Pounding the table for Christian Watson at 25

[TheBrownBear]

Honestly, looks like a workout warrior bust to me.  Wouldn't use anything earlier than a 3rd rounder on him.

[YoloinOhio]

Random but I can’t stand the draft season cliche phrases “pound the table”, “sprint to the podium”, etc…  only 24 more days!

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Random but I can’t stand the draft season cliche phrases “pound the table”, “sprint to the podium”, etc…  only 24 more days!

are we allowed to "backup the Brinks truck" during free agency at least?

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Random but I can’t stand the draft season cliche phrases “pound the table”, “sprint to the podium”, etc…  only 24 more days!

I am pretty sure i have pounded a few tables, but never sprinted to a podium. Actually sprinting would likely snap my achilles like a rubber band at this point

[LeGOATski]

Just now, longtimebillsfan said:

With Josh's arm, Watson could be our version of Gronk.

That's an odd comparison 

[Putin]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The people downplaying the need at corner will be the FIRST ones next season bitching about how we cant stop the pass......book it

Bean must have something on the back burner I just don’t believe that he would rely solely on the draft to get that fixed , unless it’s a big trade up in the draft?

[whorlnut]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This is how I see it.  You have to take into consideration: Diggs’ future contract.  Davis’s future contract.  Crowder on a 1 year cheap deal. Knox a FA next year.  It’s about keeping the cabinets stocked with playmakers and building around 17.  It’s not always about what’s best for the upcoming season.  

This. Continuing to give Allen cheap vets on one year deals isn’t the way to build this offense. At some point, a conscious effort needs to be made in getting guys that will be here for a while.

 

You’re correct…we don’t know what will happen with Diggs. I could see that getting a little ugly if they don’t figure out a raise for him. And if they do that, then they might not be able to pay Davis. I think it will come down to one or the other. We need another stud on the cheap that will be affordable for 4-5 years. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

are we allowed to "backup the Brinks truck" during free agency at least?

Never did that either. Hollywood makes being a Brinks driver seem super exciting and dangerous when in reality its probably just eating donuts and delivering cash to attractive bank tellers who majored in English or speech pathology and have to settle for the bank job for now. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Vickveto said:

Calvin Johnson

Andre Johnson

Vincent Jackson 

Matt Jones

 

 

I think the comp I've settled on is Vincent Jackson. 

 

Jackson was basically unrecruited..........went to Northern Colorado because they were the only one to offer a scholarship........somehow excelled as a punt and kick returner despite his size........had the size and speed but very little refinement to his game entering the NFL.........entered the league at 22 as opposed to the 20-21 year olds who were 4-5 star prospects..........and had a long career of big production as primarily a deep threat.  

 

Watson is a little lighter and considerably faster than Jackson but there are a lot of similarities.    Seems like a smart, well spoken guy like Jackson was as well.    Jackson ended up being a second round steal but his rise in the draft process was very similar to what we are seeing with Watson........early on Jackson seemed like a late round flyer kinda' guy and rose all the way up to second round.

 

I was a little concerned with Watson's narrow frame..........I was thinking more along the lines of Marquez Valdes-Scantling.........but I think he's going to be much better than the less than physical MVS.    Although MVS has gotten paid too.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Georgie said:

I like him but think CB is a bigger need. If he lasts until Bills 2nd round pick, I would be all over that

Good thing drafts aren’t for need. They’re for BPA.

[billybrew1]

I’m with the poster. We’ll NEVER get a chance to get talent like that in the draft again so long as Josh Allen is on this team again. I think it’s a no brainer to take him. The corners aren’t worth it at 25, no way, no how…..

He’ll look fantastic in a Bills uniform and will replace Diggs as Allen’s all-time #1….

[H2o]

I'm telling you all, this guy wouldn't be BPA until the 3rd or 4th Round. Beane and McDermott aren't taking a guy, in the 1st Round especially for God's sake, who only put up three 100 yard games in his ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER against FCS competition. He's nothing more than a tall kid who's fast in spandex. 

[mathja]

The thing that jumps out in his highlight videos is how quickly he turns and runs up field after making a catch. That transition is quicker than most receivers I’ve watched.

[whorlnut]

15 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Good thing drafts aren’t for need. They’re for BPA.

Boom.  100%. This idea of needing to make sure we draft a corner in one cause it’s our “biggest need” is outrageous to me. Beane has never operated like that and sure as heck isnt starting now. 

2 minutes ago, mathja said:

The thing that jumps out in his highlight videos is how quickly he turns and runs up field after making a catch. That transition is quicker than most receivers I’ve watched.

It’s funny you say that, because that’s one of the biggest knocks on Chris Olave. He’s great at making plays but doesn’t really create after the catch. Sound like someone we just released?

Edited April 4, 2022 by whorlnut

[SWATeam]

I’m a fan.  Seems to have an incredible ability to separate deep.  Would be deadly with Josh.

[Shake_My_Head]

4 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

There's a difference between weaving through DBs after the catch and breaking off sharp in-breaking routes and comebacks (necessary for >50% of an effective route tree).

That may be true for a slot WR (aka Beasley-type) or freaks like Tyreek Hill, where they win with short area quickness.  But it's less so for 6'4" outside guys like Watson (or the GOAT analog for this kind of wideout, Moss, or Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans, Brandon Marshall, etc. ) who win with physical mis-match ability, IMO.

 

I'm not saying Watson is a finished product, or would even be good in year one.  But he strikes me as a very high ceiling "ten year" kind of guy with the intangibles and intelligence to be a terrific WR with a QB like Josh.       

[billybrew1]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The people downplaying the need at corner will be the FIRST ones next season bitching about how we cant stop the pass......book it

Not me…. Sign a vet, get a couple corners later…..The Bills know corners. Where to find them, how to train them and get them ready for the beginning of the season. If the Bills take a corner in round one I’ll be happy because the Bills think he’s worth it, if they don’t I’ll be happier with Christian Watson and a couple corners later on.

My big wish for this draft is the we get a corner, a OG and a WR by the end of round three (along with the vet corner).

[longtimebillsfan]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

That's an odd comparison 

Big target with good hands?

 

Yea that is really a stretch comparing to Gronk.

 

Good post!

 

 

[NY Nole]

Movin the Chains show on Sirius NFL Radio had Bills taking Watson in their most recent first-round Mock Draft (2.0) last Friday. Jim Miller (former QB for Bears and others) made the pick for the Bills and said it came down to him or Dotson. Said he thought about CB — as Booth was still on their board - but he was scared off about the injury. I was not aware Booth is coming off injury. 

 

IMO — wouldn’t be disappointed with Watson in the first, but I also think that OL is very much in the cards along with CB. I’m hoping a tackle can be had early — as the Bills have no swing tackle — unless you think Tommy Doyle takes a big leap.

[LEBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Never heard of Matt Jones but the other 3 were pretty good!

Matt Jones was a QB at Arkansas that changed positions to WR for the draft. Went first round to the Jags and busted.

[Vickveto]

2 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Matt Jones was a QB at Arkansas that changed positions to WR for the draft. Went first round to the Jags and busted.

This is a completely different scenario Christian Watson was the best receiver at the senior bowl. Matt Jones never played wide receiver prior to being drafted.

[LEBills]

Just now, Vickveto said:

This is a completely different scenario Christian Watson was the best receiver at the senior bowl. Matt Jones never played wide receiver prior to being drafted.

I wasn’t comparing, just letting him know who Matt Jones was.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

The 4.28 speed is very Tyreek like

[Vickveto]

3 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

The 4.28 speed is very Tyreek like

I believe it was 4.36 official. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

6 minutes ago, Vickveto said:

I believe it was 4.36 official. 

4 28 on the combine video.

 

Either way at 6'4 running a 4.36 is freak like.

 

The Vincent Jackson comparison is accurate. 

 

Line him up at the X or Z and let him go. Don't waste that speed at the slot. We could really stretch the field.

 

He may be able to challenge Josh's arm arrogance.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Big target with good hands?

 

Yea that is really a stretch comparing to Gronk.

 

Good post!

 

 

There are a bunch of big target WRs with good hands and you chose a Gronk. It's odd. Don't take it so personal.

[Vickveto]

12 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

4 28 on the combine video.

 

Either way at 6'4 running a 4.36 is freak like.

 

The Vincent Jackson comparison is accurate. 

 

Line him up at the X or Z and let him go. Don't waste that speed at the slot. We could really stretch the field.

 

He may be able to challenge Josh's arm arrogance.

No one has really argued or debated he is the most athletic wr. I’m hearing a lot of josh Allen pre draft. Small school and production. I see special.

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He was DK Metcalf-like size/speed athlete who was a star QB in the SEC but didn't have much in the "want to" department.  

Eh Matt Jones had some issues with too much "want to," if you know what I mean... 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Richard Noggin

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I just don’t understand the receiver at 25 crowd. I mean, are you drafting a guy who will push Davis down the depth chart? Or Crowder out of the lineup? That’s fine, but if not you are drafting a part time player. Like why? 

 

I still think Davis is a perfect #3 outside WR, which is fine. He hasn't won consistently enough against #2 CBs to think he can just step into that role this year uncontested. Obviously the Chiefs game was incredible for him but Mike Hughes also had one of the worst individual performances I've seen from a CB. I love Davis in the specialty role we've used him in. Get him favorable matchups along the sideline and down the field and put the ball in his catch radius. But you ideally want 2 better WRs in front of him on the depth chart that take enough attention to give him those favorable matchups. Plus we have no outside WR depth at all behind Diggs and Davis. For a WR centric offense that makes WR one of the biggest needs on the team. Ideally I want an explosive WR like Watson or Williams or Pierce to complement the skill sets we already have.

[Motor26]

I don’t know, great athlete but why didn’t he dominate the FCS like someone with his size and speed should have? 

[MasterStrategist]

25 minutes ago, Vickveto said:

No one has really argued or debated he is the most athletic wr. I’m hearing a lot of josh Allen pre draft. Small school and production. I see special.

Does he have versatility to play slot and outside?  To me he doesn't, which means we relegate Diggs to slot anytime we would have him, Diggs and Davis in 3 wr sets.  

 

Not a fan of this.

[MasterStrategist]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is partly why I hated the Emmanuel Sanders deal. We should have known by now is Gabe a legit #2 receiver. I still think he can be but we don't know because we pissed about for half a season with a geriatric running about out there and Gabe on the bench. 

 

The worry I have is if Gabe isn't up to it as a full time workload or if he or Stef go down we have Jake Kumerow playing outside receiver. That is not something I ever wish to see. 

Interesting you say this, then say Dotson is more of a slot Wr type.  Isn't that an added bonus?  Watson ran very few routes from the slot, I don't think he's a fit there.  Which would essentially give us 2 strictly outside guys (Watson and Davis).  Forcing us to play Diggs in the slot, if we put Watson, Davis and Diggs in 3 wr sets.  Not sure how that adds value, then burns a 1st round pick.

[Rigotz]

3 hours ago, Shake_My_Head said:

That may be true for a slot WR (aka Beasley-type) or freaks like Tyreek Hill, where they win with short area quickness.  But it's less so for 6'4" outside guys like Watson (or the GOAT analog for this kind of wideout, Moss, or Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans, Brandon Marshall, etc. ) who win with physical mis-match ability, IMO.

 

I'm not saying Watson is a finished product, or would even be good in year one.  But he strikes me as a very high ceiling "ten year" kind of guy with the intangibles and intelligence to be a terrific WR with a QB like Josh.       

Dude… you guys need to stop with this Randy Moss stuff because these guys are nothing alike.

 

Randy Moss was an INCREDIBLE route runner and was successful because he DID have the traits Watson lacks. 
 

Watch Moss’s routes and you’ll see the difference:

 

 

[Bookie Man]

Not at 25 for me. 

[Vickveto]

24 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Dude… you guys need to stop with this Randy Moss stuff because these guys are nothing alike.

 

Randy Moss was an INCREDIBLE route runner and was successful because he DID have the traits Watson lacks. 
 

Watch Moss’s routes and you’ll see the difference:

 

 

Chris Carter was a brilliant route runner and that was Randy moss’s mentor. I do not believe Randy moss was a brilliant  route runner coming out of Marshall. When I watch the tapes that’s not what I see. I also do not believe Christian Watson will be Randy moss I like the Vincent Jackson comparison.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Vickveto

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Dude… you guys need to stop with this Randy Moss stuff because these guys are nothing alike.

 

Randy Moss was an INCREDIBLE route runner and was successful because he DID have the traits Watson lacks. 
 

Watch Moss’s routes and you’ll see the difference:

 

 

 

 

Yeah Moss and Megatron are the two most "talented" WR's in NFL history..........if Moss had his head right and was committed to being great he would own all receiving records.    The numbers he put up he did so without being fully invested in being great.........it came easy for him.    

 

There is A LOT of distance between being a star WR in the NFL and being of the talent level of those kind of greats.

 

 

[Shake_My_Head]

30 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Dude… you guys need to stop with this Randy Moss stuff because these guys are nothing alike.

 

You're right--he's not Moss, not by a long shot.    But for a 6'4" wideout, he's impressive in both his atleticism, intelligence and physical mis-match skills set...to the point he CAN be considered a high ceiling first round-caliber WR, which is all I'm saying.   

 

Is he polished?  Not yet.   Has he got some things to work on?  Yes.     Does he have plus speed and movement skills for a guy that big, good hands and intangibles?  Yes.    Would he make a great Bill?   IMO, yes.

[Vickveto]

47 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Does he have versatility to play slot and outside?  To me he doesn't, which means we relegate Diggs to slot anytime we would have him, Diggs and Davis in 3 wr sets.  

 

Not a fan of this.

Crowder and McKenzie will primarily work the slot. In my opinion he gets a lot of separation on his crosses and slants. He’s a home run deep threat no matter where you line him up at .Watson will run gadget for us. Kick off and punt return. He is a real home run threat ever time he touches the field. Please single him.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Their defensive system is built around executing a complex zone scheme...........they aren't "hiding" a CB2 in zone.........that's what they play.

 

And even if they invest the equivalent of a $20M+ chip into a CB in round 1........that CB is still going to mostly be doing the things that Levi and Dane have been asked to do.

 

That's what they have played because Levi Wallace left them no choice. And after White went down they had to play that style on both sides of the field which changed how we were able to play defense. If losing one true #1 CB can limit the defensive scheme, it stands to reason that adding anorher true #1 CB could enhance the scheme. Two CBs that can effectively be placed on islands changes how Hyde and Poyer have to play. It changes how much ground Edmunds and Milano have to cover. It's crazy to argue that another top tier CB would be wasted in this defense.

 

Plus Hyde and Poyer won't be around forever. Eventually we won't be able to hide a middling CB2 with stellar safety play. One day not too far into the future we might need to rely on the opposite. And who knows how White will recover or if he'll re-tear his ACL? You're the one that always says seemingly filled positions can become needs in the blink of an eye. Why is CB any different?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's what they have played because Levi Wallace left them no choice. And after White went down they had to play that style on both sides of the field which changed how we were able to play defense. If losing one true #1 CB can limit the defensive scheme, it stands to reason that adding anorher true #1 CB could enhance the scheme. Two CBs that can effectively be placed on islands changes how Hyde and Poyer have to play. It changes how much ground Edmunds and Milano have to cover. It's crazy to argue that another top tier CB would be wasted in this defense.

 

Plus Hyde and Poyer won't be around forever. Eventually we won't be able to hide a middling CB2 with stellar safety play. One day not too far into the future we might need to rely on the opposite. And who knows how White will recover or if he'll re-tear his ACL? You're the one that always says seemingly filled positions can become needs in the blink of an eye. Why is CB any different?

 

 

Playing on islands is not how the Bills CB's operate.........including Tre White.   

 

White isn't great because he can run in lock step with the best WR's in the league.........he's not a shut down man coverage CB........he excels because he is instinctive and aware and physical and has outstanding ball skills...........traits that are showcased in the Bills zone system.

 

He's a modern day version of Rhonde Barber(former 3rd rounder and many time All Pro Tampa-2 zone CB)..........not a lockdown, "island" man CB.

 

You don't need to draft those traits in round 1.   Maybe it's unrealistic to keep using undrafteds and 6th rounders and still keep getting top ranked pass defense's like they've done so far...........but that doesn't mean you have to go to round 1 and overdraft the position.