Frazier & McD's defensive strategies a potential postseason liability

[Toyo321]

It's great to be 11-3 and honestly if it were not for some really bad defensive mistakes this year,  we surely would be 12-2 or 13-1 at this point.

 

I said this last year and now it is a concern.  I believe that Frazier's and McD's reluctance to go away from the nickel D and zone coverage, and their adaptability is going to hurt us this year in the playoffs.

 

1) Our D-Line got annihilated last night by Miami.  And it's not the only time this year it's happened too.

2) Milano had a horrible game.  Not being able to contain to the outside on run plays killed us in this game.

3) The poor LB and DB tackling has become a major issue.

3) Lack of talk on the field, safeties and the LB's cost us with opposition putting points on the board again last night on big passing plays.

4) The D has not looked good on too many occasions, like last night, and this has happened numerous times this season.

 

Teams that have lit us up this year passing against our D, 300+ yards.     Vikes, Browns, Pitt, KC

Teams that have lit us up this year rushing against our D, 100+ yards       Ravens, Packers, Jets, Vikes, Phins

 

Frazier has lost his edge when it comes to preparing and executing game plans against other teams this year.

This team is so set on this Nickel scheme that I don't believe this year our D will be able to be relied upon in the postseason, especially without Von & Micah.

 

Plus I see Dorsey as a real handicap this year going into the postseason. 

That even makes the D's performance more important this year, than last year. 

Our D needs to evolve as we go to the playoffs this year.  If not we are screwed.

We are only going to go as far as our D is going to take us this year. 

JA17 is a like having Ace in the hole when playing poker.  But your Ace is not always going to be there for every game.  Especially in the postseason.

 

I hope I am wrong,  but if we play D as inconsistently as we did last night we are in trouble.

 

Like I said in another post, the upcoming Cincinnati game is going to be a real test where we stack up this year going into the postseason.

 

We will see after the Cinci game where we truly are.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Toyo321

[Trock]

It’s the lack of fundamentals that is really concerning. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Trock said:

It’s the lack of fundamentals that is really concerning. 

 

This. Nothing wrong with the scheme. The playcalling isn't perfect but it is good enough. The lack of fundamentals are a major concern. Particularly tackling.

[Bangarang]

Lots of people in the GDT were calling for Frazier to be fired. I think if that were to happen then Eric Washington is the likely replacement and that would be a downgrade. 
 

Tackling is a problem but I’m not convinced a change at DC fixes that.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Bangarang

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Lots of people in the GDT were calling for Frazier to be fired. I think if that were to happen then Eric Washington is the likely replacement and that would be a downgrade. 
 

Tackling is a problem but I’m not convinced a change at DC fixes that.

 

Firing Frazier would be a serious error. He is one of the best DCs in football.

[AuntieEm]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. Nothing wrong with the scheme. The playcalling isn't perfect but it is good enough. The lack of fundamentals are a major concern. Particularly tackling.

 

   Now I may be incorrect but I tend to think that some of the 'softbess' we see at times in the game might be not being timid just being aware that the team cannot sustain more serious injuries and so they may not bring the lumber so to speak when they go to tackle. 

 

   Did see white make a few solid tackles butas he's trying to prove he's back to his old self to himself he will tend to put in more solid hits to feel like his old self.

 

    Milano has a known history of getting knicked up no surprise when he does deliver the hits like against white  vs Jets that caused rib injury.

 

  So if they feel the offense is getting the job done and they get dinged for some yards I'm ok with the tradeoff when it keeps the injuries away.

 

   There will be future seasons where the team can get on a 21 game win streak finally relegating the 72 Dolphins into drinking Metamucil instead of champagne. 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by AuntieEm

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Gene1973 said:

The game has passed him by.

 

No it hasn't. 

[GoBills808]

Defensively the issue imo is they're a little inflexible wrt game planning and scheme specific for opponents and often unwilling to adjust rapidly in game

 

There's definitely a logic behind it but it's bend don't break taken to its logical conclusion and when you throw injuries to thin out the talent you start looking at very thin margins

Edited December 18, 2022 by GoBills808
Grammar

[SCBills]

Even with the Hyde/Von injuries, the defense has far too much talent & investment to have such poor performances against good offenses in big games.  
 

I don’t care that they can shut down the Jets or Patriots.. Cool, fantastic. 
 

You won’t shut down a good offense, but at least show that you can impose your will at times. 

[Codyny13]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Defensively the issue imo is they're a little inflexible wrt game planning and scheme specific for opponents and often unwilling to adjust rapidly in game

 

There's definitely a logic behind it but it's bend don't break taken to it's logical conclusion and when you throw injuries to thin out the talent you start looking at very thin margins

My gripe as well. Def seems to be an inflexibility and a failure to adapt on the fly. Great players can cover up some blemishes, and you saw that last night particularly with Hamlin vs Hyde. Hamlin has the ability to come up and make a hit but he misses far too many tackles and was consistently out of position to help over the top on long balls. I’m incredibly happy to beat a good team, but we def need to get better quick in a number of areas. These coordinates can’t die on their crosses

[Bangarang]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Firing Frazier would be a serious error. He is one of the best DCs in football.

Agreed

7 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

He's old, unwilling to adjust.

Meaning what? 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

This is a fair point but at this point they aren't going to change the way they approach that side of the ball

 

And fyi the Niners and Chargers played Dolphins differently...Niners stuck to their guns and let Tua make mistakes, Chargers had a great game plan w disrupting timing and clouding coverages

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

I’m certainly not in love with the defense after last night, but the two big Dolphins TD throws were a miscommunication between Edmunds and Poyer, where Poyer either didn’t see or understand what Edmunds was conveying to him..  The other where White is playing press man and decides to put zero hands on the WR and they run right by him. 

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

That’s our identity. That’s who we’ve been since McD and Frazier walked into the building and to their credit it’s worked every year.
 

I don’t think an extra LB solves our tackling problem last night. 

[Yobogoya!]

I do wish Frazier had some more tricks up his sleeve. When he’s got a healthy roster he’s proven he can shut down some potent offensive attacks. I don’t know that he’s done an elite job compensating for our losses this year. 
 

What gets me is the extremely lopsided investment we’ve put into the defensive side of the team, just to field a line that’s absolutely average at generating pressure and a secondary that rarely, if ever, manages to make a play on the ball. 

[Luka]

Potentially? We already know it is. Just see last year. 

[Eastport bills]

23 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

It's great to be 11-3 and honestly if it were not for some really bad defensive mistakes this year,  we surely would be 12-2 or 13-1 at this point.

 

I have said this before and it is a concern.  I believe that Frazier's and McD's reluctance to go away from the nickel D and zone coverage, and their adaptability is going to hurt us this year in the playoffs.

 

1) Our D-Line got annihilated last night by Miami.  And it's not the only time this year it's happened too.

2) Milano had a horrible game.  Not being able to contain to the outside on run plays killed us in this game.

3) The poor LB and DB tackling has become a major issue.

3) Lack of talk on the field, safeties and the LB's cost us with opposition putting points on the board again last night on big passing plays.

4) The D has not looked good on too many games like last night,  numerous times this season.

 

Teams that have lit us up this year passing against our D, 300+ yards.     Vikes, Browns, Pitt, KC

Teams that have lit us up this year rushing against our D, 100+ yards       Ravens, Packers, Jets, Vikes, Phins

 

Frazier has lost his edge when it comes to preparing and executing game plans against other teams this year.

This team is so set on this Nickel scheme that I don't believe this year our D will be able to be relied upon in the postseason, especially without Von & Micah.

 

Plus I see Dorsey as a real handicap this year going into the postseason. 

That even makes the D's performance more important this year, than last year. 

Our D needs to evolve as we go to the playoffs this year.  If not we are screwed.

We are only going to go as far as our D is going to take us this year. 

JA17 is a like having Ace in the hole when playing poker.  But your Ace is not always going to be there for every game.  Especially in the postseason.

 

I hope I am wrong,  but if we play D as inconsistently as we did last night we are in trouble.

 

Like I said i another post, the upcoming Cincinnati game is going to be a real test where we stack up this year going into the postseason.

 

We will see after the Cinci game where we truly are.

The defense was clearly geared to protect against Hill, Waddle the TE. They hadn’t been running the ball well the last 2 games. The D-line had a bad game, but our secondary on the whole was confused and was victimized on several occasions. White looked good but Hamlin, Jackson and Elam struggled . The roughing the punter penalty made the game closer than it should have been. If we limit teams to FGs  and win the turnover battle, do you think the teams we face can stop our offense. I like our chances. Davis played like a number 2. We got great production from TE and our slot guys and when it counted,  we ran it down their throats. 

[Toyo321]

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

" we ran it down their throats "

Not even close to the way they gutted our D running the ball.

 

 

 

[kkim0904]

They will fix it when it counts...

[GolfandBills]

They didn’t have a great plan for sure but still made some plays.  Good win.  Move on 

[kkim0904]

Our D carried the team when our offense struggled.

[OldTimer1960]

Watching what I thought was a very good Dallas D give up 31 to Zay Jones and Marvin Jones Jr, I wonder if the NFL rules have made it nearly impossible to play good defense.  Jets and Niners seem able, but beyond them, defenses are up and down.

 

I miss the days when dominating defenses existed, but that was back when defenses could mug receivers all over the field and were allowed to just annihilate a receiver if he was fortunate enough to make a catch.

[Eastport bills]

2 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Not even close to the way they gutted our D running the ball.

 

 

 

 How about the last 2 drives when Josh ran wild and Motor made 1st downs to set up the crushing FG. We were bad against the run  but when they needed a drive after we tied the score, they got stuffed. We played to win.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

He's old, unwilling to adjust.

You're young. Too willing to fall for anything. No conviction.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

This is a fair point but at this point they aren't going to change the way they approach that side of the ball

 

And fyi the Niners and Chargers played Dolphins differently...Niners stuck to their guns and let Tua make mistakes, Chargers had a great game plan w disrupting timing and clouding coverages

 

Yep. The 9ers actually had a very similar plan to the Bills. The Chargers did something different but they have very different personnel. They kind of have to do something different because their linebackers suck in coverage. Taking nothing away from them, it was a good plan. But it was designed to play specifically to their personnel.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

Frazier’s defense held the Miami offense to their season low 212 total yards while missing key starters, including both safeties. I guess you missed that game.

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

He's old, unwilling to adjust.

These fans hold him like some kind of defensive guru lol....he is just running a safer version of the lovie Smith Tony dungy bs tampon 2 😆 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Gene1973 said:

They sucked yesterday.

So the job they did in holding Miami to that paltry 212 yards in the first meeting is no reflection on Frasier, but yesterday’s game tells his whole story. Got it. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I am hoping for Steve Wilks when Carolina inevitably screws up and decides to hire someone else and someone hires Frazier as a HC. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

I don't know how we fix the OL. A bad OL will ruin any SB aspirations (See KC two years ago). Maybe more quick screens?

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

The defense was clearly geared to protect against Hill, Waddle the TE. They hadn’t been running the ball well the last 2 games. The D-line had a bad game, but our secondary on the whole was confused and was victimized on several occasions. White looked good but Hamlin, Jackson and Elam struggled . The roughing the punter penalty made the game closer than it should have been. If we limit teams to FGs  and win the turnover battle, do you think the teams we face can stop our offense. I like our chances. Davis played like a number 2. We got great production from TE and our slot guys and when it counted,  we ran it down their throats. 

White looked good but got smoked on a go route for a TD.  Considering they had two big plays, accounting for 50% of them isn’t exactly amazing. 

[Freak-O]

Who won? 

[Aussie Joe]

8 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

I don't know how we fix the OL. A bad OL will ruin any SB aspirations (See KC two years ago). 

Unless Allen keeps up the Superman routine …. It’s a lot to ask though 

[Big Turk]

Hyde being out is really showing up in how teams are able to move the ball in the air.

 

Hamlin has been OK to good in most games but he is still a liability in pass coverage. Usually pretty good against the run but not last night.

[Aussie Joe]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Hyde being out is really showing up in how teams are able to move the ball in the air.

 

Hamlin has been OK to good in most games but he is still a liability in pass coverage. Usually pretty good against the run but not last night.

Yep… Hyde is a massive loss… hope he can recover for the playoffs ( probably a tad unrealistic..)…

 

im wondering if Hamlin can get close to that level eventually… another year or two down the track…? 
 

Hyde was no prodigy when he was drafted either …

 

 

[K-9]

22 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Got what? That the D sucked yesterday? Great!

Never mind. 

[Warcodered]

 

[Big Turk]

20 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

But...but...but...I was told he sucked and should be replaced ASAP tho right here on this board!

Edited December 18, 2022 by Big Turk

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

It's great to be 11-3 and honestly if it were not for some really bad defensive mistakes this year,  we surely would be 12-2 or 13-1 at this point.

 

I said this last year and now it is a concern.  I believe that Frazier's and McD's reluctance to go away from the nickel D and zone coverage, and their adaptability is going to hurt us this year in the playoffs.

 

1) Our D-Line got annihilated last night by Miami.  And it's not the only time this year it's happened too.

2) Milano had a horrible game.  Not being able to contain to the outside on run plays killed us in this game.

3) The poor LB and DB tackling has become a major issue.

3) Lack of talk on the field, safeties and the LB's cost us with opposition putting points on the board again last night on big passing plays.

4) The D has not looked good on too many games like last night,  numerous times this season.

 

Teams that have lit us up this year passing against our D, 300+ yards.     Vikes, Browns, Pitt, KC

Teams that have lit us up this year rushing against our D, 100+ yards       Ravens, Packers, Jets, Vikes, Phins

 

Frazier has lost his edge when it comes to preparing and executing game plans against other teams this year.

This team is so set on this Nickel scheme that I don't believe this year our D will be able to be relied upon in the postseason, especially without Von & Micah.

 

Plus I see Dorsey as a real handicap this year going into the postseason. 

That even makes the D's performance more important this year, than last year. 

Our D needs to evolve as we go to the playoffs this year.  If not we are screwed.

We are only going to go as far as our D is going to take us this year. 

JA17 is a like having Ace in the hole when playing poker.  But your Ace is not always going to be there for every game.  Especially in the postseason.

 

I hope I am wrong,  but if we play D as inconsistently as we did last night we are in trouble.

 

Like I said i another post, the upcoming Cincinnati game is going to be a real test where we stack up this year going into the postseason.

 

We will see after the Cinci game where we truly are.

And if we don't start playing D like we did against the Jets, we're done. Why we can't be an attacking defense is beyond me. We need a new DC with an aggressive attitude. It's absolutely aggravating. We don't have the talent to play press against Hill and Waddle?....or have the ability to do that when need be? Why can't we send blitzes when we're stuffing the run game on passing downs? We need some new blood on  the Defensive staff. Josh Allen can't be  like P.Manning with no Defense. We're gonna get screwed with this 1990 Defensive approach.

[NewEra]

Strategies differ game to game.  Of course a game plan could cost us our season.  That’s usually how most seasons end….. for every team.