6-2 mid-season....not too shabby

[gobills404]

I definitely feel better about this team right now than I did through the first 8 weeks of 2020 or 2021

[RangerDave]

11 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I said this after the Miami loss and it applies again here.  Better to lose to a team that you face again, than to a AFC contender that you only play once.  The Bills can avenge these 2 losses later in the season when momentum is even more important.  Playing the Ravens, KC, and Tennessee only once, it was critical to win those games and retain the tie-breaker over those teams.  While the Bills currently don't have the tie-breaker against Miami and the Jests, they can negate the loss of tie-breaker by beating them in the 2nd matchup.

 

Let me be clear - it is never good to lose a game and losing certain games does not improve the team's playoff chances.  (I'm sure some will remember a post here a few years ago implying that a loss to a NFC team would help the Bills playoff chances....)  The point is that if you are going to lose 2 games, these are better ones to lose than some others.  And yes, I realize that division and conference records are important for playoff seeding, but I still stand by the premise that, based on this season, how the schedule pans out, etc., that these 2 games were "better" losses than Baltimore, KC, and Tennessee.  (Obviously, losses to NFC teams and non-division, non-contending AFC teams would be even better losses.)

I agree.  We are the current nunber one seed in the AFC.  And, we have the tiebreaker against the next top 3 teams by virtue of beating them.  The next top 2 after that are both teams in the AFCE who we play at home in the coming weeks.

 

We are still in the driver's seat for the top seed.  If we shake off the slight funk we are in, like we usually do, we'll stay that way to the end.  

[Bob in STL]

49 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

1988 2020 Bills AFC Championship - got beat soundly in both games

1989 2021 Bills Divisional Round - lost a heartbreaker

1990-1994 SBs ..

 

So not seeing a difference so far.

 

 

This current Bills team has already lost 3 heartbreaker playoff games to Texans, Chiefs, and Chiefs - all on the road.   Blowing a 16-0 halftime lead in 
Houston only to lose in OT, blowing a 9-0 first quarter lead in KC (a lead that should have been much bigger), and then wilting in the 13 second debacle in KC last year.  

 

There is a major difference to the Kelly era teams that made it to the SB in their 3rd playoff season.  I would not rate this Bills team at the level of the Kelly era teams until to get to the SB.  To pass those teams they will have to win a SB.  

 

The biggest difference between the two teams is the Oline and Thurman.  The Kelly era had superior offensive lineman at every position, and they had a big time HoF player in Thurman Thomas.  If Kelly was off, or the weather was bad, we had Thurman/Davis/Garner/Mueller and an OL that you could ride.  

 

The current team is relying heavily on Allen/Diggs and a usually stingy defense.  

Edited November 8, 2022 by Bob in STL

[newcam2012]

49 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

1988 2020 Bills AFC Championship - got beat soundly in both games

1989 2021 Bills Divisional Round - lost a heartbreaker

1990-1994 SBs ..

 

So not seeing a difference so far.

Four straight Super Bowl appearances isn't a difference maker? Really? 

[Success]

18 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

yeah, what indicators have you seeing that

 

 

The schedule, the team's talent level, the nature of their 2 losses, the level of competitiveness in the league, how we've responded to adversity in the past.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

The schedule, the team's talent level, the nature of their 2 losses, the level of competitiveness in the league, how we've responded to adversity in the past.

 

 

Does past performance guarantee current reuslts? Also, the schedule's not looking so hot these days. Tough one this week, and a LOT of winning teams on the backend

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[Success]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Does past performance guarantee current reuslts

 

 

It doesn't - but it's a factor.  

 

Ultimately, it just comes down to how I feel about this team.  I think we're more the team from the TN blowout & the clutch KC win, than the team from the weird Phins loss and Sunday's loss to the Jets.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

It doesn't - but it's a factor.  

 

Ultimately, it just comes down to how I feel about this team.  I think we're more the team from the TN blowout & the clutch KC win, than the team from the weird Phins loss and Sunday's loss to the Jets.

 

Ok, so, in the end no more authoratative than feelings of dread then

 

I'm usually pretty optimistic, but not feeling it this week.

[Ya Digg?]

A huge part of the problem on here is people dissect every little thing that the Bills do wrong, but take the 10,000 ft view when looking at other teams.  KC struggled the entire game the other night but people will look at them and go "well they're 6-2, doesn't matter how they got there" and don't dissect their troubles.  Every team has weaknesses, but with this being a Bills discussion board we really only focus on what the Bills did bad/good

[Paup 1995MVP]

14 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

This current Bills team has already lost 3 heartbreaker playoff games to Texans, Chiefs, and Chiefs - all on the road.   Blowing a 16-0 halftime lead in 
Houston only to lose in OT, blowing a 9-0 first quarter lead in KC (a lead that should have been much bigger), and then wilting in the 13 second debacle in KC last year.  

 

There is a major difference to the Kelly era teams that made it to the SB in their 3rd playoff season.  I would not rate this Bills team at the level of the Kelly era teams until to get to the SB.  To pass those teams they will have to win a SB.  

 

The biggest difference between the two teams is the Oline and Thurman.  The Kelly era had superior offensive lineman at every position, and they had a big time HoF player in Thurman Thomas.  If Kelly was off, or the weather was bad, we had Thurman/Davis/Garner/Mueller and an OL that you could ride.  

 

The current team is relying heavily on Allen/Diggs and a usually stingy defense.  

I love this thread.  Because I love going back to a golden era of Bills football.  You are spot on Bob.  The O line and RB situation on the Bills' teams of 30 years ago were much better then today.  We have noone close to Thurman, or Kenny Davis for that matter.  And no comparison on the O lines.  I would dare say that our overall coaching was better then then now.  

 

I was really excited about this years roster at the start of the season.  But watching against the Jets, we were dominated on both lines.  Very good teams are tough in the trenches.  Beane and McDermott have just not been able to build a solid O line.  Its a tough chore.  But Kansas City and Baltimore have it.  We do not.  Not sure what the problem is besides lack of talent.  And in the front 7 the only two playmakers we have are Milano and Von Miller, and Rousseau is hopefully on the way to becoming that.  The rest of the D lineman seem like JAGs.  No explosiveness.  Watching the Titans D on Sunday nite.  The energy they brought was impressive.  Settle, D Jones, Oliver, Basham, Epenesa Lawson.  Where is the juice.  And don't get me started about Edmonds.  He did nothing against the Jets, and is lost without Milano. 

 

Injuries have hurt our team.  And I think the coaching on the whole is mediocre.  McDermott is no savant.  He isn't a clown.  But he brings no energy and juice.  And sometimes a little emotion and energy is needed from the man in charge.  And as for Frazier.  He reminds me of a walking corpse.  Isn't Defense about emotion passion and knocking the crap out of someone?  

 

We have a great QB, a great WR and some good complimentary parts.  And when the offense is humming, we are tough to beat.  But we have two tough home games coming up.  Minnesota is 7-1 but does not dominate teams.  Cousins will get rattled on the road if you bring the heat and rough him up.  But the defense really needs to come with some nastiness.  Lets hope Milano and Poyer are able to play.  That will help things.  J Johnson looked lost last Sunday.  So did Bernard and Edmunds.  And how about some D Lineman not named Von making some plays and knocking the crap out of some Vikings?  Lets go Buffalo.  Remember the NFL is a week to week league.  Just because we are 6-2 doesn't mean anything, because the last 6 qtrs we have been sorry looking.  Time to rev it up.    

[FilthyBeast]

This team was also 6-2 in 2019 and 2020, so it's not like it's a milestone accomplishment.

 

And for all the work this team did early in the year winning against the other 3 teams currently leading their divisions in the AFC, it all goes out the window if this team is about to be mired in another season funk similar to last year when they essentially played .500 football the greater part of 2 months before deciding it was worth showing up again the last 4 games of the season.

 

And if that happens again where the Bills fall out of first place in the division, I'm fairly confident this time they may not regain that position again given how strong the other 3 teams are right now especially currently being winless in division play.

[SoCal Deek]

Here’s the deal. The current version of the Bills needs to prove they can win close games down the stretch if they’re going to get the entire fanbase on board. As things currently stand a great number of fans are just praying they’re up by two touchdowns in the fourth quarter so that the game’s out of reach. I wish that wasn’t the case…but sadly it is. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

We going to be all good!!  Super Bowl?  Who knows, but we are winning the division and will host a playoff game or two.  Anything can happen from there.  

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

This current Bills team has already lost 3 heartbreaker playoff games to Texans, Chiefs, and Chiefs - all on the road.   Blowing a 16-0 halftime lead in 
Houston only to lose in OT, blowing a 9-0 first quarter lead in KC (a lead that should have been much bigger), and then wilting in the 13 second debacle in KC last year.  

 

There is a major difference to the Kelly era teams that made it to the SB in their 3rd playoff season.  I would not rate this Bills team at the level of the Kelly era teams until to get to the SB.  To pass those teams they will have to win a SB.  

 

The biggest difference between the two teams is the Oline and Thurman.  The Kelly era had superior offensive lineman at every position, and they had a big time HoF player in Thurman Thomas.  If Kelly was off, or the weather was bad, we had Thurman/Davis/Garner/Mueller and an OL that you could ride.  

 

The current team is relying heavily on Allen/Diggs and a usually stingy defense.  

Great post! The gap between the two teams is very very wide. Not even close in my opinion. I love Allen but I'll take a Jim Kelly a 100s over before I take Allen. He was a winner, a leader, and a Buffalo Bill to the heart. Even still proves that to this day. When the game was on the line Kelly would be magical. Allen not so much. He was great in KC hitting Knox for the game winner. Great in the KC playoff game with his comeback. The Jets game? He is special no doubt. No knock on Allen. We were fortunate to have Kelly and now Allen. The comparasions though aren't really fair to either one. The variables in play are just too wide and broad. You pointed out some of them. 

 

With that said, I can't get out of my head the waiting for the Allen update. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by newcam2012

[corta765]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

A huge part of the problem on here is people dissect every little thing that the Bills do wrong, but take the 10,000 ft view when looking at other teams.  KC struggled the entire game the other night but people will look at them and go "well they're 6-2, doesn't matter how they got there" and don't dissect their troubles.  Every team has weaknesses, but with this being a Bills discussion board we really only focus on what the Bills did bad/good

 

A lot of fans don't have the time to do this but I agree. If you check out other teams messages boards or even their main media there is more concern then what lets on. Some Ravens fans I interact with on twitter and are generally cool have been near ground zero at points this year especially after they blew a third double digit lead. Now they feel much better and things have rounded into form.

 

Biggest issue right now is Josh's status, losing him for two games could cost them the one see and make the division race razor thing. 

[nosejob]

When the schedule came out, if someone told me we'd be 6-2, I'd have been grateful....and surprised.

It was either Tasker or Brownie that made a good point earlier that the 3 teams behind us all have 3 divisional games left. 3 of 4 of ours will be late season at home. If Mcd can take over this defense this week and we can get after Cousins and get a win , we'll be ok.

 

Gotta get some deer antler spray for Josh's arm. Worked wonders for me....Sincerely Ray Lewis.

Edited November 8, 2022 by nosejob

[BuffaloMatt]

I still need to be held . . .

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Great post! The gap between the two teams is very very wide. Not even close in my opinion. I love Allen but I'll take a Jim Kelly a 100s over before I take Allen. He was a winner, a leader, and a Buffalo Bill to the heart. Even still proves that to this day. When the game was on the line Kelly would be magical. Allen not so much. He was great in KC hitting Knox for the game winner. Great in the KC playoff game with his comeback. The Jets game? He is special no doubt. No knock on Allen. We were fortunate to have Kelly and now Allen. The comparasions though aren't really fair to either one. The variables in play are just too wide and broad. You pointed out some of them. 

 

With that said, I can't get out of my head the waiting for the Allen update. 

Thanks, but I am not saying I think Kelly is better than Allen.  I am saying that the Kelly Bills are so far a better team than the Allen Bills, and that the Allen Bills are a year behind the Kelly Bills in getting to the SB.   That said, I think Allen is a better overall talent than Kelly and is going to be better than Kelly if he plays as long.   I believe that Kelly had a much better OL that stayed together a long time.  He also had HOF'ers like Thurman and Andre and Lofton, plus many other very good players.   The OLs and RBs on Allen's Bills are not even close to what Kelly had.  

[hondo in seattle]

I'm not worried about being 6-2.  That's a strong record.  I do worry about home field advantage because I worry about the injuries.  Too many of our best players have been missing games and now Josh has an UCL injury.  

 

If we were 100% healthy going into the second half (more or less) of the season with a 6-2 start, I wouldn't be worried at all.  

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by hondo in seattle

[CorkScrewHill]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Four straight Super Bowl appearances isn't a difference maker? Really? 

I was comparing the first three playoff seasons .. the next 4 years for this version are still TBD

[Sweats]

10 hours ago, BillsVet said:

LOL at the comparisons to Bills teams from 30 years ago.  Pre salary cap when Buffalo's roster was exceedingly better than just about every team in the league.  It's as if people cannot comprehend the game's changed markedly in the intervening years.

 

The loss to Miami was not good, nor the Jets loss.  It happens and every reasonable fan knew they weren't going 16-1 or 17-0.  

 

Doesn't mean it's fun to see division rivals win, albeit when they're home.  

 

At this point, it's time to see what this staff can do. For all the plaudits given them, at crucial times they seem caught flat-footed.  Time will tell.  

 

 

 

Who's comparing the 2 teams or the 2 eras?......i simply stated that the division nowadays reminds me of 30 years ago when the AFCEast was THE best division in the NFL for competing.

[TBBills Fan]

22 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Did the Kelly era team(s) have mid season "slumps" and "swoons"?

 

Its so long ago I cant recall ... also it was pre internet days so I had to look up the results each week in the Tuesday newspaper at the time.

 

 

Yes for sure. 

[Sweats]

9 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Where do you live OP?

 

 

 

 

 

I live in a small hick town in Northern Quebec, Canada.....they usually televise the Bills games, but this past week, they didn't

[ArtVandalay]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:05 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Except we’ve seen this before.

 

A swoon is not a Playoff chances killer, but the whole point was to get the #1 seed.

 

We’ve done road Arrowhead twice and it sucks.

 

8 games in and we’re sitting here asking again about run game for the third year in a row, who is our #2, why don’t we have a Tight End, who is our Right Tackle this week, why does our offense go off the rails for 2-4 games every season? 
 

Road head ✅

Road arrowhead ❌

[Airseven]

It's not too shabby in the context of reasonable expectations. AFC is wide open though.

 

1. Eagles

2. Chiefs

3. Dolphins

4. Vikings

5. Bills

6. Ravens

7. Cowboys

8. Jets

9. Chargers

10. Bengals

11. Seahawks

12. Giants

13. Titans

14. 49ers

15. Patriots

16. Bucs

17. Falcons

18. Commanders

19. Rams

20. Browns

21. Jaguars 

22. Broncos

23. Packers

24. Bears

25. Cardinals

26. Saints

27. Colts 

28. Lions

29. Raiders

30. Steelers

31. Panthers

32. Texans

[Warriorspikes51]

The only reason we aren't 8-0 is self inflicted.  

[benderbender]

So we admit it is shabby at the very least. 

[Ray Stonada]

The Bills would be 8-0 except for two short yardage failures against the Fins and Jets.

 

They need to be able to convert 1 yard runs 80% pf the time. If the lineman and running backs Buffalo has can't make that happen, then they need other guys. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

The Bills would be 8-0 except for two short yardage failures against the Fins and Jets.

 

They need to be able to convert 1 yard runs 80% pf the time. If the lineman and running backs Buffalo has can't make that happen, then they need other guys. 

I look at it differently. The Bills need to win close games down the stretch. They failed against both the Dolphins and Jets. Someone has to step up and make a play. 

[chongli]

There was a lunatic caller this morning on The SirusXM Blitz with Bruce Murray on SiriusXM NFL Radio. He admitted he was a Baltimore fan and said there was a realistic chance Buffalo would not make the playoffs this year, even with Josh Allen. This is what he said:

 

Buffalo has to play New England twice, Miami, the Jets again, Minnesota, and Cincinnati, all of which will be tough games.

The Bills could have easily lost to KC and Baltimore as well.

Cincinnati and Baltimore are locks, as are KC, San Diego, Tennessee, and Miami. If that is so, Buffalo will be competing with the Jets and New England (I think he said) for the final spot, and anything could happen.

If Buffalo were really that good, they would be leading their division by 4.5 games, like Minnesota is.

 

Bruce and his guest shot him down right away, saying the Bills would have to go 2-7 in their next nine games to not make the playoff, and they have destroyed teams at home this year. It's not happening, even with Case Keenum in some of the games.

 

I'm just shocked someone actually thinks this way and they let him call in.

Edited November 10, 2022 by chongli

[HunTim]

On 11/8/2022 at 11:18 AM, Aussie Joe said:

huh??… someone thinks a slump means losing one  game and I need to show something in italics?

 

I believe that he was referring to the OP which was all in bold.

[Orlando Tim]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:22 AM, newcam2012 said:

That 90s Kelly led team was elite on both sides of the ball with huge playmakers. One should never compare those teams with the current Bills team. It's not even close. You have several Hall of famers from that team. Four straight super Bowl appearances. Stop with the non sense. There was no panic because they were that good. They proved it year after year. This version of the Bills has proven they can't even get to an AFC Championship game. Maybe that's why there's concern. 

Not sure if you truly remember those years and the QB controversy among fans, discussions of Jeff Wright, was our TE good enough. All these conversations came around and we're put to bed by them playing well. This Bills team is similar and the comparison is appropriate 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said:

Not sure if you truly remember those years and the QB controversy among fans, discussions of Jeff Wright, was our TE good enough. All these conversations came around and we're put to bed by them playing well. This Bills team is similar and the comparison is appropriate 

Disagree strongly. Hall of famers on the team of the 90s:

 

Jim Kelly, James Lofton,  Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, and Thurman Thomas. I'm sorry there is no way no how this current team is close to the Bills teams of the 90s. Thomas was unbelievable on every level. I'll take a Bruce Smith over a Von Miller of today. Reed is a better version of Diggs. In the trenches the 90s Bills were by far better. Bennett was a game wrecker. That 9s team hands down was/is better than today's Bills. I'm not sure how you can't see that. 

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, Airseven said:

It's not too shabby in the context of reasonable expectations. AFC is wide open though.

 

1. Eagles

2. Chiefs

3. Dolphins

4. Vikings

5. Bills

6. Ravens

7. Cowboys

8. Jets

9. Chargers

10. Bengals

11. Seahawks

12. Giants

13. Titans

14. 49ers

15. Patriots

16. Bucs

17. Falcons

18. Commanders

19. Rams

20. Browns

21. Jaguars 

22. Broncos

23. Packers

24. Bears

25. Cardinals

26. Saints

27. Colts 

28. Lions

29. Raiders

30. Steelers

31. Panthers

32. Texans

Why are the bills fifth on that list when we have a better record against everybody but the Eagles

[Orlando Tim]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Disagree strongly. Hall of famers on the team of the 90s:

 

Jim Kelly, James Lofton,  Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, and Thurman Thomas. I'm sorry there is no way no how this current team is close to the Bills teams of the 90s. Thomas was unbelievable on every level. I'll take a Bruce Smith over a Von Miller of today. Reed is a better version of Diggs. In the trenches the 90s Bills were by far better. Bennett was a game wrecker. That 9s team hands down was/is better than today's Bills. I'm not sure how you can't see that. 

The team is built completely differently but the game is completely different. Tremaine Edmunds and Matt Milano don't exist in 1993. We could not even consider running out defense then. Josh can do things that Kelly could not even consider, and I disagree with Reed vs Diggs, if Diggs continues this for 6 more years he is going to the HOF

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

The team is built completely differently but the game is completely different. Tremaine Edmunds and Matt Milano don't exist in 1993. We could not even consider running out defense then. Josh can do things that Kelly could not even consider, and I disagree with Reed vs Diggs, if Diggs continues this for 6 more years he is going to the HOF

The huge difference makers are Thurman and Bruce Smith. This current team of RBs aren't even worthy of folding Thurm's underwear. Bruce Smith was a game wrecker that you absolutely had to game plan for. The lines were vastly better and clearly more consistent than this current Bills team. Tasker was elite on special teams. The 90s WR core is by far better as well. Beside Diggs this team has really no one who is proven or cobsistent. Allen can do more the Kelly. I agree there. But it was Kelly's ability to lead the team and win which distinguishes him over Allen. I'll put it this way. When the game was on the line you knew Kelly would lead the team down the field to victory. With Allen, you just don't have that level of confidence. Sure the game is different but in a vacuum the 90s team was special, elite, and it showed with 4 straight super bowls. What has the current team accomplished? In my mind it's not even remotely close. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by newcam2012

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I did predict a worse record at this point but I don’t feel good about the team.

 

Reason is simple, injuries. All these injuries could make us stronger down the stretch as we’ll be battle tested, but we have to survive all these injuries.

[Greg S]

So, this Sunday we have two games of interest. With both NYJ and NE on the bye its Vikings at Bills (obviously) and the Browns at Dolphins. Let's go Browns and Bills of course.