Can anyone explain this Bills jersey number oddity from the late 80's?

[BLeonard]

After buying jerseys every few years, only to see the player get traded, cut, etc, I decided that, if I ever bought another jersey, it'd be a throwback.  Most likely, a Jim Kelly jersey.  

 

But, I don't want the road Super Bowl XXV jersey, for obvious reasons.  I also don't want the 1994 version with the NFL 75th anniversary and Bills 35th anniversary patches (they had a losing season that year, so not really a fan).  Essentially, I just want a blue 90's Kelly jersey with no extra patches.

 

The problem is, pretty much every other throwback Kelly jersey is wrong.  Let me explain:

 

The first picture is the "Mitchell & Ness Legacy Replica."  This is the one on the Bills shop site.  The tag on the bottom reads "1990 Jim Kelly."  But, it always looked wrong to me.  After watching a clip of the 1990 AFC Championship, I figured out why.

 

The second picture is a screenshot of that game.  Look at the "2" on Kelly's jersey.  It's a straight diagonal line connecting the top of the number to the bottom, where the jersey in the first picture is more of a "box" #2, much like the Bills wear today.

 

So, I backtracked a bit and found that Kelly only wore the "box" 2 in 1986, his first season.  But, while watching a game from 1987 (Dolphins at Bills) I noticed that there were players simultaneously on the field, some with jerseys that had the "box" 2 and others that had the "diagonal" 2.  Pics 3 and 4 show #25 & #27 (Roland Mitchell & Ron Pitts) wearing the "box" 2 and #52 (John Kaiser) wearing the "diagonal" 2.

 

So, why was this?  I know this was before the NFL decided to start fining guys for wearing socks that were too high and/or the wrong color, but I'm trying to think of a reason why they'd not replace all of the jerseys at the same time.  Even if you're gonna phase them in, or didn't wanna buy all new jerseys at once, wouldn't you change all of the home jerseys one year and road the next or something like that?

[eball]

The answer is clear:  Ralph was cheap.

 

[machine gun kelly]

B, you’re putting way too much thought into it.  Enjoy the jersey and no worries.

[BLeonard]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

The answer is clear:  Ralph was cheap.

 

Yes, that thought had crossed my mind, lol

 

But, that begs the question, why did Kelly get a new jersey after his first season?  Wouldn't Ralph had said "I just made you the highest paid player in the league last year!  Buy your own damn jersey if you want a new one!"

2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

B, you’re putting way too much thought into it.  Enjoy the jersey and no worries.

I wish it were that easy.  I'm pretty picky and that box-looking 2 on a throwback when I know it's not right is way too far out of my comfort zone, lol

[OutOfBubbleGum]

Right now Ralph Wilson is in his grave laughing at you. Happy Halloween.

[Solomon Grundy]

You'd make Columbo proud!! 

[ChevyVanMiller]

27 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

After buying jerseys every few years, only to see the player get traded, cut, etc, I decided that, if I ever bought another jersey, it'd be a throwback.  Most likely, a Jim Kelly jersey.  

 

But, I don't want the road Super Bowl XXV jersey, for obvious reasons.  I also don't want the 1994 version with the NFL 75th anniversary and Bills 35th anniversary patches (they had a losing season that year, so not really a fan).  Essentially, I just want a blue 90's Kelly jersey with no extra patches.

 

The problem is, pretty much every other throwback Kelly jersey is wrong.  Let me explain:

 

The first picture is the "Mitchell & Ness Legacy Replica."  This is the one on the Bills shop site.  The tag on the bottom reads "1990 Jim Kelly."  But, it always looked wrong to me.  After watching a clip of the 1990 AFC Championship, I figured out why.

 

The second picture is a screenshot of that game.  Look at the "2" on Kelly's jersey.  It's a straight diagonal line connecting the top of the number to the bottom, where the jersey in the first picture is more of a "box" #2, much like the Bills wear today.

 

So, I backtracked a bit and found that Kelly only wore the "box" 2 in 1986, his first season.  But, while watching a game from 1987 (Dolphins at Bills) I noticed that there were players simultaneously on the field, some with jerseys that had the "box" 2 and others that had the "diagonal" 2.  Pics 3 and 4 show #25 & #27 (Roland Mitchell & Ron Pitts) wearing the "box" 2 and #52 (John Kaiser) wearing the "diagonal" 2.

 

So, why was this?  I know this was before the NFL decided to start fining guys for wearing socks that were too high and/or the wrong color, but I'm trying to think of a reason why they'd not replace all of the jerseys at the same time.  Even if you're gonna phase them in, or didn't wanna buy all new jerseys at once, wouldn't you change all of the home jerseys one year and road the next or something like that?

After reviewing your evidence I am convinced, more than ever, that there was a second shooter.

[BillsfaninChicago]

They probably just threw what number styles were available on to the jerseys as needed as the roster updated over the season. It was pretty hodgepodge back then. I remember the “throwbacks” worn in the 1994 season. It was just a white Buffalo sticker slapped on their helmets.
 

You probably could find a game worn jersey somewhere online if you are looking to spend a bit more. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by BillsfaninChicago

[Coldfronts]

Obsessive compulsive....I feel your pain

[MJS]

From the pictures it looks like the box 2 is always the first number and the diagonal 2 is the second.

[uticaclub]

That's the difference between “replica” and “authentic.”

[Sierra Foothills]

50 minutes ago, MJS said:

From the pictures it looks like the box 2 is always the first number and the diagonal 2 is the second.

 

I also noticed this.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Two…..shay……

[Son of a K-Gun]

Guess I'm burning my Kelly jerseys now, thanks a lot.

[Mango]

Really interesting catch. But weird it’s driving you this crazy.

 

My guess is that it has been 30 years since those jerseys were worn and they’re using the current number style across all jerseys both current and old. 

[Shake_My_Head]

Dave Hojnowski (retired fired Bills equipment manager) would probably know.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-hojnowski-68b89262/

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/former-equipment-manager-sues-bills-alleging-ageism/article_7a72e232-b7cb-5f69-bb1d-b195d44ca01b.html

Edited October 25, 2022 by Shake_My_Head

[cage]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

From the pictures it looks like the box 2 is always the first number and the diagonal 2 is the second.

 

Nice,... adding to the mystery!!

[cwater10]

I just wrote a check and went into crisis while writing the date.  

[BLeonard]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

From the pictures it looks like the box 2 is always the first number and the diagonal 2 is the second.

Same game.  Ricky Porter, #26.  diagonal 2.

[strive_for_five_guy]

19 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

Same game.  Ricky Porter, #26.  diagonal 2.

[UConn James]

As for why there were different styles at the same time, my guess would be that there were leftover 2s and as the equipment guys had to change out worn numbers — they were HTV (heat transfer vinyl) then — they just used what they had in stock, or were told to / had a tacit understanding to do that from above before new #s were ordered.

So, yes, it was literally a “Ralph is cheap” deal.

 

By the by, I’m trying to do a jersey rehab on a 90s Jim Kelly jersey, as some of the layering of the numbers peeled in the wash. Ordered some new adhesive backed tackle twill iron-and-then-sew-on numbers on eBay. Getting that vinyl off 30 years later is a £€^%ing bear! Even with acetone, it’s extremely slow going.

[BLeonard]

50 minutes ago, Mango said:

Really interesting catch. But weird it’s driving you this crazy.

 

Besides the obvious OCD, the simplest answer is, I had a replica while he was playing and it was correct, having the diagonal 2.  The box 2 just looks so off to me, because he wore the diagonal two.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

After reviewing your evidence I am convinced, more than ever, that there was a second shooter.

The grassy knoll strikes again.  Now that’s one magic loogie.

 

 

Back and to the left, back and to the left…

 

There had to be a 2nd spitter, from the gravely road.

Edited October 25, 2022 by machine gun kelly

[Whkfc]

Honestly I never noticed this watching the games back then and a curious to know the answer.

[Freddie's Dead]

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

 

Besides the obvious OCD, the simplest answer is, I had a replica while he was playing and it was correct, having the diagonal 2.  The box 2 just looks so off to me, because he wore the diagonal two.

 

I get not buying the jersey because of it, but I think it's hilarious that you are having a tough time with any other jersey. it is weird that the away jersey seems to have it with the boxed 2. The whole thing is pretty odd but I am pretty interested. 

Also, I have friends that have Kelly as a family friend. He is a grade A wiener head. Go get yourself a Bruce Smith or Thurman Thomas jersey and forget about it. 

[Roundybout]

You should send this over to Paul Lukas of UniWatch. He loves this kind of stuff. uni-watch.com

[BLeonard]

12 minutes ago, UConn James said:

As for why there were different styles at the same time, my guess would be that there were leftover 2s and as the equipment guys had to change out worn numbers — they were HTV (heat transfer vinyl) then — they just used what they had in stock, or were told to / had a tacit understanding to do that from above before new #s were ordered.

So, yes, it was literally a “Ralph is cheap” deal.

 

By the by, I’m trying to do a jersey rehab on a 90s Jim Kelly jersey, as some of the layering of the numbers peeled in the wash. Ordered some new adhesive backed tackle twill iron-and-then-sew-on numbers on eBay. Getting that vinyl off 30 years later is a £€^%ing bear! Even with acetone, it’s extremely slow going.

 

I know some places can replace the nameplates nowadays.  Curious as to if places like that would have the resources to help you at all.

 

The other thought that crept into my head as a possible explanation was that I know Champion took over their jerseys somewhere in that timeframe (the jersey you have is a Champion, as the logo is on the white stripe).  I guess it's possible that Champion used the diagonal numbers, while the previous manufacturer used the box numbers?

 

Then there's the case of when OJ Simpson was playing:

 

[Wayne Cubed]

10 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

 

I know some places can replace the nameplates nowadays.  Curious as to if places like that would have the resources to help you at all.

 

The other thought that crept into my head as a possible explanation was that I know Champion took over their jerseys somewhere in that timeframe (the jersey you have is a Champion, as the logo is on the white stripe).  I guess it's possible that Champion used the diagonal numbers, while the previous manufacturer used the box numbers?

 

Then there's the case of when OJ Simpson was playing:

 

 

I believe the Jersey supplier switched in 1987 to Champion? But the previous supplier used stitched on numbers, not the heat transfer that @UConn James talks about above. I could be wrong but I don't think they would be using stiched on with heat transfer numbers.

 

This is Kelly in 86, also last year of the blue facemask, and that number plate is stitched on.

[Ned Flanders]

I also obsess over this stuff and found that Mitchell and Ness and Ebbets Field Flannels are often times lazy in their depiction of throwback gear.

 

Also, in the late 80s, early 90s, some players had the "TV" numbers on the shoulders, while others had them on the sleeves.  Jamie Mueller and Flip Johnson come to mind.

 

 

 

 

[BLeonard]

23 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I believe the Jersey supplier switched in 1987 to Champion? But the previous supplier used stitched on numbers, not the heat transfer that @UConn James talks about above. I could be wrong but I don't think they would be using stiched on with heat transfer numbers.

 

This is Kelly in 86, also last year of the blue facemask, and that number plate is stitched on.

Looking at this, I just had another potential thought.

 

That jersey and looking at a lot of other pics of Kelly from 1986, the part where the numbers are is practically mesh, especially compared to the shoulders and sleeves.  Makes me wonder if they still had some of those type of jerseys (which would have the box 2 on them) while new jerseys were at the bottom of the pile, waiting to be used when the older ones were no longer salvageable.

 

If they just got jerseys in bulk and then stitched the names and numbers on as needed, it could be that they used the rest of the old 2's up and then switched the the new one, as someone said earlier.  Probably didn't help that there was a strike in the middle of the 87 season.  Maybe some of the replacement players kept their jerseys, thus forcing the team to get some new ones on short notice?

[947]

I have an autographed framed Kelly jersey that is the Mitchell & Ness version with the "block" 2 number. The strange thing is that it has small game photos of Kelly in each of the 4 corners of the frame, and he's wearing jerseys with the regular 2 in all of them. I remember looking it up when I noticed & came to the conclusion that Mitchell & Ness just must've been lazy.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

That is wild - email a question to the Bills - to someone who was there back then, like Denny Lynch - maybe he could get an answer for you.  Wow!  Very observant!

[WotAGuy]

That was back when Ralph was getting the jerseys off DHgate.com. 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

The grassy knoll strikes again.  Now that’s one magic loogie.

 

 

Back and to the left, back and to the left…

 

There had to be a 2nd spitter, from the gravely road.

I thought you'd like that one Chevy.  You can never go wrong with a Seinfeld bit.

[BLeonard]

15 minutes ago, Ned Flanders said:

I also obsess over this stuff and found that Mitchell and Ness and Ebbets Field Flannels are often times lazy in their depiction of throwback gear.

 

Also, in the late 80s, early 90s, some players had the "TV" numbers on the shoulders, while others had them on the sleeves.  Jamie Mueller and Flip Johnson come to mind.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I know most people will say "who cares?" but sometimes, to some people, the details matter.  I mean, I'm not even a Yankees fan, but it just looks wrong seeing a Babe Ruth jersey with the name "RUTH" on the back.  Now, I never saw him play live (obviously) and his number was retired more than a quarter century before I was born.  But, again, it just looks wrong.

 

I guess I noticed the thing with the TV numbers on shoulders, but I assumed that they were up there if the player had big-ass shoulder pads, like Mueller, where it looks like the numbers wouldn't be seen if they were on the sleeves.  Certainly not the case with Flip Johnson, though.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Gene the Anal-Rentetive Chef!

 

One of my all-time fave SNL characters.

 

[Wayne Cubed]

41 minutes ago, BLeonard said:

Looking at this, I just had another potential thought.

 

That jersey and looking at a lot of other pics of Kelly from 1986, the part where the numbers are is practically mesh, especially compared to the shoulders and sleeves.  Makes me wonder if they still had some of those type of jerseys (which would have the box 2 on them) while new jerseys were at the bottom of the pile, waiting to be used when the older ones were no longer salvageable.

 

If they just got jerseys in bulk and then stitched the names and numbers on as needed, it could be that they used the rest of the old 2's up and then switched the the new one, as someone said earlier.  Probably didn't help that there was a strike in the middle of the 87 season.  Maybe some of the replacement players kept their jerseys, thus forcing the team to get some new ones on short notice?

 

It wouldn't suprise me, from 87-00 the jerseys didn't really change, looks wise, home or away. The stripes on the sleeves changed in 85-86, then didn't change again until the Bills jersey revamp in 00. It's entirely possible they had mixed jerseys out on the field. This was before the NFL had official sponsors and I mean, Ralph is cheap.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Whkfc said:

Honestly I never noticed this watching the games back then and a curious to know the answer.

Same.

[BLeonard]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

You should send this over to Paul Lukas of UniWatch. He loves this kind of stuff. uni-watch.com

Sent them an email.  Be interesting to see if they have an answer... Or a job offer, lol