Why oh why are we not establishing a running game ?

[Chicken Boo]

10 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Not a good enough sample size?

 

He’s been in the league 3.5 years now with similar output every season? 

 

If he were a true 4.7ypc guy, he'd see a lot more carries than he does and Beane wouldn't be kicking the tires, looking for an upgrade.

 

Either that or I'm wrong and Devin Singletary is a better runner than Christian McCaffrey, Adrian Peterson, Priest Holmes, Fred Taylor, OJ Simpson, Saquon Barkley, Shady Mccoy and a host of others.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

If he were a true 4.7ypc guy, he'd see a lot more carries than he does and Beane wouldn't be kicking the tires, looking for an upgrade.

 

Either that or I'm wrong and Devin Singletary is a better runner than Christian McCaffrey, Adrian Peterson, Priest Holmes, Fred Taylor, OJ Simpson, Saquon Barkley, Shady Mccoy and a host of others.

Ok, but look at these “upgrades” Beane kicks the tires on.

 

JD McKissic - Catches a bunch of short dump off passes, but a token player in the offense.

 

Nyheim Hines - An okay scat back, who isn’t really playable as a ball carrier. 
 

Frank Gore - A way over the hill plodder that wasted snaps. 
 

Old “dual threats” who can’t get on the field - TJ Yeldon, Matt Breida, Duke Johnson. 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If Keenum goes in the offense will be a lot different and I would expect establishing the run to be a higher priority.

 

God forbid that happens because teams will stack the box even further and dare Keenum to beat them which is becoming a challenge for Allen as it is locking onto Diggs with no other reliable options.

[Matt_In_NH]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

God forbid that happens because teams will stack the box even further and dare Keenum to beat them which is becoming a challenge for Allen as it is locking onto Diggs with no other reliable options.

Have faith....no they wont be as successful as an offense, it will be different but that does not mean they just lose every game.   I believe these guys are capable of it but they play and coach and scheme for the pass when Josh is in there.  Yeah, it ain't gonna be sexy, get some wins....that is all that will matter.

[cle23]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Still need to be able to run for those times when your QB looks like steaming dog-*****

 

 

I agree.  Just saying that a 4.6 YPC average is not a great indicator of a good RB without context.  CMC was the Panther's offense.  Singletary is almost an afterthought, so when he does run, he get less focus, which can lead to more yardage.

[JerseyBills]

On 11/6/2022 at 4:18 PM, Returntoglory said:

My God! Putting too much pressure on Allen. We have the backs. What gives???

No clue

12 carries in a gm you have the lead or tied for 58 minutes is unacceptable 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

You can't compare their YPC though,  without context.  CMC was the focal point of the offense in Carolina, and didn't have much help.  They have decent WRs but no one to get them the ball.  Singletary is the 3rd-5th option in Buffalo,  so teams don't game plan around him.  

 

My point is RB is NOT the BIGGEST problem! Not by a long shot. We are adequate at RB (not great, but let’s see how Cook progresses), we are not adequate on the OL for run blocking. 

 

I pray that Kromer can make improvements as the year goes on. 

 

.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Augie

[Einstein]

35 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My point is RB is NOT the problem! 

 

Its very much part of the problem.

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

It really doesn't.  It's not elite, but the Bills OL is in the next tier of teams that can have good moments and bad moments, but don't sabotage games.  

 

Bingo.

 

You'll notice the "RBs are fine" crowd refuse to acknowledge this point:

 

Beane drafted a running back, traded for a running back, and made calls about two other high profile running backs (McCaffrey and Kamara). Does that sound like a GM that blames the offensive line and thinks the running backs are completely fine? I don’t think so.

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Its very much part of the problem.

 

Bingo.

 

You'll notice the "RBs are fine" crowd refuse to acknowledge this point:

 

Beane drafted a running back, traded for a running back, and made calls about two other high profile running backs (McCaffrey and Kamara). Does that sound like a GM that blames the offensive line and thinks the running backs are completely fine? I don’t think so.

 

You always try to get better, at every position. Nobody is saying we are elite at either position.  I will grade the OL run blocking below the RB’s. Feel free to disagree. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Patrick Mahomes threw it SIXTY EIGHT TIMES in a 20-17 win.

 

RUSHING:

Mahomes: 63

Everyone else: 14

 

I think someone ELSE may need a running game as well, but hey, it's the Chiefs, so they get a free pass.

Edited November 9, 2022 by EasternOHBillsFan

[RevWarRifleman]

On 11/6/2022 at 4:19 PM, TonyBeets said:

That was the difference to me, why aren't we running the football.  

Roger that, Tony. I agree.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Its very much part of the problem.

 

Bingo.

 

You'll notice the "RBs are fine" crowd refuse to acknowledge this point:

 

Beane drafted a running back, traded for a running back, and made calls about two other high profile running backs (McCaffrey and Kamara). Does that sound like a GM that blames the offensive line and thinks the running backs are completely fine? I don’t think so.

 

Its easier to find a running back than it is to find an oline that can block for him.  

[cle23]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Patrick Mahomes threw it SIXTY EIGHT TIMES in a 20-17 win.

 

RUSHING:

Mahomes: 63

Everyone else: 14

 

I think someone ELSE may need a running game as well, but hey, it's the Chiefs, so they get a free pass.

 

The Chiefs are in the same boat.  The issue being with either team is that if the QB has any kind of off night, or even just an average night,  it makes it extremely difficult to win games. 

 

Every team is stronger in either run/pass.  But when your offense is 80% predicated on 1 player, or on the pass, it makes game planning that much easier. 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Ok, but look at these “upgrades” Beane kicks the tires on.

 

JD McKissic - Catches a bunch of short dump off passes, but a token player in the offense.

 

Nyheim Hines - An okay scat back, who isn’t really playable as a ball carrier. 
 

Frank Gore - A way over the hill plodder that wasted snaps. 
 

Old “dual threats” who can’t get on the field - TJ Yeldon, Matt Breida, Duke Johnson. 

They had opportunities to draft Taylor, Etienne & Walker or Hall. We can trade up for an Edmunds or AJE type, but God forbid we try to find a dynamic runner. Moot point anyway considering we've gone 3 years with a horrible run blocking OL.  Beane knows this but keeps getting swept up into McD's defensive world.....

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If Keenum goes in the offense will be a lot different and I would expect establishing the run to be a higher priority.

 

TBH even if Josh Allen is able to play, I think they better change up the offense and make establishing the run a higher priority, to take some pressure off that healing UCL.

[BillsShredder83]

On 11/6/2022 at 5:12 PM, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Singletary is a great complimentary piece. He’s a do it all kind of guy, but has no speed. Cook is all speed, buuuuuuuuuut, there doesn’t seem to be much else there. They need a real RB. A true starting caliber RB could get yards with this line. Singletary consistently gets to the second level, but because he has no speed, he gets caught up by the ankles. It’s hard to watch week after week. 

I think alot of people are Cook as a Spiller type back. Pure speed, but a piece of hay can tackle him.

 

Don't get me wrong he's far from Derrick Henry, but his few carries I was pleasantly surprised to see him fall forward for few extra yards.

 

Not even necessarily defending him, just an observation

[BBills_88]

I find it weird that the Mc D talks running the ball, but our OC consistently abandons the run.

 

Sometimes it's good to take the ball out of the qb's hands. Force feed that run game with the running backs. Olinemen love run blocking. 

 

Run the ball with Motor, Cook, Hines & Gilliam. Wear down the Dline atleast enough were their pass rush is effected Than we can be pass happy. 

 

I hope Knox, Morris & Shakir get more targets moving forward.

 

 

 

[Big Turk]

Because we aren't a running team and never will be while Josh Allen is here.

 

I don't understand the obsession with acting like we are the Titans.

 

You know why you establish the run? Because your team has a garbage QB.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

The Chiefs are in the same boat.  The issue being with either team is that if the QB has any kind of off night, or even just an average night,  it makes it extremely difficult to win games. 

 

Every team is stronger in either run/pass.  But when your offense is 80% predicated on 1 player, or on the pass, it makes game planning that much easier. 

 

What is comical is that they are doing EXACTLY what we are doing... picking up HBs that are fast and pass catchers and not using any bruisers whatsoever. The NFL media says NOTHING about the Chiefs but we are the ones with the "dependence on the pass/can't run the ball" problem. Edwards-Helaire just isn't cutting it, and the Bills obviously do not want to retain Devin.

 

I don't want to be the Houston Oilers of the 2020s, to be very frank.

[Returntoglory]

47 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Because we aren't a running team and never will be while Josh Allen is here.

 

I don't understand the obsession with acting like we are the Titans.

 

You know why you establish the run? Because your team has a garbage QB.

Obsession?? 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

45 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Because we aren't a running team and never will be while Josh Allen is here.

 

I don't understand the obsession with acting like we are the Titans.

 

You know why you establish the run? Because your team has a garbage QB.

 

Thurman Thomas would VEHEMENTLY disagree with you... we had Thurman and KD as a 1-2 punch and we were very successful. The Rams were the exception to the rule last season... you just can't go out there and be one dimensional and win a Super Bowl, period. Look at the stats and you will see!!!!

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 11/6/2022 at 3:19 PM, IronMaidenBills said:

We can’t. Our Oline is pure garbage. 

I agree, this oline couldn’t push Pee Wee Herman over.

[GreggTX]

Because our OL isn't very good. We are a passing team, but there's no question that we'd be so much better if we ran more to keep defenses honest. You don't need an excuse or a garbage QB to run. We've just neglected it.

Edited November 10, 2022 by GreggTX

[Putin]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:46 AM, Returntoglory said:

Negative. Does not justify it. He needs run support. 

I was just being sarcastic , I would love to have a running like we had back in the early 90’s , this team would be unstoppable !! 

6 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Because our OL isn't very good.

It’s mind boggling that it’s been more then 5 years now and we CAN NOT get a running game going !! 

[JoshAllin]

The OL is best at pass blocking than run blocking I am guessing so they're focusing on their strength

[White Linen]

We're 13th in the league rushing YPG.  8 of the 12 above us have a low end QB situation IMO, I counted Lamar, Hurts,  Dak and  Lawrence as viable.  2 of them have a rushing QB (Lamar and Hurts).  Only 6 of those 12 teams have a winning record. 

 

We're where we should be with a top flight QB.  Miami, Jets,  Vikes, KC, Chargers, Cincinnati, Pat's all behind us.  Talk to me about those winning record teams critically needing to improve their running.  

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:10 PM, Big Turk said:

Because we aren't a running team and never will be while Josh Allen is here.

 

I don't understand the obsession with acting like we are the Titans.

 

You know why you establish the run? Because your team has a garbage QB.

We're never winning a SB without a better run attack.  Singletary has averaged exactly 50 yards per game in rushing over these last 4 seasons. This year he's only averaging 43 yd/game.  Ranks 38th in the NFL. Teams don't even gameplan Singletary anymore.  Play action is gone in the Bills playbook.  Just simply rush 4-5 and force Josh out of his comfort zone. Maybe you'll eventually hit him and do damage to his throwing arm.  Or you hit him on a scramble/designed run and his helmet bounces off the ground like we saw in the Jets game.  Anyone who thinks this is sustainable is delusional. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[UKBillFan]

On 11/9/2022 at 2:10 AM, Big Turk said:

Because we aren't a running team and never will be while Josh Allen is here.

 

I don't understand the obsession with acting like we are the Titans.

 

You know why you establish the run? Because your team has a garbage QB.

 

A running game opens up the field for passing as defense have to stop the run plays, and also takes pressure off Josh if he's having a bit of a slump. And we've seen before this season the run game work in the first half and we, for some reason, abandon it in the second. For contenders, it is always an option to keep defenses guessing.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

A running game opens up the field for passing as defense have to stop the run plays, and also takes pressure off Josh if he's having a bit of a slump. And we've seen before this season the run game work in the first half and we, for some reason, abandon it in the second. For contenders, it is always an option to keep defenses guessing.

 

They are perfectly capable of using the short passing game in the same way as they did in the Ram and Titan games

[Ramza86]

Oline sucks. Josh makes them look way better than they are.

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Oline sucks. Josh makes them look way better than they are.

And for 4+ years Josh has been covering up all the weaknesses and flaws in our OL. This is nothing new. Make Josh Allen account for 95% of the offense. Then McD can use his top 4-5 picks on defensive busts.  Brilliant strategy. This team's only hope to win a SB is Josh Allen. How bout we put a better OL around his arse to protect him. And when I say protect him I mean BOTH pass protection and run blocking. Good Lord find OLineman that can do both.