A Few Thoughts About the Ravens Game, in no particular order

[Virgil]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

1 - Stadium Experience - Living in Baltimore made attending this game a no-brainer.  I recently discovered a light rail that comes every 10-20 and is $4 round trip.  Considering most parking is $40+ and traffic can be terrible, this made the experience so much better than in the past.  I was well prepared with rain gear, so I didn't get noticed as a Bills fan much.  Those who did notice, didn't seem to care.  I was surprised to see how much the threat of rain hurt attendance.  Tickets for lower bowl were $400 a week prior, but down to almost $75 on game day.  The upper deck was half full, and that may be generous.  In our section, we had some guys who tailgated a bit too hard, and watching the range of emotion on them as the game transpired was entertaining in itself.  I do appreciate the large hallways where the food is, but can't understand how an Italian Sausage is $5 less than in Buffalo.  They also do a great job of representing local restaurants in the stadium.  $16 for a tall cider is a bit much though.  From a game flow perspective, I was surprised when I saw the box score at home.  Obviously, we shut them out in the second half and came all the way back, but it felt like Lamar had way more yards in the second half than he did.  It really felt like the Ravens were going to put it away at any moment, but couldn't finish

 

2 - Questions - Not my normal format, but people don't typically read these whole things, so might as well ask now.  On the very first drive with the INT, who's fault was that?  From the replay I saw, the ball may have been tipped AND it went through Knox's hands.  Is that correct?   Also, on the Lamar scramble for the first down that was reviewed and called a yard short, did he not get the ball past the sticks?  It was really tough to see what was going on for some of these plays and the replays in the stadium were less than stellar.

 

3 - Take away their favorite Toy - In typical Hoodie 🤢fashion, the Bills have done a great job of shutting down the opposing teams favorite weapon.  Against the Dolphins, Hill was non-existent.  In this game, you almost never heard Mark Andrews name get called.  I was worried about him having a big day against us as I didn't know who was possibly going to cover him.  At times, it was comical to see TJ follow him around because of the size difference.  Overall, while the defense did a great job in coverage with everyone, I was surprised to see how little Lamar even targeted Andrews.  I saw a lot of post game comments about how the Bills D threw out a lot of confusing looks, but still.  Just a great job with making Andrews a non-factor.

 

4 - Lately, I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to sympathize when no one gave a damn?
I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to wanna try?

 

5 - Refs - I promise, I will get to the good stuff soon, but holy crap were these guys terrible.  I'm going to have to watch the replay of this game to make sure I'm not crazy, but there were a bunch of calls I saw on the screen that looks like they missed.  However, the lack of holding calls against the the Ravens OT's was insane.  There were multiple times where you could see the Bills DE being dragged to the ground, holding up their other arm, and getting their jerseys spun around.  It was really, REALLY bad.  I don't know how these weren't called and it was beyond "letting them play."

 

6 - Receivers - I know the ball was wet and we cleaned it up a bunch in the second half.  Seriously, Diggs, Shakir, and Knox all made beautiful sideline catches during the comeback.  However, I am getting really concerned with Knox and Davis.  It seems like both didn't commit to some catches, tried making body catches, or just got physically outplayed by the defender.  Similar to last year, Davis appears to be hurt and he's a mere shell of himself out there.  It's to the point where he might be better resting, as he doesn't seem to pose a threat at all.  Knox, I have no idea what's going on there.  I get that we are using him to block a lot, but still.  I don't get the contract if this is how we are going to use him.  I know Josh has a lot of faith in him, but from my seats, Knox killed that first drive.  With injuries as they are, and I'm not a trade guy, but I wonder if Beane should be making calls.  I heard someone mention DJ Moore from Carolina as a target and I think he'd be perfect here.  I don't think we can rely on OBJ bouncing back, maintaining his form, and learning the offense quick enough to be a real factor this season.

 

 7- Interior Defensive Line - Was anyone else concerned at the massive holes being opened up down the middle by the Ravens offensive line?  I knew our pass rush up the middle would suffer without Oliver and Phillips, but I figured Settle and Jones would be able to take up space.  There were a few plays were it was like the red sea parted.  We were useless on short yardage rushing situations (again, until when it mattered in the end).  Just a minor concern here, but noticeable.  I can't wait to get Jordan and Ed back.

 

8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw.  Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems.  After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity.  Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible.  I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks.  But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down.  There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing.  Where's the jet sweep?  Where's the toss play?  Where's anything else?  The Chiefs right now are scary on offense because they are finding a rushing attack that you have to respect.  Right now, I don't know if we could run the ball if the defense only had 3 in the box.

 

9 - The Tampa Affect - As we came back in this game, all I could think about was the Bucs game from last year.  The Bills were a shell of their former selves that season and couldn't really get anything going until halftime at the Bucs game.  While we didn't win that game, our offense finally woke up and we were a different team after.  Granted, I thought we'd come out swinging after the Dolphins loss, but I was insta-depressed to see the same crappy execution in the first quarter of this game.  The Ravens seemed faster, hit harder, and actually wanted to be on the field.  We gave up another short field turnover and were down 20-3 early.  However, we have Josh and that man doesn't go down easily.  To see this team pull themselves back together and execute at the level they did...Wow.  It wasn't an explosive performance nor all at once.  It almost felt like the Patriots Superbowl comeback, slow and steady.  Either way, just an amazing job by the defense to mostly keep Lamar contained (Seriously, what was the spy plan?)  Poyer continues to earn more money on that extension.  And many guys made the most of their opportunities; I'm looking at you Hamlin and Shakir.  Hopefuly, this will carry over into our next game, we can get up by 21 so Cook can get more carries and confidence.  I'm sorry, but he's just killing me right now for a 2nd round pick.  He played at Georgia, this shouldn't be too much for him.

 

10 - The Boys - There were moments when I wanted to walk onto the field an punch Edmunds in the face for running into blocks as if he got a bonus from it.  However, those moments weren't nearly as outstanding as the positive plays.  For a team that doesn't blitz, we sent our guys a few times and Edmunds was able to make some great plays in the backfield, solo even.  The blitzing didn't always hit home, and Lamar had way too much time and escape routes sometimes, but you can't argue with the end result.  Edmunds made some great tackles, covered the middle of the field well, and really is turning in some nice consecutive games.  Milano was just a stud.  I don't think he was fully healthy last year, because he was FAST out there.  Milano was a wrecking ball out there at times and should have had another interception on a really bizarre play.  I can't give enough credit to what this defense did, and the linebackers were a huge part of it.

 

11 - Bonus Random thoughts:

• The Ravens played mainly man cover-2 against us in the first half.  In the second, they adjusted to more of a Cover 1 at times.  While they had more guys in the box, that's when we started moving the ball a lot more.  It shouldn't work that way, but it did.  I love being able to see the whole field when at games, just to watch the coverages.  For the Bills, Lamar has proven he likes to throw deep down the middle, and we didn't give him that chance all game.  It was impressive how much we kept them to short field plays
• Holding aside, Von and Groot were non-stop in this game and I expect more 7 sack games once Ed and Jordan are back.  Watching Lamar get swarmed at times felt great.  On Lamar's last interception, it was like a wall of defenders coming at him that only allowed him to back peddle and make a poor throw.
• I was able to see the replay when I got home, but it didn't do this play justice. The sideline throw to Knox in the 4th was absolutely amazing.  Josh was on his back foot and put that ball on a perfect trajectory to Knox.  Seeing it live, my mouth dropped open.  For those there, please tell me you saw the same thing
• Special teams has to get a game ball for all facets of their play.  In wet conditions, they were perfect and a difference maker
• Before you gang up on me, Josh is Josh.  He doesn't need a thought every single week.  He was a little off again on crossing routes, but really pulled it together on the comeback.  Seeing the Ravens fans get quieted by some of Josh's runs was hysterical.  The Bills fans in my section kept saying "Yeah, we got one of them too."
• The conversation of when it's appropriate to stand really hit in this game.  In the lower section, we were the only area standing almost the entire game.  Why?  Because of 5 Bills fans.  A pair of 2 in one row, and a group of 3 in another refused to sit down, making everyone behind them have to stand to see the field.  I was embarrassed by them, as they didn't seem to care about their surroundings at all.  I get big plays and whatnot, but when you are literally the only people standing around you, read the room.

 

Go Bills!

[GoBills808]

You really don't understand LB play at all

[Big Turk]

Did you have too many ciders in the second half?  Lol!

 

Ravens only had 1 drive in the 2nd half that gained more than 23 yards, their final one that went 14 plays and 93 yards...the other 3 drives were 3 plays for -5, 5 plays for 18 and 7 plays for 23.  Their 2nd half possessions were Punt, Punt, INT, INT.

 

In terms of question #2, I am not sure it was really anyone's "fault" per se, it was just a good play by the Ravens...Calais Campbell tipped the ball at the LOS which sent it slightly off trajectory and Humphrey came off Diggs to make a play on the ball that was off-line.  

Edited October 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[BillsFanSD]

I wonder if Ravens fans are thinking that we have their number on critical goal-to-go situations.

 

In the playoff game a couple of years ago, it looked like they were about to tie the game just as the third quarter came to an end.  Instead, they got the single worst possible result imaginable -- a pick-6 that more or less ended the game.  

 

Yesterday was pretty much the same.  On 4th down, a pick-6 actually wasn't the worst result imaginable -- in that case, at least Baltimore would have gotten the ball back with a solid chance to tie it up and force OT.  The worst imaginable result was a turnover that gave us a touchback instead of starting at the 4 yard line, followed by a clock-killing drive that ends the game without them ever getting the ball back, and that's exactly what happened.

 

I have a feeling we'd be talking about that if the shoe was on the other foot.

[Virgil]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You really don't understand LB play at all

 

I understand freeing up space, assuming protections, and possum blocks enough to know that you don't run directly into a blocker who is clearly coming to the next level for you.  He overall did great, but still had a few plays where he allowed himself to disappear from the play completely. 

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Did you have too many ciders in the second half?  Lol!

 

Ravens only had 1 drive in the 2nd half that gained more than 23 yards, their final one that went 14 plays and 93 yards...the other 3 drives were 3 plays for -5, 5 plays for 18 and 7 plays for 23.  Their 2nd half possessions were Punt, Punt, INT, INT.

 

That's why I said it felt that way, even though they didn't do anything.  The time of possession for the Ravens really threw me off.  Made it feel different than it was

[BuffaloBillies]

Regarding your questions...

 

Ball was tipped near the line of scrimmage and Knox made a very strange effort at it. Maybe the tip had him leaning one way and was trying to lean back the other way - but wasn't a very good looking play for him trying to adjust.

 

Lamar's was close, and depended on your interpretation of exactly when/where you spot the ball when flying out of bounds. I think he probably had it, but glad they didn't overturn.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said:

I wonder if Ravens fans are thinking that we have their number on critical goal-to-go situations.

 

In the playoff game a couple of years ago, it looked like they were about to tie the game just as the third quarter came to an end.  Instead, they got the single worst possible result imaginable -- a pick-6 that more or less ended the game.  

 

Yesterday was pretty much the same.  On 4th down, a pick-6 actually wasn't the worst result imaginable -- in that case, at least Baltimore would have gotten the ball back with a solid chance to tie it up and force OT.  The worst imaginable result was a turnover that gave us a touchback instead of starting at the 4 yard line, followed by a clock-killing drive that ends the game without them ever getting the ball back, and that's exactly what happened.

 

I have a feeling we'd be talking about that if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

It was hilarious when you watch the replay of the Singletary run as everyone except one player on the Baltimore D was on the same page to let him score...in fact the one Raven defender let Singletary go by him and actually gave him a push towards the end zone, then the guy came over to tackle him and you see Campbell I believe putting his hands to his head in disbelief after the tackle as if to say "Bro, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?"

 

Singletary appeared to go down on his own as well tho, so I am pretty sure he was not trying to score, he kinda turtled when the guy came to tackle him instead of trying to drive through it.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

I understand freeing up space, assuming protections, and possum blocks enough to know that you don't run directly into a blocker who is clearly coming to the next level for you.  He overall did great, but still had a few plays where he allowed himself to disappear from the play completely. 

I'm sure you enjoyed the Milano tfl on the goal line. That's only possible because Edmunds does his job meeting the lead blocker in the hole and forcing the bounce outside.

[Don Otreply]

Thanks, nice read as usual, and sadly some folk don’t know how to act in public, it’s even worse when it’s our own tribe…, 

[Big Turk]

On the last INT it was Shaq who ended up forcing it by literally powering through a hold that wasn't called to get in his face and then was joined by the other defender from the right(Groot maybe).  

 

Without Shaq, Jackson has an easy escape to his left and likely walks into the endzone

Honestly, I don't really think a spy works on Jackson...he is simply too fast and can just run away from the player spying on him.

[Einstein]

Yes it was tipped. 
 

It was actually the 2nd tip (Knox’s tip) that put the ball right into the defenders hands.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Einstein

[HoofHearted]

24 minutes ago, Virgil said:

8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw.  Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems.  After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity.  Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible.  I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks.  But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down.  There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing.  Where's the jet sweep?  Where's the toss play?  Where's anything else?  The Chiefs right now are scary on offense because they are finding a rushing attack that you have to respect.  Right now, I don't know if we could run the ball if the defense only had 3 in the box.

 

What were some of the concepts we ran and why were they not creative? It's hard to take the word of someone saying we're not creative when the concepts are described as "shotgun runs up the middle".

[Bob in STL]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

1 - Stadium Experience - Living in Baltimore made attending this game a no-brainer.  I recently discovered a light rail that comes every 10-20 and is $4 round trip.  Considering most parking is $40+ and traffic can be terrible, this made the experience so much better than in the past.  I was well prepared with rain gear, so I didn't get noticed as a Bills fan much.  Those who did notice, didn't seem to care.  I was surprised to see how much the threat of rain hurt attendance.  Tickets for lower bowl were $400 a week prior, but down to almost $75 on game day.  The upper deck was half full, and that may be generous.  In our section, we had some guys who tailgated a bit too hard, and watching the range of emotion on them as the game transpired was entertaining in itself.  I do appreciate the large hallways where the food is, but can't understand how an Italian Sausage is $5 less than in Buffalo.  They also do a great job of representing local restaurants in the stadium.  $16 for a tall cider is a bit much though.  From a game flow perspective, I was surprised when I saw the box score at home.  Obviously, we shut them out in the second half and came all the way back, but it felt like Lamar had way more yards in the second half than he did.  It really felt like the Ravens were going to put it away at any moment, but couldn't finish

 

2 - Questions - Not my normal format, but people don't typically read these whole things, so might as well ask now.  On the very first drive with the INT, who's fault was that?  From the replay I saw, the ball may have been tipped AND it went through Knox's hands.  Is that correct?   Also, on the Lamar scramble for the first down that was reviewed and called a yard short, did he not get the ball past the sticks?  It was really tough to see what was going on for some of these plays and the replays in the stadium were less than stellar.

 

3 - Take away their favorite Toy - In typical Hoodie 🤢fashion, the Bills have done a great job of shutting down the opposing teams favorite weapon.  Against the Dolphins, Hill was non-existent.  In this game, you almost never heard Mark Andrews name get called.  I was worried about him having a big day against us as I didn't know who was possibly going to cover him.  At times, it was comical to see TJ follow him around because of the size difference.  Overall, while the defense did a great job in coverage with everyone, I was surprised to see how little Lamar even targeted Andrews.  I saw a lot of post game comments about how the Bills D threw out a lot of confusing looks, but still.  Just a great job with making Andrews a non-factor.

 

4 - Lately, I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to sympathize when no one gave a damn?
I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to wanna try?

 

5 - Refs - I promise, I will get to the good stuff soon, but holy crap were these guys terrible.  I'm going to have to watch the replay of this game to make sure I'm not crazy, but there were a bunch of calls I saw on the screen that looks like they missed.  However, the lack of holding calls against the the Ravens OT's was insane.  There were multiple times where you could see the Bills DE being dragged to the ground, holding up their other arm, and getting their jerseys spun around.  It was really, REALLY bad.  I don't know how these weren't called and it was beyond "letting them play."

 

6 - Receivers - I know the ball was wet and we cleaned it up a bunch in the second half.  Seriously, Diggs, Shakir, and Knox all made beautiful sideline catches during the comeback.  However, I am getting really concerned with Knox and Davis.  It seems like both didn't commit to some catches, tried making body catches, or just got physically outplayed by the defender.  Similar to last year, Davis appears to be hurt and he's a mere shell of himself out there.  It's to the point where he might be better resting, as he doesn't seem to pose a threat at all.  Knox, I have no idea what's going on there.  I get that we are using him to block a lot, but still.  I don't get the contract if this is how we are going to use him.  I know Josh has a lot of faith in him, but from my seats, Knox killed that first drive.  With injuries as they are, and I'm not a trade guy, but I wonder if Beane should be making calls.  I heard someone mention DJ Moore from Carolina as a target and I think he'd be perfect here.  I don't think we can rely on OBJ bouncing back, maintaining his form, and learning the offense quick enough to be a real factor this season.

 

 7- Interior Defensive Line - Was anyone else concerned at the massive holes being opened up down the middle by the Ravens offensive line?  I knew our pass rush up the middle would suffer without Oliver and Phillips, but I figured Settle and Jones would be able to take up space.  There were a few plays were it was like the red sea parted.  We were useless on short yardage rushing situations (again, until when it mattered in the end).  Just a minor concern here, but noticeable.  I can't wait to get Jordan and Ed back.

 

8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw.  Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems.  After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity.  Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible.  I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks.  But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down.  There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing.  Where's the jet sweep?  Where's the toss play?  Where's anything else?  The Chiefs right now are scary on offense because they are finding a rushing attack that you have to respect.  Right now, I don't know if we could run the ball if the defense only had 3 in the box.

 

9 - The Tampa Affect - As we came back in this game, all I could think about was the Bucs game from last year.  The Bills were a shell of their former selves that season and couldn't really get anything going until halftime at the Bucs game.  While we didn't win that game, our offense finally woke up and we were a different team after.  Granted, I thought we'd come out swinging after the Dolphins loss, but I was insta-depressed to see the same crappy execution in the first quarter of this game.  The Ravens seemed faster, hit harder, and actually wanted to be on the field.  We gave up another short field turnover and were down 20-3 early.  However, we have Josh and that man doesn't go down easily.  To see this team pull themselves back together and execute at the level they did...Wow.  It wasn't an explosive performance nor all at once.  It almost felt like the Patriots Superbowl comeback, slow and steady.  Either way, just an amazing job by the defense to mostly keep Lamar contained (Seriously, what was the spy plan?)  Poyer continues to earn more money on that extension.  And many guys made the most of their opportunities; I'm looking at you Hamlin and Shakir.  Hopefuly, this will carry over into our next game, we can get up by 21 so Cook can get more carries and confidence.  I'm sorry, but he's just killing me right now for a 2nd round pick.  He played at Georgia, this shouldn't be too much for him.

 

10 - The Boys - There were moments when I wanted to walk onto the field an punch Edmunds in the face for running into blocks as if he got a bonus from it.  However, those moments weren't nearly as outstanding as the positive plays.  For a team that doesn't blitz, we sent our guys a few times and Edmunds was able to make some great plays in the backfield, solo even.  The blitzing didn't always hit home, and Lamar had way too much time and escape routes sometimes, but you can't argue with the end result.  Edmunds made some great tackles, covered the middle of the field well, and really is turning in some nice consecutive games.  Milano was just a stud.  I don't think he was fully healthy last year, because he was FAST out there.  Milano was a wrecking ball out there at times and should have had another interception on a really bizarre play.  I can't give enough credit to what this defense did, and the linebackers were a huge part of it.

 

11 - Bonus Random thoughts:

• The Ravens played mainly man cover-2 against us in the first half.  In the second, they adjusted to more of a Cover 1 at times.  While they had more guys in the box, that's when we started moving the ball a lot more.  It shouldn't work that way, but it did.  I love being able to see the whole field when at games, just to watch the coverages.  For the Bills, Lamar has proven he likes to throw deep down the middle, and we didn't give him that chance all game.  It was impressive how much we kept them to short field plays
• Holding aside, Von and Groot were non-stop in this game and I expect more 7 sack games once Ed and Jordan are back.  Watching Lamar get swarmed at times felt great.  On Lamar's last interception, it was like a wall of defenders coming at him that only allowed him to back peddle and make a poor throw.
• I was able to see the replay when I got home, but it didn't do this play justice. The sideline throw to Knox in the 4th was absolutely amazing.  Josh was on his back foot and put that ball on a perfect trajectory to Knox.  Seeing it live, my mouth dropped open.  For those there, please tell me you saw the same thing
• Special teams has to get a game ball for all facets of their play.  In wet conditions, they were perfect and a difference maker
• Before you gang up on me, Josh is Josh.  He doesn't need a thought every single week.  He was a little off again on crossing routes, but really pulled it together on the comeback.  Seeing the Ravens fans get quieted by some of Josh's runs was hysterical.  The Bills fans in my section kept saying "Yeah, we got one of them too."
• The conversation of when it's appropriate to stand really hit in this game.  In the lower section, we were the only area standing almost the entire game.  Why?  Because of 5 Bills fans.  A pair of 2 in one row, and a group of 3 in another refused to sit down, making everyone behind them have to stand to see the field.  I was embarrassed by them, as they didn't seem to care about their surroundings at all.  I get big plays and whatnot, but when you are literally the only people standing around you, read the room.

 

Go Bills!

The first INT was tipped.  Knox had to adjust and missed the catch and then the DB intercepted.  You can blame Knox but I wouldn't.  The Ravens made two great plays. 

 

Lamar was ruled short of the first down,  the replay could not dispute the call on the field -it was close.  Plays like this happen every game. 

 

Knox and Davis are banged up.  Knox made a few big plays.  

 

Settle and Jones have been excellent and really help to keep blockers off of Milano and Edmund (like Star was supposed to do).  Jones has been a steady stud that shows up every game.  We are not going to make every play, every time.  Especially short yardage defense against Lamar.  

 

The run play calling was NOT terrible.  The run blocking was indeed terrible and the runners were getting hit two yards deep in the backfield.  Like last year, we have mediocre interior OL that gets no push.  

 

Other teams actually have some good players and we are not going to win every game 41-7.  Our TD on the opening drive streak ended.  It could not last forever.  

 

Cook is a mystery.   He better work harder than he does.  

 

Edmund was excellent again.  Punch him in the face at your own risk.  

 

Sounds like you did not really enjoy being at the game and watching a come from behind win, in adverse conditions, on the road. 

 

It is all about the W.    

[billsfan_34]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You really don't understand LB play at all

Virgil does great work here! None of us are perfect… perhaps you can do better next week? Personally, I enjoy reading his well thought out posts after the game.

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Honestly, I don't really think a spy works on Jackson...he is simply too fast and can just run away from the player spying on him.

 

You're right.

 

They tried having Edmunds spy Lamar on a key 3rd down and Lamar just blew right by him. He's just too fast.

 

5 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

The first INT was tipped.  Knox had to adjust and missed the catch and then the DB intercepted.  You can blame Knox but I wouldn't.  The Ravens made two great plays. 

 

I think you may want to watch the play again (its tweeted above). Knox didn't really adjust at all. The ball tipped off his hand and right into the defenders arms. Wasn't a great play by the defender, he just kinda got lucky being in the right spot.

 

.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Einstein

[TheBrownBear]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Yes it was tipped. 
 

It was actually the 2nd tip (Knox’s tip) that put the ball right into the defenders hands.

 

 

After seeing that, I'm less inclined to give Knox grief about his effort.  He was clearly going into jump and body catch (protect the ball) mode right as Campbell tipped that ball.  After that, it was like trying to hit a knuckleball.  Think the ball just fluttered away from him.  That was just a good play by Campbell and Humphrey.  It happens.

[Virgil]

12 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

What were some of the concepts we ran and why were they not creative? It's hard to take the word of someone saying we're not creative when the concepts are described as "shotgun runs up the middle".

I mean, what don’t you understand.  Would RPO out of the shotgun paint a better pic for you?

 

Shotgun, 12 personnel, run handoff up the middle….

[mrags]

31 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I understand freeing up space, assuming protections, and possum blocks enough to know that you don't run directly into a blocker who is clearly coming to the next level for you.  He overall did great, but still had a few plays where he allowed himself to disappear from the play completely. 

This is where I’m at Virgil. I will agree that Edmunds has been very good this year. This is also the story for most of his career as well. 
 

but it’s not the things he does well. It’s the few times you clearly see him not playing well. Getting swallowed up by blocks, taking bad angles, attacking the wrong gaps. And most of all, his lack of “splash” plays. Plays that you would expect out of your “pro bowl” middle LB. 
 

overall he has been very good. I just wish I didn’t see some of those negative plays. Especially in critical situations and that happens all too often. Almost like he is being singled out. 

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

What were some of the concepts we ran and why were they not creative? It's hard to take the word of someone saying we're not creative when the concepts are described as "shotgun runs up the middle".

 

Post more please

[HoofHearted]

12 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I mean, what don’t you understand.  Would RPO out of the shotgun paint a better pic for you?

 

Shotgun, 12 personnel, run handoff up the middle….

No, Inside Zone, Counter, Power, Duo, ISO, etc. That would paint a better picture for me.

[Bob in STL]

22 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

I think you may want to watch the play again (its tweeted above). Knox didn't really adjust at all. The ball tipped off his hand and right into the defenders arms. Wasn't a great play by the defender, he just kinda got lucky being in the right spot.

 

.

I said Knox had to adjust. I did not say he adjusted.  The tip threw him off.  

 

It was a great play by the defender to pick up the ball in mid air and make the catch.   Ravens players made two nice plays and got the pick.  Most turnovers have some element of luck.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 - As others have mentioned, Campbell deflected the throw at the line. Knox then reacted poorly to the fluttering ball (the body language kinda looked like he gave up on the play, but I'm thinking that was just his best reaction to the tip). 

Baltimore's challenge - I thought Jackson probably had it, but there's no definitive angle so they didn't overturn it. Refs almost always give a runner the first down when they stretch the ball out like that so I was quite surprised by the initial spot. 

 

5 - Totally agree that the officiating was a shitshow. The refs ended up calling 2 holding penalties on the Ravens, but it should've been about 10. At least 5 offensive plays with a blatant uncalled hold. I thought the Ravens OPI call was actually a makeup for some of the missed calls

[Low Positive]

58 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Regarding your questions...

 

Ball was tipped near the line of scrimmage and Knox made a very strange effort at it. Maybe the tip had him leaning one way and was trying to lean back the other way - but wasn't a very good looking play for him trying to adjust.

 

Lamar's was close, and depended on your interpretation of exactly when/where you spot the ball when flying out of bounds. I think he probably had it, but glad they didn't overturn.

The Ravens picked up that first on the very next play, so it had no impact on the outcome of the game.

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Did you have too many ciders in the second half?  Lol!

 

Ravens only had 1 drive in the 2nd half that gained more than 23 yards, their final one that went 14 plays and 93 yards...the other 3 drives were 3 plays for -5, 5 plays for 18 and 7 plays for 23.  Their 2nd half possessions were Punt, Punt, INT, INT.

 

In terms of question #2, I am not sure it was really anyone's "fault" per se, it was just a good play by the Ravens...Calais Campbell tipped the ball at the LOS which sent it slightly off trajectory and Humphrey came off Diggs to make a play on the ball that was off-line.  

It probably didn't feel that way live. 

[LABILLBACKER]

There were several tipped balls in that game. Our OL has to do a better job of engaging the Dlineman if they see they're laying back waiting to jump/deflect. Bates made that mistake a couple times. The last 2 turnovers that were immediately converted to tds were OL breakdowns. 

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm sure you enjoyed the Milano tfl on the goal line. That's only possible because Edmunds does his job meeting the lead blocker in the hole and forcing the bounce outside.

How are you going to psychologically deal with life when Edmunds is not on this team next year?

[mushypeaches]

Virgil - really appreciate the analysis of the game, especially insightful since I was also there in person.

 

We had a bunch of us make the drive down from Harrisburg PA - the tailgate with Thurman & Andre was a blast and well worth the $$

 

All day, we pretty much couldn't believe how the Ravens fans basically let us take over their stadium.  I get that the weather wasn't picture perfect, but the stadium was maybe 60-65% full, and at least 10-15K of those were Bills fans.  We were everywhere.

 

Our seats were in the very last row of the upper deck and most of our immediate area was all Bills fans.  There was a hilariously obnoxious Ravens fan who taunted us mercilessly in the first half, then got spectacularly drunk and tried to pick fights.  Fortunately, his buddy recognized the sea of blue & red around him and escorted him out by about midway through the 4th

 

The stadium is a really good venue - wide concourses, friendly staff and vendors.  But the fans just don't seem to show up - which boggles my freaking mind given how successful that team has been the past 20+ years.  Their attempts at making noise were frankly pathetic, the stadium announcer was a joke.  It's like they've had 25 years now to build up a fan base and a culture, they've won two SB's and it's still "meh"

 

Makes me count my blessings to be a part of such a great fanbase.  There's nothing like the Mafia

[Virgil]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There were several tipped balls in that game. Our OL has to do a better job of engaging the Dlineman if they see they're laying back waiting to jump/deflect. Bates made that mistake a couple times. The last 2 turnovers that were immediately converted to tds were OL breakdowns. 

How are you going to psychologically deal with life when Edmunds is not on this team next year?

Was Lamar’s first pick to Poyer tipped?  It looked like Lamar threw it into the back of one of his own lineman

[Beast]

On Poyer’s 2nd INT. Shaq Lawson being mugged.

[Virgil]

32 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

No, Inside Zone, Counter, Power, Duo, ISO, etc. That would paint a better picture for me.

Yes, I play Madden too.  People get the gist of what’s being said.  That’s not what I do here. 
 

If you a better picture, watch the game 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Was Lamar’s first pick to Poyer tipped?  It looked like Lamar threw it into the back of one of his own lineman

It hit Prince Emili. I don't know if it was tipped or it just hit him, but he caused the INT.

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Yes, I play Madden too.  People get the gist of what’s being said.  That’s not what I do here. 
 

If you a better picture, watch the game 

I see that I've pushed a button with you. I was genuinely interested in having a scheme conversation with you on why you think our run schemes are not very creative. If you don't know it's okay to admit that and we can discuss some of the stuff you saw if you have clips/highlights.

Edited October 3, 2022 by HoofHearted

[ILBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

 

3 - Take away their favorite Toy - In typical Hoodie 🤢fashion, the Bills have done a great job of shutting down the opposing teams favorite weapon.  Against the Dolphins, Hill was non-existent.  In this game, you almost never heard Mark Andrews name get called.  I was worried about him having a big day against us as I didn't know who was possibly going to cover him.  At times, it was comical to see TJ follow him around because of the size difference.  Overall, while the defense did a great job in coverage with everyone, I was surprised to see how little Lamar even targeted Andrews.  I saw a lot of post game comments about how the Bills D threw out a lot of confusing looks, but still.  Just a great job with making Andrews a non-factor.

 

 

 

Go Bills!

This is key tpo see the Bills ***** this and was also my big concern coming in knowing had bad in previous years the Bills have been at covering the TE.  Limiting Andrews was nice to see and hoepfully eliviates my concerns on covering TE's moving forward

[CNYfan]

The things that I think that may not have been touched upon sufficiently are:

                        Hamlin over Johnson (which I agree with)

                        Shaq #90 played very well

                        

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Regarding your questions...

 

Ball was tipped near the line of scrimmage and Knox made a very strange effort at it. Maybe the tip had him leaning one way and was trying to lean back the other way - but wasn't a very good looking play for him trying to adjust.

 

Lamar's was close, and depended on your interpretation of exactly when/where you spot the ball when flying out of bounds. I think he probably had it, but glad they didn't overturn.

It looked to me like because it was tipped and off target, Knox thought it was intended for someone else.  So he started for it but stopped thinking, "No I don't want to deflect a ball headed for x."  Not sure who it was but there was another receiver close by.

[GoBills808]

24 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There were several tipped balls in that game. Our OL has to do a better job of engaging the Dlineman if they see they're laying back waiting to jump/deflect. Bates made that mistake a couple times. The last 2 turnovers that were immediately converted to tds were OL breakdowns. 

How are you going to psychologically deal with life when Edmunds is not on this team next year?

I'm guessing I'll psychologically deal with life just fine regardless.

[Dukestreetking]

Not sure where to put this but, seems to me, Elam not getting his props:

 

Kaiir Elam vs Ravens:

 

43 coverage snaps

1 target 0 receptions allowed

 

The Bills rookie CB was LOCKDOWN.

 

(Twitter: NFL rookie watch)

[Last Guy on the Bench]

8 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

It looked to me like because it was tipped and off target, Knox thought it was intended for someone else.  So he started for it but stopped thinking, "No I don't want to deflect a ball headed for x."  Not sure who it was but there was another receiver close by.

Agreed. I thought Knox pulled away from the ball on purpose. Wasn't that other receiver Diggs? I'm not even sure that Josh wasn't throwing to him - he was just past the first down marker, if I recall. Hard to tell where he was throwing, given the tip. Weird play all around.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

1 - Stadium Experience - Living in Baltimore made attending this game a no-brainer.  I recently discovered a light rail that comes every 10-20 and is $4 round trip.  Considering most parking is $40+ and traffic can be terrible, this made the experience so much better than in the past.  I was well prepared with rain gear, so I didn't get noticed as a Bills fan much.  Those who did notice, didn't seem to care.  I was surprised to see how much the threat of rain hurt attendance.  Tickets for lower bowl were $400 a week prior, but down to almost $75 on game day.  The upper deck was half full, and that may be generous.  In our section, we had some guys who tailgated a bit too hard, and watching the range of emotion on them as the game transpired was entertaining in itself.  I do appreciate the large hallways where the food is, but can't understand how an Italian Sausage is $5 less than in Buffalo.  They also do a great job of representing local restaurants in the stadium.  $16 for a tall cider is a bit much though.  From a game flow perspective, I was surprised when I saw the box score at home.  Obviously, we shut them out in the second half and came all the way back, but it felt like Lamar had way more yards in the second half than he did.  It really felt like the Ravens were going to put it away at any moment, but couldn't finish

 

2 - Questions - Not my normal format, but people don't typically read these whole things, so might as well ask now.  On the very first drive with the INT, who's fault was that?  From the replay I saw, the ball may have been tipped AND it went through Knox's hands.  Is that correct?   Also, on the Lamar scramble for the first down that was reviewed and called a yard short, did he not get the ball past the sticks?  It was really tough to see what was going on for some of these plays and the replays in the stadium were less than stellar.

 

3 - Take away their favorite Toy - In typical Hoodie 🤢fashion, the Bills have done a great job of shutting down the opposing teams favorite weapon.  Against the Dolphins, Hill was non-existent.  In this game, you almost never heard Mark Andrews name get called.  I was worried about him having a big day against us as I didn't know who was possibly going to cover him.  At times, it was comical to see TJ follow him around because of the size difference.  Overall, while the defense did a great job in coverage with everyone, I was surprised to see how little Lamar even targeted Andrews.  I saw a lot of post game comments about how the Bills D threw out a lot of confusing looks, but still.  Just a great job with making Andrews a non-factor.

 

4 - Lately, I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to sympathize when no one gave a damn?
I've been thinking it's just someone else's job to care
Who am I to wanna try?

 

5 - Refs - I promise, I will get to the good stuff soon, but holy crap were these guys terrible.  I'm going to have to watch the replay of this game to make sure I'm not crazy, but there were a bunch of calls I saw on the screen that looks like they missed.  However, the lack of holding calls against the the Ravens OT's was insane.  There were multiple times where you could see the Bills DE being dragged to the ground, holding up their other arm, and getting their jerseys spun around.  It was really, REALLY bad.  I don't know how these weren't called and it was beyond "letting them play."

 

6 - Receivers - I know the ball was wet and we cleaned it up a bunch in the second half.  Seriously, Diggs, Shakir, and Knox all made beautiful sideline catches during the comeback.  However, I am getting really concerned with Knox and Davis.  It seems like both didn't commit to some catches, tried making body catches, or just got physically outplayed by the defender.  Similar to last year, Davis appears to be hurt and he's a mere shell of himself out there.  It's to the point where he might be better resting, as he doesn't seem to pose a threat at all.  Knox, I have no idea what's going on there.  I get that we are using him to block a lot, but still.  I don't get the contract if this is how we are going to use him.  I know Josh has a lot of faith in him, but from my seats, Knox killed that first drive.  With injuries as they are, and I'm not a trade guy, but I wonder if Beane should be making calls.  I heard someone mention DJ Moore from Carolina as a target and I think he'd be perfect here.  I don't think we can rely on OBJ bouncing back, maintaining his form, and learning the offense quick enough to be a real factor this season.

 

 7- Interior Defensive Line - Was anyone else concerned at the massive holes being opened up down the middle by the Ravens offensive line?  I knew our pass rush up the middle would suffer without Oliver and Phillips, but I figured Settle and Jones would be able to take up space.  There were a few plays were it was like the red sea parted.  We were useless on short yardage rushing situations (again, until when it mattered in the end).  Just a minor concern here, but noticeable.  I can't wait to get Jordan and Ed back.

 

8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw.  Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems.  After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity.  Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible.  I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks.  But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down.  There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing.  Where's the jet sweep?  Where's the toss play?  Where's anything else?  The Chiefs right now are scary on offense because they are finding a rushing attack that you have to respect.  Right now, I don't know if we could run the ball if the defense only had 3 in the box.

 

9 - The Tampa Affect - As we came back in this game, all I could think about was the Bucs game from last year.  The Bills were a shell of their former selves that season and couldn't really get anything going until halftime at the Bucs game.  While we didn't win that game, our offense finally woke up and we were a different team after.  Granted, I thought we'd come out swinging after the Dolphins loss, but I was insta-depressed to see the same crappy execution in the first quarter of this game.  The Ravens seemed faster, hit harder, and actually wanted to be on the field.  We gave up another short field turnover and were down 20-3 early.  However, we have Josh and that man doesn't go down easily.  To see this team pull themselves back together and execute at the level they did...Wow.  It wasn't an explosive performance nor all at once.  It almost felt like the Patriots Superbowl comeback, slow and steady.  Either way, just an amazing job by the defense to mostly keep Lamar contained (Seriously, what was the spy plan?)  Poyer continues to earn more money on that extension.  And many guys made the most of their opportunities; I'm looking at you Hamlin and Shakir.  Hopefuly, this will carry over into our next game, we can get up by 21 so Cook can get more carries and confidence.  I'm sorry, but he's just killing me right now for a 2nd round pick.  He played at Georgia, this shouldn't be too much for him.

 

10 - The Boys - There were moments when I wanted to walk onto the field an punch Edmunds in the face for running into blocks as if he got a bonus from it.  However, those moments weren't nearly as outstanding as the positive plays.  For a team that doesn't blitz, we sent our guys a few times and Edmunds was able to make some great plays in the backfield, solo even.  The blitzing didn't always hit home, and Lamar had way too much time and escape routes sometimes, but you can't argue with the end result.  Edmunds made some great tackles, covered the middle of the field well, and really is turning in some nice consecutive games.  Milano was just a stud.  I don't think he was fully healthy last year, because he was FAST out there.  Milano was a wrecking ball out there at times and should have had another interception on a really bizarre play.  I can't give enough credit to what this defense did, and the linebackers were a huge part of it.

 

11 - Bonus Random thoughts:

• The Ravens played mainly man cover-2 against us in the first half.  In the second, they adjusted to more of a Cover 1 at times.  While they had more guys in the box, that's when we started moving the ball a lot more.  It shouldn't work that way, but it did.  I love being able to see the whole field when at games, just to watch the coverages.  For the Bills, Lamar has proven he likes to throw deep down the middle, and we didn't give him that chance all game.  It was impressive how much we kept them to short field plays
• Holding aside, Von and Groot were non-stop in this game and I expect more 7 sack games once Ed and Jordan are back.  Watching Lamar get swarmed at times felt great.  On Lamar's last interception, it was like a wall of defenders coming at him that only allowed him to back peddle and make a poor throw.
• I was able to see the replay when I got home, but it didn't do this play justice. The sideline throw to Knox in the 4th was absolutely amazing.  Josh was on his back foot and put that ball on a perfect trajectory to Knox.  Seeing it live, my mouth dropped open.  For those there, please tell me you saw the same thing
• Special teams has to get a game ball for all facets of their play.  In wet conditions, they were perfect and a difference maker
• Before you gang up on me, Josh is Josh.  He doesn't need a thought every single week.  He was a little off again on crossing routes, but really pulled it together on the comeback.  Seeing the Ravens fans get quieted by some of Josh's runs was hysterical.  The Bills fans in my section kept saying "Yeah, we got one of them too."
• The conversation of when it's appropriate to stand really hit in this game.  In the lower section, we were the only area standing almost the entire game.  Why?  Because of 5 Bills fans.  A pair of 2 in one row, and a group of 3 in another refused to sit down, making everyone behind them have to stand to see the field.  I was embarrassed by them, as they didn't seem to care about their surroundings at all.  I get big plays and whatnot, but when you are literally the only people standing around you, read the room.

 

Go Bills!

 

The first int the ball was tipped enough that Knox barely got a finger or two on it.

Davis wasnt trying to body catch.  The pass to the sideline his hands were out to catch and the ball went right through them.

Edmunds had a stellar game.  I do recall one run play where he took the wrong path but outside of that played excellent unless I missed something which is possible.

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

 

 

From Baltimore, but quoting Dickins? Surely, you could've found an appropriate Edgar Allen Poe line to quote.

[BillsFanSD]

57 minutes ago, Beast said:

On Poyer’s 2nd INT. Shaq Lawson being mugged.

I was incandescently mad about this for like a half a second yesterday, right up until the point where Poyer came down with the ball.  Then it was like okay cool whatever.

 

I mean, Lawson and the lineman are all by themselves on a little island, 77 has his arm absolutely hooked around him, and it's 100% in full view of the official behind the QB, who is supposed to be looking for this exact thing.  How do you miss this?

Edited October 3, 2022 by BillsFanSD

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

It was the worst of times 

It was the best of times