Will DeAndre Hopkins be available this offseason?

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

No but you're implying that he's a problem because of it when you point out that I didn't find diggs doing it and then doubled down about him being on his second team and doing it.

 

If you don't like him because of it, that's your problem.

 

Until Allen, beane, McD or anyone on the team has an issue with it, then I'll be concerned with him acting out.

 

He wasn't an issue all season and then, like I said, the WHOLE team, played probably their worst game in the playoffs and you don't expect players to be getting upset?

 

the guys you displayed didn't display that on 2 different teams.

 

Is Diggs the only true, passionate, competitive spirit on this team?--the only one who was very upset over that loss?   Because I didn't see a line behind Diggs to get at Josh Allen.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

I have agreed on mlb and Von. You discount Trey back at 💯.. did you watch our 4th S last year ? TE was great against the pass not so much against the run. The game changer be placed on the 3 players are your words not mine. Elam likely shows improvement in year 2. That’s a very common thing in the NFL particularly at CB. So we are worse at MLB and Von is a ? to some degree. 
Offense has improved. In a league where the SB was 38-35. I’ll take improvements on O vs some drop off on D. The game changer moniker was given to Kincaid and I’ve described multiple times what he brings. You refuse to listen so that’s on you. The IOL has upgraded with both skill and depth so if Morse or a guard goes down we are solid. RT has to get better and a healthy SB pushed by Doyle is possible for improvement. All with a top 5 QB who now will have both more time and options. And alignments and personnel that should improve the run game. Comical that you refuse to agree with these facts. We shall see what s massive loss is with TE or not? I’m glad we chose MM over him. 
Have other teams improved ? Yes that’s what happens when they are bad. Jets and Phins are on the way up-Pats not so sure. Your point was the roster is worse and I disagree. We are overall improved based on the O in the hands of Josh Allen. 

 

 

The SB was 38-35.

 

But the AFC championship was 23-20.

 

Fans generally will always choose offense. The problem is that the other guy's offense is against your defense.

 

The offense has gotten better, but they were already one of the best. 2nd in yards and 2nd in scoring. There isn't all that much room for improvement.

 

The defense (before injuries) was damn good, but as the dings mounted they got significantly worse. And there's a lot of room for them to get even less good. And this year there's an area we're really weak at and will (likely) have to actively cover up. That increases the likelihood of  problems elsewhere.

 

Should be an interesting season.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not saying he's against it at all.  I'm saying he won't react well to a large dent in his targets.

 

 

That's certainly one guess. 

 

But when you look at his outbursts, none came when we were winning, even when he had few targets. 

 

But IMO this has very very little chance of actually happening. Cards ownership won't eat the money. And the Bills won't make the trade unless they do.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Alphadawg7]

27 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This is where I’m leaning, but then I don’t believe there’s any chance Hopkins is a Cardinal by the time mandatory camp starts … so where is he going?   
 

If I believe he’s getting traded, I think we’re in it as much as anyone else. 
 

That being said, Beane talks about Shorter as him making the roster is a given and then we gave a UDFA WR who’s apparently a ST monster a 3 year deal so…. We’re suddenly looking at keeping 7 WR’s potentially, without a Hopkins trade. 

I wouldn’t rule out including a WR in the trade either though.  If we can land Hopkins, no one outside Diggs is safe given the amount of upgrade Hopkins is.  Gabe is entering the final year of his deal, and I think it’s fair to say they don’t value him enough to pay him what the market will dictate given how much interest they have had in WRs that would be blatant or potential upgrades to him like Hopkins, OBJ, Jeudy, and a first round WR. 

Now, at this point I am skeptical we land Hopkins.  I think Hopkins was the fall back plan if they didn’t get a big time weapon prospect in the draft.  Now that they added Kincaid, I’m not so sure they are going to be as inclined to do what it takes to get him.  There are only so many balls to go around, and this team is pretty deep with weapons after the upgrades that have been made this offseason.  
 

I would love to get Hopkins still, but I’ve gone from thinking it was quite possible or close to happening, to more it’s still possible, just not as likely.  
 

NOTE:  Also, Beane is still going to spend more cal space on vet DL guys too at least, which further restricts our spending.  Doesn’t make it impossible, but would take more maneuvering to do it

Edited April 30, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The SB was 38-35.

 

But the AFC championship was 23-20.

 

Fans generally will always choose offense. The problem is that the other guy's offense is against your defense.

 

The offense has gotten better, but they were already one of the best. 2nd in yards and 2nd in scoring. There isn't all that much room for improvement.

 

The defense (before injuries) was damn good, but as the dings mounted they got significantly worse. And there's a lot of room for them to get even less good. And this year there's an area we're really weak at and will (likely) have to actively cover up. That increases the likelihood of  problems elsewhere.

 

Should be an interesting season.

 

 

 

 

 

That's certainly one guess. 

 

But when you look at his outbursts, none came when we were winning, even when he had few targets. 

 

But IMO this has very very little chance of actually happening. Cards ownership won't eat the money. And the Bills won't make the trade unless they do.

 

But if they won’t eat any money, and we’re assuming that’s a prerequisite for Buffalo, then it’s also a prerequisite for KC.. who currently have a little bit less cap than we do.  
 

Not sure what Baltimores cap situation is and/or levers they could pull. 
 

Hopkins will not play nice and go somewhere he doesn’t want to.  I know he doesn’t necessarily have a choice, but with his contract, unless someone can absorb 19M.. he kinda does. 

[Bleedbuffaloblue]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:10 PM, strive_for_five_guy said:

Would love it, but how are we going to afford it with current cap situation and other needs?

Answer is, we can’t!

[GETTOTHE50]

This thread is like non-degradable ocean waste that sits on top of the surface and just floats around 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I wouldn’t rule out including a WR in the trade either though.  If we can land Hopkins, no one outside Diggs is safe given the amount of upgrade Hopkins is.  Gabe is entering the final year of his deal, and I think it’s fair to say they don’t value him enough to pay him what the market will dictate given how much interest they have had in WRs that would be blatant or potential upgrades to him like Hopkins, OBJ, Jeudy, and a first round WR. 

Now, at this point I am skeptical we land Hopkins.  I think Hopkins was the fall back plan if they didn’t get a big time weapon prospect in the draft.  Now that they added Kincaid, I’m not so sure they are going to be as inclined to do what it takes to get him.  There are only so many balls to go around, and this team is pretty deep with weapons after the upgrades that have been made this offseason.  
 

I would love to get Hopkins still, but I’ve gone from thinking it was quite possible or close to happening, to more it’s still possible, just not as likely.  

Agree.  
 

My only point of contention is that our WR room is still a lot of unknowns.  
 

Can Gabe be a high level WR2?

 

Can Shakir be a reliable target?

 

Can Harty stay healthy?

 

We’re a Diggs sprained ankle away from playing 2-4 weeks with Harty and Davis as our starting outside WR’s.  

 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the guys you displayed didn't display that on 2 different teams.

 

Is Diggs the only true, passionate, competitive spirit on this team?--the only one who was very upset over that loss?   Because I didn't see a line behind Diggs to get at Josh Allen.

Really doesn't make sense for the other players to line up behind Diggs to yell at Allen when they weren't doing their job.

 

How about the reverse to Diggs.  How often have you seen QBs get in a WRs face over the years but no other players were lining up behind them to yell at the WR?  That's ok for a QB to call out a WR but not the other way around when the QB is missing plays?

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

This conversation is as pointless as those still stating that the Bills should get a dome. That ship sailed way over 2 years ago. Same with the nonsensical D-Hop talk. Beane stated emphatically again yesterday that - "He's open to any free agent receiver, as long as they'll play for about $2M dollars. We have no cap space, and we aren't setting out team back financially for 2023 or 2024". That's about as clear cut is it can get, yet here we are. Some people just like to waste our time I guess.           

 

Yes, this thread length is comically long...and I think there are some people here who have definitely clanged to life on this story for sure, but I will say this in their defense...this particular story has been hard core gas lit by not only the media, but our own players, and Hopkins himself.  Media has reportedly linked us as one of the 3 destinations per "sources".  Hopkins has not only dropped hints at Buffalo for weeks now, but he has flat out said he wants to play here to the media and to fellow Bills players.  Our own players have talked about him wanting to play here and some of them have posted pics with Hopkins further fanning the flames that maybe something was close.  

 

So, all in all...I don't think anyone is here cuz they like to "waste our time", this story is actually one of the few that had pretty significant teeth to it and that bite kept getting refreshed along the way with new stuff.  Granted, reading all the 267 pagres of posts in this thread can be a bit of a waste of time because its the same regurgitated conversation over and over again in between new things that come out from players or the media gas lighting new hope/speculation.  

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Really doesn't make sense for the other players to line up behind Diggs to yell at Allen when they weren't doing their job.

 

How about the reverse to Diggs.  How often have you seen QBs get in a WRs face over the years but no other players were lining up behind them to yell at the WR?  That's ok for a QB to call out a WR but not the other way around when the QB is missing plays?

 

 

So now you’re saying that Diggs was the only guy who was “doing his job” so it “makes sense” that he should be the one guy to yell at Josh Allen??

 

Diggs caught 4 balls on 10 targets for 35 yards.  

[Mcg]

Buffalo needs a number 2 they cannot go into next season with Davis as a Two.

 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

But when you look at his outbursts, none came when we were winning, even when he had few targets.

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/video-stefon-diggs-throws-helmet-anger/531588

[The Wiz]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

So now you’re saying that Diggs was the only guy who was “doing his job” so it “makes sense” that he should be the one guy to yell at Josh Allen??

 

Diggs caught 4 balls on 10 targets for 35 yards.  

Was this one of those 10 targets where Diggs was overthrown by 3 yards?

 

 

 

Also remember the reason everyone really wanted to get Hopkins.  So that Diggs wasn't double teamed all the time.

[Success]

26 minutes ago, Mcg said:

Buffalo needs a number 2 they cannot go into next season with Davis as a Two.

 

 

We have a top 10 WR corps in the league right now.  We really don't need to add anyone at this point.

 

[machine gun kelly]

I’m still hopeful on Hopkins.  We managed 6 picks and moving up two spots, had a productive free agency, and the final piece is a next years draft issue by grabbing Hopkins.  Add another year on his contract to smooth out the hit.  
 

We have an extra 3rd with the comp pick for Edmunds.  AZ is never getting a 1st or 2nd for a 31 yr old WR when two years ago had an injury that kept him out part of the year, and last year a PED hit.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

We have a top 10 WR corps in the league right now.  We really don't need to add anyone at this point.

 

Maybe?..  If our QB wasn’t Josh Allen, do you still believe Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, Sherfield & Shorter is a top 10 WR room?

 

 

[Success]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Maybe?..  If our QB wasn’t Josh Allen, do you still believe Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, Sherfield & Shorter is a top 10 WR room?

 

 

 

Hmmmm....not a bad question.  

 

I guess it doesn't matter, because he IS Allen.  But regardless, w/ the addition of Kincaid, Sherfield & Harty, and a real running game, we'll have one of the top passing attacks in the league (imo).

 

I don't see adding to that as a priority.  The Pats had a top QB and won 6 titles without any real investment in the WR position, except for Moss.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Maybe?..  If our QB wasn’t Josh Allen, do you still believe Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, Sherfield & Shorter is a top 10 WR room?

 

 

 

 

It's not.  No.   Still no top-half-of-league WR2.  Hopefully this Kincaid plan works out but if not they need somebody to play way above reasonable expectations based on their track record to be a very good WR corps.   Right now it's Diggs, a very good WR3 and a bunch of question marks.

[ProcessTruster]

feeling pretty sure that ship has sailed

[papazoid]

still say dhop traded or cut before week #1

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

still say dhop traded or cut before week #1

 

Yeah that's the likelihood I think.    They've moved on from him.   They aren't going go pay him $19M to catch passes from a backup QB and possibly finish last in the division and then additionally risk him getting injured and guaranteeing his 2024 salary as well.   

[Mr. WEO]

50 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Was this one of those 10 targets where Diggs was overthrown by 3 yards?

 

 

 

Also remember the reason everyone really wanted to get Hopkins.  So that Diggs wasn't double teamed all the time.

 

That's one target...

 

And yes everyone understands why they they want the Bills to pick up Hopkins.  That's not the topic of our conversation. 

 

As for being "double teamed all the time"... not really

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's one target...

 

And yes everyone understands why they they want the Bills to pick up Hopkins.  That's not the topic of our conversation. 

 

As for being "double teamed all the time"... not really

 

 

The idea of Diggs being "double teamed all the time" is hyperbolic. But that stat-line above is anecdotal, and ignores a lot of context. If it's a run play, or RPO with a handoff, and Diggs is on the field, he won't be double-covered. If it's a 4 WR set, he probably won't be double-covered. If the opposing defense is blitzing, he probably won't be double-covered. If the opposing D has an elite corner, he probably won't be double-covered.

 

But the fact that Diggs (according to that stat line) is the third most double-covered WR in the league perfectly exemplifies why we need a far better #2 than we currently appear to have.

[Mr. WEO]

33 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

The idea of Diggs being "double teamed all the time" is hyperbolic. But that stat-line above is anecdotal, and ignores a lot of context. If it's a run play, or RPO with a handoff, and Diggs is on the field, he won't be double-covered. If it's a 4 WR set, he probably won't be double-covered. If the opposing defense is blitzing, he probably won't be double-covered. If the opposing D has an elite corner, he probably won't be double-covered.

 

But the fact that Diggs (according to that stat line) is the third most double-covered WR in the league perfectly exemplifies why we need a far better #2 than we currently appear to have.

 

Anecdotes are not stats.

 

The fact is, Diggs is the most open WR in that group....for5 of the 6 reasons you listed.  Top WRs are rarely double covered.  

 

 

[Success]

Gotta say - I'm genuinely surprised at the downvotes to my "we don't need another WR" comment.

 

The Colts would have had multiple championships with Peyton Manning if they followed the Pats lead - invest in the trenches, build the running game.  The Colts always went for MORE receivers, and the rest of the team was lacking because of it.

 

[TOboy]

12 minutes ago, Success said:

Gotta say - I'm genuinely surprised at the downvotes to my "we don't need another WR" comment.

 

The Colts would have had multiple championships with Peyton Manning if they followed the Pats lead - invest in the trenches, build the running game.  The Colts always went for MORE receivers, and the rest of the team was lacking because of it.

 

We don’t NEED more WR’s. We can get it done with what we have now. 
 

However, if we can add DHop it’ll make it more likely that we get the job done this year. He and Diggs, Davis, Knox, Kincaid, unstoppable. Especially with our improved line. 

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's one target...

 

And yes everyone understands why they they want the Bills to pick up Hopkins.  That's not the topic of our conversation. 

 

As for being "double teamed all the time"... not really

 

 

Sorry was at the amerks game tonight.

 

So basically you're saying he was doubled just as much but was open more than any of the other top receivers based off those stats.  Again, why didn't he do his job and why wouldn't he complain?  If he was open 60% of the time and didn't get targeted in double coverage then he shouldn't be upset.  right?

Edited April 30, 2023 by The Wiz

[JohnNord]

After 268 pages of pure hype for the Hopkins trade…nothing happens?  That shows what you get for believing liars on Twitter 

[Success]

32 minutes ago, TOboy said:

We don’t NEED more WR’s. We can get it done with what we have now. 
 

However, if we can add DHop it’ll make it more likely that we get the job done this year. He and Diggs, Davis, Knox, Kincaid, unstoppable. Especially with our improved line. 

 

That's fair.

 

Naturally, I'd be thrilled if we got him.  

 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's not.  No.   Still no top-half-of-league WR2.  Hopefully this Kincaid plan works out but if not they need somebody to play way above reasonable expectations based on their track record to be a very good WR corps.   Right now it's Diggs, a very good WR3 and a bunch of question marks.

and of course in addition to a hole at number two, there is the implicit issue of what if diggs has a sprained ankle? 
 

Gets real dicey real quickly. 

[ColoradoBills]

I believe Beane had interest in Hopkins pre-draft, but when a deal wasn't done by the time he picked it was OVER.

 

He brought in 2 UFAs and drafted a 1st round F position TE and another WR.  No way he is interested in Hopkins anymore.

 

The candlelight vigil is over, let me know when the memorial service is scheduled.

[Warriorspikes51]

19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

I believe Beane had interest in Hopkins pre-draft, but when a deal wasn't done by the time he picked it was OVER.

 

He brought in 2 UFAs and drafted a 1st round F position TE and another WR.  No way he is interested in Hopkins anymore.

 

The candlelight vigil is over, let me know when the memorial service is scheduled.

I’m sure he’s interested if the $ is redone or Hopkins is released

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I’m sure he’s interested if the $ is redone or Hopkins is released

 

I have to say the ship has sailed after the draft.  I'd be shocked he takes a trade and if Hopkins is on the free market he will want (and get)

more than Beane has to offer.  We all have our opinions and mine is it's done.

[Warriorspikes51]

Since we didn’t draft a DT, Beane is highly likely to sign a veteran as well extend DaQuan Jones. He could extend Oliver or put him out there on the trade block. We could free up 15 mil in cap space

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Anecdotes are not stats.

 

The fact is, Diggs is the most open WR in that group....for5 of the 6 reasons you listed.  Top WRs are rarely double covered.  

 

 

... ok... 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Success said:

Gotta say - I'm genuinely surprised at the downvotes to my "we don't need another WR" comment.

 

The Colts would have had multiple championships with Peyton Manning if they followed the Pats lead - invest in the trenches, build the running game.  The Colts always went for MORE receivers, and the rest of the team was lacking because of it.

 

E James had 5 seasons over 1200 yards, 3 over 1500 and 1 over 1700 in 7 seasons (he missed half a season  and several games in another).  
 

They missed out on many SBs because their coach was a bum who couldn’t properly prepare them for the post season. 
 

 

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Sorry was at the amerks game tonight.

 

So basically you're saying he was doubled just as much but was open more than any of the other top receivers based off those stats.  Again, why didn't he do his job and why wouldn't he complain?  If he was open 60% of the time and didn't get targeted in double coverage then he shouldn't be upset.  right?

 

He wasn’t even close to double teamed all the time as you claimed.  Therefore the rationale of bringing in Hopkins to draw off the double teams is weak. 
 

Diggs was targeted for a whopping 27% of Allen’s attempts.  That’s as many as Davis and Knox combined.  Then, in the final game, he was targeted 10 more times, catching 4 for 35.   He was AS useless as anyone else on the field, so, no—he absolutely does not get to yell at his QB in game. He can take his beef to the locker room.  But that wouldn’t be consistent with his style….

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Since we didn’t draft a DT, Beane is highly likely to sign a veteran as well extend DaQuan Jones. He could extend Oliver or put him out there on the trade block. We could free up 15 mil in cap space

 

Ed Oliver being traded was only ever a thing amongst the same type of fans who wanted Edmunds traded last year. He was never going anywhere.

 

Now that the Draft's over, he's even more so not going to be Traded. There's some decent depth options and fringe starters out there. A lot of them pretty long in the tooth. But nothing the caliber of Ed Oliver to replace him with.

 

I almost expect him to be extended at this point. Beane has talked up wanting to keep him every time his name has been brought up. And I know he hasn't lived up to his lofty expectations following his College career and being a Top 10 Pick - but he's at times dominant (especially when Miller was in the lineup) and we could do a lot worse.

[BananaB]

I’m not buying that Dhop is fully off the table. A lot of guys added but no one has really proven anything on Sundays. Big mistake to go into another season like we did last year

Edited May 1, 2023 by BananaB

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

I’m not buying that Dhop is fully off the table. A lot of guys added but no one has really proven anything on Sundays. Big mistake to go into another season like we did last year

 

Except we're not though. 

 

Dalton Kincaid is a TE in name only. He's going to be spread out wide in the vast majority, if not all of snaps. He was considered the best pass catcher in the entire Draft by many.

 

Deonte Harty proved to be a very intriguing deep threat in 2021. Enough for us to have to compete with other teams and pay him a substantial contract. He has elite speed and playmaking ability.

 

Sherfield put up solid numbers holding down Miami's WR3 spot last year and is expected to be our 5th or 6th pass catching option. Justin Shorter has prototypical measurables for an X WR and you never know how quickly he will be developed.

 

All of this with Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, and Khalil Shakir at WR and Dawson Knox at TE already in the fold.

 

Saying we're going into this season just like last season is just factually wrong. We are in a much better position.

 

Just because you personally feel our additions "haven't proven anything on Sunday's" doesn't mean the moves haven't been made and the roles haven't been filled. Beane's not going to say "BananaB's not impressed, I have to keep adding and forget what I've already done".

 

Arizona from the word go never seemed interested in moving him, unless there were an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse. They appear to be more than comfortable keeping him. They more than have the money to do so.

 

Hopkins seemed open to being moved to a contender and embraced the rumors. But that doesn't mean he's going to become a malcontent and force his way off the team. He could very well just be like "it's not happening? Okay, I'll just take the giant bag Arizona has me under contract for".

 

Even if he were to, at this point with what we did in the Draft and what we already had in place, our financial situation, the positions we didn't address in the Draft that we now have to address with cap space we have to come up with, and Beane consistently saying he's not interested - this idea is as dead as a doornail.

Edited May 1, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Except we're not though. 

 

Dalton Kincaid is a TE in name only. He's going to be spread out wide in the vast majority, if not all of snaps. He was considered the best pass catcher in the entire Draft by many.

 

Deonte Harty proved to be a very intriguing deep threat in 2021. Enough for us to have to compete with other teams and pay him a substantial contract. He has elite speed and playmaking ability.

 

Sherfield put up solid numbers holding down Miami's WR3 spot last year and is expected to be our 5th or 6th pass catching option. Justin Shorter has prototypical measurables for an X WR and you never know how quickly he will be developed.

 

All of this with Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, and Khalil Shakir at WR and Dawson Knox at TE already in the fold.

 

Saying we're going into this season just like last season is just factually wrong. We are in a much better position.

 

Just because you personally feel our additions "haven't proven anything on Sunday's" doesn't mean the moves haven't been made and the roles haven't been filled. Beane's not going to say "BananaB's not impressed, I have to keep adding and forget what I've already done".

 

Arizona from the word go never seemed interested in moving him, unless there were an offer they absolutely couldn't refuse. They appear to be more than comfortable keeping him. They more than have the money to do so.

 

Hopkins seemed open to being moved to a contender and embraced the rumors. But that doesn't mean he's going to become a malcontent and force his way off the team. He could very well just be like "it's not happening? Okay, I'll just take the giant bag Arizona has me under contract for".

 

Even if he were to, at this point with what we did in the Draft and what we already had in place, our financial situation, the positions we didn't address in the Draft we now have to address with cap space we don't have, and Beane consistently saying he's not interested - it's really time to let it go.

Two points: I believe Kincaid will actually get a lot snaps as a big slot. 

This is not going to help this thread achieve its natural destiny of 300 pages.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Dr. Who