Gabe Davis - Getting a Bum Rap From Some Fans

[ToGoGo]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I repeat my question:  is your concern about the negative effect of fan criticism unique to Davis, or does it extend to other players who have become fan "whipping boys" after a few notable gaffs?  Isaiah McKenzie is the current favorite "whipping boy" on this board, for example.

 

I answered your question in one of my paragraphs. 

[John from Riverside]

I’m the first person to defend bills here I really am

 

The problem is we really want him to be like a 1a wide receiver and while he has had some great games, I don’t feel like he’s gotten there yet that’s not to say that he won’t get there he needs to continue to work

[Joe Ferguson]

Gabe Davis only has 3 routes in his repertoire. And all the NFL teams know what they are.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m the first person to defend bills here I really am

 

The problem is we really want him to be like a 1a wide receiver and while he has had some great games, I don’t feel like he’s gotten there yet that’s not to say that he won’t get there he needs to continue to work

It’s frustrating because he has all the physical tools he’s just not making the plays

[Shake_My_Head]

His ankle is not right, IMO.   He's not getting any separation, which is very uncharacteristic and allowing teams to shade more coverage Diggs way.    I suspect he'll need surgery in the off season.   

 

[yall]

7 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Gabe Davis only has 3 routes in his repertoire. And all the NFL teams know what they are.

Sketchy hands too. Not exactly a great combination. 

 

The criticism is warranted.

[78thealltimegreat]

Just drops to many passes to be a consistent number 2 in the league.

Prior to Josh making him look like Jerry Rice against the Chiefs.

He was number 4 on the depth chart for several reasons. 

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Gabe Davis only has 3 routes in his repertoire. And all the NFL teams know what they are.

No, what is frustrating is that he’s not catching the ball for the game changing plays

 

he literally could’ve won a game for us that we lost this year

 

 

having him on the hands team on and on sides drill is puzzling

[TheWeatherMan]

In the beginning of the seasons everyone was excited to see how Gabe followed up his 4TD performance against the Chiefs in the playoffs.  All the buzz about a WR being the #1 pick quickly faded, the thought of adding OBJ was considered nonsense.  11 games into the season, it’s apparent that maybe we were all wrong about Gabe being a high end #2.  I’m extremely hopeful we can sign OBJ and that he’s somewhat in the same form he was prior to his ACL injury.
 

I’m still confused as to why Knox is rarely targeted even though Gabe is struggling and our slot WRs have been underwhelming.  

Edited November 26, 2022 by TheWeatherMan

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:57 AM, jwhit34 said:

Going into the season, a lot of the buzz about the offense was about Gabe Davis "taking the next step" and becoming a big time WR2. Now, a significant portion of fans say he is a disappointment. 

 

I think a fair expectation going into the season to be considered a top end WR2 would be a season with 60-70 receptions, 900-1,000 yards and 7-9 TDs. 

 

Davis missed 1 game due to injury, so in the 10 games he has played he now has 33 receptions, 650 yards and 5 TDs. How does that compare to expectations?

• He ranks #22 in receiving yards per game, and the only WR2s ahead of him are Waddle and Higgins.
• Only 10 WRs have more TDs
• At 65 yards per game, that extrapolates out to 1,105 over 17 games. If he averages 65/game the rest of the year, it would be 1,040 in 16 games.
• He has 5 TDs in 10 games played so if he keeps up that pace he will have 8 TDs.
• The receptions are lighter, he would end at 53 at 3.3/game

 

Yes, the drops are not good, but if you were asked before the beginning of the season would you take a 53-1,040-8 stat line for Davis this year? I am guessing almost everyone would, especially if you said Diggs was going to also have the year he's having. 

 

I have thought for a long time a lot of Bills fans overvalued Don Beebe, whose career highs with the Bills were 40 catches ('94) and 554 yards ('92). Davis is moving into undervalued territory.

I don’t know what his drop rate is today, but a week or two ago he was dropping 17% of his catchable balls on the season and was third in league in total drops, with a catch rate of 54% for his career.  
 

I don’t think he was getting a bum rap, his drops cost us drives in games we lost.  He also dropped a critical pass on the late drive in the Vikes game the refs missed and Josh quickly snapped the ball to cover up.  
 

I was very high on Gabe all off season, I’m still optimistic about him.  But I don’t think it’s a “bum rap” when you’re a professional starting WE and dropping 17% of your passes with a career history of low catch rate.  
 

He has also made plenty of good plays, he’s not a lost cause or a disaster.  But the concerns have been warranted.  
 

He also has struggled to win his routes and most often makes catches after breaking off routes to bail Josh out because no one was initially open.  
 

As usual, season total stats don’t begin to paint the whole picture 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don’t know what his drop rate is today, but a week or two ago he was dropping 17% of his catchable balls on the season and was third in league in total drops, with a catch rate of 54% for his career.  
 

I don’t think he was getting a bum rap, his drops cost us drives in games we lost.  He also dropped a critical pass on the late drive in the Vikes game the refs missed and Josh quickly snapped the ball to cover up.  
 

I was very high on Gabe all off season, I’m still optimistic about him.  But I don’t think it’s a “bum rap” when you’re a professional starting WE and dropping 17% of your passes with a career history of low catch rate.  
 

He has also made plenty of good plays, he’s not a lost cause or a disaster.  But the concerns have been warranted.  
 

He also has struggled to win his routes and most often makes catches after breaking off routes to bail Josh out because no one was initially open.  
 

As usual, season total stats don’t begin to paint the whole picture 

Pro football reference says 10%. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

23 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

Gabe Davis is fine, is it frustrating when he drops balls on critical moments that would win games (MiIA, NYJ? Yup.

 

He will get a bum rap for it, can't help it. Though I fully agree it would be difficult to get an upgrade on that position  

he had a crucial drop in the last possession in the Jax loss last year.

 

The "contested catch" against Pitt this year was a perfect pass by Allen that hit Davis in stride, in his left hand.  He made that catch contested, when it didn't need to be.

[Alphadawg7]

52 minutes ago, Doc said:

Pro football reference says 10%. 

Thanks, figured it went down some as I don’t think he had but one drop in last 2 games.  It was at 17% heading into the Browns game.  

[Buffalo716]

23 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Gabe Davis only has 3 routes in his repertoire. And all the NFL teams know what they are.

Patrick Peterson says something tongue-in-cheek and now everybody thinks he actually runs 3 routes 

 

Is he a route technician? no

 

But he ran a hitch, A come back, out route , 9 route and post … And i didn’t watch every route he ran throughout the year but he has ran those 

 

That’s more than three last time I counted… What Peterson means is he runs three routes well… The rest leave a lot to be desired

Edited November 27, 2022 by Buffalo716

[RyanC883]

On 11/25/2022 at 9:57 AM, jwhit34 said:

Going into the season, a lot of the buzz about the offense was about Gabe Davis "taking the next step" and becoming a big time WR2. Now, a significant portion of fans say he is a disappointment. 

 

I think a fair expectation going into the season to be considered a top end WR2 would be a season with 60-70 receptions, 900-1,000 yards and 7-9 TDs. 

 

Davis missed 1 game due to injury, so in the 10 games he has played he now has 33 receptions, 650 yards and 5 TDs. How does that compare to expectations?

• He ranks #22 in receiving yards per game, and the only WR2s ahead of him are Waddle and Higgins.
• Only 10 WRs have more TDs
• At 65 yards per game, that extrapolates out to 1,105 over 17 games. If he averages 65/game the rest of the year, it would be 1,040 in 16 games.
• He has 5 TDs in 10 games played so if he keeps up that pace he will have 8 TDs.
• The receptions are lighter, he would end at 53 at 3.3/game

 

Yes, the drops are not good, but if you were asked before the beginning of the season would you take a 53-1,040-8 stat line for Davis this year? I am guessing almost everyone would, especially if you said Diggs was going to also have the year he's having. 

 

I have thought for a long time a lot of Bills fans overvalued Don Beebe, whose career highs with the Bills were 40 catches ('94) and 554 yards ('92). Davis is moving into undervalued territory.

 

Beebe was a no 3 WR. That’s what Davis should be. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by RyanC883

[RyanC883]

22 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

He will disappear for large amounts of time and when he does show himself, he's not making the catches he should be.

 

Besides the drops, he's just not getting open either.

 

He makes the big plays here and there, but I'll take the consistency of a Beasley-type receiver over the drop prone, sometimes big play guy any day.

 

The lack of that Beasley-type WR is what this offense is missing.

 

I thought Shakir was going to get a chance to be that guy, but the coaches don't want to play him much.

 

the coaches are nuts to not play Shakir more. 

On 11/25/2022 at 11:18 AM, FilthyBeast said:

 

Nobody is questioning his talent and ability, he's just wildly inconsistent which has what has plagued this offense this year in general with just about everyone outside of JA17 and Diggs.

 

If he can follow Knox's trajectory and truly move past the drops and inconsistency he'd be one of the more dangerous weapons in this league but until then you have to hold your breath every time the ball is thrown his way.

 

Knox has caught every target the last 2 games at least.  he needs to be used more but needs to block for the deficient OL 

[RoscoeParrish]

 

[Joe Ferguson]

If butterfingers Gabe Davis keeps dropping balls, John Brown will be signed to the active roster. Hopefully butterfingers Gabe Davis goes to the PS.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

If butterfingers Gabe Davis keeps dropping balls, John Brown will be signed to the active roster. Hopefully butterfingers Gabe Davis goes to the PS.

He wouldn’t last 5 minutes on the waiver wire … he hasn’t lived up to expectations but calling him a PSr is asinine 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Scott7975]

23 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Gabe Davis only has 3 routes in his repertoire. And all the NFL teams know what they are.

 

  

 

Dont know what his other weeks look like because these are the only 2 charts next gen did for him this year but it doesnt get much more basic. Of course these are only his routes on his targets.  I have no idea what he ran when he didnt get a target.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Scott7975

[The Red King]

Yes, he can make good plays, great plays, amazing plays.  When he's good, he's very, very good.  The problem is, when he's bad, he's terrible.  His big plays are offset by his horrific mistakes.  10% drop rate will kill you (as it has the Bills in a couple losses this year).  I mean, he even bobbled an onside kick that could have been a disaster had a teammate not knocked it out of bounds.

 

Consistency.

 

Let me say it again...

 

Consistency.

 

This is the problem.  This is why he's getting a "bad rap".  Plain and simple.  Works for a WR3, but too unreliable for a WR2.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Yes, he can make good plays, great plays, amazing plays.  When he's good, he's very, very good.  The problem is, when he's bad, he's terrible.  His big plays are offset by his horrific mistakes.  10% drop rate will kill you (as it has the Bills in a couple losses this year).  I mean, he even bobbled an onside kick that could have been a disaster had a teammate not knocked it out of bounds.

 

Consistency.

 

Let me say it again...

 

Consistency.

 

This is the problem.  This is why he's getting a "bad rap".  Plain and simple.  Works for a WR3, but too unreliable for a WR2.

And we are coming up on a decision of whether or not we’re going to pay him big money at all factors in

[Nelius]

Gabe is a talented player that should have a spot on this offense, he's just not a top tier consistent #2. Both of these things can be true. We have the best QB in the NFL, you can't settle for the 9th best #2 that disappears for games at a time. The Hill-Waddle, Chase-Higgins offense is a reality. If Gabe can't be that top flight #2 next to our very clear, legendary #1, then I hope the Bills find somebody who can be next season. 

 

To this team's credit I think they tried. It's not just Gabe that's been a bit disappointing, it's more so the Gabe-Knox-Crowder trifecta that's been really disappointing. I think everybody thought one or two of them would take the leap. It just really hasn't happened yet, so you've got to load up again next year however you can with a QB like Allen.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, The Red King said:

Yes, he can make good plays, great plays, amazing plays.  When he's good, he's very, very good.  The problem is, when he's bad, he's terrible.  His big plays are offset by his horrific mistakes.  10% drop rate will kill you (as it has the Bills in a couple losses this year).  I mean, he even bobbled an onside kick that could have been a disaster had a teammate not knocked it out of bounds.

 

Consistency.

 

Let me say it again...

 

Consistency.

 

This is the problem.  This is why he's getting a "bad rap".  Plain and simple.  Works for a WR3, but too unreliable for a WR2.

 

7 hours ago, Nelius said:

Gabe is a talented player that should have a spot on this offense, he's just not a top tier consistent #2. Both of these things can be true. We have the best QB in the NFL, you can't settle for the 9th best #2 that disappears for games at a time. The Hill-Waddle, Chase-Higgins offense is a reality. If Gabe can't be that top flight #2 next to our very clear, legendary #1, then I hope the Bills find somebody who can be next season. 

 

To this team's credit I think they tried. It's not just Gabe that's been a bit disappointing, it's more so the Gabe-Knox-Crowder trifecta that's been really disappointing. I think everybody thought one or two of them would take the leap. It just really hasn't happened yet, so you've got to load up again next year however you can with a QB like Allen.

 

This is getting out of hand.

 

Gabe is 18th in total yards, 2nd in YPC.  Of his 33 catches, 25 were 1st downs, 5 were TDs.  

 

He'll get better with more targets. In the past 3 games he's had 22 targets and his catch % is 68.

[The Red King]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This is getting out of hand.

 

Gabe is 18th in total yards, 2nd in YPC.  Of his 33 catches, 25 were 1st downs, 5 were TDs.  

 

He'll get better with more targets. In the past 3 games he's had 22 targets and his catch % is 68.

 

And he is what in total drops?  And how bad did those drops hurt us?  Lack of consistency.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

And he is what in total drops?  And how bad did those drops hurt us?  Lack of consistency.

 

He has 6, tied for most with Higbee and Kelce.

 

Look, we all get that his drops are up this year.  Throw him more balls and he'll get even better.  He's consistently improving.  His numbers are solid #2 WR.  

[The Red King]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

He has 6, tied for most with Higbee and Kelce.

 

Look, we all get that his drops are up this year.  Throw him more balls and he'll get even better.  He's consistently improving.  His numbers are solid #2 WR.  

 

I'm more supportive of Gabe then a number of people on this thread.  My point is merely this.  The OP suggests the flak he's getting is over-exaggerated and unwarranted.  I disagree, and used his drop percentage as one argument against that assertion.  When he's good, he's amazing.  But when he's bad it hurts this team badly.  He has potential, but until he stops making those key mistakes people are going to be justified in critiquing him.

[blacklabel]

The expectations some people put on the team this season were astronomical and largely unattainable. 

 

Gabe is doing...alright. I think the ankle slowed him down more than he'd admit. Hopefully it's all good now. It's a bummer to see him drop a catchable ball once a game, but he's still a young player working his way into a bigger role with the offense. 

 

Stats and numbers are only one part of the equation, of course. We have no idea how many times plays have been dialed up for him or whatever. 

 

They're still figuring things out on offense as a whole. First year OC with Dorsey, a new OL coach with an OL that has had to constantly shuffle players due to injury. A third year player (Gabe) trying to take that next step. Dawson Knox's involvement has faded a bit because he's the best all around TE on the roster and has been asked to do a lot more than run routes and catch the ball. Throw in an inconsistent run game (which feels like it's working itself out) and a boatload of injuries and yeah, there are gonna be some bumps in the road. 

 

8-3, though. And the losses only came after they shot themselves in the foot and didn't execute like they know they can. But this team is slogging through some hard times and quite honestly it's a bit of a bummer to see so many folks doggin' them for it. What'd you expect? 20-0 with every win by at least 30? 

 

Hopefully it all comes together down the stretch here. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

I'm more supportive of Gabe then a number of people on this thread.  My point is merely this.  The OP suggests the flak he's getting is over-exaggerated and unwarranted.  I disagree, and used his drop percentage as one argument against that assertion.  When he's good, he's amazing.  But when he's bad it hurts this team badly.  He has potential, but until he stops making those key mistakes people are going to be justified in critiquing him.

 

 

Nah, the OP is right.

 

He hurts the team badly?

 

In his last 4 games, Josh has thrown 4 TDs and 5 ints.  In the 3 losses, he has 3 TDs and 4 ints (including the game ending v. ViIkings).   For the season  23 TDs but 11INTs (most in the league).

 

If you want to talk about the player, when he's "bad" it "hurts the team badly", better start there...

[billsfan89]

Davis has played OK, I was expecting more but his stats aren’t tragic while his drops are a concern he has had 5 games with more than 65 yards out of 10 games played. That’s pretty in line with WR2 production esp considering he had an injury that really limited him in two games.

 

It is just that he hasn’t been that WR1A/B that we really wanted him to be. 

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nah, the OP is right.

 

He hurts the team badly?

 

In his last 4 games, Josh has thrown 4 TDs and 5 ints.  In the 3 losses, he has 3 TDs and 4 ints (including the game ending v. ViIkings).   For the season  23 TDs but 11INTs (most in the league).

 

If you want to talk about the player, when he's "bad" it "hurts the team badly", better start there...

 

Dropped critical 4th down pass from Josh in the Jets game, which resulted in 1 of the Bills' 3 losses this season?

 

As I said, when he's good, he's amazing.  When he's bad, it costs the team bad.

[Doc]

He's getting the rap he deserves.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Dropped critical 4th down pass from Josh in the Jets game, which resulted in 1 of the Bills' 3 losses this season?

 

As I said, when he's good, he's amazing.  When he's bad, it costs the team bad.

You listed one game.  I described all 3 losses

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

And we are coming up on a decision of whether or not we’re going to pay him big money at all factors in

I hope they don't.

 

He's been a major disappointment. For some reason beane can't scout WRs

[The Red King]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You listed one game.  I described all 3 losses

 

So, causing 33% of the Bills' losses is no big deal?  Goes right up there with a full 10% drop rate, I suppose.  Again, I'm not calling for the guy's head.  I'm just saying there is certainly justification for the flak he's receiving.

[CoudyBills]

Is this what we're doing now?  If people point out that our favorite player is under-performing, we start a thread saying how we can't believe it, or we are disgusted, or they're all idiots?

[benderbender]

32 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Is this what we're doing now?  If people point out that our favorite player is under-performing, we start a thread saying how we can't believe it, or we are disgusted, or they're all idiots?

It’s the staple of Reddit. Sad to see it come here to roost.

[RunTheBall]

Gabe is a victim of fan expectations like the team is as a whole right now. We wanted him to take the next step, he hasn’t done that yet. His drops in critical situations magnify the issue.  I think he’s a serviceable #2 right now, would like him to make the leap to solid #2. He will never be a 1b receiver many here anticipated. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

So, causing 33% of the Bills' losses is no big deal?  Goes right up there with a full 10% drop rate, I suppose.  Again, I'm not calling for the guy's head.  I'm just saying there is certainly justification for the flak he's receiving.

 

You're pinning the JETS loss on Davis?  

 

Let's unpack that a bit.  Near the end of the 3rd, Gardner picks off Josh, leading to a TD 80 seconds later and giving the jets the lead. 

 

Now it's the 4th Q.  Bills punt and the Jets just gash the D on a 12 play (7 1st downs.. 10 runs!), 6 minute drive to kick a FG and take the lead.

 

Fast  forward to late 4th Q, Bills down by 3.  It's 1st and 20 from their own 15 after a zero gain catch by Diggs (ZERO yards 4th Q on 4 targets) and a hold by Dawkins.  Next, Josh hits Davis for a circus catch on the sideline (aided by poor officiating).  2nd and 2....and Josh gives up the stripe sack fumble---recovered after a loss of 19 yards.  Now it's 3rd and 21, Josh misses Diggs.  4th and 21 from their 14, no TO left, Josh heaves it and Gardner is smothering/faceshielding/pawing Davis.  Incomplete.

 

Yeah, Davis "caused the Bills to lose" to the (former) NY Zach Wilsons.  

 

Keep it coming....

 

 

 

 

[The Red King]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're pinning the JETS loss on Davis?  

 

Let's unpack that a bit.  Near the end of the 3rd, Gardner picks off Josh, leading to a TD 80 seconds later and giving the jets the lead. 

 

Now it's the 4th Q.  Bills punt and the Jets just gash the D on a 12 play (7 1st downs.. 10 runs!), 6 minute drive to kick a FG and take the lead.

 

Fast  forward to late 4th Q, Bills down by 3.  It's 1st and 20 from their own 15 after a zero gain catch by Diggs (ZERO yards 4th Q on 4 targets) and a hold by Dawkins.  Next, Josh hits Davis for a circus catch on the sideline (aided by poor officiating).  2nd and 2....and Josh gives up the stripe sack fumble---recovered after a loss of 19 yards.  Now it's 3rd and 21, Josh misses Diggs.  4th and 21 from their 14, no TO left, Josh heaves it and Gardner is smothering/faceshielding/pawing Davis.  Incomplete.

 

Yeah, Davis "caused the Bills to lose" to the (former) NY Zach Wilsons.  

 

Keep it coming....

 

 

 

 

 

He is not the sole cause, but his 4th down drop was a critical, game-killing drop.

 

Let me ask bluntly.  Are you completely happy with Davis' performance this year right now?  Completely being the key word.

Edited November 28, 2022 by The Red King