Bills lost 6 starters from last year's team. 4 aren't on an NFL roster and one is a projected backup

[Toledo Bill]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm surprised at Justin Zimmer. That kid is a beast. You'd think he'd at least be a backup somewhere.

Also, Klein. Not a great player but a good role player/backup.

[eball]

My analysis? The Bills got better at all of those positions. The only one even debatable is Beasley in the slot. 
 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, eball said:

My analysis? The Bills got better at all of those positions. The only one even debatable is Beasley in the slot. 
 

Gabe >> Beasley 

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

My analysis? The Bills got better at all of those positions. The only one even debatable is Beasley in the slot.

 

I think McK and Crowder can replace 693 yards and 1 TD of production. 

[Tanoros]

10 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Gabe >> Beasley 

Gabe plays outside not the slot. McKenzie or Crowder are the Beasley comps

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think McK and Crowder can replace 693 yards and 1 TD of production. 

 

Maybe, but combined, 2 guys had 3 TDs and fewer yards on their teams than the one guy..

[ganesh]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think McK and Crowder can replace 693 yards and 1 TD of production. 

Don't forget Shakir

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Maybe, but combined, 2 guys had 3 TDs and fewer yards on their teams than the one guy..

 

Crowder played in 12 games, Beasley 16.  Their stats are virtually identical on a per-game basis.  Admittedly injury is a concern with Crowder, but that's where comes in.

 

24 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Don't forget Shakir

 

I see him as more of an outside guy.  I think the slot position is covered by the other 2.

[Mr. WEO]

44 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Crowder played in 12 games, Beasley 16.  Their stats are virtually identical on a per-game basis.  Admittedly injury is a concern with Crowder, but that's where comes in.

 

 

I see him as more of an outside guy.  I think the slot position is covered by the other 2.

 

Beasley played injured....

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Levi Wallace is a starter, same with Harry 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Just looking at offense and defense ... Cole Beasley, Star Lotoulelai, Daryl Williams, and Emmanuel Sanders never signed with another team and while there was speculation Star and Sanders may be contemplating retirement, neither has as of yet.

 

That leaves Jerry Hughes starting for the Texans and Levi Wallace fighting for a starting job on the Steelers though there was speculation from Steelers media that Akhello Witherspoon was leading that competition (also referenced here https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/predicting-the-steelers-2-deep-depth-chart-of-the-week-1-defense/ss-AA11pjfF#image=8 )

 

Our depth players that played significant minutes Harrison Phillips will start in Minnesota and Jon Feliciano will start for the Giants and Mitch Trubisky who didn't play significant minutes thankfully is anticipated to start in Pittsburgh to begin the season. Cody Ford is a backup in Arizona, Efe Obada is 3rd string in Washington, while A.J. Klein and Justin Zimmer never found another team. 

 

For a team that is considered incredibly deep (which I agree they are) I find it surprising that only one of our 6 ex starters are expected to start on another team. Perhaps it is a situation where the collection of the parts elevates the individual. Would be interested in others thoughts on this.

 

 

If you want to go into depth players who played, not sure what you call significant snaps but you mention Klein who played 29%, Obada who played 35%, and Zimmer who played 43% in 6 games, so comparable:

Mario Addison (45% of snaps, 17 games) is on the Texans, listed as backing up Hughes on ESPN's depth chart

Vernon Butler (44% of snaps, 10 games) was on Las Vegas, didn't make the 53 man roster

Matt Breida is on NYG (13% of snaps, 9 games). 

 

And of course starting punter Matt Haack is now on the Colts

 

I think both Beasley and Sanders have a "pride point" in their pay.  Neither is interested to sign a contract for vet minimum.  Sanders has said he's still healing a knee injury and has a "standard" where he won't take a job if he can't meet it physically.  Beasley could probably help a team in the slot still, but the combination of John Brown last year (turned out to have nothing left in the tank when the Bills cut him), Beasley's twitterings, and whatever he wants to be paid probably leave him on the beach.

 

AJ Klein may be a similar situation: may not be ready to hang up his cleats, but doesn't want to play for vet minimum just anywhere.  He's 32 with career earnings of $30M and doesn't have to.

 

Zimmer is still rehabbing a significant knee injury.  He apparently wanted privacy about the exact injury, but I believe it was rumored to be an ACL, so since he injured only a few weeks behind Tre White and, as a defensive lineman, he puts a lot of stress on his knees, it's reasonable to expect he's still rehabbing and not in playing condition yet.

 

So

moved on from 7 starters - 3 starting for other teams (included Haack), 4 FA

moved on from 10 depth players (though Ford was a starter for 7 games, Feliciano for 6 games): 7 are on other rosters , 2 are FA, 1 is injured.

 

That's actually significant roster churn for the Bills.

 

I think the Bills have shown a trend to hang onto players until they're on the downhill side of their price/contribution point or just on the downhill side of their playing career.  So it's actually a bit of a surprise to me that so many of our players are rostered.

 

The player that most surprised me as not on a roster is Daryl Williams.  He played 98% snaps in 17 games plus 2 playoffs.  Given the dearth of OL talent around the league, it surprises me that he's not on a roster somewhere

 

 

 

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Beasley played injured....

 

A lot of player do.  But be that as it may, that was still his production last year.  Meanwhile you have to take into account that Crowder's stats were with a struggling rookie.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Just looking at offense and defense ... Cole Beasley, Star Lotoulelai, Daryl Williams, and Emmanuel Sanders never signed with another team and while there was speculation Star and Sanders may be contemplating retirement, neither has as of yet.

 

That leaves Jerry Hughes starting for the Texans and Levi Wallace fighting for a starting job on the Steelers though there was speculation from Steelers media that Akhello Witherspoon was leading that competition (also referenced here https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/predicting-the-steelers-2-deep-depth-chart-of-the-week-1-defense/ss-AA11pjfF#image=8 )

 

Our depth players that played significant minutes Harrison Phillips will start in Minnesota and Jon Feliciano will start for the Giants and Mitch Trubisky who didn't play significant minutes thankfully is anticipated to start in Pittsburgh to begin the season. Cody Ford is a backup in Arizona, Efe Obada is 3rd string in Washington, while A.J. Klein and Justin Zimmer never found another team. 

 

For a team that is considered incredibly deep (which I agree they are) I find it surprising that only one of our 6 ex starters are expected to start on another team. Perhaps it is a situation where the collection of the parts elevates the individual. Would be interested in others thoughts on this.

 

 

 

 

When evaluators say "the Bills have the best roster in football" I think a lot of fans have a misconception that this is like the 1990-1991 again when they had a star studded,  HOF-filled roster that clearly had no peer.

 

Decades of free agency has created A LOT more parity in the NFL.     It's a fine line among the top 15 teams or so now..........especially because there have never been so many talented QB's in the league.

 

If the Bills are in fact the best roster...........a lot of it is timing.   They basically still have all of their top draft picks for the past 6 years under contract and they have spent the 3rd most actual cash in the NFL($275M) this season to fortify the rest of the roster.    They are at the peak of resources right now.   With some big free agent decisions looming someone else is likely to be in that sweet spot next year.........teams like San Diego or Cinci,  who are still early in regimes but very talented,  would seem to be the most likely to have that consensus in coming years.   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Beasley played injured....

And that’s the problem 

 

the injury bug was on him and not letting go. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

When evaluators say "the Bills have the best roster in football" I think a lot of fans have a misconception that this is like the 1990-1991 again when they had a star studded,  HOF-filled roster that clearly had no peer.

 

Decades of free agency has created A LOT more parity in the NFL.     It's a fine line among the top 15 teams or so now..........especially because there have never been so many talented QB's in the league.

 

If the Bills are in fact the best roster...........a lot of it is timing.   They basically still have all of their top draft picks for the past 6 years under contract and they have spent the 3rd most actual cash in the NFL($275M) this season to fortify the rest of the roster.    They are at the peak of resources right now.   With some big free agent decisions looming someone else is likely to be in that sweet spot next year.........teams like San Diego or Cinci,  who are still early in regimes but very talented,  would seem to be the most likely to have that consensus in coming years.   

 

I don't think anyone's saying that.  I think most would gladly trade every position on offense from the 1990-1991 team, save QB, and at least several from the defense. 

[Don Otreply]

I wouldn’t say lost, but more like cut / didn’t re-sign those 6 players, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[CorkScrewHill]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

If you want to go into depth players who played, not sure what you call significant snaps but you mention Klein who played 29%, Obada who played 35%, and Zimmer who played 43% in 6 games, so comparable:

Mario Addison (45% of snaps, 17 games) is on the Texans, listed as backing up Hughes on ESPN's depth chart

Vernon Butler (44% of snaps, 10 games) was on Las Vegas, didn't make the 53 man roster

Matt Breida is on NYG (13% of snaps, 9 games). 

 

And of course starting punter Matt Haack is now on the Colts

 

I think both Beasley and Sanders have a "pride point" in their pay.  Neither is interested to sign a contract for vet minimum.  Sanders has said he's still healing a knee injury and has a "standard" where he won't take a job if he can't meet it physically.  Beasley could probably help a team in the slot still, but the combination of John Brown last year (turned out to have nothing left in the tank when the Bills cut him), Beasley's twitterings, and whatever he wants to be paid probably leave him on the beach.

 

AJ Klein may be a similar situation: may not be ready to hang up his cleats, but doesn't want to play for vet minimum just anywhere.  He's 32 with career earnings of $30M and doesn't have to.

 

Zimmer is still rehabbing a significant knee injury.  He apparently wanted privacy about the exact injury, but I believe it was rumored to be an ACL, so since he injured only a few weeks behind Tre White and, as a defensive lineman, he puts a lot of stress on his knees, it's reasonable to expect he's still rehabbing and not in playing condition yet.

 

So

moved on from 7 starters - 3 starting for other teams (included Haack), 4 FA

moved on from 10 depth players (though Ford was a starter for 7 games, Feliciano for 6 games): 7 are on other rosters , 2 are FA, 1 is injured.

 

That's actually significant roster churn for the Bills.

 

I think the Bills have shown a trend to hang onto players until they're on the downhill side of their price/contribution point or just on the downhill side of their playing career.  So it's actually a bit of a surprise to me that so many of our players are rostered.

 

The player that most surprised me as not on a roster is Daryl Williams.  He played 98% snaps in 17 games plus 2 playoffs.  Given the dearth of OL talent around the league, it surprises me that he's not on a roster somewhere

 

 

 

Good analysis. I did specifically exclude special teams but I still only count 1 starter excluding special teams. Who is the other starter .. Levi is a backup who was competing for the starting gig. I did miss Addison .. he is sticking in a backup role so really no change.

 

Zimmer makes more sense now.. I didn’t realize that he was still trying to work his way back to health.

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Just looking at offense and defense ... Cole Beasley, Star Lotoulelai, Daryl Williams, and Emmanuel Sanders never signed with another team and while there was speculation Star and Sanders may be contemplating retirement, neither has as of yet.

 

That leaves Jerry Hughes starting for the Texans and Levi Wallace fighting for a starting job on the Steelers though there was speculation from Steelers media that Akhello Witherspoon was leading that competition (also referenced here https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/predicting-the-steelers-2-deep-depth-chart-of-the-week-1-defense/ss-AA11pjfF#image=8 )

 

Our depth players that played significant minutes Harrison Phillips will start in Minnesota and Jon Feliciano will start for the Giants and Mitch Trubisky who didn't play significant minutes thankfully is anticipated to start in Pittsburgh to begin the season. Cody Ford is a backup in Arizona, Efe Obada is 3rd string in Washington, while A.J. Klein and Justin Zimmer never found another team. 

 

For a team that is considered incredibly deep (which I agree they are) I find it surprising that only one of our 6 ex starters are expected to start on another team. Perhaps it is a situation where the collection of the parts elevates the individual. Would be interested in others thoughts on this.

 

Wasn’t Mario Addison starting for the Texans or I am completely misremembering?

[Scott7975]

Some of those guys are old and have lost steps.  Thats why the Bills moved on too.

[947]

I have to imagine Beane & Kromer talked about Darryl Williams at some point during preseason or after Mancz got hurt. My guess is that Kromer doesn't think he's a fit.

[CorkScrewHill]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Wasn’t Mario Addison starting for the Texans or I am completely misremembering?

He is backing up Hughes

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

A lot of player do.  But be that as it may, that was still his production last year.  Meanwhile you have to take into account that Crowder's stats were with a struggling rookie.

 

Crowder doesn't.  He has lasted more than 12 games once in the last 4 years.

[BigAl2526]

Darryl Williams is the only one that really puzzles me.  He's a quality lineman with miles remaining on his tread.  Beasley is older, as is Lotulelei, and given their time and experience in the league, may want bigger contracts than teams are willing to give, but certainly they can still play.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

Darryl Williams is the only one that really puzzles me.  He's a quality lineman with miles remaining on his tread.  Beasley is older, as is Lotulelei, and given their time and experience in the league, may want bigger contracts than teams are willing to give, but certainly they can still play.

best I can guess re Williams is that teams see him as a possible post-week 1 guy, where the money isn’t guaranteed. 
 

I honestly wouldn’t mind having him back, though obviously not at tackle. 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Crowder doesn't.  He has lasted more than 12 games once in the last 4 years.

 

Yep, already mentioned that.  He and McK will be fine sharing the role.

 

8 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

Darryl Williams is the only one that really puzzles me.  He's a quality lineman with miles remaining on his tread.  Beasley is older, as is Lotulelei, and given their time and experience in the league, may want bigger contracts than teams are willing to give, but certainly they can still play.

 

He reportedly has bad back issues.

[Chaos]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve often mentioned this: If every player was to play for ten years, and they don’t, each season would see 5.3 new players on the roster. And that doesn’t even factor in free agency, and the other ebbs and flows of roster formation. So it looks to me like the Bills are right on schedule. Nothing to see here. 

Six starters is is out of an expected 2.2 using your odd 10 year metric

[Buffalo Junction]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is more of a function of age. All of those guys were well into the back nine. The Bills were hoping to squeeze the last bit of juice out of them. The same reason that they aren’t signed is why the Bills moved on. There just isn’t enough left in the tank. Darryl Williams is the only that’s a little surprising and I’d imagine that he’s being a little picky as to where he latches on next. I’d imagine that if a bad team, offered vet minimum, and a starting spot, he’d decline. The same for Beasley. Hughes TOOK the low salary on a bad team. Sanders and Star are going to retire unless they receive godfather offers. I wouldn’t read too much into this. It was an opportunity to replace well-compensated, aging vets, with younger, cheaper players with minimal (if any) drop off. 

I could certainly see Sanders coming back down the stretch run if there’s an injury to Diggs or Davis. He’d be cheap, fresh, knows the offense and has a report with Allen. Aside from that I don’t see anyone of those guys latching on unless a team gets really desperate. 

[djp14150]

8 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Just looking at offense and defense ... Cole Beasley, Star Lotoulelai, Daryl Williams, and Emmanuel Sanders never signed with another team and while there was speculation Star and Sanders may be contemplating retirement, neither has as of yet.

 

That leaves Jerry Hughes starting for the Texans and Levi Wallace fighting for a starting job on the Steelers though there was speculation from Steelers media that Akhello Witherspoon was leading that competition (also referenced here https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/predicting-the-steelers-2-deep-depth-chart-of-the-week-1-defense/ss-AA11pjfF#image=8 )

 

Our depth players that played significant minutes Harrison Phillips will start in Minnesota and Jon Feliciano will start for the Giants and Mitch Trubisky who didn't play significant minutes thankfully is anticipated to start in Pittsburgh to begin the season. Cody Ford is a backup in Arizona, Efe Obada is 3rd string in Washington, while A.J. Klein and Justin Zimmer never found another team. 

 

For a team that is considered incredibly deep (which I agree they are) I find it surprising that only one of our 6 ex starters are expected to start on another team. Perhaps it is a situation where the collection of the parts elevates the individual. Would be interested in others thoughts on this.

 

Football, unlike other sports, is very much a system fit league.

 

there have been many examples of all pro level players on one team, goes to another and is crap.

 

3 of the players were older veterans that cost too much.

i would have kept Hughes fir a low 1 yr just fir being a long veteran.  I don’t know if they offered him a low contract and he declined wanting instead to start/ play more somewhere else.

 

next off season there will be some more roster changes including changes at starters.

 

 

 

in this era of 4 yr to free agency you get roster turnover, especial with starters/ regular personnel.

[Freddie's Dead]

Not seeing Zim on a roster surprises me, did he get injured again?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I could certainly see Sanders coming back down the stretch run if there’s an injury to Diggs or Davis. He’d be cheap, fresh, knows the offense and has a report with Allen. Aside from that I don’t see anyone of those guys latching on unless a team gets really desperate. 

 

OBJ...

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Just looking at offense and defense ... Cole Beasley, Star Lotoulelai, Daryl Williams, and Emmanuel Sanders never signed with another team and while there was speculation Star and Sanders may be contemplating retirement, neither has as of yet.

 

That leaves Jerry Hughes starting for the Texans and Levi Wallace fighting for a starting job on the Steelers though there was speculation from Steelers media that Akhello Witherspoon was leading that competition (also referenced here https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/predicting-the-steelers-2-deep-depth-chart-of-the-week-1-defense/ss-AA11pjfF#image=8 )

 

Our depth players that played significant minutes Harrison Phillips will start in Minnesota and Jon Feliciano will start for the Giants and Mitch Trubisky who didn't play significant minutes thankfully is anticipated to start in Pittsburgh to begin the season. Cody Ford is a backup in Arizona, Efe Obada is 3rd string in Washington, while A.J. Klein and Justin Zimmer never found another team. 

 

For a team that is considered incredibly deep (which I agree they are) I find it surprising that only one of our 6 ex starters are expected to start on another team. Perhaps it is a situation where the collection of the parts elevates the individual. Would be interested in others thoughts on this.

 

 

I mean the only reason that looks that way is because 4 of the 5 starters not starting on another team is because they haven't chosen to sign with another team yet.  All 4 of those guys could be signed as a starter for many teams across the NFL right now, but they are either contemplating retirement or just waiting for the right opportunity to lure them back to the field. 

 

I mean you answered your own question in your very first sentence, so not sure how you can remain "surprised" as you put it in your last sentence when you say you find it surprising that only one of our 6 starters that departed are currently starting elsewhere.  

 

Honestly, not really sure what your point is here in the first place given its pretty obvious why its only 1 out of 6 and not some indication of the quality of players.  

[Sierra Foothills]

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Not seeing Zim on a roster surprises me, did he get injured again?

 

Read through the thread. The answer has been posted upstream of you.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Read through the thread. The answer has been posted upstream of you.

 

Well ETF outta me!

[MJS]

I'm not surprised by any of that, really. I guess I expected Wallace to be a 2nd string CB, but there is a reason we have been trying to replace him for so long.

 

I liked Zimmer a lot. He made plays. Hope he gets another shot somewhere. Is he still injured?

 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Gabe >> Beasley 

 

Wouldn't that question be how Saunders compares to Davis and how Beasley compares to McKenzie/Crowder?

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Darryl Williams is the only one that really puzzles me.  He's a quality lineman with miles remaining on his tread.  Beasley is older, as is Lotulelei, and given their time and experience in the league, may want bigger contracts than teams are willing to give, but certainly they can still play.

 

I have to imagine he got some low ball offers given that the state of O-line play in the NFL is what it is. But he likely wants more money than is on the market for him. I think he is waiting for a team to get desperate via O-line injuries to secure a better offer. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Sanders for this year alone would be more valuable than Shakir as the primary backup to Davis. He can still play. That said, Shakir is a nice developmental prospect.

I wish Hughes was DE#3 but the playing time for Epenesa and Basham will be invaluable this year to evaluate if they are long term options for the Bills. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Crowder doesn't.  He has lasted more than 12 games once in the last 4 years.

so it’s a wash.

 

But with less mouth?  

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

so it’s a wash.

 

But with less mouth?  

 

mouthwash

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

OBJ...

Preferably.