Frazier & McD's defensive strategies a potential postseason liability

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

supposedly, Frazier showed those teams. I believe it was reported that the bills did press man and dropped backers a lot in their loss to the dolphins— which was copied by the 49ers and chargers. 
 

my guess is that we didn’t press as much because our CB’s just couldn’t get clean hits at the line on their receivers. I also think concern at safety probably was an issue, with Hamlin back there. The Niners and Chargers can afford to be more aggressive because they have elite safeties. 

[Beast]

4 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

It's great to be 11-3 and honestly if it were not for some really bad defensive mistakes this year,  we surely would be 12-2 or 13-1 at this point.

I stopped right there.

 

If not for some real bad offensive mistakes this team could be 14-0.

 

See how that goes?

 

This is a team game.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Beast

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

You won’t shut down a good offense, but at least show that you can impose your will at times. 

They did.  They forced PUNTs on the Dolphins offense in the 4th quarter and gave a chance for the offense to redeem itself.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

That’s our identity. That’s who we’ve been since McD and Frazier walked into the building and to their credit it’s worked every year.
 

I don’t think an extra LB solves our tackling problem last night. 

 

I wish the answer was as simple as put AJ Klein in for Taron Johnson and all problems are solved. He is a bigger body but really the Dolphins last night were not hitting us up the gut they were killing us with outside zone - the idea that Klein a linebacker who as we know is not the best moving laterally - solves that problem is for the birds IMO. Especially as the big Mostart run early it is actually the recovery pace of Johnson as a nickel that saved a touchdown. If that is Klein he doesn't have the speed to find a recovery angle. 

 

In previous years the Bills have had some issues against power run teams getting big bodies on our defenders and just phsyically dominating us. That isn't it this year. For the most part our guys are getting off the blocks. They are getting into positions to make tackles - they are just not executing. 

[RocCityRoller]

The defense was terrible for large stretches of the game, but they knuckled down and got stops in the 4th qtr when we needed them to.

 

3 pts allowed in the 4th quarter when it mattered.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Got what? That the D sucked yesterday? Great!

 

No question about that for 3 quarters that was a dreadful defensive performance.

 

You do equally have to give them some credit for playing their best in the clutch. After the strip sack of Josh it was absolutely critical that they held the Dolphins to a field goal, and they did. A Miami touchdown there and it is all but a wrap. So they did find some plays when needed. 

 

Overall I agree it was a bad day for the defense. Not just the run game. They blew the coverage on the Waddle touchdown and the two guys who you could argue have been the most consistent players on this D the past two years - Poyer and Milano - both had very rough outings. We got a little bit of pressure around Tua early but struggled to maintain that as the game went on. It was not a good day. 

 

But you have to look at the reasons why. And I think by far the biggest singular factor was lack of execution of our fundamentals. Bad tackling, loss of contain, and a big blown coverage. 

 

There are a lot of people who just stylistically don't like our defense. That is their prerogative. But I think they let that bleed into "the scheme sucks" whenever the defense underperforms (which has done just twice this year btw - yesterday and the Vikings game). They have kept every other offense to or below their season average.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No question about that for 3 quarters that was a dreadful defensive performance.

 

You do equally have to give them some credit for playing their best in the clutch. After the strip sack of Josh it was absolutely critical that they held the Dolphins to a field goal, and they did. A Miami touchdown there and it is all but a wrap. So they did find some plays when needed. 

 

Overall I agree it was a bad day for the defense. Not just the run game. They blew the coverage on the Waddle touchdown and the two guys who you could argue have been the most consistent players on this D the past two years - Poyer and Milano - both had very rough outings. We got a little bit of pressure around Tua early but struggled to maintain that as the game went on. It was not a good day. 

 

But you have to look at the reasons why. And I think by far the biggest singular factor was lack of execution of our fundamentals. Bad tackling, loss of contain, and a big blown coverage. 

 

There are a lot of people who just stylistically don't like our defense. That is their prerogative. But I think they let that bleed into "the scheme sucks" whenever the defense underperforms (which has done just twice this year btw - yesterday and the Vikings game). They have kept every other offense to or below their season average.

That was really the first game we didn’t look good on defense with most of our core players in there (Milano/edmunds/Hyde)

 

milano had a really tough night he was more than likely playing through an injury.  

[RocCityRoller]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Hyde being out is really showing up in how teams are able to move the ball in the air.

 

Hamlin has been OK to good in most games but he is still a liability in pass coverage. Usually pretty good against the run but not last night.

 

Some notes:

Hamlin had his worst game as a 'starting' pro as I saw it. Really bad in both phases, and I have been impressed with him in general.

 

I noticed that Miami had more success running the ball when Settle was in at 3T for Jones. When D Jones was in, the runs were mostly normal 0-10 yard fare.

 

Gap integrity and sealing edges was terrible all night.

 

Oliver was invisible. He got swallowed up all night.

 

T Johnson stepped up and had his best game of the season. In both aspects.

 

Dane Jackson is bad.

 

Elam played physical, and the refs allowed it. Can't expect that all the time. If he is a physical guy, put him close and jam the WR, or play off and let Elam and let his instincts/game study (which is said to be phenomenal) take over to tatoo guys or break up passes.

 

Poyer and Milano looked injured and slow. Bad angles all night.

 

White looked rusty. He was playing close to the LOS all night, which is fine but you have to make contact with a WR like Hill or Waddle if you are playing close to the LOS to jam/ slow down/ throw off timing. There is no way you can give Hill or Waddle a clean release and back peddle as quickly as Hill or Waddle will run forward. So play close and jam, or play back and not allow a big play. White played close, but refused to initiate contact. If he is uncomfortable making contact within 5 yards, you have to play him back. Simple Xs and Os.

 

Despite all of the this Bills defense made the big stops in the 4th and gave Allen a chance to once again carry the team.

Edited December 19, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

Those teams basically adapted Frazier’s week 3 gameplan to their personnel. The big differences for the 49ers was they had Bosa while Von was out for us, and they tackled well. The fish also changed up a bit and attacked the perimeter more this game. Unfortunately our guys lost a lot of one on ones and missed out on a few turnover opportunities. 
 

I am kind of curious if they made a poor equipment choice with regards to cleats for the first half as the line play of O & D improved once the snow started falling. 

[MPT]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

That’s our identity. That’s who we’ve been since McD and Frazier walked into the building and to their credit it’s worked every year.
 

I don’t think an extra LB solves our tackling problem last night. 

 

Have to push back on this. What's your definition of "worked" if the defense gets blown out in the playoffs two years in a row? Giving up 80 points to the same offense in two games is actually the opposite of "worked."

[RocCityRoller]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Those teams basically adapted Frazier’s week 3 gameplan to their personnel. The big differences for the 49ers was they had Bosa while Von was out for us, and they tackled well. The fish also changed up a bit and attacked the perimeter more this game. Unfortunately our guys lost a lot of one on ones and missed out on a few turnover opportunities. 
 

I am kind of curious if they made a poor equipment choice with regards to cleats for the first half as the line play of O & D improved once the snow started falling. 

It was CB play. I explained why above.

 

That and the front 6-7 gap integrity was terrible.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

You do equally have to give them some credit for playing their best in the clutch. After the strip sack of Josh it was absolutely critical that they held the Dolphins to a field goal, and they did. A Miami touchdown there and it is all but a wrap. So they did find some plays when needed. 

 

3  times in the 4th qrtr when Miami had 3rd and short plays, they chose to throw the ball in every single instance despite the fact that they were averaging 7.5 yds a carry.

I do not see that so much as the defense stepping up as I do the Phish perpetuating a year long propensity to repeatedly outsmart themselves in crunch time.

[Buffalo Junction]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

It was CB play. I explained why above.

 

That and the front 6-7 gap integrity was terrible.

I’ll read it in a bit. We posted at the same time. 😜 

[DrPJax]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Even with the Hyde/Von injuries, the defense has far too much talent & investment to have such poor performances against good offenses in big games.  
 

I don’t care that they can shut down the Jets or Patriots.. Cool, fantastic. 
 

You won’t shut down a good offense, but at least show that you can impose your will at times. 

I agree with your point about shutting down mediocre teams with mediocre Qb’s. However , you can’t just ignore the loss of an all pro safety like Hyde. He makes plays whereas now we are left with Hamlin. We made Tua , who had two prior terrible games, never had a good game in cold weather , look very good as we got torched on two long Tds and several other chunk passing plays. The miscommunication was never so obvious as when Poyer was caught looking at the possibility of run even with Edmunds calling it out and Hamlin was out of position after looking at the replay. Again , with Hyde that prob never happens. Hamlin continues to take poor pursuit angles as well.  He is talented , but he is not Hyde. He is still learning. 
 

Also it’s hard to just ignore the loss of Von, a Hof certainty , 2x SB winner, and our prior sack leading edge. He is not replaceable. Beane didn’t give him 120 mil because he was like Epenesa or Boogie , or Groot right at this moment. Tua was almost never under duress and stood back going thru his reads. He also escaped sacks as we have no edges with enough closing speed to make up for losing Von. He was brought in as a closer for the Chiefs , he had a def effect in that game , and we are now worse off without him. You can't just drop premiere talent and replace it with less experienced , rotating guys who were never  regular starters and expect the defense not to suffer. 29 points to a Tua led offense is proof , esp at home in the snow.
Jones and Settle have been good along with Oliver’s development so that helps offset losing von somewhat and helps against interior runs. But right now without Hyde , without Von, I think we are more vulnerable agaist Qb’s like Mahomes / Jalen Hurts unless Frazier adjusts his scheme and keeps bringing Milano , Edmunds , Johnson, Poyer against Mahomes and  the Chiefs , and considers an extra Lb like Klein against better rushing game plans.like the Pats use. 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, nosejob said:

And if we don't start playing D like we did against the Jets, we're done. Why we can't be an attacking defense is beyond me. We need a new DC with an aggressive attitude. It's absolutely aggravating. We don't have the talent to play press against Hill and Waddle?....or have the ability to do that when need be? Why can't we send blitzes when we're stuffing the run game on passing downs? We need some new blood on  the Defensive staff. Josh Allen can't be  like P.Manning with no Defense. We're gonna get screwed with this 1990 Defensive approach.

Do people not watch the games?  Lol we blitzed on nearly half the snaps.  Completely different gameplan than the first meeting. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Buffalo Junction]

7 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Some notes:

Hamlin had his worst game as a 'starting' pro as I saw it. Really bad in both phases, and I have been impressed with him in general.

 

I noticed that Miami had more success running the ball when Settle was in at 3T for Jones. When D Jones was in, the runs were mostly normal 0-10 yard fare.

 

Gap integrity and sealing edges was terrible all night.

 

Oliver was invisible. He got swallowed up all night.

 

T Johnson stepped up and had his best game of the season. In both aspects.

 

Dane Jackson is bad.

 

Elam played physical, and the refs allowed it. Can't expect that all the time. If he is a physical guy, put him close and jam the WR, or play off and let Elam and let his instincts/game study (which is said to be phenomenal) take over to tatoo guys or break up passes.

 

Poyer and Milano looked injured and slow. Bad angles all night.

 

White looked rusty. He was playing close to the LOS all night, which is fine but you have to make contact with a WR like Hill or Waddle if you are playing close to the LOS to jam/ slow down/ throw off timing. There is no way you can give Hill or Waddle a clean release and back peddle as quickly as Hill or Waddle will run forward. So play close and jam, or play back and not allow a big play. White played close, but refused to initiate contact. If he is uncomfortable making contact within 5 yards, you have to play him back. Simple Xs and Os.

 

Despite all of the this Bills defense made the big stops in the 4th and gave Allen a chance to once again carry the team.

Agree with most of this. I do wonder about the footing, especially with the first few drives. It seemed like the second and third level defenders played tentative when tackling; choosing to breakdown instead of tackle through ball carriers which allowed Mostert to run through arm tackles. They changed up in the second half and started hitting him low which was more effective. I even commented to a buddy during the game “Damn, it’s like he’s got Vaseline on his jersey.” During the first quarter. 
 

One thing worth considering is that they played pass first through the first half, and had the offense been able to double dip they may not have been forced out of that. Being able to stay in nickel and run 2-deep, quarters, etc without worrying about the run would have been nice. At the end of the day this team was missing two all-pros and a Phin assassin (Phillips) and came out with the win. IDK how the win happens as long as they don’t lose anyone else. 

[Toledo Bill]

27 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Some notes:

Hamlin had his worst game as a 'starting' pro as I saw it. Really bad in both phases, and I have been impressed with him in general.

 

I noticed that Miami had more success running the ball when Settle was in at 3T for Jones. When D Jones was in, the runs were mostly normal 0-10 yard fare.

 

Gap integrity and sealing edges was terrible all night.

 

Oliver was invisible. He got swallowed up all night.

 

T Johnson stepped up and had his best game of the season. In both aspects.

 

Dane Jackson is bad.

 

Elam played physical, and the refs allowed it. Can't expect that all the time. If he is a physical guy, put him close and jam the WR, or play off and let Elam and let his instincts/game study (which is said to be phenomenal) take over to tatoo guys or break up passes.

 

Poyer and Milano looked injured and slow. Bad angles all night.

 

White looked rusty. He was playing close to the LOS all night, which is fine but you have to make contact with a WR like Hill or Waddle if you are playing close to the LOS to jam/ slow down/ throw off timing. There is no way you can give Hill or Waddle a clean release and back peddle as quickly as Hill or Waddle will run forward. So play close and jam, or play back and not allow a big play. White played close, but refused to initiate contact. If he is uncomfortable making contact within 5 yards, you have to play him back. Simple Xs and Os.

 

Despite all of the this Bills defense made the big stops in the 4th and gave Allen a chance to once again carry the team.

Oliver was very disappointing. Don’t know what his issue is. 

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

3 straight times in the 4th qrtr when Miami had 3rd and short plays, they chose to throw the ball in every single instance despite the fact that they were averaging 7.5 yds a carry.

I do not see that so much as the defense stepping up as I do the Phish perpetuating a year long propensity to repeatedly outsmart themselves in crunch time.

 

Fair. Albeit the Fish's success on the ground was not really of the bang it up the middle variety. It was mainly outside zone. And third and shorts I can understand not wanting to call plays that have your runner going horizontal to the line of scrimmage for too long. But you are right that to not try a run in any of those scenarios given their success was probably foolhardy. But the Bills can only defend the plays called.

[RocCityRoller]

10 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

3 straight times in the 4th qrtr when Miami had 3rd and short plays, they chose to throw the ball in every single instance despite the fact that they were averaging 7.5 yds a carry.

I do not see that so much as the defense stepping up as I do the Phish perpetuating a year long propensity to repeatedly outsmart themselves in crunch time.

 

So Miami had 3 drives in the 4th that I recall. Punt, FG, Punt. The FG was on a short field after the terrible fumble.

 

1st drive in the 4th (Punt). 3rd and 3 Taron Johnson (who I mentioned as having his best game of the season) defended a pass to Hill. Miami could have run, but let's give credit to Johnson who has had a shaky year. He had an excellent PD on one of those quick hitters Mahomes to Hill killed teams with. (see 0:13 seconds). McDaniels dialed up the 'Andy Reid special' and it failed. Good play by Johnson to diagnose it and stop it. To me that is better defense than a bad call by Miami.

 

2nd drive (FG) - 3rd and 1. Pass to a RB Smythe and T Johnson once again made the play. Agreed with you, dumb decision by Miami. Credit to T Johnson again for making the play.

 

3rd drive (Punt)- After giving up a big play Rousseau had a tackle after 1 yard gain. 2nd play Elam sniffed out a quick pass to Hill -3 yards. Good play rookie!  3rd and 12 is a passing play. It was incomplete to Waddle. (plus a declined penalty).

 

So 2out of 3 could have been runs, agreed. But 3rd and 12, late in the game, is no running situation.

 

Miami clearly wanted to pick on Taron Johnson and failed. Johnson stepped up, as I mentioned, and made big play after big play late in the game.

 

That's how I see it.

 

[billsbackto81]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it hasn't. 

I usually find your posts on point but I'd like to know why you find him one of the best in the league. Lately his in game adjustments just haven't been there.

[Saint Doug]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Firing Frazier would be a serious error.

Agree. Firing would nullify the draft pick we would otherwise get from having him hired while a Bills employee. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Saint Doug

[GunnerBill]

Just now, billsbackto81 said:

I usually find your posts on point but I'd like to know why you find him one of the best in the league. Lately his in game adjustments just haven't been there.

 

Firstly, his results prove it. You might luck into a top 5 defense once. You don't luck into them multiple times. Secondly, I don't really agree on adjustments. Thirdly, he has been shuffling his best players in and out all year - Hyde, Poyer, Edmunds, Von, White, Oliver, Milano - and they have kep 10 of 14 opponents below their season average in points. 2 at their season average. And only 2 have gone above their season average.

[Buffalo Ballin]

We have one of the best coaching staff in the league.

 

- McDermott, Frazier, and Company turned this franchise around to become a damn good one.

- We clinched another playoff berth.

- We're 11-3. We're about to be 12-3.

- We're number one in AFC.

- We just won 5 games in a row in hard fought battles.

 

Yes, we have deficiencies. However, all teams have weaknesses.

McDermott, Frazier, and Company not going anywhere. Frazier is leaving ONLY because he's offered a head coach position for another NFL team.

[RocCityRoller]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Agree with most of this. I do wonder about the footing, especially with the first few drives. It seemed like the second and third level defenders played tentative when tackling; choosing to breakdown instead of tackle through ball carriers which allowed Mostert to run through arm tackles. They changed up in the second half and started hitting him low which was more effective. I even commented to a buddy during the game “Damn, it’s like he’s got Vaseline on his jersey.” During the first quarter. 
 

One thing worth considering is that they played pass first through the first half, and had the offense been able to double dip they may not have been forced out of that. Being able to stay in nickel and run 2-deep, quarters, etc without worrying about the run would have been nice. At the end of the day this team was missing two all-pros and a Phin assassin (Phillips) and came out with the win. IDK how the win happens as long as they don’t lose anyone else. 

 

Agree with a  bunch of this. But White is coming off an ACL, Milano is hurt and so is Poyer. Those are 3 of the better playmakers left in the back 7. I'm sure footing and injuries contributed to it. White was playing close, but not jamming. Milano took some very bad angles all night. Poyer and Hamlin were out of position all game compared to what Miami wanted to do. Credit to Miami. They regularly got our Safeties out of position and got big gains for it. Rare against a McDermott/ Frazier defense.

 

To me the front 4 looked very bad in the first half. There was a significant drop off with Settle in for Jones. Lawson and Rousseau, who usually contain edges well or crash the middle looked really bad. Oliver was Missing in Action (MIA?!?)

 

Taron Johnson had a monster game, as did D Jones. Edmunds was Edmunds. Made a few good tackles and was out of position/ swallowed up on others. Elam had some plays that could have been nullified by officials.

 

Survive and play on!

[balln]

i dont understand in a thread that is expressing concern - the answer is to just be happy with what we have relative to drought bills.

 

sorry no. we want a super bowl.

 

historically. they play crazy good against backup and bad QBs . They are a prevent / bend but dont break / passive / confuse the QB type D.

 

I just dont think its the way to go with a QB like allen. He and the O have proven that they can score at will / and are often best in hurry up or gotta have it situations. 

 

Our D should BE uber aggressive/ attack / attack /attack. 1) because it wont let teams run the clock (which is #1 way to nullify allen ) and 2) even in the worst case scenario the D gets beat. youre banking on allen bailing you out more often than not

 

Instead we have the opposite philosophy. Buts its the chicken / egg argument. Mcd and leslie were here first. Not allen. They are going to run what got them to become HCs. They should look in the mirror and see maybe they are wrong and need to change NOW that they have allen. 

 

I said it earlier this season. This roster and team is super bowl caliber. hottest seat/ longest night is McD. He has to win. In the ultra competitive business of professional sports IMO - He has this year / maybe next to win it. If not and the D still comes up short and messes up Allen (this indirectly happens w all the draft capital they waste on the wrong D players) pegs needs to make a change. he wont though. just "happy" to be relevant. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by balln

[Bubba Gump]

Frazier is not gonna make adjustments. He never has and never will. It's gonna bite him in the ass and cost this team a SB. He will never be a HC again. His defensive schemes  are a joke. You can stop 3rd and 1, but give up 15 yard runs every 1st down? Frazier is garbage. Mever seen a team that can't tackle like the Bills.

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

So Miami had 3 drives in the 4th that I recall. Punt, FG, Punt. The FG was on a short field after the terrible fumble.

 

1st drive in the 4th (Punt). 3rd and 3 Taron Johnson (who I mentioned as having his best game of the season) defended a pass to Hill. Miami could have run, but let's give credit to Johnson who has had a shaky year. He had an excellent PD on one of those quick hitters Mahomes to Hill killed teams with. (see 0:13 seconds). McDaniels dialed up the 'Andy Reid special' and it failed. Good play by Johnson to diagnose it and stop it. To me that is better defense than a bad call by Miami.

 

2nd drive (FG) - 3rd and 1. Pass to a RB Smythe and T Johnson once again made the play. Agreed with you, dumb decision by Miami. Credit to T Johnson again for making the play.

 

3rd drive (Punt)- After giving up a big play Rousseau had a tackle after 1 yard gain. 2nd play Elam sniffed out a quick pass to Hill -3 yards. Good play rookie!  3rd and 12 is a passing play. It was incomplete to Waddle. (plus a declined penalty).

 

So 2out of 3 could have been runs, agreed. But 3rd and 12, late in the game, is no running situation.

 

Miami clearly wanted to pick on Taron Johnson and failed. Johnson stepped up, as I mentioned, and made big play after big play late in the game.

 

That's how I see it.

 

 

My bad; one of those three 3rd/short passes actually happened in the 3rd qrtr, not the 4th.

It was the only possession in the 3rd qrtr that the Phish didn't score a TD.

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

5 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

49ers and Chargers showed how to stop the Dolphins offense. But nope. Frasier sticks with nickel. Either he's stupid or stubborn.

Who do you put on the field then? Best 11 has always been the philosophy. You take Taron Johnson out and go with AJ Klein, and watch him get devoured by slot receivers and tight ends. Tyrell Dodson? Please. Whoever the scrub they drafted this year who should be cut? No thank you. 
 

I’ve voiced my issues with Taron Johnson before, but he is FAR AND AWAY a better defender that AJ Klein, and is a perfect fit for this scheme. 

[RocCityRoller]

41 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

I agree with your point about shutting down mediocre teams with mediocre Qb’s. However , you can’t just ignore the loss of an all pro safety like Hyde. He makes plays whereas now we are left with Hamlin. We made Tua , who had two prior terrible games, never had a good game in cold weather , look very good as we got torched on two long Tds and several other chunk passing plays. The miscommunication was never so obvious as when Poyer was caught looking at the possibility of run even with Edmunds calling it out and Hamlin was out of position after looking at the replay. Again , with Hyde that prob never happens. Hamlin continues to take poor pursuit angles as well.  He is talented , but he is not Hyde. He is still learning. 
 

Also it’s hard to just ignore the loss of Von, a Hof certainty , 2x SB winner, and our prior sack leading edge. He is not replaceable. Beane didn’t give him 120 mil because he was like Epenesa or Boogie , or Groot right at this moment. Tua was almost never under duress and stood back going thru his reads. He also escaped sacks as we have no edges with enough closing speed to make up for losing Von. He was brought in as a closer for the Chiefs , he had a def effect in that game , and we are now worse off without him. You can't just drop premiere talent and replace it with less experienced , rotating guys who were never  regular starters and expect the defense not to suffer. 29 points to a Tua led offense is proof , esp at home in the snow.
Jones and Settle have been good along with Oliver’s development so that helps offset losing von somewhat and helps against interior runs. But right now without Hyde , without Von, I think we are more vulnerable agaist Qb’s like Mahomes / Jalen Hurts unless Frazier adjusts his scheme and keeps bringing Milano , Edmunds , Johnson, Poyer against Mahomes and  the Chiefs , and considers an extra Lb like Klein against better rushing game plans.like the Pats use.

 

Great Post!!! Agree with you 100%

 

I think Poyer is the more physical/ capable of the two S, but Hyde is the better communicator, reactor. His skill set has been missed. Also agree Hamlin has been solid stepping in for an All Pro. Hamlin and Poyer were out of position compared to what Miami was doing all night. Was it defensive calls? Was it communication? Was it injuries and the elements?

 

The only reason the loss of Hyde has not been devastating was because of Hamlin. He can play defense as designed, but does not diagnose as quickly as Hyde, and doesn't react as quickly as Poyer. It should come with time.

 

Front seven..... so much invested. Oliver and Rousseau flash at times.. Basham and Epenessa make plays once in a while, but you have to get better steady contributors from 2nd rounders. The reason people are down on Edmunds is he has never played like #16 overall. If we got Edmunds in the 3rd or 4th we would all be pretty happy with him.

[balln]

3 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Frazier is not gonna make adjustments. He never has and never will. It's gonna bite him in the ass and cost this team a SB. He will never be a HC again. His defensive schemes  are a joke. You can stop 3rd and 1, but give up 15 yard runs every 1st down? Frazier is garbage. Mever seen a team that can't tackle like the Bills.

issue with tackling is just inferior athletes. the bills coaches / specifically D is who they draft / sign to run the D they want. basham and AJE are just not everydown DE in the NFL. i dont even know what basham is. Hes too slow to be a DE and hes not big or stout enough to be a DT. horrible pick. 

 

just need to draft BPA it really is that simple. How we have not  drafted ANY guards or C since wyat teller (cody ford was drafted to be RT folks). Thats 3 positions. in what 4 -5 years ? just wyatt teller! thats crazy

[Buffalo Junction]

15 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Agree with a  bunch of this. But White is coming off an ACL, Milano is hurt and so is Poyer. Those are 3 of the better playmakers left in the back 7. I'm sure footing and injuries contributed to it. White was playing close, but not jamming. Milano took some very bad angles all night. Poyer and Hamlin were out of position all game compared to what Miami wanted to do. Credit to Miami. They regularly got our Safeties out of position and got big gains for it. Rare against a McDermott/ Frazier defense.

 

To me the front 4 looked very bad in the first half. There was a significant drop off with Settle in for Jones. Lawson and Rousseau, who usually contain edges well or crash the middle looked really bad. Oliver was Missing in Action (MIA?!?)

 

Taron Johnson had a monster game, as did D Jones. Edmunds was Edmunds. Made a few good tackles and was out of position/ swallowed up on others. Elam had some plays that could have been nullified by officials.

 

Survive and play on!

Miami seemed to Buck some tendencies early in the game which put Poyer off. Hamlin just flat out isn’t Hyde and we’re a bit spoiled by prior expectations…. Still, Hamlin has to play better down the stretch. He got caught on angles against Miami in the first matchup too. They exploited that again. 
 

I honestly think a lot of the trench play may be due to cleat choices. Mainly because those problems seemed to disappear once the snow started falling. It was odd. Snow hits and Groot starts making plays. Not the be all end all, but it makes me a bit curious. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have been very vocal about my displeasure with Fraizer. I feel like our talent on defense far exceeds our performance. I can’t stand the way Fraizer calls a defense and I hope that he gets a HC job. The constant refusal to come out of nickel regardless of situation is as frustrating as it is dumb. The fact that our LBs can run and cover as a strength is even more of a reason to play a 3rd LB. Of all the teams in the NFL that can cover a guy without a NB, we are at the top. That stubbornness is why we can’t stop the run and that’s why physical teams make us pay. The Bears are going to pound the ball down our throats. This is not the time to mess around. The Bills better put Klein on the field and take our chances with a conventional base defense. We should be able to beat the Bears but if you let them run it on you, they can steal one.

[RocCityRoller]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

My bad; one of those three 3rd/short passes actually happened in the 3rd qrtr, not the 4th.

It was the only possession in the 3rd qrtr that the Phish didn't score a TD.

 

I think we largely saw the same things. I just wanted to call out Taron Johnson's terrific 4th quarter. He stepped up on a night when a lot of defense was really bad, and the clear 3rd and long.

 

The 3rd and 3? You and I would have run the ball. How long has it been since 3rd and 3 was a running down? Craziness.

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have been very vocal about my displeasure with Fraizer. I feel like our talent on defense far exceeds our performance. I can’t stand the way Fraizer calls a defense and I hope that he gets a HC job. The constant refusal to come out of nickel regardless of situation is as frustrating as it is dumb. The fact that our LBs can run and cover as a strength is even more of a reason to play a 3rd LB. Of all the teams in the NFL that can cover a guy without a NB, we are at the top. That stubbornness is why we can’t stop the run and that’s why physical teams make us pay. The Bears are going to pound the ball down our throats. This is not the time to mess around. The Bills better put Klein on the field and take our chances with a conventional base defense. We should be able to beat the Bears but if you let them run it on you, they can steal one.

yea but theyll rationalize that taron is faster than klein and rather have him to chase after fields. their whole offense is fields running

Edited December 19, 2022 by balln

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 minutes ago, balln said:

yea but theyll rationalize that taron is faster than klein and rather have him to chase after fields. their whole offense is fields running

I’d rather not have the offense use motion and shifting to create a situation where Taron Johnson becomes the MLB and an olineman is blowing him up on the 2nd level for gash runs. If Miami never stopped running on their own we would have lost that game last night 

[In Summary]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Firing Frazier would be a serious error. He is one of the best DCs in football.

Additionally, McDermott isn't powerless to influence the defense either in-game or in general scheme/philosophy. I can't dump on Frazier other that to say it was a bad night for run D. We'll never know, but hopefully there was some kind of old school ass chewing at halftime. 

[RocCityRoller]

6 minutes ago, balln said:

issue with tackling is just inferior athletes. the bills coaches / specifically D is who they draft / sign to run the D they want. basham and AJE are just not everydown DE in the NFL. i dont even know what basham is. Hes too slow to be a DE and hes not big or stout enough to be a DT. horrible pick. 

 

just need to draft BPA it really is that simple. How we have not  drafted ANY guards or C since wyat teller (cody ford was drafted to be RT folks). Thats 3 positions. in what 4 -5 years ? just wyatt teller! thats crazy

 

I personally like Boogie. His big play % of snaps played is generally high. But he just hasn't transformed into an every down player.

The fact they passed on Creed Humphries, a generational Center for him (and KC got him) makes me apoplectic.

 

I am positive I have draft day posts about Creed Humphries.

 

Beene does a lot right, but OL/DL drafting is spotty at best. That will hurt against a team like the Eagles who can do no wrong there.

[balln]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I’d rather not have the offense use motion and shifting to create a situation where Taron Johnson becomes the MLB and an olineman is blowing him up on the 2nd level for gash runs. If Miami never stopped running on their own we would have lost that game last night 

for sure. Im screaming at the TV after the very first drive. ADJUST leslie. cuz i knew this wasnt gonna work. its not just personal its alignment. they need to get 5 guys on the Line / get LBs up. 

 

its this whole "dare team" to run concept - KC game at buff. thats fine if they dont beat you over the top or have big pass plays. but whoof. waddle and cheetah roasted them for tds. 

[BBills_88]

Our lack of tackling is the biggest liability on defense. 

 

I expect other teams to make plays, they are pro's too.

 

But the tackling 🤮🤮

 

[balln]

1 minute ago, BBills_88 said:

Our lack of tackling is the biggest liability on defense. 

 

I expect other teams to make plays, they are pro's too.

 

But the tackling 🤮🤮

 

that AJE play was egregious. dont know if twitter had looked at it. seemed like he really didnt see the field after that