Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[JDubya76]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Yeah, I threw it out there because I have no idea how it would work.

Playing that game a step further, if he retires and the browns choose to void his contract for cap flexibility, he’s free? Can he Un-retire immediately?

 

it seems too easy.

Edited June 3, 2022 by JDubya76

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Must suck making $19 million a year...

It’s one year and nothing guaranteed beyond that. He’s what, 26? It does suck if he’s twisting in the wind and no idea what the future holds on his next team. Not saying he’s not partly responsible for this situation - if he played better, he would still be the browns starting QB on a long term deal and reportedly was offered one last year and turned it down. But the browns are also to blame for not having a sound strategy to deal mayfield when they went after Watson. They let him find out they were all in on him via social media, he put out the goodbye letter, Watson knocked cleveland out of his final trade partners, browns panicked and gave him the desperate deal tacking on an extra year of control knowing he likely faced suspension.
 

Now they have a disgruntled  QB with locker room toxicity who wants out but will cost them money to do so let along getting squat in return … and an alleged sexual predator as the face of the franchise who didn’t want to be there in the first place and likely doesn’t suit up anytime soon, who they guaranteed $230 mill.

 

i think if Cleveland could go back in time, they would not have gone back and pursued Watson after he dropped them from consideration. And I think Watson also may regret the situation he’s in as he didn’t want to play in the cold, is in a brutal division, and has to deal with the Baker situation. There is a big chunk of the fan base who are Baker Bros and still thinks he should be the guy. Every piece of news that drips out about Watson makes them louder. Had he gone with Atlanta, Matt Ryan would be gone and he’d be at home and in a bad division. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It’s one year and nothing guaranteed beyond that. He’s what, 26? It does suck if he’s twisting in the wind and no idea what the future holds on his next team. Not saying he’s not partly responsible for this situation - if he played better, he would still be the browns starting QB on a long term deal and reportedly was offered one last year and turned it down. But the browns are also to blame for not having a sound strategy to deal mayfield when they went after Watson. They let him find out they were all in on him via social media, he put out the goodbye letter, Watson knocked cleveland out of his final trade partners, browns panicked and gave him the desperate deal tacking on an extra year of control knowing he likely faced suspension.
 

Now they have a disgruntled  QB with locker room toxicity who wants out but will cost them money to do so let along getting squat I return … and an alleged sexual predator as the face of the franchise who didn’t want to be there in the first place and likely doesn’t suit up anytime soon, who they guaranteed $230 mill.

 

i think if Cleveland could go back in time, they would not have gone back and pursued Watson after he dropped them from consideration. And I think Watson also may regret the situation he’s in as he didn’t want to play in the cold, is in a brutal division, and has to deal with the Baker situation. Had he gone with Atlanta, Matt Ryan would be gone and he’d be at home and in a bad division. 

 

Will have made almost $41 million over the last 5 years. I'm not crying too hard for him.  Would take a person making a relatively good salary of 100K a year 400+ years to earn that. Average salary of 50K, 800+ years.  Dude is set for life no matter what happens to him and has generational wealth.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Will have made almost $41 million over the last 5 years. I'm not crying too hard for him.  Would take a person making a relatively good salary of 100K a year 400+ years to earn that. Average salary of 50K, 800+ years.  Dude is set for life no matter what happens to him and has generational wealth.

I’m not crying for him either as an average person, but can understand why he would want traded as soon as possible. All players regardless of how much they’ve earned are going to have the goal to maximize their future earnings. The nflpa would probably agree and his agent is probably holding the browns feet to the fire as they wade through this ***** storm 

[Captain Hindsight]

25 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

i think if Cleveland could go back in time, they would not have gone back and pursued Watson after he dropped them from consideration. And I think Watson also may regret the situation he’s in as he didn’t want to play in the cold, is in a brutal division, and has to deal with the Baker situation. 

Watson seems to be only about the money in terms of his situation. Cleveland was out until they fully guaranteed the deal. the press conference looked like an arranged marriage. I think Stefanski gets fired this year if they don't do really well in the playoffs. I have my doubts that it will work out, allegations aside, from a football standpoint 

[Big Turk]

31 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

i think if Cleveland could go back in time, they would not have gone back and pursued Watson after he dropped them from consideration. And I think Watson also may regret the situation he’s in as he didn’t want to play in the cold, is in a brutal division, and has to deal with the Baker situation. There is a big chunk of the fan base who are Baker Bros and still thinks he should be the guy. Every piece of news that drips out about Watson makes them louder. Had he gone with Atlanta, Matt Ryan would be gone and he’d be at home and in a bad division. 

 

If Cleveland could go back in time they would have just drafted JA17. Thank goodness they can't.

[HappyDays]

 

 

Ah yes, the foolproof "technically it wasn't illegal" defense. The NFL is sure to buy into this one.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

 

Ah yes, the foolproof "technically it wasn't illegal" defense. The NFL is sure to buy into this one.

It doesn’t matter if it’s “illegal”, to the nfl, in deciding whether to suspend due to violation of personal conduct policy. However he’s being accused of forced “happy endings” - not consensual 

[cle23]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2022/03/25/deshaun-watson-denies-assulting-disrespecting-any-woman

 

That doesn't say he sent a text saying he makes them uncomfortable.  It says that one of the women told another woman that he said it to her.  Not disputing whether it happened or not, but a text is written proof.  That would make the situation more if clear if he had sent it as a message.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It doesn’t matter if it’s “illegal”, to the nfl, in deciding whether to suspend due to violation of personal conduct policy. However he’s being accused of forced “happy endings” - not consensual 

 

Also exposing yourself or forcing your body on an unwilling participant is 100% a crime. Totally ridiculous to chalk that behavior up to making someone "uncomfortable." Maybe this is why the NFL is waiting. Every time Watson or his lawyer talk they dig their hole a little deeper, which make the NFL's job easier.

[cle23]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It doesn’t matter if it’s “illegal”, to the nfl, in deciding whether to suspend due to violation of personal conduct policy. However he’s being accused of forced “happy endings” - not consensual 

 

Right, that's the entire case here.  If they are forced, he is a sexual assaulter and deserves jail time.  If they were consensual at the time, and then later changed to sue, then that's wrong on their end.  That's what needs to be found out.  There are so many moving parts to this whole thing that it's very hard to find the truth in any of it for sure.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also exposing yourself or forcing your body on an unwilling participant is 100% a crime. Totally ridiculous to chalk that behavior up to making someone "uncomfortable." Maybe this is why the NFL is waiting. Every time Watson or his lawyer talk they dig their hole a little deeper, which make the NFL's job easier.

 

Agreed, although the areas they were working on made it very difficult for some exposure not to occur regardless of intent.

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Ah yes, the foolproof "technically it wasn't illegal" defense. The NFL is sure to buy into this one.

Man that's the stupidest thing that attorney has done in this case since he more than doubled the number of massage therapists we knew he'd seen.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agreed, although the areas they were working on made it very difficult for some exposure not to occur regardless of intent.

 

I've gotten dozens of massages in my life and this is 100% false. Especially in the way it's been described by the women.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've gotten dozens of massages in my life and this is 100% false. Especially in the way it's been described by the women.

 

Of your groin area?

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Man that's the stupidest thing that attorney has done in this case since he more than doubled the number of massage therapists we knew he'd seen.

I picture Watson researching attorneys when he was first sued: “Ah! This one gets it. Hired.”

[BuffaloRebound]

pretty amazing this guy got Cleveland to guarantee that amount of money with all this hanging over his head.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've gotten dozens of massages in my life and this is 100% false. Especially in the way it's been described by the women.

 

I have had awakward massages in fairness. But I agree there is a difference between an awkward massage and a sexual assault and while ONE person might construe one for the other.... 23 people doing so does rather suggest that the recipient of the massages was - at best - repeating behaviour that made the situation uncomfortable. 

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yep, that’s why he would need to technically be there but not participate if they agree to that. 

 

 

Yes exactly what the Texans did with Watson last year.

 

Show up, but do not participate and we will have you out of the spot light.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I picture Watson researching attorneys when he was first sued: “Ah! This one gets it. Hired.”

 

To be honest I think both attorneys suck. I wouldn't hire either of them after seeing their conduct in this case. 

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Yes exactly what the Texans did with Watson last year.

 

Show up, but do not participate and we will have you out of the spot light.

 

 

 

And crucially no media availability. 

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have had awakward massages in fairness. But I agree there is a difference between an awkward massage and a sexual assault and while ONE person might construe one for the other.... 23 people doing so does rather suggest that the recipient of the massages was - at best - repeating behaviour that made the situation uncomfortable. 

 

Right, awkward is one thing. If it ends with the masseuse crying something else happened.

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It doesn’t matter if it’s “illegal”, to the nfl, in deciding whether to suspend due to violation of personal conduct policy. However he’s being accused of forced “happy endings” - not consensual 

 

So basically his lawyer has pretty much said without saying that Watson would seek out new Massage Therapists based on their attractiveness to him in the hopes they would be OK with doing more than just giving him a massage. That in and of itself isn't a crime, but forcing them to engage in these acts or doing so without their consent certainly would be. 

 

Otherwise, it makes no sense why a person who is allegedly having these type of massages done to enhance on field performance would continue going to multiple different people, often times without even knowing how skilled they were at performing those type of massages instead of sticking to one person who they knew performed the massages exactly the way he needed them to be performed.

 

Would be like a player who had a personal chef that prepared amazing meals for them go to 25 different chefs to get them to prepare a meal here and there instead of sticking to the same one.  Makes no sense.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[WotAGuy]

Is it still a “happy ending” if no one leaves happy?

[H2o]

This just keeps getting worse and worse for Watson imo. After sitting on the stand talking about how he wasn't trying to get anything out of the women because he "had a girlfriend", now his lawyer drops this gem. This sexual predator should never take another snap in the NFL, but I hope they give him at least a 2 year ban. The Browns have to be the dumbest organization in all of professional sports. 

[Warcodered]

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I picture Watson researching attorneys when he was first sued: “Ah! This one gets it. Hired.”

Looking up the number of massage therapists he's got me to stumble on this article I think I saw it before, but it ain't great for him either with basically a woman outside the 22 accusing him and another who referred him to her texting about having gotten a lot of the same complaints about him.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10003368-deshaun-watsons-alleged-misconduct-with-massage-therapists-detailed-in-new-si-report

Quote

SI also spoke to a veteran massage therapist who referred Watson to other massage therapists. She spoke under the condition of anonymity but was referred to as Susan in the article.

Another massage therapist, who had previously spoken to SI but has not filed a lawsuit, said she massaged Watson in the fall of 2019 after Watson was referred to her by Susan. The woman, referred to as Mary, said during the session he "purposely removed the towel covering him, told her she could touch and move his exposed penis and began thrusting his pelvis into the air after developing an erection."

Susan told SI Mary was the only massage therapist who reported an issue with Watson to her, but Mary produced a text conversation with Susan in which Susan wrote "whether the creepy stuff is his intention or not, he does it every time." Susan also wrote to Mary that "only 1 therapist hasn’t complained."

It was confirmed that the texts came from Susan's phone number, and Susan later told SI she was trying to be supportive of Mary in the text conversation and was referring to Watson requesting to use a small towel or washcloth to cover himself rather than a full-sheet draping.

Mary said Watson reached out to her again on Instagram after their session, but when she insisted he use a full-sheet draping before booking him again, he decided against booking.

The NFL players who spoke to SI anonymously all said they always have full-sheet drapings during their massage sessions and go out of their way to avoid exposing their genitals.

 

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

 

Would be like a player who had a personal chef that prepared amazing meals for them go to 25 different chefs to get them to prepare a meal here and there instead of sticking to the same one.  Makes no sense.

You mean like a “happy meal”?

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

Playing that game a step further, if he retires and the browns choose to void his contract for cap flexibility, he’s free? Can he Un-retire immediately?

 

it seems too easy.

 

I’m sure the Browns would be happy to void Baker’s contract today if they could.  But why would Baker give up $18.9M?

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

[section122]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agreed, although the areas they were working on made it very difficult for some exposure not to occur regardless of intent.

 

I've stayed completely away from this topic but I feel the need to correct this.  I was a licensed massage therapist for more than 10 years in NYS.  We are trained on proper draping techniques.  The groin is not an area that is massaged.  If you are referring to the inner thigh then yes it can be massaged however the draping is done very tightly under the leg so as to prevent exposure.  If Watson is choosing to use a small towel, most massage therapists would decline as exposure would certainly be a risk.  I do not know a single therapist that gives clients that option or really any option of draping.  We have our own supplies including sheets for draping.

 

Any exposure immediately puts us at risk of the client ruining our reputation or filing a complaint with the NYS office of professions.  Licenses can and have been revoked for those situations.

 

I really like your chef analogy in another post, it highlights the biggest red flag for me.  Sports massage is a very specific type of massage.  Swedish massage is what most people think of when they think of massage.  A professional athlete would/should have a specific therapist they like to work with.  Most therapists have regular clients as once you find a good therapist, people choose to continue to work with them.  On top of that, the Texans likely have therapists on staff if he really was seeking treatment.

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Ah yes, the foolproof "technically it wasn't illegal" defense. The NFL is sure to buy into this one.

Watson badly needs a new lawyer.

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Watson badly needs a new lawyer.

What a redneck.

 

[wppete]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

identical!!!!! It’s incredible!

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[wppete]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

WoW 24 women now! This douche bag is done! 

[Mango]

Tangentially since Bauer gets brought up. Basically the MLB basically never suspended anybody for domestic violence until 2016.

 

There were two incidents before then. In 1997 Will Cordero beat the crap out of his wife and resulted in a restraining order. 10 games
 

Julio Mateo beat she short out of his wife and sent her to the hospital. 8 games.

 

I think the move by the MLB to start cracking down on it forces the league to be pretty severe here. In the past they could just say “Hey, yeah 5 games isn’t a ton, but have you seen baseball? They haven’t suspended anybody….ever!”

 

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Can somebody smarter than fill me in on whether or not a criminal case can or is likely to be reopened? 
 

Everything I have read was that a grand jury decided not to pursue like 10 cases. And a couple other one offs in other counties were declined by DA’s. But that’s not 24 incidents that we’re seeing in civil court? 

[YoloinOhio]

42 minutes ago, Mango said:

Tangentially since Bauer gets brought up. Basically the MLB basically never suspended anybody for domestic violence until 2016.

 

There were two incidents before then. In 1997 Will Cordero beat the crap out of his wife and resulted in a restraining order. 10 games
 

Julio Mateo beat she short out of his wife and sent her to the hospital. 8 games.

 

I think the move by the MLB to start cracking down on it forces the league to be pretty severe here. In the past they could just say “Hey, yeah 5 games isn’t a ton, but have you seen baseball? They haven’t suspended anybody….ever!”

 

Can somebody smarter than fill me in on whether or not a criminal case can or is likely to be reopened? 
 

Everything I have read was that a grand jury decided not to pursue like 10 cases. And a couple other one offs in other counties were declined by DA’s. But that’s not 24 incidents that we’re seeing in civil court? 

The investigation on the 10 criminal complaints is closed so my understanding is that a new one would need to be filed in order for that to be re-introduced (ie possibility of incarceration)

 

A Harris County, TX grand jury declined to indict and charge Watson after he invoked his Fifth Amendment privilege not to self-incriminate. A 2nd  Texas grand jury, in Brazoria County, also declined to indict (Nine charges were filed in Harris County and one in Brazoria County because of the location of the alleged crimes)

 

not much is known about these criminal cases and the grand jury due to Texas law 

Quote

Any strict examination of the lack of charges against Watson is hampered by a mountain of unknowns, attributable to tight-lipped officials and Texas’ stringent grand jury secrecy laws.

Not all of the 22 women who filed civil lawsuits against Watson also filed police reports seeking criminal charges. Furthermore, an open letter from one of the women that published this week said not all of the women who filed criminal complaints also filed civil lawsuits.

Houston police have released heavily-redacted versions of reports related to Watson that inked out the victims’ names and mostly included nondescript, one-sentence summaries of the allegations, the New York Times reported.

Only one of the 10 women who filed criminal complaints against Watson has publicly identified herself.

What evidence the grand jury heard, who testified before them, what those witnesses said and how the grand jury prosecutor presented the case will also likely remain secret because Texas law makes it illegal for anyone to disclose “anything transpiring before the grand jury.”A grand juror, prosecutor or court employee who spills grand jury business can face up to 30 days in jail, and a witness who reports what happened inside the chambers can be jailed for as long as six months, according to Texas laws.

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2022/04/why-wasnt-deshaun-watson-charged-what-prosecutors-needed-to-file-charges.html

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[TBBills]

These Browns rookies better watch out, someone gonna need to give Watson a massage.

 

[CapeBreton]

7 hours ago, section122 said:

 

I've stayed completely away from this topic but I feel the need to correct this.  I was a licensed massage therapist for more than 10 years in NYS.  We are trained on proper draping techniques.  The groin is not an area that is massaged.  If you are referring to the inner thigh then yes it can be massaged however the draping is done very tightly under the leg so as to prevent exposure.  If Watson is choosing to use a small towel, most massage therapists would decline as exposure would certainly be a risk.  I do not know a single therapist that gives clients that option or really any option of draping.  We have our own supplies including sheets for draping.

 

Any exposure immediately puts us at risk of the client ruining our reputation or filing a complaint with the NYS office of professions.  Licenses can and have been revoked for those situations.

 

I really like your chef analogy in another post, it highlights the biggest red flag for me.  Sports massage is a very specific type of massage.  Swedish massage is what most people think of when they think of massage.  A professional athlete would/should have a specific therapist they like to work with.  Most therapists have regular clients as once you find a good therapist, people choose to continue to work with them.  On top of that, the Texans likely have therapists on staff if he really was seeking treatment.

I believe that some of the women giving the massages were not actually licensed though, I’m not sure how someone can not be licensed and give massages. But the fact that an NFL qb is going to unlicensed massage therapist is pretty shady stuff. So he’s basically saying that since they weren’t licensed, the same rules don’t apply and everything was consensual.

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, TBBills said:

These Browns rookies better watch out, someone gonna need to give Watson a massage.

 

Cleveland has adapted some new protocols for Watson's massages.

 

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Watson badly needs a new lawyer.

he needs some jail time.