Dual #1 WR concept

[TheWeatherMan]

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The 2023 WR draft class is not looking all that deep and the FA market looks very weak.    Considering this, would OBD subscribe to this concept and be comfortable trading away a #1 or #2 pick and spending a huge chunk of cap space on another WR?  If so, who would you target? If not where should we allocate the picks and available cap?

 

A quick look at the salaries of top WR’s playing on bad teams leads me to believe Deandre Hopkins (30) and Mike Evans (29) / (if Brady retires) might be available. 

[Bangarang]

Fix. The. O-line.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The 2023 WR draft class is not looking all that deep and the FA market looks very weak.    Considering this, would OBD subscribe to this concept and be comfortable trading away a #1 or #2 pick and spending a huge chunk of cap space on another WR?  If so, who would you target? If not where should we allocate the picks and available cap?

 

A quick look at the salaries of top WR’s playing on bad teams leads me to believe Deandre Hopkins (30) and Mike Evans (29) / (if Brady retires) might be available. 

The bills are not going to have money to sign a big name free agent anyway could be the reason why they were hoping for Gabe Davis to be able to step up and take that number to roll

[Tanoros]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The bills are not going to have money to sign a big name free agent anyway could be the reason why they were hoping for Gabe Davis to be able to step up and take that number to roll

Agree, for us to have two #1’s we are going to have to draft and develop for the second. We need contributors on rookies salaries in order to afford everything. As much as I’d love a second #1 wr, more than anything I just want another elite player on the offensive side of the ball. We have Allen and Diggs which is great, but we need one more atleast. With this upcoming draft, I feel like we need to land someone early who can be a major contributor on offense with the ceiling to be elite. 
 

I’d even settle for an elite offensive guard. I’d prefer another position, but an elite person on the o-line wouldn’t be horrible. 
 

It’s going to be an interesting offseason. Now that things are getting tight, I’m curious to see how Beane handles things and which direction we go. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Tanoros said:

Agree, for us to have two #1’s we are going to have to draft and develop for the second. We need contributors on rookies salaries in order to afford everything. As much as I’d love a second #1 wr, more than anything I just want another elite player on the offensive side of the ball. We have Allen and Diggs which is great, but we need one more atleast. With this upcoming draft, I feel like we need to land someone early who can be a major contributor on offense with the ceiling to be elite. 
 

I’d even settle for an elite offensive guard. I’d prefer another position, but an elite person on the o-line wouldn’t be horrible. 
 

It’s going to be an interesting offseason. Now that things are getting tight, I’m curious to see how Beane handles things and which direction we go. 

That’s why I had no problem with them taking cook in the second round of this last draft he fits everything the bills do and has breaking game speed

Edited December 29, 2022 by John from Riverside

[NewEra]

If we want a stud WR opposite Diggs, it’s going to have to happen via the draft imo.  No way we pay another FA WR big money.  I don’t think there is even one legit WR2, available via FA this year, let alone WR1b.  Maybe a handful of WR3s.  Lots of WR4-6

 

Sign a vet or 2 to low gtd prove it deals and draft one in rd 1 or 2 imo.  

[Fleezoid]

I'm sorry, but this has a Capt Obvious ring to it. What team wouldn't want a dual threat WR set. I'd actually love to have a triple threat WR set. Those just aren't easy to manufacture.

[Nextmanup]

40 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

...right after we get a proven #2 WR first.

 

It should be top priority;  Completely overhauling the O Line should be Top Priority #2.

 

So we will probably draft d-linemen!

 

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

41 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The 2023 WR draft class is not looking all that deep and the FA market looks very weak.    Considering this, would OBD subscribe to this concept and be comfortable trading away a #1 or #2 pick and spending a huge chunk of cap space on another WR?  If so, who would you target? If not where should we allocate the picks and available cap?

 

A quick look at the salaries of top WR’s playing on bad teams leads me to believe Deandre Hopkins (30) and Mike Evans (29) / (if Brady retires) might be available. 

 

These teams you mention with two top WR's for the most part drafted at least one of them and then may traded for the second.  Bills have already done that with Diggs so as others have said time to draft and develop the 2nd one.  Most of those teams too Miami and Bengals for certain, will be interesting to see what they do when those rookie contracts end, will they be able to sign them all?  Maybe Miami can as they don't also have the big $$ QB at least not yet and doubt Tua will be become one of them either.

[Charles Romes]

Time for big game Gabe to play as a 1

[The Frankish Reich]

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

[whorlnut]

34 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I'm sorry, but this has a Capt Obvious ring to it. What team wouldn't want a dual threat WR set. I'd actually love to have a triple threat WR set. Those just aren't easy to manufacture.

Maybe not, but that hasn’t stopped Beane from trying to do that with DEs. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The “concept” of having two top-flight wideouts, as opposed to one or none, is a good one, yes. 

[TheWeatherMan]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

Agree, but how many of the aforementioned teams have a superior oline?   Can a top flight group of receivers and a future HOF QB nullify the need for a top notch oline?  

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The bills are not going to have money to sign a big name free agent anyway could be the reason why they were hoping for Gabe Davis to be able to step up and take that number to roll

This has been proven false many times.  Some one correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand the Bills can free up $50M + with restructures next year. 

[TheWeatherMan]

1 hour ago, Fleezoid said:

I'm sorry, but this has a Capt Obvious ring to it. What team wouldn't want a dual threat WR set. I'd actually love to have a triple threat WR set. Those just aren't easy to manufacture.

Maybe a team without a franchise QB?  The last 3 teams to win the SB had top notch receivers and well above average QBs.  

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

That’s 4 teams over the last 35 years.  The 90’s Cowboys Dynasty and The Patriots Dynasty did not have dual top 30 WR’s

[KDIGGZ]

Step 1: get 2 amazing WR's

Step 2: pay 2 amazing WR's

 

Uhhhh most teams can't even do step 1 and good luck with step 2. Did you see how much Diggs and Hill and Adams signed for?

 

 

Also the Chiefs have 0 #1 WR's and they seem to be doing fine. Their best receiver is their TE

[CEN-CAL17]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

This will never be the main focus on offense, not with JA17….

 

He has great ability to extend plays. Best in the league probably. That said you get him solid/good Oline play and put big time weapon’s around him.

 

Id say the need for a 1b WR is a big need. Allows Diggs to play more slot (big need this offseason is the slot). Diggs plays more in slot. And yes JA17 gets another playmaker.  Gabe Davis isn’t that 1b type… not even a great #2 this year.

 

Fans want the 2015 Cowboys Oline. Why? So JA17 can sit in the pocket 2 seconds longer? His biggest plays usually come outside the pocket. Get him the next Diggs, to play with Diggs!

[Chicken Boo]

I love it.  If you aren't going to spend the necessary capital on the RB position or don't believe it to be of importance, then the receiving corps should be the absolute best that it can be.

 

I've never understood the thought of "we need a #2 or #3 WR".  No!  We need the best talent that can be acquired.  Let the chips fall where they may after that.

 

We need game breakers on the offensive side of the ball not named Josh Allen.

[co_springs_billsfan]

[Chicken Boo]

16 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

That’s 4 teams over the last 35 years.  The 90’s Cowboys Dynasty and The Patriots Dynasty did not have dual top 30 WR’s

 

To be fair, the 90s Cowboys were centered around that beastly o-line and Emmitt Smith.  They didn't really need another #1 opposite Irvin, even though they had a young Jimmy Smith yet to his stride.  

 

The Bucs were left off that list as well (Evans, Godwin, Brown)

 

The crux is, with the Bills current brand of football, the "top flight WR corps" route would be most beneficial. 

[The Frankish Reich]

23 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Maybe a team without a franchise QB?  The last 3 teams to win the SB had top notch receivers and well above average QBs.  

That’s 4 teams over the last 35 years.  The 90’s Cowboys Dynasty and The Patriots Dynasty did not have dual top 30 WR’s

If you really want me to go on (and on, and on, and on) I'm willing to do so ...

 

Marvin Harrision and Reggie Wayne (peak Peyton Manning Colts)

Diggs and Thelen (Vikes)

Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb (peak Aaron Rodgers Packers)

 

I'm not trying to be difficult here. Yes, many, many teams have won with one elite receiver and a couple of good ones. But all other things being equal: yes, it's better to have two great players at a position than it is to have one. It's not like teams aren't trying to do that. It's just that in any given year there aren't all that many elite receivers, and you kind of have to spread the money around to other positions too ...

 

[TheWeatherMan]

8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

If you really want me to go on (and on, and on, and on) I'm willing to do so ...

 

Marvin Harrision and Reggie Wayne (peak Peyton Manning Colts)

Diggs and Thelen (Vikes)

Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb (peak Aaron Rodgers Packers)

 

I'm not trying to be difficult here. Yes, many, many teams have won with one elite receiver and a couple of good ones. But all other things being equal: yes, it's better to have two great players at a position than it is to have one. It's not like teams aren't trying to do that. It's just that in any given year there aren't all that many elite receivers, and you kind of have to spread the money around to other positions too ...

 

Vikings didn’t win a SB or Championship, and Randall Cobb…really?  Please continue to go “on and on”.  

[jwhit34]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

 

How about Bills history: Andre Reed and James Lofton, Jerry Butler and Frank Lewis, and for one season Eric Moulds and Peerless Price.

 

That said, 4 of the 6 were drafted by the Bills so I would say use a 1 or 2 in draft for a WR. Draft one OL in first 2 rounds and maybe another in 3rd or 4th. TO sustain, they are going to have to consistently hit on the middle round picks

[TheWeatherMan]

22 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

To be fair, the 90s Cowboys were centered around that beastly o-line and Emmitt Smith.  They didn't really need another #1 opposite Irvin, even though they had a young Jimmy Smith yet to his stride.  

 

The Bucs were left off that list as well (Evans, Godwin, Brown)

 

The crux is, with the Bills current brand of football, the "top flight WR corps" route would be most beneficial. 

Agree on the Cowboys, one of the best olines in the history of the sport.  The NFL wasn’t really a passing league at that point.  A few teams like the 90’s Bills prioritized the passing game, but they were an anomaly.  BTW I did include the Bucs in my OP.  

[Logic]

So you're saying that having TWO really good wide receivers is better than having just one?!

Wow. Big if true.

 

[AuntieEm]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

 

 

   This.  You give Allen  solid protection there's very few teams that will out score  Allen. He'd pick apart a defense trying to keep up with just a bunch of JAGS as long as they can catch and they know how to find open spots for Allen to feed them the ball. A nfl worthy receiver should already have catching skills and with a bit of practice should learn to break open for the balls Allen can deliver.  So Allen can easily make stars out of capable receivers he doesn't have to have the best weapons to shine and do damage.  By building a wall of protection you also prevent injury to the teams most important weapon.  The team minus Allen is good but not many of us would place them as  high SB contenders if they didn't have Josh.  And I'm not saying they would be incapable of winning minus Josh but it would be a tremendous upset if they did compared to  with Allen.

 

 So. Protect  Allen and many wrs can become stars with him. Without Allen you could have the top 5 wrs but with a lesser qb that might not help.

Edited December 29, 2022 by AuntieEm

[HailMary]

Trade for Jerry Jeudy

[TheWeatherMan]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

So you're saying that having TWO really good wide receivers is better than having just one?!

Wow. Big if true.

 

So you’re saying you’re too lazy or incapable of reading an entire post and/or taking the time to actually process the content without resorting to a closed minded juvenile response with the hopes of getting a few laughing emoji’s?  Sounds Illogical to me! 

[CEN-CAL17]

19 minutes ago, HailMary said:

Trade for Jerry Jeudy

You know this team doesn’t trade….

 

Watch for Rashee Rice WR SMU fly up the boards in this years draft. Kid is a stud! 96 Receptions, 1355 yds, 10 TDs. 4.3-4.4 kid. 6’2” 205. Team Captain….
 

Should make a name at the Senior Bowl

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by CEN-CAL17

[BearNorth]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

Reed & Lofton, with Thurmal out of the backfield, McKellar/Metzelaars, Beebe to take the top off defenses.  Who do you double?

[Victory Formation]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

Re-sign Devin Singletary and fix the OL so we can produce in a RBBC. Draft two if not three linemen.

 

As far as WR goes next year, I think the Bills should go hard after Mike Gesicki. He will not cost much and having two dual TEs who can catch and block will not only open up the passing game but the run game as well.

[Augie]

One of the benefits of high draft picks is you get a good shot at getting a good player on the cheap for 4-5 years. It would have to be a very special situation to give up that high pick AND have to pay them top dollar. 

 

Yes, we need more WR talent, but we also need to fix the Oline. If the OL is better, so is our run game, which also helps our passing game. Win in the trenches and life gets easier. 

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

So you’re saying you’re too lazy or incapable of reading an entire post and/or taking the time to actually process the content without resorting to a closed minded juvenile response with the hopes of getting a few laughing emoji’s?  Sounds Illogical to me! 

Ya got me!

If you wanted to ask "what WRs should the Bills sign or draft this offseason?", why not just make that the thread title?

Why couch the question in the notion of the "dual #1 WR concept"?

Edited December 29, 2022 by Logic

[BearNorth]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

I think the Bills should go hard after Mike Gesicki. He will not cost much and having two dual TEs who can catch and block will not only open up the passing game but the run game as well.

A side benefit of our substandard O-line is that Knox has developed into a solid run blocker, ranked in the top 10 among TE's in that area.

[Victory Formation]

7 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

A side benefit of our substandard O-line is that Knox has developed into a solid run blocker, ranked in the top 10 among TE's in that area.

Oh, absolutely. Knox has been incredible. I admire how he fought through his brother’s death. Imagine pairing Gesicki up with him. Imagine.

[djp14150]

4 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The 2023 WR draft class is not looking all that deep and the FA market looks very weak.    Considering this, would OBD subscribe to this concept and be comfortable trading away a #1 or #2 pick and spending a huge chunk of cap space on another WR?  If so, who would you target? If not where should we allocate the picks and available cap?

 

A quick look at the salaries of top WR’s playing on bad teams leads me to believe Deandre Hopkins (30) and Mike Evans (29) / (if Brady retires) might be available. 

 

are you measuring putpre ly by catches?

 

having 2 top receivers you can’t do unless one is paid and one is on a rookie contract. 
 

no team can afford to pay for 2and pay their qb all not on rookie/ very team friendly deals.

[TheWeatherMan]

23 minutes ago, Logic said:

Ya got me!

If you wanted to ask "what WRs should the Bills sign or draft this offseason?", why not just make that the thread title?

Why couch the question in the notion of the "dual #1 WR concept"?

I apologize you are correct, I shouldn’t expect people fully read and try comprehend posts prior to responding.  I’m such a dingus. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Of course it’s something you hope to do, but it’s hard. 
 

Diggs was good in minny, and they paid a big price for him. His performance has been the best one could have hoped. Doing this times two takes a real stroke of luck with someone who outperforms their pick of free agent price, some high end draft capital or a lot of cap. 
 

in my view Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald were an under rated all time great wr combo. 

Another is carter moss

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Agree, but how many of the aforementioned teams have a superior oline?   Can a top flight group of receivers and a future HOF QB nullify the need for a top notch oline?  

This has been proven false many times.  Some one correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand the Bills can free up $50M + with restructures next year. 

Been hasn’t really shown the propensity to do that yet he has been very shrewd with his cap management

[Logic]

52 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

I apologize you are correct, I shouldn’t expect people fully read and try comprehend posts prior to responding.  I’m such a dingus. 

Ya know what? You're right.

My initial reply to you was flippant and rude and belittling, and I didn't mean it to be. I was trying to crack a joke and be clever, but it came across as me just being a dick. I never intend to be needlessly jerky to strangers. I apologize. It was crappy of me. Mea culpa.

To answer the question you originally posed...I'm sick of signing aging free agent WRs (like Brown and Sanders and Beasley), and it's not even that good a free agent WR class to begin with IMO. Not only that, but I imagine most of the Bills' funds will be tied up in trying to re-sign guys like Edmunds, Poyer, and Oliver.

All of that said, I really like this year's WR draft class, and it is my hope that the Bills spend their 1st round pick on a playmaking WR. So long as they can find other ways to address the offensive line with some meaningful resources, I'm also fine with them trading up in the 1st round to get a real blue chip receiver. One of the two or three best in the class, whomever they deem that to be. The timeline would line up perfectly with Diggs' age, i.e. by the time the rookie receiver is due for a second contract, Diggs will be 34 and on an expiring contract himself.