit the qb on 3rd and long w the back OL and get a turnover and the O catches fire). our stupid scheme/never adjusting vs good teams has murdered us 4 times in the playoffs. we can have a kinda sorta d performance at home in the playoffs w less investment on the D, but an extra actual NFL starting WR (we brought back the ghost of Brown and the corpse of Bease this season for crying out loud) and two linemen who can smash and run, and all of a sudden we might be able to run directly up the gut, execute an actual screen play, and not watch davis drop perfect pass after perfect pass when diggs gets erased by the D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Many on here simply won't admit the defense has been a fraud all along. They have built up great stats playing atrocious QBs. When they face any team that has a decent oline they get pushed around. The defense has had epic collapses dating back to the first year McD was here giving up 200 yards rushing to the Saints. There have been many other games. The reality is the defense is soft. They play undersized DEs and DTs with the thought they will generate a pass rush with four and the scheme fits will stop the run. But it just isn't working. The defense relies on the opponent making a mistake or getting a penalty. That works against the bad teams and the bad QBs. It won't and hasn't worked against the good QBs. The general scheme is really no different than others play. We just don't have the DL to pull it off. Beane needs to be a man and admit his mistakes. He needs to cut Epenesa and Basham and sign some decent vets to pair with Miller and Rousseau. The draft capital must go to the offense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Word up. Thanks for being a class act Leslie. Exit stage right. Dorsey….. you can join him. 3 minutes ago, Big Turk said: How many good players do you need? The answer isn't the players, it is the timid schemes giving up easy throws to wide open receivers without any Bills within 5 yards of them all too often. I am willing to bet other DC's would have a much better plan in those games. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, colin said: we were the same dang thing on d in 2018, with much less invested in the D. 2nd overall in yards, got trucked by physical teams who can run the ball up the middle (which imo the biggest reason we lost today. take that away and maybe we hit the qb on 3rd and long w the back OL and get a turnover and the O catches fire). our stupid scheme/never adjusting vs good teams has murdered us 4 times in the playoffs. we can have a kinda sorta d performance at home in the playoffs w less investment on the D, but an extra actual NFL starting WR (we brought back the ghost of Brown and the corpse of Bease this season for crying out loud) and two linemen who can smash and run, and all of a sudden we might be able to run directly up the gut, execute an actual screen play, and not watch davis drop perfect pass after perfect pass when diggs gets erased by the D. We saw the impact DaQuan had all year. Missing him hurt badly, but we weren't winning that game even with him. They just had nothing on either side of the ball yesterday. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 How many times were linebackers covering Chase and the rest of them? WTF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Many on here simply won't admit the defense has been a fraud all along. They have built up great stats playing atrocious QBs. When they face any team that has a decent oline they get pushed around. The defense has had epic collapses dating back to the first year McD was here giving up 200 yards rushing to the Saints. There have been many other games. The reality is the defense is soft. They play undersized DEs and DTs with the thought they will generate a pass rush with four and the scheme fits will stop the run. But it just isn't working. The defense relies on the opponent making a mistake or getting a penalty. That works against the bad teams and the bad QBs. It won't and hasn't worked against the good QBs. The general scheme is really no different than others play. We just don't have the DL to pull it off. Beane needs to be a man and admit his mistakes. He needs to cut Epenesa and Basham and sign some decent vets to pair with Miller and Rousseau. The draft capital must go to the offense. That's not necessarily true...they led the NFL in stuffs this year by a wide margin...that didn't have anything to do with making mistakes, that is simply playing on the other side of the LOS. The issue is in big games against good offenses they play timid. Edited January 23, 2023 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Big Turk said: We saw the impact DaQuan had all year. Missing him hurt badly, but we weren't winning that game even with him. They just had nothing on either side of the ball yesterday. the upside of that is jones and phillips and lawson were cheaper street free agents, and they outplayed our picks and our prior expensive guys. we just have to get smart (less stupid really) with where we allocate our money on the lower level guys on the team. schematic issues on D are obv a more immediate issue, but that can also be fixed IMO. our O just totally lacks talent. cinci's back up OL is better than our starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Big Turk said: How many good players do you need? The answer isn't the players, it is the timid schemes giving up easy throws to wide open receivers without any Bills within 5 yards of them all too often. I am willing to bet other DC's would have a much better plan in those games. Nobody here wants Fraizer fired more then I do. That’s my number 1 ask here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Why does everyone have to get fired when you lose in the playoffs? Because it’s a results driven business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Nobody here wants Fraizer fired more then I do. That’s my number 1 ask here I disagree with that. I wanted him gone more than you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Going into this game you knew the offense needed to score 30 plus points to have a chance at winning. You knew the Bengals were going to get theirs. The Bills scored 10 points. With that being said, yea I am done with Fraziers defense. Time for a change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Bermuda Triangle said: I disagree with that. I wanted him gone more than you do. I have hated this guy for 3 years lol. Idc either way let’s just fire him. But knowing McDermott, he’ll just go down with the ship here. No way they get rid of Fraizer. We’re stuck with the perms inevitable playoff embarrassment looming 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 hours ago, Lagoon Blues said: Is it really Leslies D? How much of it is Seans and Leslie is running it? Not sarcasm truly asking... I guess what I'm getting at is would anything change with a new d coordinator? Good question. If McDermott is a good coach he will see the issues and accept change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) If people want to talk about bad defensive performances in the playoffs, how can we neglect mentioning the Colts game? The Colts should have beaten Buffalo. They gained 472 yards and didn’t turn the ball over. It was crazy that the Bills won that game given how easily the Colts marched up and down the field. Accurate, experienced qbs with elite qualities shred zones, and that’s what Mahomes, Rivers, and Burrow have all done. The other thing I’ll bring up is Allen vs. blitzes. He was bad against the blitz this season, and someone as good and experienced as he is should be a LOT better against the blitz. Elite qbs generally shred blitzes. His processing was not great this season. Don’t know what’s up with that, but he has to be given some easier answers vs blitzes and he has to choose those answers immediately. I thought he had a sneakily terrible game yesterday - one of his worst ever. Bad decision after bad decision that resulted him holding the ball too long, opting for futile scrambles, and making low percentage throws. Edited January 23, 2023 by dave mcbride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor26 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 There is just no creativity to his defense. It is so vanilla and non-aggressive. Players (especially LBs and DBs) just aren't put in a position to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauleeeWalnuts Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I think the odds on favorite response will be “We will learn from this, move on” instead of anyone losing their job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 36 minutes ago, Big Turk said: How many good players do you need? The answer isn't the players, it is the timid schemes giving up easy throws to wide open receivers without any Bills within 5 yards of them all too often. I am willing to bet other DC's would have a much better plan in those games. Having Von Miller wouldn't have mattered one bit yesterday. Absolutely insane to see Burrow get rid of the ball so quick and every. time. have someone wide open. I just laughed maniacally when we blitzed Burrow deep on our own side on 3rd and 5, blitzer came flying through, and all Burrow had to do was simply toss it five yards to Chase with White playing 10 yards off coverage. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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