BillsFanForever19 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 IMO Zack Moss' current role on this team is a Training Camp battle with Duke Johnson to be the #3 RB on this team. He had two seasons of opportunities and their utilizing him as a healthy scratch down the stretch and their signing of J.D. McKissic (even though it fell through) shows they've lost faith in him to be the #2 RB. Right now he's battling for the roster spot held by Matt Breida last season and T.J. Yeldon before it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Here's hoping Moss becomes what the team envisioned him to be. Personally, I remember being rather unhappy with the pick, preferring others on my "BIG BOARD" over him. But what do I know.... My stand on this is that we need a starting RB who will instill fear in opposing defenses. To date, Moss isn't that guy, but I also wonder if Moss would do better with a more run-heavy scheme and with an upgrade to our OL. As a team on the brink of a superbowl run..... I'm not comfortable with wait and see. If we can snag Kenneth Walker III, it improves our CHANCES of having a dominant run game. Just imagine having a dominant RB. It would give defensive coordinators fits with Allen's ability to get the ball downfield. Stack the box? Um.... Thank you very much! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Yeah ... pretty much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Moss is a fine depth piece (still with upside). But it seems they're looking for a more dynamic weapon in the backfield. That's not ZM, so in that sense, yes he's being overlooked right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma Pecoraro Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Bills bax are mediocrities. Draft WRs and OL. After tc sign a dinosaur off the discard heap that can beat a stream of molasses in a foot race then move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 I’ll feel a lot more comfortable when the Bills release him and bring him back on a 1 year contract. That means player is solid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 44 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: The former all-pro who played with the 49ers...Joe Staley? Is that his name? heck yeah! good for him. TE Univ seemed to help Knox put it all together last season. thats the kind of stuff the props pro's do. how huge would that be for this team if he took another big step. players bodies make the biggest jump the off season after rookie year. 6' 8" leaves a lot of room to add muscle. same with the other rookie Rousseau, i expect a big jump outta him. hes tall and lean. plenty of room to pack on muscle. big jump going from college cafeteria food to nfl nutrition plan with trainers setting your diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) On 4/10/2022 at 7:27 PM, Dablitzkrieg said: His vision is poor imo. That is really needed as a RB lol Unfortunately, it's this. He's not big enough or fast enough to compensate for his lack of field awareness and vision. He plays with toughness, which I love, and is great in pass pro, but he's 5'9'' 205 ... so he can't just run into guys and move them. He runs a 4.65, so he's not out-running anyone and he's a single-cut runner. He's great at breaking tackles for his size, but he's not elusive, so it's important to have GREAT vision, patience, and balance. He doesn't have that. So ... what part of his game is elite, that makes up for all the other missing attributes? Will the lightbulb go off and all of a sudden he has great vision and patience? I just don't see it, but then again, I think the O-line makes the RB so if our O-line clears lanes, any RB including Moss will look like they "took a step." Edit -- I was curious to see if this was always an issue with him and apparently it has been for a while (2020): https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/zack-moss/VTjtEWlX0s Edited April 12, 2022 by Rigotz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I was very disappointed with Moss last season. After his rookie year I really thought he had a chance at becoming the starter in 2021. That obviously did not happen. I am always willing to give a player another chance. Who knows maybe Kromer's O-Line system will make a huge difference. I don't think Moss will surpass Singletary as the starter, but if he can be a good RB2, I would consider that a huge positive. So, let's see what happens when we get to training camp, and then who will be the inactive RB behind Taiwan Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I find it interesting that we're talking about Moss' vision. I think that he's never had it so why would he now? His main college attributes were his straight forward, bruising style that really needs a bit more of a hole from his O-linemen to have any effect. If he can't get to level2, he's toast. This is the reason I thought the draft pick was wasted on him. BUT I still hope to eat crow on those words... It's not like he's a first round draft bust, so I'm good with his role as a backup RB. Let's not be too hard on him. He never was meant to be a feature back right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I think he could find a role in the offense mostly based on his pass catching. That will only be increasingly important. I’m not sure, but I would hope he’s a decent pass blocker with his size. Combine those with a hopeful improvement as a short yardage / goaline back and he might stick around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I gave up on him after a few 3rd/4th and 1 scenarios where he couldn't pick up a yard. I thought that was going to be his specialty and by the end of the year I wanted Singeltary as our short yardage guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 14 hours ago, Logic said: Says the guy who made three separate replies to a topic he has no interest in discussing...on a football message board....at 11am on a Monday. Sayonara! ... you do realize that's Bill Pucko, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/10/2022 at 8:35 PM, GoBills808 said: Singletary has a better YPA than Ezekiel Elliott. And not a single 1,000 yard season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 11 hours ago, CapeBreton said: I see a free rusher (Adrian Phillips). that will likely chase you down if you try and run outside Spncer Brown and at best you get a one yard gain. Maybe even a loss if Brown can't sustain his block. Or you put your head down and try to get a three or four yard gain inside hoping Morse will sustain his block (he doesn't). If you want to argue he doesn't have the greatest vision this is a poor example to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williams Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: And not a single 1,000 yard season. Pass first offense. He only got 188 attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 51 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: And not a single 1,000 yard season. But that’s kind of the point with the offense that we’ve been running there’s very little opportunity for running back to get thousand yard seasons that’s why they have to be effective when they do get their carries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I’ve seen a lot of people still liking Moss. I haven’t liked him since day 1. He’s a JAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I was thinking of red zone failures and I think it was the Titans game, could have been the Bucs. Moss had an easy TD which would have won the game for us. He ran past the seam and straight into were the blockers were moving the defense. I cannot think of any plays he made in the red zone. As a runner he lacks vision and football smarts. Blocking is average at best and he did nothing as a receiver out of the backfield. The Bills will draft a RB and Moss will have to really improve to make the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 What does he do well? Hes not fast, his vision is poor, blocking is average. Bills should be looking to improve that position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: I was thinking of red zone failures and I think it was the Titans game, could have been the Bucs. Moss had an easy TD which would have won the game for us. He ran past the seam and straight into were the blockers were moving the defense. I cannot think of any plays he made in the red zone. As a runner he lacks vision and football smarts. Blocking is average at best and he did nothing as a receiver out of the backfield. The Bills will draft a RB and Moss will have to really improve to make the team. 12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: What does he do well? Hes not fast, his vision is poor, blocking is average. Bills should be looking to improve that position I don't care for Moss and he looks like a bust but I thought he was known for being a very good pass blocker? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 It's funny because I thought Moss played well late into his rookie season -- and actually made an impact in the playoffs. When he got hurt, it seemed like the offense took a step back with Singletary (most obviously in the AFC Championship Game against KC). That is why expectations were modestly high on Moss headed into 2021. As it turns out, from day one (when Moss was a healthy scratch against Pittsburgh), he was a major disappointment. He does some things well -- especially blocking and catching the ball out of the backfield. However, breaking tackles and fighting for extra yards used to be his calling card (wanting defenders to "make a business decision" when tackling him). Too often in short yardage and redzone situations, he failed to get the yards needed. He seemed slow at times to read his blocks -- and sometimes outright missed open holes. He may not be any slower than Singletary -- but especially late in the season Devin seemed much more determined and decisive when making his cuts than Moss did. So in answer to your question, especially given that he is still playing on a 3rd round rookie contract, I have not completely given up on him. He and Devin combined should prove to be serviceable. However, with defenses totally dedicated to stopping Josh, you would think that Moss would be more productive when given the opportunity. Imagine what the offense could do with an elite "bell cow" RB legitimately taking some of the pressure off the passing game (and opening up play-action) -- and converting on those crucial 3rd and short situations to keep drives alive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainwashedBillsFan Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Yes you are the only one who still believes in Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 2 hours ago, CapeBreton said: I don't care for Moss and he looks like a bust but I thought he was known for being a very good pass blocker? I believe this is a common misconception. It is, in fact, the smaller of the two who is really good at pass blocking (Singletary). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 12 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Pass first offense. He only got 188 attempts. 12 hours ago, John from Riverside said: But that’s kind of the point with the offense that we’ve been running there’s very little opportunity for running back to get thousand yard seasons that’s why they have to be effective when they do get their carries A lack of balance will become problematic. The Bills need to be able to lean on the running game from time to time, particularly if Josh is going to run less and I'm not sold that Devin is a 200-250 carry kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazeduck Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 On 4/10/2022 at 4:26 PM, Logic said: It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here). A few things stick out to me: 1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021. Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again? 2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed? I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football? If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it? It's funny, when Moss was drafted last year, I was VERY vocal about how meh he was, and I was told repeatedly that I didn't know what I was talking about. I might even go as far as to say that I was the most anti-Moss poster on the board. I HATED it (still do). That said, people now are treating him as though he has Henry Ruggs levels of value, as though we'd literally accept a used dustmop for him and run laughing all the way to the bank... While I absolutely do not think he's anything close to resembling a franchise RB, people are absolutely way too low on him -- both as a Bill and as a football player in general. He played hurt last season and does have some potential as a short yardage thumper. Would I take a 5th round pick for him? Probably, yeah. But would I cut him? Not unless I truly thought he was the worst player on the roster -- and we'd have at least a couple moves to make before that were the case... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I don't think Moss was even good in his rookie year. I'm hoping he's not on the roster next year because we've either traded him (hopefully) or cut him after a TC battle with Singletary, Johnson and whatever rookie(s) we draft. He's Devin Singletary except slower, more injury prone, and with poorer vision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Transplant, agreed on you’re take. I was hopeful when drafted and thought he might act like more of a battering ram to Motor’s wiggle. He looked to regress in year 2, and Singletary improved late in the year. I still see Beane going after in no particular order a CB, WR, G, a punter in the 7th, and try for a steal mid rounds for a RB. Whenever I think we’ll never get a lock at RB, I have to remind myself Diggs, and Milano were taken in the 5th. Both have outplayed their rookie draft status, and who’s say Beane may swing and hit this time. I’d never pay big $ for a free agent, and most teams these days don’t even typically extend a lot of RBs. We definitely would benefit from another RB in the room as Gilliam is really a FB/hybrid TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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